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(The New York Times)   Small-business owners are now just giving up trying to survive in these coronavirus times   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Small business, small businesses, Mr. Larkin, Business, small law firms, local businesses, government officials, last Friday of June  
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917 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Jul 2020 at 8:14 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-14 8:18:57 PM  
* Small business owners in the United States, subby. Or, if you prefer, in shiathole countries.
 
2020-07-14 8:20:45 PM  

quo vadimus: * Small business owners in the United States, subby. Or, if you prefer, in shiathole countries.


Thanks for pointing that out Captain Obvious.
 
2020-07-14 8:22:09 PM  
You were warned that this would happen, Republicans.

You may as well give up yourselves and deliberately nosedive the economy before November so you can start blaming Biden before he's even inaugurated.
 
2020-07-14 8:24:38 PM  
Is it because of the paywalls?
 
2020-07-14 8:30:54 PM  
I'm watching my tenants, a small restaurant and a small retail store, struggle with this. I have no idea how they will be able to survive to the end of this, nor how California's economy avoids being a shambles even if there IS an end.
 
2020-07-14 8:31:07 PM  
Meh. I was closed for eight weeks. I had enough cash reserves to pay my mortgage, practice loan, and bills. I purposely underpay myself and keep plenty of cash around for emergencies. I applied for the PPP loan, and started paying employees again.
You run tight margins, and you'll get burned when emergencies arise. If DeSantis decides to shut Florida down again (which won't happen), I'll be ready. Yeah, I get I'm lucky, but I play it extremely safe with my money as well.
 
2020-07-14 8:31:12 PM  
Dying small businesses can take solace in the fact Wells Fargo, Lobbyists ,the Catholic Church and State Political parties got all that Small Business money.
 
2020-07-14 8:38:17 PM  
The problem was that the PPP was PAYCHECK protection. It did nothing to keep business afloat, just kept workers on the books so that a) employment numbers stayed higher and b) they didn't have to pay workers the bonus unemployment money.

It was never designed to save businesses. Rent moratoriums for commercial property would do more good. Lots of policies would be more effective.
 
2020-07-14 8:49:09 PM  

jjorsett: I'm watching my tenants, a small restaurant and a small retail store, struggle with this. I have no idea how they will be able to survive to the end of this, nor how California's economy avoids being a shambles even if there IS an end.


The solution is the ultimate form of democratic socialism.  Borgification.  One singular super consiousness with each individual having a vote for every action, but no ability to go against the will of the collective.  We won't need an economy.  We will just be the collective.
 
2020-07-14 8:50:27 PM  
Confirming.  Hawaii here.  They're dropping like flies.

And we're in a mid strength lockdown.  Everybody is free to move about inside their own counties (inter county movement is kinda restricted by the world's largest moat) but large assemblies are banned and restaurants have to run at half capacity and with extra measures.

Every week another alert comes on my facebook page of somebody packing it in.

TIL that there, well, WAS a karaoke bar in Texas.  God knows I wouldn't trust any of the karaoke bars around here.  My mother is showing signs of what I can only consider COVID-caused cognitive conversion:  she used to idolize being upcountry, where people were few and events nonexistent, and it drove me farking bats.
Just before this all happened, she realized she was getting too old for that shiat and moved to what you mainlanders would consider the suburbs.  NOW all of a sudden she can't stop wanting to be in crowds, and said that if this keeps up COVID will send us back to the dark ages of her youth.  Thanks ma!  That's what I've been trying to tell ya for decades!

But hey just find something new, right, Ivanka?

farking hell.
 
2020-07-14 8:57:25 PM  

adamatari: The problem was that the PPP was PAYCHECK protection. It did nothing to keep business afloat, just kept workers on the books so that a) employment numbers stayed higher and b) they didn't have to pay workers the bonus unemployment money.

It was never designed to save businesses. Rent moratoriums for commercial property would do more good. Lots of policies would be more effective.


Fun fact, the PPP allowed rent, utilities and other similar types of business expenses to be paid using PPP funds and part of the forgiveness portion of the loan. The only catch was you had to spend at least 75% on payroll expenses which for most wouldn't have been that hard since that was the programs primary focus. Now it depends on the scenario sure, plenty of small businesses with single digit employment may have rent and utility bills that exceeded 1/3 of their payroll cost pending location, but to say it offered businesses nothing in those categories is patently false. Furthermore it also assumes you get literally $0 in production out of your workforce. If you were able to stay open in a limited capacity your payroll costs would be covered making any income you did make during that time significantly more profitable since labor was essentially free.

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of criticisms to level at the program like for starters the way they shoveled money out the door even to large organizations regardless of actual need and even to several public corporations which had much easier access to capital than the small businesses that needed it the most. They also could have certainly structured it better from the ground up and provided rent assistance to companies and individuals alike.
 
2020-07-14 9:00:38 PM  
I wonder if NYT would do a story about small town newspapers it is putting out of business.
 
2020-07-14 9:02:13 PM  

gyruss: You were warned that this would happen, Republicans.

You may as well give up yourselves and deliberately nosedive the economy before November so you can start blaming Biden before he's even inaugurated.


The Republicans have achieved what they always wanted.

A certain class of people own everything.
 
2020-07-14 9:04:50 PM  
I know of one business that's doing well, if only because there are so few labs that develop film on site. He's got people mailing things in from around the country since a lot of their local labs are (hopefully temporarily) closed. I know I'll be bringing in my film for as long as he's around. Heck, I'd take over the place when he retires if I could.
 
2020-07-14 9:14:12 PM  
Amazing how terrible R's are at governing isn't it?  This was easily preventable but they just had to have revenge against Obama and repudiate Clinton.
 
2020-07-14 9:14:23 PM  

adamatari: The problem was that the PPP was PAYCHECK protection. It did nothing to keep business afloat, just kept workers on the books so that a) employment numbers stayed higher and b) they didn't have to pay workers the bonus unemployment money.

It was never designed to save businesses. Rent moratoriums for commercial property would do more good. Lots of policies would be more effective.


Truth.  Take my experience, for example.  I was last working for a company that did boat tours, and also sold logo gear and kitsch from retail storefronts collocated with the check in counters.

COVID hits.  Mandated lockdown of gathering places and tourism in general.  Obviously, all boats halt.  All reservationists halt.  All face to face retail halts.

PPP loan comes through.  But we still have no customers, because tourism is still locked down for one, and even if the locals wanted to, Harbors refuses to issue operating permits.

So we ended off in the goofy position of:
--Reservations, Retail salespeople, Boat crews:  being paid PPP paychecks to sit and home and do nothing.
--Maintenance, Boat captains and whatever crew members were bored out of their skulls enough:  Come to work and fix up the boats.  Argue every day about the cost of consumables such as brushes, rollers, tape, for painting epoxy over metal.
--Corporate income:  none.
 
2020-07-14 9:23:36 PM  
"No matter that the frozen margarita machine was full, that 175 plastic syringes with booze-infused Jell-O were in place, or that there were masks for staff members and hand sanitizer for guests.
That day, June 26, Mr. Larkin and his partner dumped what they had just bought into the trash and decided to close their club, Krank It Karaoke, for good."
And nothing of value was lost
 
2020-07-14 9:31:12 PM  

keldaria: Fun fact, the PPP allowed rent, utilities and other similar types of business expenses to be paid using PPP funds and part of the forgiveness portion of the loan. The only catch was you had to spend at least 75% on payroll expenses which for most wouldn't have been that hard since that was the programs primary focus. Now it depends on the scenario sure, plenty of small businesses with single digit employment may have rent and utility bills that exceeded 1/3 of their payroll cost pending location, but to say it offered businesses nothing in those categories is patently false. Furthermore it also assumes you get literally $0 in production out of your workforce. If you were able to stay open in a limited capacity your payroll costs would be covered making any income you did make during that time significantly more profitable since labor was essentially free.


Government loan forgiveness has a pretty sordid history of being anything but a sure thing.  Miss one requirement and it changes from a nice grant to a big loan (with only a 2-year repayment period).

One of this big requirement gambles for the PPP was that it required that everyone be rehired by June 30th (this was later changed to Dec 31st, but the following logic remains the same).  If I know that demand will be down no matter what, even if there were no second shutdowns, I won't need 100% of the staff I had back in Feb 2020.  Keeping that extra staff may mean the difference between operating in the black and operating in the red with the reduced foot traffic.  If there were further shutdowns and I owned a gym/restaurant/barbershop/etc, I'd be rehiring all my staff to try to meet the requirements of the PPP with no customers, just so I can use the other 25% of it to pay my rent/utilities.  And if I miss some requirement to get my loan forgiven and it stays a loan, I'm screwed.

For me, it wasn't worth that risk, but some business owners had to take the PPP to survive the (first?) shutdown.
 
2020-07-14 9:46:46 PM  
I don't know how many small business in my area have failed, as I just moved here in Feb.  Judging from my inability to get some outdoor plumbing done, gutter guards* installed or trees removed I'd say 90% are history.

*actually got a call about installing guards.  How they got my number is a puzzle, as their product is basically useless when you have lots of pine, fir and cedar trees and I did not contact them myself.
 
2020-07-14 9:55:33 PM  

Hoobajube: keldaria: Fun fact, the PPP allowed rent, utilities and other similar types of business expenses to be paid using PPP funds and part of the forgiveness portion of the loan. The only catch was you had to spend at least 75% on payroll expenses which for most wouldn't have been that hard since that was the programs primary focus. Now it depends on the scenario sure, plenty of small businesses with single digit employment may have rent and utility bills that exceeded 1/3 of their payroll cost pending location, but to say it offered businesses nothing in those categories is patently false. Furthermore it also assumes you get literally $0 in production out of your workforce. If you were able to stay open in a limited capacity your payroll costs would be covered making any income you did make during that time significantly more profitable since labor was essentially free.

Government loan forgiveness has a pretty sordid history of being anything but a sure thing.  Miss one requirement and it changes from a nice grant to a big loan (with only a 2-year repayment period).

One of this big requirement gambles for the PPP was that it required that everyone be rehired by June 30th (this was later changed to Dec 31st, but the following logic remains the same).  If I know that demand will be down no matter what, even if there were no second shutdowns, I won't need 100% of the staff I had back in Feb 2020.  Keeping that extra staff may mean the difference between operating in the black and operating in the red with the reduced foot traffic.  If there were further shutdowns and I owned a gym/restaurant/barbershop/etc, I'd be rehiring all my staff to try to meet the requirements of the PPP with no customers, just so I can use the other 25% of it to pay my rent/utilities.  And if I miss some requirement to get my loan forgiven and it stays a loan, I'm screwed.

For me, it wasn't worth that risk, but some business owners had to take the PPP to survive the (first?) shutdown.


Yes and no, the June 30th deadline for rehire was just a point in time and was the safe harbor qualifier not the primary qualifier for forgiveness.

It spoke nothing of the need to keep people employed in perpetuity nor was it strictly required. If you were going for forgiveness you just had to show that you didn't reduce employees during the covered period and you didn't cut their salaries during the covered period. If you couldn't do that the you needed to bring all your employees back by said date as a backup measure to qualify for full forgiveness.

Beyond that the forgiveness is not all or nothing. The law contains formulas that reduce the amount you can get forgiven for based upon what metrics you hit or missed. Didn't hire back 1/10th of your work force and didn't meet the safe harbor clause? They reduce your forgiveness amount accordingly as the programs goal first and foremost was to keep people on payroll. Obviously if you didn't do that then you should have extra unspent funds at the end of the covered period and at which point you could choose if you needed to keep those and roll them into a 2 year loan or repay the unforgiven portion of the loan assuming the funds matched up (in some scenarios who you choose to bring back vs who you opted to not bring back may have impacted your payroll expenses differently than the forgiveness formula but they couldn't exactly plan for everything with they formulas, they just wanted to avoid the CEO only bringing back 10% of his workforce and giving himself and his managers a 90% bonus)
 
2020-07-14 10:04:43 PM  

Ishidan: adamatari: The problem was that the PPP was PAYCHECK protection. It did nothing to keep business afloat, just kept workers on the books so that a) employment numbers stayed higher and b) they didn't have to pay workers the bonus unemployment money.

It was never designed to save businesses. Rent moratoriums for commercial property would do more good. Lots of policies would be more effective.

Truth.  Take my experience, for example.  I was last working for a company that did boat tours, and also sold logo gear and kitsch from retail storefronts collocated with the check in counters.

COVID hits.  Mandated lockdown of gathering places and tourism in general.  Obviously, all boats halt.  All reservationists halt.  All face to face retail halts.

PPP loan comes through.  But we still have no customers, because tourism is still locked down for one, and even if the locals wanted to, Harbors refuses to issue operating permits.

So we ended off in the goofy position of:
--Reservations, Retail salespeople, Boat crews:  being paid PPP paychecks to sit and home and do nothing.
--Maintenance, Boat captains and whatever crew members were bored out of their skulls enough:  Come to work and fix up the boats.  Argue every day about the cost of consumables such as brushes, rollers, tape, for painting epoxy over metal.
--Corporate income:  none.


The tourism industry is farked for the foreseeable future. But the PPP is not to blame for that, the lack of federal planning, guidance and ultimately the right wanting to stiggnit for freedums is what is responsible for that. If we had a competent president in the White House and the republicans not turned Covid into a political issue then in all likelihood we would've been trending lower like the several competent countries around the world and you could have possible seen a reopening in a 2 month time frame with a reasonable amount of precautions being taken and contact tracing in effect.

The PPP was not designed as a cure for stupidity, so expecting it to live up to those burdens is quite extravagant. Could the government have done more in terms of direct payments and stipends to keep things moving? Yes but republicans exist so we can't have anything nice unless your a multi billion dollar corporation, in which case you get to cut yourself checks directly from uncle sams bank account.
 
2020-07-14 10:14:27 PM  
A Krav Maga school in SF whose regulars are like a farking family had to close this month. COVID was the coup-de-grace to the already insane Bay Area rents.
 
2020-07-14 10:21:00 PM  

keldaria: Don't get me wrong there is plenty of criticisms to level at the program like for starters the way they shoveled money out the door even to large organizations regardless of actual need and even to several public corporations which had much easier access to capital than the small businesses that needed it the most. They also could have certainly structured it better from the ground up and provided rent assistance to companies and individuals alike.


But that's the thing.  They had to shovel it out the door as quickly as possible.
 
2020-07-14 10:23:48 PM  
natazha:
*actually got a call about installing guards.  How they got my number is a puzzle, as their product is basically useless when you have lots of pine, fir and cedar trees and I did not contact them myself.

They're still useful, you just want the ones with a finer mesh.
 
2020-07-14 10:33:20 PM  
I will say this again.
It will only get worse.
We have failed and the Fed is doing nothing.
If the GOP decides the people don't need a Cares 2 stimulus before August get ready for some unpleasant rioting.
Eat the Rich
 
2020-07-14 11:37:32 PM  

adamatari: The problem was that the PPP was PAYCHECK protection. It did nothing to keep business afloat, just kept workers on the books so that a) employment numbers stayed higher and b) they didn't have to pay workers the bonus unemployment money.

It was never designed to save businesses. Rent moratoriums for commercial property would do more good. Lots of policies would be more effective.


Can't do that because then REITs and other complex rent- and property-based instruments would shiat even harder than they have. Gotta let the wealthy get their money out (and some middle class pension money while they're at it) before you let things really get bad. PPP let's it seem like they're helping people at the same time. Win-win-win if you're worth more than a few million.
 
2020-07-14 11:52:57 PM  

Hoobajube: keldaria: Fun fact, the PPP allowed rent, utilities and other similar types of business expenses to be paid using PPP funds and part of the forgiveness portion of the loan. The only catch was you had to spend at least 75% on payroll expenses which for most wouldn't have been that hard since that was the programs primary focus. Now it depends on the scenario sure, plenty of small businesses with single digit employment may have rent and utility bills that exceeded 1/3 of their payroll cost pending location, but to say it offered businesses nothing in those categories is patently false. Furthermore it also assumes you get literally $0 in production out of your workforce. If you were able to stay open in a limited capacity your payroll costs would be covered making any income you did make during that time significantly more profitable since labor was essentially free.

Government loan forgiveness has a pretty sordid history of being anything but a sure thing.  Miss one requirement and it changes from a nice grant to a big loan (with only a 2-year repayment period).

One of this big requirement gambles for the PPP was that it required that everyone be rehired by June 30th (this was later changed to Dec 31st, but the following logic remains the same).  If I know that demand will be down no matter what, even if there were no second shutdowns, I won't need 100% of the staff I had back in Feb 2020.  Keeping that extra staff may mean the difference between operating in the black and operating in the red with the reduced foot traffic.  If there were further shutdowns and I owned a gym/restaurant/barbershop/etc, I'd be rehiring all my staff to try to meet the requirements of the PPP with no customers, just so I can use the other 25% of it to pay my rent/utilities.  And if I miss some requirement to get my loan forgiven and it stays a loan, I'm screwed.

For me, it wasn't worth that risk, but some business owners had to take the PPP to survive the (first?) shutdown.


Or for my main client's case:

Small newspaper chain where he's the only W-2 employee. Besides him there's a really shiatty salesperson; a smattering of delivery people; and me, the editor/designer.

His single biggest expense is the printing. I'm the second biggest. He got approved for PPP but couldn't claim me as an employee because I'm 1099 and technically a service he's paying for not an employee. That meant I had to apply for myself.

My bank decided it was only doing PPP loans to people with established business checking accounts, something I've never needed nor have the resources to maintain. By the time I found someplace that would (theoretically) take an application from anyone, the hogs had cleaned the trough, and they'd stopped taking applications because there was no money.

I should have had him fire me and collected unemployment. But if he'd done that his business would have been pretty much dead in the water. He can do what I do, but not as quickly or as well, and if he is doing my job he's not making sales.

We've muddled through so far with the stimulus replacing about two-thirds of my lost income. But it's bad, and if it stays bad he's done. Good news is in theory without him sucking up my time I can fish up new clients. My work requires no face to face interaction.

Bad news is I've been spoiled by one steady client for 20 years, and everybody and their brother is trying to do the same thing.
 
2020-07-14 11:55:28 PM  
Should add too that I'm one of the lucky people who is and can (supposedly) keep right on trucking through a shutdown.

I can't imagine what an absolute nightmare it is for people who aren't in web-based businesses right now.
 
2020-07-15 12:25:26 AM  
This thread never had a chance.

Good job.
 
2020-07-15 12:25:47 AM  

jjorsett: I'm watching my tenants, a small restaurant and a small retail store, struggle with this. I have no idea how they will be able to survive to the end of this, nor how California's economy avoids being a shambles even if there IS an end.


Oh, there's an end...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-15 11:33:29 AM  
Unless you're in one of the at-risk categories (like my elder sis) covid-19 is just as dangerous to you as any other "bad flu" we get every other year or so.  Th worst projections never materialized, and slowing down the spread worked to prevent ICU overload. Fair enuf.

But slowing down transmission is all we CAN do, by this time next year everyone not staying 100% in isolation (and a bunch of them as well) WILL have contracted this. In the meantime, people are dying because they're scared to get treatment (or aren't even allowed to get treatment) for everything else medically wrong with them. The whole "OMG, the ICUs are full up, shut everything down again" argument ignores that the ICUs aren't full of C-19 patients, they're full of them plus everyone else whose healthcare was put on hold by the first medical shut down.

Hospitals were running in the red and warning they might have to close because their ICUs - which are NORMALLY full up - we're emptied in case of the C-19 wave/tsunami - which we did avoid. Everyday small (and some big) businesses lost money and some closed because we shut them down. Individuals  in personal care jobs, tourism and travel jobs, and other "non essential" jobs drained their limited savings because we forced them not to work. The govt manufactured money out of thin air to help out those hurt, but you can't do that endlessly without it backfiring on you - do you want to have to pay for groceries with a wheelbarrow of  worthless cash?

In short, shutting down the economy is not something you can do long term. And even if we could, it wouldn't stop the spread before 90%+ of us caught the bug. And this is not a Stephen King "Mr. Trip" level event.
 
2020-07-15 12:03:33 PM  

BobM2: In short, shutting down the economy is not something you can do long term.


See World War 1 and World War 2.  It can be done with leadership.
 
2020-07-15 1:24:53 PM  

duckpoopy: "No matter that the frozen margarita machine was full, that 175 plastic syringes with booze-infused Jell-O were in place, or that there were masks for staff members and hand sanitizer for guests.
That day, June 26, Mr. Larkin and his partner dumped what they had just bought into the trash and decided to close their club, Krank It Karaoke, for good."
And nothing of value was lost


Pop quiz: Would you ever do something that would give you a fleeting moment of joy if it made everyone around you significantly more miserable.

If so, you're a bad person.

Followup question: Have you ever done karaoke?
 
2020-07-15 1:28:17 PM  

BobM2: Unless you're in one of the at-risk categories (like my elder sis) covid-19 is just as dangerous to you as any other "bad flu" we get every other year or so.  Th worst projections never materialized, and slowing down the spread worked to prevent ICU overload. Fair enuf.

But slowing down transmission is all we CAN do, by this time next year everyone not staying 100% in isolation (and a bunch of them as well) WILL have contracted this. In the meantime, people are dying because they're scared to get treatment (or aren't even allowed to get treatment) for everything else medically wrong with them. The whole "OMG, the ICUs are full up, shut everything down again" argument ignores that the ICUs aren't full of C-19 patients, they're full of them plus everyone else whose healthcare was put on hold by the first medical shut down.

Hospitals were running in the red and warning they might have to close because their ICUs - which are NORMALLY full up - we're emptied in case of the C-19 wave/tsunami - which we did avoid. Everyday small (and some big) businesses lost money and some closed because we shut them down. Individuals  in personal care jobs, tourism and travel jobs, and other "non essential" jobs drained their limited savings because we forced them not to work. The govt manufactured money out of thin air to help out those hurt, but you can't do that endlessly without it backfiring on you - do you want to have to pay for groceries with a wheelbarrow of  worthless cash?

In short, shutting down the economy is not something you can do long term. And even if we could, it wouldn't stop the spread before 90%+ of us caught the bug. And this is not a Stephen King "Mr. Trip" level event.


This is why you are wrong:

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size


He cites his sources after this. Just follow this link: https://www.quora.com/How-can-a​-diseas​e-with-1-mortality-shut-down-the-Unite​d-States?share=1 and find him down the page.

That law of large numbers is a real biatch. Even if you want to write off old people who, as a demographic will have a much higher death rate, and even if your "low risk" groups have a .25 percent death rate you are still talking about that rate among 198 million americans (the 18-64 age bracket) that's 495,000 people dead along with all the other knock-on effects listed above.

We went to war and put our economy on a way footing with Japan over a little more than 2,400 dead. We dumped billions of dollars into the war on terror over 3,000 people. We could get off our asses and beat this if we had real leaders.

For another point of reference consider that WWII "only" killed about 3 percent of the world's population at the time, and that little number had some "minor" effects on the world.
 
2020-07-15 2:33:02 PM  

solokumba: BobM2: In short, shutting down the economy is not something you can do long term.

See World War 1 and World War 2.  It can be done with leadership.


How's that?  WWI and WWII wasn't an economic shut down, it was an economic redirect.

Yes there was censorship and rationing at levels that would make a modern Conservative shiat himself with outrage (unless, of course, he himself was exempt from ration books and could free market all he wanted), but boy howdy was there jobs.

Young and male?  Join the military, do your duty.
Not young, still male?  The factories need you, go learn how to be a machinist that makes the guns that the young men use.
Young and female?  Have you heard of the WAAC, USO, WAVES?
Not young and still female?  Guess who runs the rationing programs, scrap drives, civil defense lookouts...
 
2020-07-15 2:42:02 PM  

Ishidan: solokumba: BobM2: In short, shutting down the economy is not something you can do long term.

See World War 1 and World War 2.  It can be done with leadership.

How's that?  WWI and WWII wasn't an economic shut down, it was an economic redirect.

Yes there was censorship and rationing at levels that would make a modern Conservative shiat himself with outrage (unless, of course, he himself was exempt from ration books and could free market all he wanted), but boy howdy was there jobs.

Young and male?  Join the military, do your duty.
Not young, still male?  The factories need you, go learn how to be a machinist that makes the guns that the young men use.
Young and female?  Have you heard of the WAAC, USO, WAVES?
Not young and still female?  Guess who runs the rationing programs, scrap drives, civil defense lookouts...


It's a war. Fight it. That is exactly what Biden and Democrats are saying. Public works programs should be starting up everyday but Moscow Mitch does nothing with the bills.

So I guess just die for the economy
 
2020-07-15 2:51:13 PM  
Boudyro:

That law of large numbers ...

So I added up all those quoted numbers and came up with 180.5 million.

Over fifty percent of the entire population.  Delete "hospitalizations" as double counts because you can assume that anybody that gets the permanent heart or lung damage will show up in the hospitalized column in order to find out about it, and you're still looking at a quarter of the entire population dead or crippled.  Sure sure keep going, assume the muscle weakness and cognitive weakness is another double count that's a side effect of the stroke or the ruined cardiovascular system, you're still over 20 percent of the entire population crippled, in a country famous for its "fark you, pay me" healthcare model.
 
2020-07-15 3:00:27 PM  

great_tigers: I wonder if NYT would do a story about small town newspapers it is putting out of business.


I think the Venn diagram of what each covers is miles from the New York Times circle.
 
2020-07-15 3:06:30 PM  
solokumba: It's a war. Fight it.

Ah, that's what you meant.  Not that you can shut down with leadership, but that you can change stance and fight with leadership.

And you're damn right.  If this country had decent leadership, we'd have our textile plants cranking out hospital gowns and masks instead of worrying about next fashion season.  Car factories would be making ventilators, just like they were called upon to make tanks for WWII.  Large event venues?  You've been deputized as field hospitals.
 
2020-07-15 3:17:07 PM  
Biff was told to close his shiatty bar to help control COVID-19.

He was allowed to keep selling pub food to go, and even beer and wine, but beer and wine are cheaper at the grocery and his pub food was only palatable after you were already far too drunk to be legally served at all.

Find something else? Not our Biff. Who would hire him anyway? Anybody who had ever given him a break never kept him on for long, because (Biff would tell you) employers didn't like to hire heterosexual white men with life experience who liked beer and straight talk---not, of course, because he was lazy, bigoted, not that bright, and a general asshole to everyone who worked with him, regardless of race or gender, with a sense of entitlement larger than many US states.

Even the shiatty bar only made enough to cover rent in a good month. Never his fault, of course---he treated his servers like crap, made them hand over the tips, and then blamed them for not wanting to work hard when they quit. IRS, landlord with funny foreign name, suppliers, you name them, Biff would tell you how they kept him from making a living.

COVID-19 was the last straw.

Biff showed up at the statehouse with a machine gun, demanding his god-given right to re-open his shiatty bar, and insisting that China Virus was only a threat to Those People, and Biff's machine gun said white people had the right to do what they goddamn wanted.

The state government gave in and let him re-open. Some of his regulars even returned for a while, glad of having somewhere to escape the ball and chain again.

A month later cases were through the roof and Biff had to close his shiatty bar again, this time for good.

Biff will continue to blame anybody but himself.
 
2020-07-15 5:52:38 PM  

Ishidan: Confirming.  Hawaii here.  They're dropping like flies.

And we're in a mid strength lockdown.  Everybody is free to move about inside their own counties (inter county movement is kinda restricted by the world's largest moat) but large assemblies are banned and restaurants have to run at half capacity and with extra measures.

Every week another alert comes on my facebook page of somebody packing it in.

TIL that there, well, WAS a karaoke bar in Texas.  God knows I wouldn't trust any of the karaoke bars around here.  My mother is showing signs of what I can only consider COVID-caused cognitive conversion:  she used to idolize being upcountry, where people were few and events nonexistent, and it drove me farking bats.
Just before this all happened, she realized she was getting too old for that shiat and moved to what you mainlanders would consider the suburbs.  NOW all of a sudden she can't stop wanting to be in crowds, and said that if this keeps up COVID will send us back to the dark ages of her youth.  Thanks ma!  That's what I've been trying to tell ya for decades!

But hey just find something new, right, Ivanka?

farking hell.


I'm surprised anything is left open in Hawaii.  Everything there depends on tourists, who are banned currently.  At least you have the virus under control.
 
2020-07-15 6:08:03 PM  

BobM2: And this is not a Stephen King "Mr. Trip" level event.


CAPTAIN Tripps, please. It didn't kill 90 percent of America to be called "Mister".
 
2020-07-16 3:28:04 AM  
Geotpf:
I'm surprised anything is left open in Hawaii.  Everything there depends on tourists, who are banned currently.  At least you have the virus under control.

And right on schedule, another one lights up my FB page: Moose McGillycuddy's in Waikiki, a staple for 40 years, has quit.  Two days ago it was Da Kitchen, a Maui restaurant chain of almost 20 years.
 
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