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(The News International)   The Russo Brothers reaction to Anthony Mackie calling Marvel films 'whitewashed'? Yeah....he's right   (thenews.com.pk) divider line
    More: Followup, Film, Film director, Anthony Russo, amazing actor, Film crew, Anthony Mackie's earlier criticism, episode of Variety, Marvel Cinematic Universe  
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2313 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jul 2020 at 3:50 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-11 1:35:43 PM  
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Morgan Russo

 
2020-07-11 4:15:54 PM  
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2020-07-11 4:22:58 PM  
Before i clicked I thought he it was going to be about a lck of characters.  But the behind the scenes all white? WTF?

As a kid the Falcon was one of my favs. Like Bats he was just a man. But there he was, kicking ass side by side with Captain  America & danged if he wasn't holding his own! Way easier for little me to relate to.
 
2020-07-11 4:23:54 PM  
Swerve!
 
2020-07-11 4:27:04 PM  

lovely_filth: Before i clicked I thought he it was going to be about a lck of characters.  But the behind the scenes all white? WTF?

It's kind of everything really. They've still only had (I believe) 3 of the 20+ movies that weren't written exclusively by white men.Do see a lot of foreign-y names in he special effects dept though, so there's that at least
 
2020-07-11 4:44:25 PM  

lovely_filth: Before i clicked I thought he it was going to be about a lck of characters.  But the behind the scenes all white? WTF?

As a kid the Falcon was one of my favs. Like Bats he was just a man. But there he was, kicking ass side by side with Captain  America & danged if he wasn't holding his own! Way easier for little me to relate to.


Not exactly just a man.  He's like Aquaman but with birds instead of fish. Even from the beginning he could talk with Redwing.
 
2020-07-11 4:44:37 PM  
"It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

Fark user imageView Full Size


He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-11 4:46:14 PM  
Everything is fault of Russos according to libs
 
2020-07-11 4:57:34 PM  
time to get rid of all the white people
 
2020-07-11 5:06:51 PM  
Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.
 
2020-07-11 5:14:44 PM  

grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.


I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.
 
2020-07-11 5:19:52 PM  
The market is inherently biased. Intrinsically biased.
Money and how much of it can be made as profit margin. That is the basis of the bias.

If the people investing a pile of cash to make a film, are influenced by resource distribution demographics, that is EXPECTED. and if you want the free market to be profit seeking free, then necessary that some demographics of people are just outright ignored and not have products made for.

If you want the market to have to be an ideal image of your desired social order, that's not a free market at all.
And i'd probably throw my hat in that ring with you too.
A free market is just the place people can freely race to their profits while ignoring the very concept of morality.

All those pretty words in that article that say, do more, wont' see jack shat happen in response to that idea, just in response to perceived actual profits.
 
2020-07-11 5:21:26 PM  
I agree with the criticism, but I wonder if that's actual direct not hiring qualified black people racism or the "soft" racism of Black folks never having the opportunity to go into the various film production fields so there's not a proportional amount of people to even hire.

The characters being predominantly white isn't cool either, but it's also born out of these characters being several decades old, aka coming from a more racist time. They've got the cachet and recognition of history with ingrained lucrative fandoms while POC characters just don't because they are comparatively new.
 
2020-07-11 5:33:11 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.


That and there's also the wizened asian mystic stereotype.

I think they would have done better if they had cast an asian actor as Dr. Strange, while still casting Swinton as the Ancient One. I mean that still bangs into the asian doctor stereotypes, but that's better than the mystic one.

That's not to take anything from Brumbledriecht Cornstarch. He did a fine job.
 
2020-07-11 5:33:14 PM  
Is it intentional racism or just how things end up? I mean, it's not like Robert Downey, Jr. can have a black stuntman.

Oh, wait...

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2020-07-11 5:44:19 PM  

Flappyhead: Swerve!


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-11 5:49:45 PM  

Boudyro: I agree with the criticism, but I wonder if that's actual direct not hiring qualified black people racism or the "soft" racism of Black folks never having the opportunity to go into the various film production fields so there's not a proportional amount of people to even hire.

The characters being predominantly white isn't cool either, but it's also born out of these characters being several decades old, aka coming from a more racist time. They've got the cachet and recognition of history with ingrained lucrative fandoms while POC characters just don't because they are comparatively new.


Yeah, but there's also very clearly a market for POC characters, whether they have decades of background or not. Miles Morales has been well received, despite his character only being around for nine years. Kamala Khan would probably slay at the box office. I mean, I'm sure there are people who would care if Sojourner Mullein was in the next Green Lantern instead of Hal Jordan, but these movies have become mainstream enough that I'm not sure those people would really dramatically affect its box office.
 
2020-07-11 5:58:05 PM  

Boudyro: Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.

That and there's also the wizened asian mystic stereotype.

I think they would have done better if they had cast an asian actor as Dr. Strange, while still casting Swinton as the Ancient One. I mean that still bangs into the asian doctor stereotypes, but that's better than the mystic one.

That's not to take anything from Brumbledriecht Cornstarch. He did a fine job.


Yeah, Dr. Strange and Iron Fist both have problematic origins. Rich white guy shows up in Asia and winds up being better than them in their own mystic art. Batman too. Wolverine at least actually adapted and ultimately respected the local culture, though everybody in Japan being either Ninja or Yakuza is a bit like everybody in America being a cowboy or in the mob.
 
2020-07-11 5:58:56 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.


Easily solved just call him Chinese or not specify his nationality beyond Asian saying  he is enlightened beyond the need for artificial identifiers
 
2020-07-11 6:05:14 PM  

karl2025: I mean, I'm sure there are people who would care if Sojourner Mullein was in the next Green Lantern instead of Hal Jordan...


Darn right people would complain. We want John Stewart. He was always the best Lantern.

/and NO Ch'p!
 
2020-07-11 6:05:21 PM  

Boudyro: Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.

That and there's also the wizened asian mystic stereotype.

I think they would have done better if they had cast an asian actor as Dr. Strange, while still casting Swinton as the Ancient One. I mean that still bangs into the asian doctor stereotypes, but that's better than the mystic one.

That's not to take anything from Brumbledriecht Cornstarch. He did a fine job.


That would not have sat any better for me, it's always bothered me that the comics have taken the attitude its okay to change the ethnicity of existing characters to achieve greater diversity rather than develop and introduce new characters and support them adequately with marketing to get them established.

The multiple version of a character trope ala The Spiderverse doesn't set that well with me either as it smacks of being unwilling to take a creative risk for financial reasons .     It's fine for an event or one off shattered multiverse thing but for me it just breeds confusion. Not criticizing the writing or art just the concept and the fact it ever got traction.
 
2020-07-11 6:09:08 PM  
"Hey everyone, we're filming a new Avengers movie with all black heroes and all black crew, in Florida.  So get down here; no need for masks.  Everyone has been tested and cleared.  Not to mention, Florida is virtually COVID-free.  Hurry, filming starts next week!"

/don't trust Whitey
 
2020-07-11 6:11:08 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: "It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

[Fark user image image 425x222]

He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

[Fark user image image 425x239]


How is that statement false? Did Gui DaSilva or any other POC perform stunts in the seven Marvel movies that Anthony Mackie did?
 
2020-07-11 6:21:01 PM  

Boudyro: I agree with the criticism, but I wonder if that's actual direct not hiring qualified black people racism or the "soft" racism of Black folks never having the opportunity to go into the various film production fields so there's not a proportional amount of people to even hire.


No, they're definitely there, trying to break into the business like everybody else. The Good Place: The Podcast addresses this somewhat when they talk about Michael Schur getting more women and POC in higher positions like directing. The crews slowly became more diverse, and the guys in charge were blown away by how wrong their perceptions were.
 
2020-07-11 6:22:53 PM  

Noah_Tall: lovely_filth: Before i clicked I thought he it was going to be about a lck of characters.  But the behind the scenes all white? WTF?

As a kid the Falcon was one of my favs. Like Bats he was just a man. But there he was, kicking ass side by side with Captain  America & danged if he wasn't holding his own! Way easier for little me to relate to.

Not exactly just a man.  He's like Aquaman but with birds instead of fish. Even from the beginning he could talk with Redwing.


I'm with the previous guy on how good of a character in general Sam Wilson is. I hope the new show does him justice. I was excited for his Cap America run but man, bad luck with the arcs/writing. He ended up getting some of the C-listers on the villain side and story wasn't that good for his time. I mean seriously, you have all of Sam's history and what it means for the shield and you go "let's do a Were-Cap story" Current writer is much better, wish he had a shot with Sam as Cap.
 
2020-07-11 6:26:26 PM  

Mr Tarantula: Boudyro: I agree with the criticism, but I wonder if that's actual direct not hiring qualified black people racism or the "soft" racism of Black folks never having the opportunity to go into the various film production fields so there's not a proportional amount of people to even hire.

No, they're definitely there, trying to break into the business like everybody else. The Good Place: The Podcast addresses this somewhat when they talk about Michael Schur getting more women and POC in higher positions like directing. The crews slowly became more diverse, and the guys in charge were blown away by how wrong their perceptions were.


That's a good followup example though with breaking in. The interest is there, but it could be like the NFL. POC are getting positions but they aren't getting the positions that translate to moving up the system (like the NFL not getting POC into QB coach positions so no way to move up to OC)
 
2020-07-11 6:30:23 PM  
You hire the best people for the job. I doubt the behind-the-scenes crew applicants provide a head shot so their race can be predetermined. "What have you previously worked on? Okay, that looks good, you're hired."
 
2020-07-11 6:31:12 PM  

grimlock1972: Boudyro: Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.

That and there's also the wizened asian mystic stereotype.

I think they would have done better if they had cast an asian actor as Dr. Strange, while still casting Swinton as the Ancient One. I mean that still bangs into the asian doctor stereotypes, but that's better than the mystic one.

That's not to take anything from Brumbledriecht Cornstarch. He did a fine job.

That would not have sat any better for me, it's always bothered me that the comics have taken the attitude its okay to change the ethnicity of existing characters to achieve greater diversity rather than develop and introduce new characters and support them adequately with marketing to get them established.

The multiple version of a character trope ala The Spiderverse doesn't set that well with me either as it smacks of being unwilling to take a creative risk for financial reasons .     It's fine for an event or one off shattered multiverse thing but for me it just breeds confusion. Not criticizing the writing or art just the concept and the fact it ever got traction.


It makes it not strictly true the "we don't want to take anything away" to create diversity. "What if Batman was black?" Is cool when it leads to Black Panther. Not a temporary replacement that gets shoved in the back of the bus the moment the fans tire of it.
 
2020-07-11 6:51:06 PM  
He was complaining about the people in the production staff being white?!? Where tf did he work the last 20 years, in bizarro black Hollywood?
 
2020-07-11 6:52:54 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: "It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

[Fark user image 425x222]

He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

[Fark user image 425x239]


Mackie was not in Guardians 2
 
2020-07-11 7:32:16 PM  

PvtStash: The market is inherently biased. Intrinsically biased.
Money and how much of it can be made as profit margin. That is the basis of the bias.

If the people investing a pile of cash to make a film, are influenced by resource distribution demographics, that is EXPECTED. and if you want the free market to be profit seeking free, then necessary that some demographics of people are just outright ignored and not have products made for.

If you want the market to have to be an ideal image of your desired social order, that's not a free market at all.
And i'd probably throw my hat in that ring with you too.
A free market is just the place people can freely race to their profits while ignoring the very concept of morality.

All those pretty words in that article that say, do more, wont' see jack shat happen in response to that idea, just in response to perceived actual profits.


And how in the world is it more profitable to hire white people over people of color?
 
2020-07-11 7:33:24 PM  

Fano: grimlock1972: Boudyro: Devil's Advocaat: grimlock1972: Of course they are, one needs look no further then how the handled The ancient one in the Doctor Strange film.   Changed him from a wizened asian man to a bald irish woman and for no good reason IMO.    and No the comic lacking many female characters is not a valid reason.

I can't imagine why Disney felt the need to recast a Tibetan character.

That and there's also the wizened asian mystic stereotype.

I think they would have done better if they had cast an asian actor as Dr. Strange, while still casting Swinton as the Ancient One. I mean that still bangs into the asian doctor stereotypes, but that's better than the mystic one.

That's not to take anything from Brumbledriecht Cornstarch. He did a fine job.

That would not have sat any better for me, it's always bothered me that the comics have taken the attitude its okay to change the ethnicity of existing characters to achieve greater diversity rather than develop and introduce new characters and support them adequately with marketing to get them established.

The multiple version of a character trope ala The Spiderverse doesn't set that well with me either as it smacks of being unwilling to take a creative risk for financial reasons .     It's fine for an event or one off shattered multiverse thing but for me it just breeds confusion. Not criticizing the writing or art just the concept and the fact it ever got traction.

It makes it not strictly true the "we don't want to take anything away" to create diversity. "What if Batman was black?" Is cool when it leads to Black Panther. Not a temporary replacement that gets shoved in the back of the bus the moment the fans tire of it.


This has nothing at all to do with the ethnicity of the writers, the directors, the camera operators, the gaffers, the stunt people, or all the other folks Mackie was talking about.
 
2020-07-11 7:59:05 PM  
<nerds.jpg>
 
2020-07-11 8:12:12 PM  
I don't know if whitewash is the right word but tge point stands.
 
2020-07-11 8:18:15 PM  

grimlock1972: Changed him from a wizened asian man...


Sterotype...a pretty bad one too.
 
2020-07-11 8:33:11 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: "It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

[Fark user image 425x222]

He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

[Fark user image 425x239]


you know when I first saw this scene i thought it was kelsey grammar.
 
2020-07-11 8:54:35 PM  
I'll be interested to see how they handle the "Falcon is the new Captain America" angle. I'm hoping it just means a costume repaint and he keeps the wings, because come on, he's got wings. Who gives up having wings?
 
2020-07-11 8:55:58 PM  
And the Madea film are blackwashed. Move the fark on.
 
2020-07-11 9:09:47 PM  

Mikey1969: And the Madea film are blackwashed. Move the fark on.


You're not wrong, but you can't say that.
 
2020-07-11 9:15:55 PM  
Is there not a better way to refer to people who aren't "white" than with POC or person of color?
 
2020-07-11 9:18:55 PM  
grimlock1972:That would not have sat any better for me, it's always bothered me that the comics have taken the attitude its okay to change the ethnicity of existing characters to achieve greater diversity rather than develop and introduce new characters and support them adequately with marketing to get them established.

I disagree with that line of thinking for a couple of reasons. One, the known and popular characters were all created at a time when comics were made by and for a certain demographic. So to take a position that they must always be portrayed in movies and tv as they were in the comics essentially locks in the prejudice that gave birth to them.

The second part, develop new characters and give them proper support, should be done anyways, even if movies weren't being made of them. Giving other people a chance to take part in the comic book world shouldn't be done for the sole reason of creating acting jobs for minorities, it should be done because it's the right thing to do. The process of creating and building new characters that are fit to anchor movies takes time. There's no reason women and minorities should have to wait to be involved when it's possible to simply cast them as already established characters.

I'd just suggest to filmmakers that they put some thought when they re-imagine the character. If you cast a white woman to play what was a white male character in the comics, that's fine. You lose a white male character, but you have tons of those to spare. You gain a female character which helps increase diversity. The thoughtless way to do it would be if you have an Asian male character, of which you don't have many to begin with, then cast a white female in the role. Yes you gain a female for diversity but you undercut that by losing the Asian male who also contributed to diversity.

I think that's what that actor was getting at. If he's taking part in these movies and mostly all he sees are white people working on the movies, it's clear that NO effort is being made to include anyone else. That gets reflected in the movie characters. How many MCU movies were made before Black Panther or Captain Marvel got a shot at their own movie?
 
2020-07-11 9:29:19 PM  

Mikey1969: And the Madea film are blackwashed. Move the fark on.


Blackwashing would be casting black actors in non-black roles.
Madea films seem accurately cast to me.
 
2020-07-11 11:02:17 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-11 11:09:00 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: Blackwashing would be casting black actors in non-black roles.
Madea films seem accurately cast to me.


Doesn't it refer to the crew, not just the cast?
 
2020-07-11 11:23:28 PM  
Ummmm. Isn't his own stunt double is black.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1109012​0​9559583778/
 
2020-07-12 1:06:05 AM  
This doesn't necessarily mean that the industry is racist or oppressive. There are tons of industries that have huge disparities in the ethnicities and genders represented. The problem more than likely are the hurdles getting to the point to even consider the film industry as a viable path for people of color. Most of our problems can be fixed with going to the source and fixing our education system to properly support and devote resources necessary for all students to have the same chances and understand their options. It saddens me that people think their only options are limited quite simply because of their race.

You want to fix crime? Fix education.
You want to fix institutional racism? Fix education.

I think it is an absolute crock of bullshiat that all public schools are not given the same resources divvied up. Poor schools stay poor, continue to produce subpar results, and the cycle continues. Every once and a while, someone succeeds in light of all the shiat they put up with to get there and people just say "See! You can make it also if you just try!" Yeah, try to do that when you have no parental support (or in some cases the opposite), a broken family, don't know when you are going to eat, have next to healthcare, and judge getting up and getting to school is more of a challenge than any other student's entire school year.
 
2020-07-12 1:08:49 AM  

Noah_Tall: lovely_filth: Before i clicked I thought he it was going to be about a lck of characters.  But the behind the scenes all white? WTF?

As a kid the Falcon was one of my favs. Like Bats he was just a man. But there he was, kicking ass side by side with Captain  America & danged if he wasn't holding his own! Way easier for little me to relate to.

Not exactly just a man.  He's like Aquaman but with birds instead of fish. Even from the beginning he could talk with Redwing.


Totally forgot that part. Odd.
 
2020-07-12 1:54:27 AM  

Bad Luck Schleprock: You hire the best people for the job. I doubt the behind-the-scenes crew applicants provide a head shot so their race can be predetermined. "What have you previously worked on? Okay, that looks good, you're hired."


Kevin Feige had to threaten to resign of they did not oust Perlmutter, because the Trumpian director of Marvel actually refused to do movies that were not about straight white Christian males. I mean, it was a real policy of him.

When you have to get rid of the CEO just to do a Black Panther movie, it's not that much of a stretch to think that racial discrimination wasn't limited to actors, directors and subject matters
 
2020-07-12 3:02:20 AM  

Straight Outta Hate: Devil's Advocaat: "It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

[Fark user image 425x222]

He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

[Fark user image 425x239]

Mackie was not in Guardians 2


I realise that. The point I was making is that if you're in one MCU film as a stunt performer, you're likely in more than one.

He's been in 7 total and shared a set with Mackie on 3 of them - Winter Soldier, Civil War, and Endgame.

The reason I posted the shot of GotG2 is that he talks about the making of that scene with the Corridor Crew guys and the camera is focused on his face in that shot.

He also spoke about how they filmed the scene in Civil War where Cap is chasing Black Panther through the tunnel at superhuman speed - spoiler alert , they're both running on a carpet ( removed in post ) that's being pulled by a car driving at 40mph.

He's also one of the Hydra security guys in the elevator scene in Winter Soldier, but the cutting is so quick and the focus is squarely on Cap so it's difficult to tell it's him.
 
2020-07-12 3:12:57 AM  

Get Rich or Try Dyin': Devil's Advocaat: "It really bothered me that I've done seven Marvel movies where every producer, every director, every stunt person, every costume designer, every PA, every single person has been white."

He might be right when it comes to directors and producers, but I know from watching the Corridor Crew guys that this simply isn't true.

The MCU films have plenty of POC stunt performers, notably Gui DaSilva-Greene who was in the Black Panther suit in Civil War...

[Fark user image image 425x222]

He was also one of the Ravagers that Rocket Raccoon launched into the air in Guardians 2.

[Fark user image image 425x239]

How is that statement false? Did Gui DaSilva or any other POC perform stunts in the seven Marvel movies that Anthony Mackie did?


Mackie was in Civil War. They were also both in Endgame and Winter Soldier.

And, as MrFrode linked to above, Mackie's own stunt double was Aaron Toney.

im.indiatimes.inView Full Size


Imagine having a work colleague who makes 10x what you do telling the press that you don't exist.
 
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