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(MLive.com)   Welp, we've got a full COVID-mask-argument/police violence crossover   (mlive.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Lansing, Michigan, 43-year-old Grand Ledge man, DELTA TWP, Eaton County, Michigan, use of this site, Internet privacy, English-language films, police officer  
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4837 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2020 at 1:30 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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TWX [TotalFark]
2020-07-14 11:34:46 AM  
Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.
 
2020-07-14 12:03:39 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-14 1:35:57 PM  

TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.


I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.
 
2020-07-14 1:38:33 PM  
This is a clear-cut case of suicide by cop.
 
2020-07-14 1:38:35 PM  
A 43-year-old Grand Ledge man is dead after being shot by a police officer early Tuesday following an altercation at a Dimondale Quality Dairy store.

He's only a couple years younger than me. Damn. This hits close to home.
 
2020-07-14 1:39:34 PM  
Fark needs a  thinning-out-the-herd tag.
 
2020-07-14 1:40:25 PM  
🤣

I don't even know who to root for.
🤣
 
2020-07-14 1:40:53 PM  
This is why you should shoot maskless people on-sight.  They are already signaling their intent to harm you.
 
2020-07-14 1:42:04 PM  

waxbeans: 🤣

I don't even know who to root for.
🤣


Root for the cops and see how it pans out?
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2020-07-14 1:42:36 PM  
Evidently he really hated masks
 
2020-07-14 1:43:06 PM  

Glorious Golden Ass: This is why you should shoot maskless people on-sight.  They are already signaling their intent to harm you.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-14 1:44:37 PM  

Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.


He is playing the long game and being some-what reasonable in a mask plus police violence 1, 2 combo thread?
 
2020-07-14 1:47:36 PM  
So they brought a knife to a gun fight? Gotta blame this one on Darwin.
 
2020-07-14 1:48:06 PM  
I'm glad he's dead.
 
2020-07-14 1:49:39 PM  

TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.


Yep. Seems like the officer backed away from the man approaching with a knife. Plus the guy died in surgery, which implies she didn't pump him full of rounds. Sounds like 1 or 2 in the center to stop him.

Given the current climate though, best policy might be a full suspension and investigation by a third party.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2020-07-14 1:50:00 PM  

Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.


Not intentionally.

I believe in proportional force.  If a person has already committed a violent act then they should expect a violent response may be deemed necessary.

If a person has committed a violent act with a deadly weapon, then they should expect a response to include introducing another deadly weapon.

If a person has committed a violent act with a deadly weapon and used that weapon to provide serious injury to another, and then brandishes that deadly weapon, then they should expect a response with a deadly weapon that could justify the responder to use their own deadly weapon.

In the context of modern protests against police violence, it appears that in many cases the police have skipped right to the second or third response, even against nonviolent persons.  The police have escalated violence far beyond anything the person they've responded-to has done.  This practice has been condoned for so long that it's been normalized, and I expect that many officers will need to be removed from the police force because of an inability to learn how to respond otherwise.
 
2020-07-14 1:51:35 PM  

We Ate the Necco Wafers: A 43-year-old Grand Ledge man is dead after being shot by a police officer early Tuesday following an altercation at a Dimondale Quality Dairy store.

He's only a couple years younger than me. Damn. This hits close to home.


Does it? Have you stabbed a few senior citizens recently?
 
2020-07-14 1:54:09 PM  

DORMAMU: Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.

He is playing the long game and being some-what reasonable in a mask plus police violence 1, 2 combo thread?


There are instances when its acceptable for the police to shoot people.

The problem is that number is nowhere near the number of people shot by police
 
2020-07-14 2:01:02 PM  
Yeah, I'm no fan of police shooting people and really do think patrol officers need to be limited to just tasers and mace, but in this case the guy had already stabbed someone for telling him to wear a mask and he was approaching a female officer with the presumed same knife in his hand. He was going to stab her. I'd rather she'd tased his dumb ass, but I'm not going to say the shooting wasn't justified either.

So I don't even care about the cops in this situation. The shooting isn't the issue. The issue is that this jackass was so set on not wearing a mask that he was willing to stab an old man and a cop over it.

This is so farked up.
 
2020-07-14 2:02:12 PM  

Natalie Portmanteau: DORMAMU: Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.

He is playing the long game and being some-what reasonable in a mask plus police violence 1, 2 combo thread?

There are instances when its acceptable for the police to shoot people.

The problem is that number is nowhere near the number of people shot by police


No argument from me.

I was attempting (poorly) to play on the usual politics tab hyperbole that usually comes around in the two thread types.  It appears I missed the mark as the whackadoodle factors seem to have at least nullified each other... at least until the whiskey starts wearing off
 
2020-07-14 2:05:40 PM  
He wanted it, and the universe complied with his wishes. In this case I feel worse for the cop who had to remove his dumb ass from the planet. Just this case.
 
2020-07-14 2:06:28 PM  

BigNumber12: We Ate the Necco Wafers: A 43-year-old Grand Ledge man is dead after being shot by a police officer early Tuesday following an altercation at a Dimondale Quality Dairy store.

He's only a couple years younger than me. Damn. This hits close to home.

Does it? Have you stabbed a few senior citizens recently?


pbrca2eymsp3yutqp1vic4px-wpengine.netdna-ssl.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-14 2:16:35 PM  
One of the lessons I am learning to accept is that it is pointless to try and reason/argue with people who refuse to wear a mask. It is also becoming increasingly dangerous to do so. There may be cases where the maskless have been persuaded to put on a mask, but they appear to be few and far between.

The onus for mask enforcement is on people who are working, for the most part, in low wage jobs.That is wrong.

It's kind of like seeing an 18 wheeler doing 85 mph in the left lane on the interstate. Don't try and get in front of them to slow them down. Move away, and hope that the cops pull them over. If not, try not to smile when you see the rollover on the side of the road a few miles ahead.
 
2020-07-14 2:23:08 PM  
Given the less lethal effectiveness shown on protesters wouldnt a rubber bullet, mace or a tasing be the first step here ? 

The guy who was stabbed didnt die. I expect officers to react with proportion to the threat...  even a ball bat wins against a knife.

They had time to back away... means they had time to deploy other weapons. 

Yes I have high expectations of the police. Yes I will be disappointed.
 
2020-07-14 2:26:37 PM  
Dimondale is about as quiet an area as you can find in Michigan. The deceased was a State of Michigan employee as there are many offices and department of transportation buildings nearby. You can't blame the neighborhood on this one. You can't just throw out an executive order on wearing a face mask and tell the businesses it's their job to enforce it or be fined. We are 2 days into this order and I can see a whole lot of businesses not risking the safety of employees or shoppers to enforce it. People are nuts to begin with and this will bring it out tenfold.
 
2020-07-14 2:29:56 PM  

TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.


The salient point being that the officer backed up to increase the physical distance while the armed subject continued to advance toward the officer. This reinforces the officer's belief that the subject intended to cause death or serious bodily injury.
 
2020-07-14 2:30:38 PM  
Should have used tazers, other non lethal means, but it's hard to summon up much sympathy for plague rats.
UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete | Firsthand | CBC
Youtube 9mzPj_IaMzY
 
2020-07-14 2:31:44 PM  
[happycatgood.jpg]
 
2020-07-14 2:32:06 PM  
So, for the purposes of statistics, is this a Covid related death?

Like, even if he didn't have it, could Covid be considered a comorbidity because he wouldnt have been shot if Covid didn't exist.
 
2020-07-14 2:32:25 PM  
"I ain't wearin' no mask!" is the stupidest farking hill to die on ever. WTF is wrong with people?
 
2020-07-14 2:39:27 PM  
♫ ♪ Crackpipes... in my anus... make me happy...
Roachclips... up my nose can make me cryyyy...♪ ♫
 
2020-07-14 2:40:07 PM  
Wrong thread. <lol>
 
2020-07-14 2:40:47 PM  
"Welp, we've got a full Covid-mask-argument/police violence crossover"
media3.s-nbcnews.comView Full Size

                                                   No, we have a MARTYR!!!
 
2020-07-14 2:42:32 PM  

patrick767: "I ain't wearin' no mask!" is the stupidest farking hill to die on ever. WTF is wrong with people?


They are Republicans.
 
2020-07-14 2:47:08 PM  

DORMAMU: Natalie Portmanteau: DORMAMU: Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.

He is playing the long game and being some-what reasonable in a mask plus police violence 1, 2 combo thread?

There are instances when its acceptable for the police to shoot people.

The problem is that number is nowhere near the number of people shot by police

No argument from me.

I was attempting (poorly) to play on the usual politics tab hyperbole that usually comes around in the two thread types.  It appears I missed the mark as the whackadoodle factors seem to have at least nullified each other... at least until the whiskey starts wearing off


Maybe something like a "police shoot man protesting wearing of mask" would get everybody riled up
 
2020-07-14 2:48:12 PM  

We Ate the Necco Wafers: A 43-year-old Grand Ledge man is dead after being shot by a police officer early Tuesday following an altercation at a Dimondale Quality Dairy store.

He's only a couple years younger than me. Damn. This hits close to home.


Strange connection to make. When I hear about somebody dying of natural causes/illness, who is younger than me, yes, I think of the age of the person and it makes me wonder... when somebody goes batshiat over being called out for not wearing a mask, stabbing an old man, and committing suicide by cop (legitimately), I think, what an asshole.

I really don't understand why you connect so well with assholes who are within a few years of your age.
 
2020-07-14 2:50:04 PM  
SBC
 
2020-07-14 2:50:52 PM  
Eaton County, I'm not surprised.  Charlotte would have been my first choice though but Grand Ledge is a close second.
 
2020-07-14 2:55:09 PM  

apathy2673: "Welp, we've got a full Covid-mask-argument/police violence crossover"
[media3.s-nbcnews.com image 760x380]
                                             No, we have a MARTYR!!!


It was only a matter of time until the police shot someone for not wearing a mask.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2020-07-14 2:58:27 PM  

DORMAMU: Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.

He is playing the long game and being some-what reasonable in a mask plus police violence 1, 2 combo thread?


Not really.  There are circumstances when police shootings are justified.  They're just much rarer than the actual number of times police shoot people.

So one of the cases around here from the last five years, a man jumps the counter at a pharmacy, claims to the pharmacy staff to be armed, and steals a bunch of prescription narcotics.  After he leaves the premises, police are called, police are given a description of the suspect, and are notified that the suspect claimed to be armed.  Suspect is seen by a responding officer, and due to the alleys etc a foot-chase ensues.  The suspect trips and ends up on the ground, and when the officer catches up with him, the suspect then starts fighting with the officer, who draws his weapon and fires.  Suspect is found to not be bearing any weapons.

Is the shooting justified?

Part of me says yes, part of me says no.  The suspect had arguably committed an armed robbery, as in he claimed to be armed.  He himself etablished that he was packing as a lie, but as far as the officer knew, beause of the suspect's lie, he was armed.  On the other hand the officer didn't observe the suspect with a weapon, but there again, weapons can be concealed.

So what do you think?
 
2020-07-14 3:02:37 PM  
Can we PLEASE now get a Michigan tag? What's it gonna take?!?!


/Michigander
 
2020-07-14 3:06:44 PM  

TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.



i find in the ideal world, we assume other means of dealing with knives than guns.
If a cop can put innocent bystanders, well out of knife danger range, in gun danger range for fear of their own personal safety from the knife, then  we're al better off dealing with any not gun problems on our own.Calling the cops only increases all the within gun shot range citizens' risk of death by cop gun, which is way worse than their danger was  from the knife wielder.If cop, I do expect more of you, i do expect you explicitly choose to take on dangers perosnally, in order to protect EVERYONE ELSE from those dangers, AND the DANGER OF YOURSELF WITH A GUN too.So cop wiht gun in hand for any reason other than, A GUN WAS FOR SURE FIRED AND WE CAN SEE IT, then no that gun is wrong to be in the hand every time.
 
2020-07-14 3:07:38 PM  

Flarn: Can we PLEASE now get a Michigan tag? What's it gonna take?!?!


/Michigander


Oh come on. Michigan is nowhere near Florida.

/yet.
 
2020-07-14 3:08:25 PM  
Any defund the police inspired rioting/looting going on? No...guess Sean was a white dude.
 
2020-07-14 3:15:15 PM  

geggam: Given the less lethal effectiveness shown on protesters wouldnt a rubber bullet, mace or a tasing be the first step here ? 

The guy who was stabbed didnt die. I expect officers to react with proportion to the threat...  even a ball bat wins against a knife.

They had time to back away... means they had time to deploy other weapons. 

Yes I have high expectations of the police. Yes I will be disappointed.


Eh, I'm pretty liberal, opposed to the militarization of police, etc...but this sounds like a justified shooting.  Yes, a taser would've been preferable, but they're not 100% effective.

/nothing of value appears to have been lost, except for some of the old man's blood
//and a round of ammunition
///bill his estate for both
 
2020-07-14 3:25:35 PM  

PunGent: geggam: Given the less lethal effectiveness shown on protesters wouldnt a rubber bullet, mace or a tasing be the first step here ? 

The guy who was stabbed didnt die. I expect officers to react with proportion to the threat...  even a ball bat wins against a knife.

They had time to back away... means they had time to deploy other weapons. 

Yes I have high expectations of the police. Yes I will be disappointed.

Eh, I'm pretty liberal, opposed to the militarization of police, etc...but this sounds like a justified shooting.  Yes, a taser would've been preferable, but they're not 100% effective.

/nothing of value appears to have been lost, except for some of the old man's blood
//and a round of ammunition
///bill his estate for both


I am done being forgiving. 

If a cop isnt actively being shot at and uses his gun then he needs to have a without pay suspension. 

A gun brandished... no shooting until you are shot at... true self defense. 

Enough of the fear for my life pussies
 
2020-07-14 4:07:33 PM  

geggam: Given the less lethal effectiveness shown on protesters wouldnt a rubber bullet, mace or a tasing be the first step here ? 

The guy who was stabbed didnt die. I expect officers to react with proportion to the threat...  even a ball bat wins against a knife.

They had time to back away... means they had time to deploy other weapons. 

Yes I have high expectations of the police. Yes I will be disappointed.


Know how i know you have never faced a knife in a fight of any kind?

/keep thinking a knife isnt deadly and a bat can stop it.....
//a bat might...but chances are good you will not come out uncut/stabbed and changes are good you wont come out.
///if the blade is towards the wielder and not you...be really farkin afraid and be prepared to bleed
 
2020-07-14 4:26:56 PM  

zippyZRX: Know how i know you have never faced a knife in a fight of any kind


Know how I know you dont know wtf you are talking about ?
 
2020-07-14 4:27:40 PM  

Kit Fister: Flarn: Can we PLEASE now get a Michigan tag? What's it gonna take?!?!


/Michigander

Oh come on. Michigan is nowhere near Florida.

/yet.


Michiganders have completely lost their minds about Covid.  Completely. They are either storming the capital, having a party on the lake, not wearing a mask or cowering in their basements.
 
2020-07-14 4:47:34 PM  

TWX: Claude Ballse: TWX: Shooting-victim already stabbed someone, thus demonstrating intent and willingness?

In an ideal world, a third-party would investigate the situation, the officer would have desk-duty for a few days during the investigation, and in this particular case, my guess is the resulting medical report from the stabbing victim would make the shooting justified in th eyes of that third-party investigating body.  The officer would receive counseling and would go back on patrol.

I dunno how you're doing it, but this feels like a troll.

Not intentionally.

I believe in proportional force.  If a person has already committed a violent act then they should expect a violent response may be deemed necessary.

If a person has committed a violent act with a deadly weapon, then they should expect a response to include introducing another deadly weapon.

If a person has committed a violent act with a deadly weapon and used that weapon to provide serious injury to another, and then brandishes that deadly weapon, then they should expect a response with a deadly weapon that could justify the responder to use their own deadly weapon.

In the context of modern protests against police violence, it appears that in many cases the police have skipped right to the second or third response, even against nonviolent persons.  The police have escalated violence far beyond anything the person they've responded-to has done.  This practice has been condoned for so long that it's been normalized, and I expect that many officers will need to be removed from the police force because of an inability to learn how to respond otherwise.


Well first off, yes, the officer is correct to address the suspect as violent, being they're wanted for a violent crime.  No, to thinking the shooting is justified just because the suspect committed a violent crime.  That fact is not enough to shoot someone.  Being if the suspect is unarmed, then treat them as such.  Big reason, what if they have the wrong person?  They would be executing an innocent person.  Next, they don't have to have committed a violent crime to get shot.  Just the fact that he was moving towards an officer with a deadly weapon, and not stopping is a threat, a violent threat.  That is enough to shoot.  There's no reason to tip toe around this, he was moving towards her with a deadly weapon.  She met force with force, because if he got close enough, she might not have the time to stop him.  I don't need to know the color of anyone involved, the facts seem very clear here.  Could be different if his weapon was less than lethal.

I still recall a similar shooting a few blocks from my house.  Domestic disturbance call, woman walked towards responding officers, carrying a kitchen knife.  She refused to stop, so she got shot.  Her daughter tried screaming the police were wrong, but no one gave her any mind on the subject.  I get some people are having a bad day, and make mistakes.  At the same time, that's the definition of life going sideways.  Bad day, make bad choices, life ends.
 
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