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(The New York Times)   Former Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman knows the differences between the Nixon and Trump impeachments, also why Robet Mueller's investigation never stood a chance because of what "amounted to a cover-up"   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Richard Nixon, President of the United States, Pardon, Watergate scandal, Mr. Trump's commuting, Gerald Ford, Prosecution, President Trump  
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1393 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jul 2020 at 7:08 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-07-13 5:03:06 PM  
I dunno. Mueller could have stood up for the country when he had the chance. Instead he kind of pissed his pants.
 
2020-07-13 5:53:41 PM  
In before the stormtrumpers fire up the Russian hoax shoutdowns....

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-13 6:10:30 PM  
#TRE45ON

 
2020-07-13 6:28:25 PM  
Trump is owned by Putin.  That's obvious.
 
2020-07-13 6:33:04 PM  
Mueller's investigation was and still is necessary. It's not like Trump is going to run a 100% honest campaign this fall. Use this election to launch criminal investigations when he loses, and tie in Mueller's findings to stack the charges on all those corrupt farkers.

I'd even suggest adding in GOP members of Congress who aided and abetted the crimes and cover-up. No more of this move on to heal the country bullshiat. We shouldn't move on until honest justice is served in full.
 
2020-07-13 7:10:08 PM  
Robert Mueller could've gotten the job done. If only he hadn't been replaced with his evil doppelganger Robet Mueller before he finished
 
2020-07-13 7:10:49 PM  
He's still impeached ..
 
2020-07-13 7:11:08 PM  
It was barely a coverup. They just farking did it.
 
2020-07-13 7:12:16 PM  
Mueller's investigation is what successful obstruction of justice looks like.

There should be blood.
 
2020-07-13 7:12:52 PM  
Robet
 
2020-07-13 7:13:24 PM  

mikalmd: He's still impeached ..


Not enough, not any longer.  Not nearly enough.
 
2020-07-13 7:14:56 PM  
Is it really a cover up if we all know he's guilty?
 
2020-07-13 7:19:14 PM  

Brosephus: Mueller's investigation was and still is necessary. It's not like Trump is going to run a 100% honest campaign this fall. Use this election to launch criminal investigations when he loses, and tie in Mueller's findings to stack the charges on all those corrupt farkers.

I'd even suggest adding in GOP members of Congress who aided and abetted the crimes and cover-up. No more of this move on to heal the country bullshiat. We shouldn't move on until honest justice is served in full.


Yeah! GET NMOONES!!!
 
2020-07-13 7:20:16 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I dunno. Mueller could have stood up for the country when he had the chance. Instead he kind of pissed his pants.


He tried to keep as narrow a scope as possible to not find crines and he still found crimes
 
2020-07-13 7:20:31 PM  

mikalmd: He's still impeached ..


Moral victories are meaningless when the other side has real victories.
 
2020-07-13 7:23:17 PM  
Mueller had the chance to help things. He had the chance to nail perps to the wall and put the fear of God into all the evil sh*ts in this admin.

Instead, he went home with his tail between his legs.

F*ck him.
 
2020-07-13 7:24:21 PM  

Pin Fiften Clob: Robet


Tonight on the Robet Report!
eagle screech
 
2020-07-13 7:26:46 PM  
The article is pretty good at showing the clearly-defined limits Mueller's investigation was hamstrung by from the beginning; to the extent that if Israel, Turkey, or even Russia literally delivered things of value directly to Trump apart from this hacking in exchange for later policy promises, which likely DID happen, Mueller's team couldn't have MOVED to investigate it themselves or subpoena anything related to such a charge.
 
2020-07-13 7:27:13 PM  
the problem was that Muller was working under the DOJ, with their internal memo saying a pres can't be charged he couldn't even say the pres did x even if he did it.

Muller should have been under Congress like when Clinton was investigated.  In which the prosecutor was free of that crap.
 
2020-07-13 7:27:28 PM  
I stand by my suspicion that the investigation was not finished.

What happened was William Barr became AG and promptly shut it down, along with all of its spinoff investigations.

I also stand by my conceit that when this is all over Trump should be in jail but Barr should be hanged.
 
2020-07-13 7:33:03 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I dunno. Mueller could have stood up for the country when he had the chance. Instead he kind of pissed his pants.


It looked like he might for a few, brief moments.  Ultimately, he's still just a Republican, and there's only so much you can expect from someone who willfully associates with a party whose social policy fluctuates between bible humping and xenophobia, whose economic policy is based purely on fantasy, and who dream of big, strong authoritarian leaders to make them feel safe from all the things that terrify them because they are pants-shiatting cowards.
 
2020-07-13 7:33:11 PM  
Who would appoint an independent special council? Who enforces their decisions? You see the problem.

Not only does the political will have to exist, and currently it doesn't, there needs to be at least the desire for legitimacy or at least seeming legitimate. The GOP just doesn't care.

The difference between then and now is at the ballot box. They couldn't flagrantly get away with this kind of thing without getting voted out of office. Now they can marginalize and gerrymander and subvert the vote.
Political pressure got Nixon to create the EPA. Political pressure got a functionally independent investigation into Watergate.

I don't know if an overwhelming turnout will actually accomplish anything. I think we need an overwhelming turnout to have any chance to change things. But we need to change voting mechanisms first. Especially soft money.

Otherwise there's no chance for accountability at all. There's no way to exert political pressure. They've proven they won't police themselves or even allow the appearance of it.
 
2020-07-13 7:36:35 PM  
Mueller was a god damned coverup.   He's a company man, and his company is the GOP.
 
2020-07-13 7:36:46 PM  
Yet another farking thread where people cry that Mueller's investigation didn't end like that stupid farking Mueller Time youtube video when that was never going to farking happen. This shiat never gets old

/he did his job, and told Congress to do theirs
//the House ultimately did, the Senate did not
///it's getting pretty farking old
 
2020-07-13 7:37:57 PM  

Ishkur: I stand by my suspicion that the investigation was not finished.

What happened was William Barr became AG and promptly shut it down, along with all of its spinoff investigations.

I also stand by my conceit that when this is all over Trump should be in jail but Barr should be hanged.


Per TFA, it wasn't so much that it was shut down prematurely, but that Mueller never had the authority to pull on the investigative threads to see what unraveled. The scope of the inquiry was so limited that Mueller was hamstrung from the beginning.

And Mueller was not the man to raise a stink about it.
 
2020-07-13 7:38:59 PM  

KingBiefWhistle: Yet another farking thread where people cry that Mueller's investigation didn't end like that stupid farking Mueller Time youtube video when that was never going to farking happen. This shiat never gets old

/he did his job, and told Congress to do theirs
//the House ultimately did, the Senate did not
///it's getting pretty farking old


He could have been a lot more vocal especially as the written report was being suppressed
No I don't think it was deliberate at all but dammit he looked useless on the stand
 
2020-07-13 7:41:48 PM  
So stressful, going to listen to my favorite singer Robet Goulert just to unwind...
 
2020-07-13 7:42:08 PM  

jumac: the problem was that Muller was working under the DOJ, with their internal memo saying a pres can't be charged he couldn't even say the pres did x even if he did it.

Muller should have been under Congress like when Clinton was investigated.  In which the prosecutor was free of that crap.


The Office of the Special Prosecutors/Counsel has zigged and zagged a lot over the past 40 years in terms of scope and power.

After Watergate they concluded that the Indepdedent Prosecutor didn't have enough power to really investigate serious crimes, and no President should be able to just shut the investigation down like that Saturday Night Massacre style. So they beefed up the role and gave the newly cristened Special Prosecutor broad, sweeping powers that operated outside of the DOJ and could not be shut down by anyone. He could even overrule the President at times.

It didn't take long for this new Special Prosecutor to be weaponized, as the Republicans sent him on a 6 year witch hunt until he found something to impeach the President for (the original scope of the investigation -- a land deal that went south -- turned up nothing. But that was no reason to stop investigating anything and everything for no particular reason).

So in the early 00s they decided that the Special Prosecutor had too much power and needed to be nerfed somewhat. The new Office of the Special Counsel was created and it was under the jurisdiction of the DOJ. The President could not shut down an OSC investigation. But the AG could.

And so now here we are. They will probably look at this investigatory apparatus yet again, and see if they can't give the OSC enough power to do his job without interference, but not so much power that its rife for abuse and political hit jobs by the opposition.

It's a tricky balance. One they haven't really sorted out yet in three impeachments in 40 years.
 
2020-07-13 7:52:35 PM  
Not so much as "a cover-up" as a "hell yeah we did it now whadafugyou gonna do 'bout it?"
 
2020-07-13 7:55:44 PM  

Ishkur: jumac: the problem was that Muller was working under the DOJ, with their internal memo saying a pres can't be charged he couldn't even say the pres did x even if he did it.

Muller should have been under Congress like when Clinton was investigated.  In which the prosecutor was free of that crap.

The Office of the Special Prosecutors/Counsel has zigged and zagged a lot over the past 40 years in terms of scope and power.

After Watergate they concluded that the Indepdedent Prosecutor didn't have enough power to really investigate serious crimes, and no President should be able to just shut the investigation down like that Saturday Night Massacre style. So they beefed up the role and gave the newly cristened Special Prosecutor broad, sweeping powers that operated outside of the DOJ and could not be shut down by anyone. He could even overrule the President at times.

It didn't take long for this new Special Prosecutor to be weaponized, as the Republicans sent him on a 6 year witch hunt until he found something to impeach the President for (the original scope of the investigation -- a land deal that went south -- turned up nothing. But that was no reason to stop investigating anything and everything for no particular reason).

So in the early 00s they decided that the Special Prosecutor had too much power and needed to be nerfed somewhat. The new Office of the Special Counsel was created and it was under the jurisdiction of the DOJ. The President could not shut down an OSC investigation. But the AG could.

And so now here we are. They will probably look at this investigatory apparatus yet again, and see if they can't give the OSC enough power to do his job without interference, but not so much power that its rife for abuse and political hit jobs by the opposition.

It's a tricky balance. One they haven't really sorted out yet in three impeachments in 40 years.


The only way an independent office with the power it needs to have to deal with something like Trump can really WORK... is if the media landscape can reliably point out to the voting public exactly whether or not their charges are full of shiat.  Otherwise, any legitimate investigation can get soundblasted into meaninglessness, and any Starr-style witch hunt or Benghazi can be given faux hyperlegitimacy.

As long as something like Fox News is allowed to exist, the mechanisms to hold politicians accountable CAN'T work correctly, because something like a Republican Senate has all the public cover they need to just... completely ignore enforcing the law, as long as it benefits them.
 
2020-07-13 7:55:48 PM  
Is the House all finished investigating  Dear Cheeto?
 
2020-07-13 8:21:53 PM  
The real question is: how can someone so utterly ignorant, dumb, obtuse, illiterate, and moronic as Trump continually beat the rap, against adversaries who are infinitely smarter than he is?

Because if he can escape all these myriad attempts to stop him, so can others. Others who are much smarter than he is, and presumably do vastly more damage than even he did.
 
2020-07-13 8:22:19 PM  

Ishkur: I stand by my suspicion that the investigation was not finished.

What happened was William Barr became AG and promptly shut it down, along with all of its spinoff investigations.

I also stand by my conceit that when this is all over Trump should be in jail but Barr should be hanged.


Works for me!
 
2020-07-13 8:26:44 PM  
It's scary when people make excuses for Mueller's failure.  Because what you're really saying is that *crimes* are a political problem.


And that's "might makes right,"  you stupid farking assholes.    EVERYONE, from you, to me, to congressmen, to the President of the United States is supposed to be accountable to the law  NOT THE FARKING POPULARITY CONTEST WE CALL ELECTIONS.


so fark yourself.
 
2020-07-13 8:29:52 PM  

KingBiefWhistle: Yet another farking thread where people cry that Mueller's investigation didn't end like that stupid farking Mueller Time youtube video when that was never going to farking happen. This shiat never gets old

/he did his job, and told Congress to do theirs
//the House ultimately did, the Senate did not
///it's getting pretty farking old


The house did not do its job regarding the mueller report. Impeachment was about a completely unrelated issue.
 
2020-07-13 8:32:14 PM  

Pin Fiften Clob: Robet


It alllmost like a Mass accent.
 
2020-07-13 8:53:59 PM  
Mueller organized and drove a thorough investigation, and produced a damning report with multiple indictments.  The House decided to just focus on the election and knew that the Senate would ignore evidence, and with Barr as Trump's consigliere, there was no legal farking thing that Mueller could do to change the outcomes or even demand a closer review of his report. This was not Mueller's failure, it was a failure of the GOP Senate.   They were presented with damning and irrefutable evidence and they clung to a lie.
 
2020-07-13 11:43:24 PM  

BlastYoBoots: Ishkur: jumac: the problem was that Muller was working under the DOJ, with their internal memo saying a pres can't be charged he couldn't even say the pres did x even if he did it.

Muller should have been under Congress like when Clinton was investigated.  In which the prosecutor was free of that crap.

The Office of the Special Prosecutors/Counsel has zigged and zagged a lot over the past 40 years in terms of scope and power.

After Watergate they concluded that the Indepdedent Prosecutor didn't have enough power to really investigate serious crimes, and no President should be able to just shut the investigation down like that Saturday Night Massacre style. So they beefed up the role and gave the newly cristened Special Prosecutor broad, sweeping powers that operated outside of the DOJ and could not be shut down by anyone. He could even overrule the President at times.

It didn't take long for this new Special Prosecutor to be weaponized, as the Republicans sent him on a 6 year witch hunt until he found something to impeach the President for (the original scope of the investigation -- a land deal that went south -- turned up nothing. But that was no reason to stop investigating anything and everything for no particular reason).

So in the early 00s they decided that the Special Prosecutor had too much power and needed to be nerfed somewhat. The new Office of the Special Counsel was created and it was under the jurisdiction of the DOJ. The President could not shut down an OSC investigation. But the AG could.

And so now here we are. They will probably look at this investigatory apparatus yet again, and see if they can't give the OSC enough power to do his job without interference, but not so much power that its rife for abuse and political hit jobs by the opposition.

It's a tricky balance. One they haven't really sorted out yet in three impeachments in 40 years.

The only way an independent office with the power it needs to have to deal with something like Trump can really WORK... is if the media landscape can reliably point out to the voting public exactly whether or not their charges are full of shiat. Otherwise, any legitimate investigation can get soundblasted into meaninglessness, and any Starr-style witch hunt or Benghazi can be given faux hyperlegitimacy.

As long as something like Fox News is allowed to exist, the mechanisms to hold politicians accountable CAN'T work correctly, because something like a Republican Senate has all the public cover they need to just... completely ignore enforcing the law, as long as it benefits them.

Never forget: Roger Ailes created Fox News for that very reason. One of the selling points he used to convince the GOP to go along with it was that if something like it had existed in the early 1970s, Nixon wouldn't've had to've resigned and the Watergate investigation would've been shouted down in the public consciousness.
 
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