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(Some FCC)   Starlink WiFi router approved by FCC, soon it can pollute your view of the night sky in your own home   (fcc.report) divider line
    More: Cool, Test Report, Term, Transmitter, Applicant Leszek M Langiewicz, End-users, Operational definition, low power transmitters, External photos  
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794 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jul 2020 at 8:20 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-14 10:08:54 PM  
When starlink is available in my area I am getting it. Satellite service with 1 Gig speed.
 
2020-07-14 10:19:34 PM  
When Starlink has an IPO, I'm getting (some of) it. 1gig satellite service will be akin to printing money
 
2020-07-14 10:22:54 PM  
Gonna really depend on cost and latency
 
2020-07-14 10:27:44 PM  

Gubbo: Gonna really depend on cost and latency


The cost of around a hundred USD or more a month and being half as far away will make latency less problematic. I have "good" satellite service and it sucks so anything for around the same cost and way better speed I am trying.
 
2020-07-14 10:48:02 PM  

Gubbo: Gonna really depend on cost and latency


Betting service may be available by billing address. I had a sky sat box and card that traveled along with one that got RTL.
 
2020-07-15 12:25:18 AM  

eurotrader: When starlink is available in my area I am getting it. Satellite service with 1 Gig speed.


THIS.  Here in rural Alaska, all we have is DSL.  I cannot WAIT for SkyLink to come online.
 
2020-07-15 1:03:46 AM  

eurotrader: Gubbo: Gonna really depend on cost and latency

The cost of around a hundred USD or more a month and being half as far away will make latency less problematic. I have "good" satellite service and it sucks so anything for around the same cost and way better speed I am trying.


This. I had satellite before.  Absolute crap.

I can't wait.
 
2020-07-15 6:45:07 AM  
I have fiber and its faster and cheaper.. I'm sure some will use this but I don't see how it makes sense for most people.

Unless you live in a hell state with only one option then sure... Free yourself.
 
2020-07-15 7:42:27 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I have fiber and its faster and cheaper.. I'm sure some will use this but I don't see how it makes sense for most people.

Unless you live in a hell state with only one option then sure... Free yourself.


If you have more than one option, you don't know how blessed you are.  You have cheaper, faster internet than most.

Most people in the United States have one or zero options for broadband.
 
2020-07-15 8:27:49 AM  
I'll take 2, please.
 
2020-07-15 8:28:52 AM  
"Operation of this device is restricted to indoor use only. "

/must be a very low earth orbit
 
2020-07-15 8:29:56 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I have fiber and its faster and cheaper.. I'm sure some will use this but I don't see how it makes sense for most people.

Unless you live in a hell state with only one option then sure... Free yourself.


Ive got fiber because I live in the suburbs of a city but I can drive 15 minutes to rural areas where their only option is crappy Frontier service. Fiber is great but only in the areas where the population is dense enough to justify it.
 
2020-07-15 8:33:38 AM  
Starlink is at the bottom of my list of things that pollute my view of the night sky (though I'm not doing astrophotography). I could drive a few hours into the middle of nowhere and see more with a pair of binoculars than I can here with a decent telescope.
 
2020-07-15 8:43:54 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: "Operation of this device is restricted to indoor use only. "

/must be a very low earth orbit


Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal.  It's just a branded WiFi router.
 
2020-07-15 8:48:41 AM  

EvilEgg: Tr0mBoNe: I have fiber and its faster and cheaper.. I'm sure some will use this but I don't see how it makes sense for most people.

Unless you live in a hell state with only one option then sure... Free yourself.

If you have more than one option, you don't know how blessed you are.  You have cheaper, faster internet than most.

Most people in the United States have one or zero options for broadband.


Just to be pedantic, most of the PEOPLE in the US do have a choice between at least two providers.  Most of the TERRITORY of the US is locked up by one provider.

(though it's usually a choice between getting farked in the left nostril or the right nostril)
 
2020-07-15 8:50:39 AM  
Starlink Vocal Band?! They suck!
 
hej
2020-07-15 8:51:23 AM  
Yes, that's what will "pollute" my view of the night sky.  Not all the lighting around the city.
 
2020-07-15 9:11:43 AM  

eurotrader: When starlink is available in my area I am getting it. Satellite service with 1 Gig speed.


You farking wish
 
2020-07-15 9:34:52 AM  
All we have is DSL. 0.5 Mbit up is very limiting, you can't do backups to cloud or anything. I'm also using an ATT data sim in a router for one machine which is faster but if I use too much data they notice me, and that deal isn't going to last. I'd get this and replace both of those. Also, maybe my provider will suddenly become super interested in bringing fiber out to our area after years of neglect when everyone abandons them.
 
2020-07-15 11:01:25 AM  
Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.
 
2020-07-15 11:22:54 AM  

falkone32: Tr0mBoNe: I have fiber and its faster and cheaper.. I'm sure some will use this but I don't see how it makes sense for most people.

Unless you live in a hell state with only one option then sure... Free yourself.

Ive got fiber because I live in the suburbs of a city but I can drive 15 minutes to rural areas where their only option is crappy Frontier service. Fiber is great but only in the areas where the population is dense enough to justify it.


Fiber is dead in the US.  The ROI will never again justify fiber installation,  even in the most dense of cities.
 
2020-07-15 11:25:19 AM  

madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.


Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.


2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.
 
2020-07-15 11:37:54 AM  

Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.


I found this post very interesting, so I headed over to the Starlink website to see if I could learn more - has anyone noticed that they have a customer sign-in on the website?  Exciting stuff.
 
2020-07-15 11:50:43 AM  
There'll be a lot of them to train my AI laser cannon on.
 
2020-07-15 11:59:49 AM  
In satellite communications, the Ka band allows higher bandwidth communication. It was first used in the experimental ACTS Gigabit Satellite Network, and is currently used in the Inmarsat I-5 system[6] and the SpaceX Starlink system
In satellite communications, the Ka band allows higher bandwidth communication. It was first used in the experimental ACTS Gigabit Satellite Network, and is currently used in the Inmarsat I-5 system[6] and the SpaceX Starlink system[7]

The band is called Ka, short for "K-above" because it is the upper part of the original NATO K band, which was split into three bands because of the presence of the atmospheric water vapor resonance peak at 22.24 GHz
 
2020-07-15 12:08:35 PM  
I'm currently teleworking from my in-law's farm, which used to have atrocious satellite internet from Xplornet. Now we use Xplornet's radio-tower service, which is better and is good enough to telework, but still isn't great.

I've signed up to be a Starlink beta tester, though don't know if they'll test the service in our region (rural Manitoba).

That said, I also do some mild astrophotography (haven't done any since Musk's satellites were launched) and hope Starlink's satellites don't screw up the night sky too much.
 
2020-07-15 12:11:56 PM  

GoodHomer: I'm currently teleworking from my in-law's farm, which used to have atrocious satellite internet from Xplornet. Now we use Xplornet's radio-tower service, which is better and is good enough to telework, but still isn't great.

I've signed up to be a Starlink beta tester, though don't know if they'll test the service in our region (rural Manitoba).

That said, I also do some mild astrophotography (haven't done any since Musk's satellites were launched) and hope Starlink's satellites don't screw up the night sky too much.


I have had a neighbor that saw the starlink sats and called me thinking they were either aliens or  meteors  getting ready to crash. Saw 7 of them in a row and it looked kinda cool.
 
2020-07-15 12:25:33 PM  

brokendownyota: Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.

I found this post very interesting, so I headed over to the Starlink website to see if I could learn more - has anyone noticed that they have a customer sign-in on the website?  Exciting stuff.


Yeah, there's only marketing there. Don't know if you get more from signing in...
 
2020-07-15 12:27:00 PM  

Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.


Thanks. I assumed that they struck gold with some prime spectrum.

Won't there be problems with mm wavelengths? They have to go through the entire atmosphere, contend with weather, and get through the roof and maybe a couple floors (aren't most home wiring areas in the basement?).

Won't these require an external antenna on the roof to function reliably?
 
2020-07-15 12:30:23 PM  

Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.


I like that it's noted that  was Ka wassplit into three bands because of the presence of the atmospheric water vapor resonance peak at 22.24 GHz.

We' re talking about microwaves here... That's a very specifi  form of "interference," right?

That frequency excites the water vapor, in other words it cooks it.
 
2020-07-15 12:45:12 PM  

madgonad: Won't there be problems with mm wavelengths? They have to go through the entire atmosphere, contend with weather, and get through the roof and maybe a couple floors (aren't most home wiring areas in the basement?).

Won't these require an external antenna on the roof to function reliably?


They will; the satellite terminal/antenna is an outdoor device.  The WiFi router is an indoor device.  There's a cable between them.  Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/space​x​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

Millimeter wave signals will be fine with the atmosphere (there are certain frequencies that get absorbed by atmospheric gasses, but you just work around those), but rain loss is a significant factor.  That's one of the benefits of having so many satellites in the sky at once and an antenna system that can connect to several of them at the same time -- it can use whichever birds are behind the smallest amount of water.  I imagine severe weather will degrade service to some extent, though.
 
2020-07-15 2:26:46 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: brokendownyota: Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.

I found this post very interesting, so I headed over to the Starlink website to see if I could learn more - has anyone noticed that they have a customer sign-in on the website?  Exciting stuff.

Yeah, there's only marketing there. Don't know if you get more from signing in...


They are taking applications for beta testers. First you just have them your zip code. Yesterday they emailed asking me follow a link and give them my full address. Hopefully they are interested in performance data on the central coast.

I've been looking to move back out to the boonies, if I can get their service just how far out just got a lot farther.
 
2020-07-15 4:17:33 PM  

Professor Science: madgonad: Won't there be problems with mm wavelengths? They have to go through the entire atmosphere, contend with weather, and get through the roof and maybe a couple floors (aren't most home wiring areas in the basement?).

Won't these require an external antenna on the roof to function reliably?

They will; the satellite terminal/antenna is an outdoor device.  The WiFi router is an indoor device.  There's a cable between them.  Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

Millimeter wave signals will be fine with the atmosphere (there are certain frequencies that get absorbed by atmospheric gasses, but you just work around those), but rain loss is a significant factor.  That's one of the benefits of having so many satellites in the sky at once and an antenna system that can connect to several of them at the same time -- it can use whichever birds are behind the smallest amount of water.  I imagine severe weather will degrade service to some extent, though.


Good info, however I don't think they are going to have nearly enough satellites up there to mimic modern 'cellular' wireless in which your phone is in contact with multiple towers.
Hmmm, they have an operational altitude of 340 miles, starts doing math of the kerning required within the sphere....looks up how many SpaceX is planning.... Holy crap, Musk wants to put 30k of the damn things up there?!?!?
 
2020-07-15 4:21:58 PM  

Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7


I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?
 
2020-07-15 5:09:45 PM  

madgonad: Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?


The antenna has motors?  I thought it was supposed to be phased array, and not need to be steered?
 
2020-07-15 5:14:30 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: madgonad: Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?

The antenna has motors?  I thought it was supposed to be phased array, and not need to be steered?


If it is a phased array, maybe they don't steer the entire antenna but move the elements around inside that UFO dish to change the pattern to direct it at different satellites. It would not have to physically move much to have a big change at those frequencies.
 
2020-07-15 5:24:07 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: madgonad: Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?

The antenna has motors?  I thought it was supposed to be phased array, and not need to be steered?


The link to business insider has further links that describe how it works. It is an odd antenna, but yes the silly thing tracks areas of the sky. No alignment necessary. Great news for the RV set.
 
2020-07-15 5:33:19 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: madgonad: Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?

The antenna has motors?  I thought it was supposed to be phased array, and not need to be steered?

If it is a phased array, maybe they don't steer the entire antenna but move the elements around inside that UFO dish to change the pattern to direct it at different satellites. It would not have to physically move much to have a big change at those frequencies.


I think the motors are just for choosing an optimal orientation for the site, and it won't be moving to track individual satellites.  They may have just figured that a couple motors are cheaper than competent human labor, or that the best orientation for a site may change as the constellation gets built out.
 
2020-07-15 5:46:37 PM  

Professor Science: KarmicDisaster: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: madgonad: Professor Science: Somebody poking around at their website found some not-yet-live content that hints at the details: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex​-starlink-wesbite-user-terminal-satell​ite-dish-pictures-beta-test-2020-7

I'm a bit shocked at the antenna having motors AND being POE. Can the antenna motors and receiving sensor run on 15 watts?

The antenna has motors?  I thought it was supposed to be phased array, and not need to be steered?

If it is a phased array, maybe they don't steer the entire antenna but move the elements around inside that UFO dish to change the pattern to direct it at different satellites. It would not have to physically move much to have a big change at those frequencies.

I think the motors are just for choosing an optimal orientation for the site, and it won't be moving to track individual satellites.  They may have just figured that a couple motors are cheaper than competent human labor, or that the best orientation for a site may change as the constellation gets built out.


My thought was that there would be 'bands' of satellite orbits so your antenna would aim at a section of sky which would always have 2-3 in it. That would allow the constellations to grow as 'stripes'.
 
2020-07-16 2:33:31 PM  

brokendownyota: Professor Science: madgonad: Well, they have 100mhz in the 2.5ghz range and 80mhz in the 5ghz range.

5G LTE is getting about 20Mb/s per mhz, so each satellite could support up to 3.6Gb/s. You need 15Mb/s to support a 4K stream, so each satellite can 'service' 240 customers.

Yeah, that isn't going to work.

Professor Science: Yeah, this isn't the satellite ground terminal. It's just a branded WiFi router.

2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are for WiFi.  The satellites use Ku (12-18 GHz) and Ka (26.5-40 GHz) bands, with V band (40-75 GHz) coming later.

I found this post very interesting, so I headed over to the Starlink website to see if I could learn more - has anyone noticed that they have a customer sign-in on the website?  Exciting stuff.


I got an email the other day after they launched asking me for my exact address for the beta testing. Initial beta testing signup was just email and zip code.
 
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