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(The Hill)   Can Trump pardon himself?   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, President of the United States, Donald Trump, Richard Nixon, team of White House correspondents, Bill Clinton, Pardon, White House, Gerald Ford  
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2977 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jul 2020 at 12:54 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-14 9:55:06 AM  
No.  That is all.
 
2020-07-14 10:06:57 AM  
A man may not be the judge in his own case.
 
2020-07-14 10:07:29 AM  
He can, and I'm sure it'll be argued in court. BUT...

State charges Donnie.
 
2020-07-14 10:12:53 AM  

gopher321: He can, and I'm sure it'll be argued in court. BUT...

State charges Donnie.


Exactly!
 
2020-07-14 10:16:18 AM  

A Cave Geek: No.  That is all.


He also can't assassinate an Iranian general who was in Iraq at theirrequest. But, here we are.
 
2020-07-14 10:23:30 AM  
He can, it's just a question of whether our courts will allow it to stand.
 
2020-07-14 10:31:42 AM  
He'll still do it, though.
 
2020-07-14 11:47:23 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: He can, it's just a question of whether our courts will allow it to stand.


By definition a pardon cannot be given to yourself.  No one has ever sneezed or farted and said "I pardon myself".  It is only ever defined as given from one person to another.  Law does not like to change the meaning of words.
 
2020-07-14 11:48:25 AM  

propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.


He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.
 
2020-07-14 12:12:18 PM  

mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.


That's the easy way
 
2020-07-14 12:56:03 PM  

mrshowrules: AdmirableSnackbar: He can, it's just a question of whether our courts will allow it to stand.

By definition a pardon cannot be given to yourself.  No one has ever sneezed or farted and said "I pardon myself".  It is only ever defined as given from one person to another.  Law does not like to change the meaning of words.


Trump and his admin have done an awful lot of things he "cannot" do.

The rules are worthless as long as enforcement is nonexistent.
 
2020-07-14 12:56:58 PM  
Not for state crimes that is for sure.
 
2020-07-14 12:56:58 PM  
Doesn't matter. He will get charged with New York state crimes.
 
2020-07-14 12:57:02 PM  
Pardons need to be reformed.

We know that won't happen until a Democrat gets into office though because Republicans won't go for it unless it limits a dem.
 
2020-07-14 12:57:26 PM  

mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.


As soon as Donald is out of office, the arrest warrants from the State of New York will be signed.  No President can issue a pardon for state charges/crimes.
 
2020-07-14 12:57:30 PM  
He can and likely will try.

mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.


There has never been a proper judicial challenge of a blanket pardon for any possible crimes that may be found.
They can certainty do it. But I wouldn't bet my lunch on them getting away with it.

And you're asking me to choose between the likelihood of Pence being too much of a pussy to actually do it, and being too much of a pussy to not do as he's told. This is a paradox.
 
2020-07-14 12:57:45 PM  

No1farker: Not for state crimes that is for sure.


*shakes fist*
 
2020-07-14 12:57:56 PM  

propasaurus: mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.

That's the easy way


Again, this does nothing for state charges.  Even Donnie's not dumb enough to choose Rikers over a nice Club Fed somewhere in the Midwest.  Which, of course, means he'll choose Rikers.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:02 PM  
Does it matter? If he feels he needs a pardon he can just step down on January 19 and have Pence pardon him.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:14 PM  
He'll pardon himself as he jumps on a plane to a country with beautiful beaches and no extradition treaty. By the time the courts hem and haw over it he'll be long dead.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:18 PM  

mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.


This. And Pence would easily do it.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:22 PM  

propasaurus: mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.

That's the easy way


It is the best solution for him.  Which mean he will not do it.  So that is good.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:24 PM  
I liked the headline better when I misread "pardon" as "F*CK"
 
2020-07-14 12:58:25 PM  
whether or not can, he'll try.

And the following appeals will drag the case out for the rest of his life.
 
2020-07-14 12:58:42 PM  
yes, he can. His lawyers will then drag it through court for years until it's somewhat of a moot point. Meanwhile I think New York State has a lot to say to him.
 
2020-07-14 12:59:07 PM  

propasaurus: mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.

That's the easy way


Also, that requires an element of trust.  And Dipshiat Donnie, while stupid, doesn't trust anyone at all.
 
2020-07-14 1:00:06 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-14 1:00:08 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: He can, it's just a question of whether our courts will allow it to stand.


This.

He'll probably try it, but it'll be pointless against any state charges. Would be nice if several states could decimate what little is profitable in the Trump "Empire", including his family since they're all cut from the same cloth of grifters, and leave them penniless. That'd be more justice than him dying due to an aneurysm or some other medical malady.
 
2020-07-14 1:00:21 PM  

Krieghund: whether or not can, he'll try.

And the following appeals will drag the case out for the rest of his life.


I think Mr. 239 with the greatest genes on earth will easily live to 140 years old, just ask his doctor.  So there's time.
 
2020-07-14 1:00:32 PM  
Didn't the Supreme Court just say the pres isn't above the law?  Pardoning yourself would be exactly that.

Now, he can probably pull the 'ol "retire before the election and work a deal to have Pence pardon him" scheme.
 
2020-07-14 1:00:35 PM  
Folks,
Don't worry, Iran has put a bounty on Donald J Trump's head and a staggering amount of people need money fast.
 
2020-07-14 1:00:42 PM  
I suspect it goes down slightly differently about a week before the inauguration. 

1)  Trump issues broad pardons for his family and top administration officials, including Pence
2)  Trump leaves the country for a place with no extradition treaty with the U.S.
3)  Trump resigns
4)  Pence sworn in as 46th President
5)  Pence issues a broad pardon to Trump
 
2020-07-14 1:00:43 PM  
The only reason Donald would consider pardoning himself is if he is confident Pence would wimp out and refuse to pardon him should he resign.
 
2020-07-14 1:01:08 PM  
I mean, it's entirely possible that if Trump were to pardon himself that federal investigators would decline to pursue it simply because it would be such thorny ground that could set solid president if such a thing was possible in the future with unexpected consequences.

I'd also argue that is a good reason for Trump not to even try it, but when does he not poke the bear?
 
2020-07-14 1:01:29 PM  

A Cave Geek: No.  That is all.



Citation needed
 
2020-07-14 1:02:01 PM  

propasaurus: mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.

That's the easy way


Does mama's boy really want to go down in history as the sack of shiat that pardons Dump45*?

/ who am I kidding
// those state charges are gonna be a tough one to dodge
 
2020-07-14 1:02:17 PM  
Before January 20th, who is going to stop him?

I suppose a new DOJ might have a new take on it after January 20th, but then it will depend on which judge gets the case--Trump has appointed a lot of them.  If it goes all the way to the supreme court, it's up to Roberts.  Assuming something hasn't happened to RBG by then.
 
2020-07-14 1:02:22 PM  
There is no generally accepted "no" so the answer is maybe which is all that Trump wants. Can Trump reverse Obama on DACA, no but for three years he did while it wound its way through the courts. Can Trump pardon himself, no but it will take years for a final ruling.

On the bright side while Trump's lawyer argues in favor of a pardon Trump can live rent-free at one of New York's finer correction facilities.
 
2020-07-14 1:02:26 PM  
Sure why not. Nothing matters and he's never held accountable. I'm sure because he tapped his foot twice and did the secret fart that the senate will let it pass but claim it's not precedent.
 
2020-07-14 1:02:30 PM  

IndyJohn: I suspect it goes down slightly differently about a week before the inauguration. 

1)  Trump issues broad pardons for his family and top administration officials, including Pence
2)  Trump leaves the country for a place with no extradition treaty with the U.S.
3)  Trump resigns
4)  Pence sworn in as 46th President
5)  Pence issues a broad pardon to Trump


This will go over well, I predict no fallout from this.
 
2020-07-14 1:03:15 PM  
Dont you have to be found guilty to be pardoned? I wouldn't think you can blanket  pardon yourself if you haven't been convicted. He will be a civilian by the time he is hauled into court.
/ can't wait!!
 
2020-07-14 1:04:00 PM  
Pardon?  Oh, I'm sure he'll try it (even if it means having Mikey do it under duress.)
Excuse?  NEVER.  There is no excuse for him, or his family, or his cult.  None.  Ever.
 
2020-07-14 1:04:56 PM  
I don't think Pence can successfully pardon him of all federal crimes he has not been charged with yet. Of which there could be a ton.

In fact I am guessing that some of the federal offices are sitting on investigations quietly waiting for Barr to leave office.
 
2020-07-14 1:05:06 PM  
He will. It'll go to the Supreme Court.

Then we'll see if his two toady judges are really in his pocket, or have a shred of integrity.
 
2020-07-14 1:05:37 PM  

ODDO: Dont you have to be found guilty to be pardoned? I wouldn't think you can blanket  pardon yourself if you haven't been convicted. He will be a civilian by the time he is hauled into court.
/ can't wait!!


Or at least have charges filed against you?
 
2020-07-14 1:07:00 PM  
He's sure as shiat gonna try like hell.
 
2020-07-14 1:07:05 PM  

gopher321: He can, and I'm sure it'll be argued in court. BUT...

State charges Donnie.


If he goes so far as to issue himself a pardon, why not go all in and declare himself immune from state charges as well?  I mean, it won't be valid, hell the whole idea of pardoning himself is questionable, but I can see him doing exactly that.
 
2020-07-14 1:07:16 PM  

Mad Scientist: Didn't the Supreme Court just say the pres isn't above the law?  Pardoning yourself would be exactly that.

Now, he can probably pull the 'ol "retire before the election and work a deal to have Pence pardon him" scheme.


Whether or not he's above the law is not the issue.

The issue is whether there are any limits on the pardon power granted by the Constitution.

On its face, the answer is that there are only 2 limits to the pardon power, which is described as follows:

"The President shall ... have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."  U.S. Const. Art. II, Sec. 2, Cl. 1.

So those limits are:

1)  It must be an "Offense[] against the United States" -- he cannot grant pardons for state-level crimes

2)  He cannot grant a pardon to prevent impeachment
 
2020-07-14 1:07:19 PM  

Nuclear Monk: ODDO: Dont you have to be found guilty to be pardoned? I wouldn't think you can blanket  pardon yourself if you haven't been convicted. He will be a civilian by the time he is hauled into court.
/ can't wait!!

Or at least have charges filed against you?


Nixon, you dolt
 
2020-07-14 1:07:23 PM  

emersonbiggins: propasaurus: mrshowrules: propasaurus: He'll still do it, though.

He could resign at some point after the election to get Pence to pardon him.

That's the easy way

Again, this does nothing for state charges.  Even Donnie's not dumb enough to choose Rikers over a nice Club Fed somewhere in the Midwest.  Which, of course, means he'll choose Rikers.


Is there any law that says the state sentences have to be concurrently with the federal ones?  He could have Riker's waiting for him when he gets out of Club Fed.

/Is Bernard Madoff in Riker's?
 
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