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(Law and Crime)   The latest effort by victims' family to stop the execution of the white supremacist who murdered their relatives in a plot to start a race war: COVID-19 makes it too dangerous to witness the execution   (lawandcrime.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Law, Appeal, Supreme Court of the United States, Capital punishment, Supreme court, Appellate court, federal appeals court, mother Earlene Branch Peterson  
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1536 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jul 2020 at 1:29 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-07-13 10:16:24 AM  
You can watch his doom from another room using Zoom.   As the day of execution looms, they're preparing his tomb and he's got an feeling of gloom, while the sentries wait in the guardroom.
 
2020-07-13 10:23:52 AM  

dittybopper: You can watch his doom from another room using Zoom.   As the day of execution looms, they're preparing his tomb and he's got an feeling of gloom, while the sentries wait in the guardroom.


Burma Shave
 
2020-07-13 10:25:48 AM  
I am opposed to the death penalty as an institution, but I have to say I don't think they are on very solid legal ground with their argument.  The incorporation argument was a nice angle, but ultimately it certainly doesn't seem like the plaintiffs even have standing to seek an injunction here.
 
2020-07-13 10:35:57 AM  
Leaving aside my opposition to the death penalty for a moment, I have to disagree with the logic of opposing his sentence.

They argue he should have to live his whole life with the guilt and pain like she did.

But the white supremacist isn't feeling guilt. And he'd no doubt be a white power soldier inside general population.

Stick him in a SHU facility and leave him to rot for life by himself.
 
2020-07-13 11:57:12 AM  
 
2020-07-13 1:32:37 PM  
Has Trump commuted his sentence yet?
 
2020-07-13 1:33:57 PM  
It was futile and I'm sure they knew it. It matters little, they made a moral statement and caused the court a moderate inconvenience.  Best you can do here nowadays.
 
2020-07-13 1:35:21 PM  
Reminder that Barr justified these executions because the families of the victims deserve justice that they are specifically requesting not happen.
 
2020-07-13 1:36:36 PM  
Why do they want to stop it? We're soooo close to killing our way to peace!
 
2020-07-13 1:37:32 PM  
I don't want him executed either.  But I doubt my ideal end state coincides with that of these people.
 
2020-07-13 1:40:01 PM  
Both defendants, who were white supremacists, were convicted of committing the murders for money to fund the creation of a new whites-only country.

Seems like the entirety of anglo history is "Our country isn't pure enough, so we gotta start another one and kill anyone in our way."
 
2020-07-13 1:40:41 PM  
OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.
 
2020-07-13 1:41:06 PM  
This is the proof that people do not want "justice" they want revenge.

"I believe putting Daniel Lee to death is not the answer," she said. "It's an easy way out. He should have to live through this. Like I did."


See that, that person is not seeking to make thew world safer, and they are not seeking that a dangerous person is removed from being dangerous to us ever again, WHILE WE KEEP THEM FED AND HOUSED AND IGNORE CHILDREN SLEEPING IN CARS.

They are literately seeking to make this other human have to sufferer more, that is all they want, this is all it is about.

As long as we see it as PUNISH THEM, and not PROTECT OURSELVES, then this is all we can have, just poke their eye out cause it makes us feel better ot see them have to suffer right we all get happy joy joy feelings when we get to see another human be made to suffer we like that right?Feels all good and righteous when we  get to feel good knowing they are made to suffer cause they enjoyed someone else's suffering so now we can enjoy their suffering now right?
 
2020-07-13 1:49:40 PM  

Grungehamster: Reminder that Barr justified these executions because the families of the victims deserve justice that they are specifically requesting not happen.


He's also this arch-Catholic who preens and struts to Catholic media constantly, and yes the official church teaching on capital punishment says "again' it", but none of that matters because principles and morals aren't super important anyway.
 
2020-07-13 1:51:14 PM  

dittybopper: You can watch his doom from another room using Zoom.   As the day of execution looms, they're preparing his tomb and he's got an feeling of gloom, while the sentries wait in the guardroom.


*random teen in a unicorn mask has entered the chat*
 
2020-07-13 1:51:46 PM  
My main objection to the federal death penalty is that there is no option to use a tank of ravenous piranha on murderous white supremacists.
 
2020-07-13 1:53:43 PM  

Grungehamster: Reminder that Barr justified these executions because the families of the victims deserve justice that they are specifically requesting not happen.


The victim and survivors are not important to the process.  The state is the party that seeks justice against the murderer.  English law did not punish murder for the killing of another person.  It sought punishment because that murder deprived the king of the fruits of the victim's labor.  It was theft.  Not theft against the victim, but the king.  Since American law springs from English, the same basic idea holds.  You are not punished for killing another person because it deprives them of life, nor their relatives of their companionship.  You are punished because the state is deprived of the fruit of the deceased's labor.  Their survivors mean jack shiat in that.  Hell, except as the vehicle for taxes, the victim doesn't even matter.  It is cold, it is bloodless, and it is mercenary - but letting the survivors have any input into the process is superfluous at best - they ultimately have no business in the process.  Morally, ethically, spiritually, psychologically, they are vitally important - legally, they are less than nothing.
 
2020-07-13 2:24:20 PM  

imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.


You're not 100% opposed to the death penalty. That's ok, just stop lying to yourself and others about it.
 
2020-07-13 2:32:22 PM  

Russ1642: imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.

You're not 100% opposed to the death penalty. That's ok, just stop lying to yourself and others about it.


I think one can consistently believe the death penalty is a flawed, unjust mechanism that should be abolished and also feel that some bastards deserve to die.  But, ultimately, while it is human nature to feel the need for vengeance for hideous crimes, the state should not be in the business of providing vengeance or killing as an element of criminal justice.
 
2020-07-13 2:39:30 PM  

Nabb1: Russ1642: imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.

You're not 100% opposed to the death penalty. That's ok, just stop lying to yourself and others about it.

I think one can consistently believe the death penalty is a flawed, unjust mechanism that should be abolished and also feel that some bastards deserve to die.  But, ultimately, while it is human nature to feel the need for vengeance for hideous crimes, the state should not be in the business of providing vengeance or killing as an element of criminal justice.


This, and thank you. I do not support the death penalty in any way. Even if you were to remove the emotional elements of the argument, there's still too many opportunities for error and there is no way to undo death when (not if) we get it wrong. So, do I support this dude's state-sanctioned murder? Hell no. Do I want this dude to suffer cruelly while dying? Also hell no. Is the world a better place without him in it? Probably, but it shouldn't be up to me to decide that.
 
2020-07-13 2:40:48 PM  
I'm against capital punishment period - it accomplishes nothing that a life sentence does not, and if you fark up, you can let someone out of jail with a pile of money. You can't resurrect the dead guy.

That said, this is an incredibly stupid argument, and there's no reason they can't just use a camera feed.
 
2020-07-13 2:58:30 PM  

imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.


Are you seriously asking if the killer was still free when he was convicted and sentenced to death?
 
2020-07-13 2:58:53 PM  

wejash: Leaving aside my opposition to the death penalty for a moment, I have to disagree with the logic of opposing his sentence.

They argue he should have to live his whole life with the guilt and pain like she did.

But the white supremacist isn't feeling guilt. And he'd no doubt be a white power soldier inside general population.

Stick him in a SHU facility and leave him to rot for life by himself.


Lock him in a windowless room and come back in a week to pick up the body.

Or if you're really sadistic leave a pitcher of water and come back in three or four extra days.
 
2020-07-13 3:13:58 PM  
(o)(   o)
 
2020-07-13 3:53:54 PM  

Nabb1: Russ1642: imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.

You're not 100% opposed to the death penalty. That's ok, just stop lying to yourself and others about it.

I think one can consistently believe the death penalty is a flawed, unjust mechanism that should be abolished and also feel that some bastards deserve to die.  But, ultimately, while it is human nature to feel the need for vengeance for hideous crimes, the state should not be in the business of providing vengeance or killing as an element of criminal justice.


If there's a continuum from 0% (for the death penalty) and 100% (absolutely against the death penalty) your philosophy is somewhere in between, obviously up there though. It's just stupid to say you're 100% against the death penalty but fark that guy because the crime is heinous. Many of the people on death row would qualify for exemption from your hatred of the death penalty.
 
2020-07-13 4:15:25 PM  
53 and 28??!?

Totes gross.
 
2020-07-13 5:22:39 PM  

croesius: We're soooo close to killing our way to peace!


Just like farking for chastity.
 
2020-07-13 6:55:49 PM  
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2020-07-13 7:09:07 PM  

Nabb1: Russ1642: imapirate: OK, so I am 100% anti-death penalty. That said, this monster killed an innocent 8yo little girl, so I won't be losing any sleep over him not existing anymore. That said, was he still killing at the time of his death warrant being issued? Because it seems to me he was locked down, unable to cause much of a fuss, in a maximum security federal prison.

Blood for the blood god, I know.

You're not 100% opposed to the death penalty. That's ok, just stop lying to yourself and others about it.

I think one can consistently believe the death penalty is a flawed, unjust mechanism that should be abolished and also feel that some bastards deserve to die.  But, ultimately, while it is human nature to feel the need for vengeance for hideous crimes, the state should not be in the business of providing vengeance or killing as an element of criminal justice.


The arguments I always fall back on are practical:

1. It ends up being more expensive to execute someone than to keep them locked up for life, and
B. You can't un-execute someone if they turn out innocent later on.

I could make moral appeals about the nature of justice.  I could say that a punitive system doesn't stop crime, so it says a lot about us as a nation that we choose that system.  But I honestly think the pragmatic approach should be enough.  Don't waste money on killing someone who you might need alive later.
 
2020-07-13 9:38:33 PM  

Grungehamster: Reminder that Barr justified these executions because the families of the victims deserve justice that they are specifically requesting not happen.


In Anglo-Saxon and Napoleonic jurisprudence, the state takes the place of the victim and their family in court.  This was done because the decision to sentence or forgive was often left to the victims, who might or might not have been intimidated.  

Also, the relatives of the deceased are not the only victims here.  Every person who knew and loved, or at least liked the deceased lost a friend or relation.  Every African-American got one more reason to be afraid.  Any psychic security enjoyed by the honest members of the community, whatever their color, where the murder took place took a hit.  If the victim was employed, his employer now has to hire his replacement, which is at least inconvenient and maybe expensive.  Any organization or person outside the family who enjoyed the victim's charity or service lost that.  

Now, it is laudable if the state demands restitution to the victim as part of the sentence.  

But it would be cruel to deny those bereft of a loved one the chance to evangelize or merely to virtue signal.  All victims must mourn in their own way.  Forgiveness may bring closure and healing to the victim.  

But society demands its own closure and healing as well, whether it be a life sentence without parole or the death penalty.  Let the penalty be decided by laws enacted by the duly-elected representatives of the people, the judge and the jury acting within the laws.
 
2020-07-14 1:31:43 AM  

Yamaneko2: But society demands its own closure and healing as well, whether it be a life sentence without parole or the death penalty.  Let the penalty be decided by laws enacted by the duly-elected representatives of the people, the judge and the jury acting within the laws.


Things like slavery were legal, and enacted by the duly-elected representatives of the people. 

I'm just saying that maybe they shouldn't have the power of life and death?
 
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