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(The Atlantic)   Christian pastor laments election of Donald Trump to POTUS: "Hollywood and the media created a decidedly unattractive stereotype of Christians... I now realize that stereotype is more true than I ever knew"   (theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Evangelicalism, evangelical supporters of President Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Christian right, Conservative Christianity, few of Trump, social conservatives, pro-life movement  
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2725 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jul 2020 at 11:35 AM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-10 10:32:57 AM  
No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...
 
2020-07-10 11:02:52 AM  
My hunch is that at the beginning of this Faustian bargain, most evangelicals didn't imagine it would come to this, with them defending the indefensible, tarnishing their reputations, and doing incalculable damage to their causes.

Evangelical or not, the SCOTUS and the other Federal Courts were often *the* reason that people voted for Trump. They imagined that Trump would be surrounded by people that could restrain his baser impulses and he would become "Presidential." They objectively didn't care that he was an unrepentant boor. They also don't understand how Federal Courts work. They complain about "activist judges," when in fact, that's what they want.

I know this firsthand, from pastors around the country who have talked about the catastrophic effects of the unholy alliance between evangelicals and Donald Trump. One pastor of a large church on the Pacific Coast told me: "There are many reasons why young people are turning away from the Church, but my observation is, Trump has vastly accelerated that trend. He's put it into hyperdrive."

Yep. Congratulations, "Christians." You played yourselves.

/Presbyterian.
 
2020-07-10 11:08:41 AM  

Unobtanium: My hunch is that at the beginning of this Faustian bargain, most evangelicals didn't imagine it would come to this, with them defending the indefensible, tarnishing their reputations, and doing incalculable damage to their causes.

Evangelical or not, the SCOTUS and the other Federal Courts were often *the* reason that people voted for Trump. They imagined that Trump would be surrounded by people that could restrain his baser impulses and he would become "Presidential." They objectively didn't care that he was an unrepentant boor. They also don't understand how Federal Courts work. They complain about "activist judges," when in fact, that's what they want.

I know this firsthand, from pastors around the country who have talked about the catastrophic effects of the unholy alliance between evangelicals and Donald Trump. One pastor of a large church on the Pacific Coast told me: "There are many reasons why young people are turning away from the Church, but my observation is, Trump has vastly accelerated that trend. He's put it into hyperdrive."

Yep. Congratulations, "Christians." You played yourselves.

/Presbyterian.


...no, they really have no excuse.  They had plenty of other choices in Cruz, Rubio, even Mike farking Huckabee.

But no, instead of the good ol' southern boys, these people who ceaselessly complain about the Hollywood elite and the limousine libruls chose the (alleged) billionaire New Yorker.

This is totally on them.
 
2020-07-10 11:10:43 AM  

cretinbob: No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...


...they merely revealed it.

It kind of pisses me off that we have examples in literature and popular culture warning us of a president like Trump, but he got elected anyway. We have been warned so many times and yet, we are still here.
 
2020-07-10 11:14:32 AM  
If you click on the link for "issues evangelicals care the most about," you get a link about opinions on gay and lesbian rights.

That is the "set" for Trump's spike--that evangelicals are more obsessed with denying full rights to gays and lesbians than with sexual assault or adultery, let alone the sins that aren't about sex. You know, the ones Jesus spent most of his time talking about--things like hurting the poor, greed, cruelty, selfishness, craven submission to power, desire for empire.

Evangelicals, not Hollywood, worked hard to make sure that young people think being Christian means being an ignorant, hateful, prurient, militaristic, rigid control freak.
 
2020-07-10 11:16:14 AM  
I have my issues with CS Lewis, but even he warned of the dangers of falling in with people like Trump.  In Prince Caspian, Nikabrik's entire arc is a warning against succumbing to Machiavellian principles.
 
2020-07-10 11:18:26 AM  
Cry more the only reason you care is because it's going to decrease the number of butts in seats
I doubt you would have any problem with Trump otherwise?
You worked for Reagan and both Bush administrations

Almost a year ago you were an apologist for Evangelicals' support of Trump in this same magazine Many evangelical Christians are also filled with grievances and resentments because they feel they have been mocked, scorned, and dishonored by the elite culture over the years. (Some of those feelings are understandable and warranted
 
2020-07-10 11:26:13 AM  
"The GOP gives social conservatives little or nothing legislatively, and hasn't for a very long time," the conservative blogger Rod Dreher told Vox's Jane Coaston. "True, they have blocked some bad things over the years. That's not nothing. But I think we've always known that judges are the real deal here."

"Every institution-the media, academia, corporations, and others-are against us on gay and transgender rights, and GOP lawmakers are gutless. The only hope we had was that federal judges would protect the status quo. Now that's gone."


They are angry that the GOP aren't worse. I don't want these people anywhere near the levers of control in the US.
 
2020-07-10 11:28:39 AM  

cretinbob: No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...


Yeah, this is more like "Holy crap, we actually are like everyone has been saying we are, but we didn't listen to them because they're not Evangelicals so of course their opinions didn't matter."
 
2020-07-10 11:37:16 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-10 11:38:23 AM  
If only all of you would become invisible while worshipping your invisible man in the sky.
 
2020-07-10 11:39:11 AM  
Christians are fluid with their morality if it justifies their bigotry/racism.
 
2020-07-10 11:39:58 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-10 11:41:58 AM  

cretinbob: No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...


Correct. It was actually (((Hollywood))) and the (((media))).
 
2020-07-10 11:43:52 AM  

cretinbob: No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...


Create, reveal. Potato, pa-ta-toe
 
2020-07-10 11:43:55 AM  
It's difficult for religious types to remember this nut the separation of church and state was put in there to protect the church more than to protect the state. The founders knew that state power corrupts religious organizations.
 
2020-07-10 11:44:01 AM  
White evangelicals are the core of Trump's political support, and while the overwhelming number of the president's evangelical supporters may not be racist, they are willing to back a man who openly attempts to divide people by race.

That's because they're racists. You're so close to getting it.
 
2020-07-10 11:45:07 AM  
FTFA: "Much of the evangelical movement, in aligning itself with Donald Trump, has shown itself to be graceless and joyless, seized by fear, hypocritical, censorious, and filled with grievances. That is not true of all evangelicals, of course, and it's not true of all evangelicals who are Trump supporters. But it's true of enough of them, and certainly of the political leadership of the white evangelical movement, to have done deep injury to their public witness."

-----------------

I like how this is phrased: The problem isn't that they were already like this, just that it's so obvious to outsiders now.

-----------------

"This pastor, a lifelong Republican who declined to be quoted by name because of the position he occupies, wrote that "for decades Hollywood has portrayed conservative Christians as cruel, ignorant, greedy, and hypocritical. For 20 years I have worked, led, and sacrificed to put the lie to that stereotype..."

"He added, "Yes, Hollywood and the media created a decidedly unattractive stereotype of Christians. And Donald Trump fits it perfectly. Made it all seem true. And sadly, I now realize that stereotype is more true than I ever knew. It breaks my heart. In volleyball terms, Hollywood did the set, but Trump was the spike that drove the ball home. He's everything I've been trying to say isn't what the church is all about. But sadly, maybe it is."


-----------------

This pastor is so dense that I feel like he owes it to the world to contribute himself to science as a way to block neutrinos.

(Having spent the better part of the 1990s and 2000s in Evangelical churches, I will say that pretty much every single church I've ever been in loves to talk about how fake and hypocritical and legalistic all the other churches are, but how here we don't care about unnecessary rules and just want to have the most authentic experience of God. The problem with all of them is that any form of Christianity that teaches that salvation comes only from believing in their version of Jesus is going to be exclusionary and shiatty to outsiders unless they submit themselves completely to the church's teachings.

They're essentially arguing that their church is the best because it has the most aesthetically-pleasing arrangement of picnic furniture in a garbage dump, not like all the other churches that have different arrangements if picnic furniture in the same dump.)
 
2020-07-10 11:45:43 AM  
I have no idea how any "moderate" christian can still identify as a christian. It would be easier to make excuses for why you have a membership in the KKK than it is to explain why you're still a member of a christian church.
 
2020-07-10 11:47:09 AM  

sdd2000: [Fark user image 700x700]


That reminds me of
God is pissed
Youtube hIk3j9vvIAQ
 
2020-07-10 11:47:47 AM  
That False Messiah you all voted for.  It wasn't as if he had never revealed his true self before.
 
2020-07-10 11:49:32 AM  

wax_on: It's difficult for religious types to remember this nut the separation of church and state was put in there to protect the church more than to protect the state. The founders knew that state power corrupts religious organizations.


I thought it was put in there to protect churches from other churches.
No Anglican(Episopal whatever it is called) wanted to take a chance that their Lutherans could force them to be Lutherans and vice versa
 
2020-07-10 11:49:34 AM  
They've been that way since the early '60s, when the progressives were voted out of the ruling bodies and replaced with fundamentalists.

At best, they're lazy Christians, worried about declining attendance and declining revenue.

At worst, they are a collection of authoritarian, virulently prejudiced people.

whynotboth.jpg
 
2020-07-10 11:52:12 AM  
Its been my experience that christians are by-and-large genuinely awful people.

I dont know if its because christianity makes people awful, or if its simply because it attracts people who are already awful, but there is definitely a pattern there.

So much so that nowadays i generally avoid talking to people who are outwardly christian.
 
2020-07-10 11:52:16 AM  
maybe try not being hateful assholes.

then we can move from there to not falling for every conman with ridiculous hair.
 
2020-07-10 11:53:28 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


He's the antithesis of a good Christian, and most of us were already certain of that a decade ago.

But welcome to the party.
 
2020-07-10 11:54:25 AM  
Try walking the talk once in a while. It's uplifting and unburdens the soul.
 
2020-07-10 11:54:26 AM  
 
2020-07-10 11:54:34 AM  
Evangelical Christians are the dogshiat on America's new shoes
 
2020-07-10 11:54:36 AM  

swaniefrmreddeer: I have no idea how any "moderate" christian can still identify as a christian. It would be easier to make excuses for why you have a membership in the KKK than it is to explain why you're still a member of a christian church.


One of the nice things about Protestantism generally and Evangelicalism specifically is that churches don't have to act like they have any relationship with other Christians they don't like, and individual Christians can write off any other Christian as fake or faithless if they do something embarrassing.

So, basically, it doesn't matter if all the other churches and even some people in your church are racist; if they make you look bad they're fake, so you should only give Christianity positive PR.

(It's more-or-less the same dynamic as all the "No True Christian" statements that we get in these threads.)
 
2020-07-10 11:54:41 AM  

spongeboob: wax_on: It's difficult for religious types to remember this nut the separation of church and state was put in there to protect the church more than to protect the state. The founders knew that state power corrupts religious organizations.

I thought it was put in there to protect churches from other churches.
No Anglican(Episopal whatever it is called) wanted to take a chance that their Lutherans could force them to be Lutherans and vice versa


That's a side effect. But the founders really wanted to avoid a situation like the CoE which was hopelessly corrupt.
 
2020-07-10 11:55:26 AM  
These people did not change because of Trump. He merely revealed who they are, who they've always been and who they'll like always will be. Whatever benefit of doubt they ever deserved from thinking folk is no longer an issue because the stupid trash decided to show their true colors.
 
2020-07-10 11:55:38 AM  
Elmer Gantry was written in 1927.
 
2020-07-10 11:56:04 AM  
They got Gorsuch

...
and not a single word about how they cheated to get him.

fark 'em.
 
2020-07-10 11:57:20 AM  
Trump betrayed everyone he ever shook hands with. Then 60 million people shook hands with him. Any questions?
 
2020-07-10 11:58:41 AM  

Unobtanium: Yep. Congratulations, "Christians." You played yourselves.

/Presbyterian.


Also, Presbyterian (PCUSA) although technically I am an agnostic. However the Presbyterian church is one of the few that are actually trying to do what Jesus commanded. They don't care about who marries who, race, abortion, prayer in school.... They share a message of love, kindness, and support. You are right, numbers are dwindling. While I don't believe in God I do believe in the message and losing the community structures that organize the compassionate is a bad thing for America.
 
Juc
2020-07-10 11:59:06 AM  

IlGreven: Unobtanium: My hunch is that at the beginning of this Faustian bargain, most evangelicals didn't imagine it would come to this, with them defending the indefensible, tarnishing their reputations, and doing incalculable damage to their causes.

Evangelical or not, the SCOTUS and the other Federal Courts were often *the* reason that people voted for Trump. They imagined that Trump would be surrounded by people that could restrain his baser impulses and he would become "Presidential." They objectively didn't care that he was an unrepentant boor. They also don't understand how Federal Courts work. They complain about "activist judges," when in fact, that's what they want.

I know this firsthand, from pastors around the country who have talked about the catastrophic effects of the unholy alliance between evangelicals and Donald Trump. One pastor of a large church on the Pacific Coast told me: "There are many reasons why young people are turning away from the Church, but my observation is, Trump has vastly accelerated that trend. He's put it into hyperdrive."

Yep. Congratulations, "Christians." You played yourselves.

/Presbyterian.

...no, they really have no excuse.  They had plenty of other choices in Cruz, Rubio, even Mike farking Huckabee.

But no, instead of the good ol' southern boys, these people who ceaselessly complain about the Hollywood elite and the limousine libruls chose the (alleged) billionaire New Yorker.

This is totally on them.


There were a ton of capable legislators to choose from in the republican primaries.
I disagree with a lot of their platforms, but a bunch of them were actually qualified to do the job.
Instead they went with the absolute worst choice out of all the people who ran. I'm still surprised to be honest.
 
2020-07-10 11:59:20 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: White evangelicals are the core of Trump's political support, and while the overwhelming number of the president's evangelical supporters may not be racist, they are willing to back a man who openly attempts to divide people by race.

That's because they're racists. You're so close to getting it.


IDK maybe we can start doing the Racist/racist thing like Libertarian/libertarian or the Classical Liberal type thing to differentiate the types of racism
Let me start
Racist member of a hate organization or someone who has committed an overtly racist act in the last 7 years
racist someone who thinks all lives matter but can't bring themselves to say Black Lives Matter
Classical Racist someone who defends the founding fathers or others as 'Men of their times' and thinks America had a racism problem but it is like not a big deal today
 
2020-07-10 12:00:05 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: [Fark user image 425x363]

He's the antithesis of a good Christian, and most of us were already certain of that a decade ago.

But welcome to the party.


Swap in Envy for for Vain on the meme.
 
2020-07-10 12:04:43 PM  
All they wanted was for the government to punish sluts and keep teh gheys out of their shops (and in airport bathrooms), was that so much to ask?
 
2020-07-10 12:05:23 PM  

chewd: Its been my experience that christians are by-and-large genuinely awful people.

I dont know if its because christianity makes people awful, or if its simply because it attracts people who are already awful, but there is definitely a pattern there.

So much so that nowadays i generally avoid talking to people who are outwardly christian.


It's because most people are genuinely awful.
 
2020-07-10 12:05:32 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-10 12:06:00 PM  
christians have just shown their true selves by worshiping trump.  They are the greatest evil in America.
 
2020-07-10 12:09:32 PM  
"Every institution-the media, academia, corporations, and others-are against us on gay and transgender rights, and GOP lawmakers are gutless. The only hope we had was that federal judges would protect the status quo. Now that's gone."

That might be a sign that you've already lost the fight and should figure out what side of history you want to be on.
 
2020-07-10 12:10:15 PM  
"Evangelicals" have always been full of shiat. Theyve just given up trying to hide this fact.
 
2020-07-10 12:10:28 PM  
The American Evangelical movement sold its soul for a couple of Supreme Court seats.

They forgot that you pay forever for transactions involving souls.

American Evangelical Christianity has forever forfeit whatever moral authority it once had. Everyone now knows that Evangelical "morals" are a joke. And not a funny one, either.
 
2020-07-10 12:10:38 PM  
Because Christians follow a faith that's specifically designed with the intent of rendering them unable to absorb new information or learn anything, ever, either through lessons or through personal experience, and because evangelical protestantism basically took that ball from older versions of Christianity, discarded everything but that ball, and ran with it at farking supersonic speeds... they sometimes have trouble understanding that other, more functional people actually learn from their mistakes.

The side effect of this is that many Christians are genuinely mystified and shocked that doing basically the literal exact same thing they did with Reagan and got away with is now garnering an immediate negative popular backlash and all the damage is being noticed immediately instead of a decade later when nothing could be done about much of it.

Like, they straight-up actually don't get it that everyone else also watched their forty-year campaign to intentionally put Trump or someone essentially identical to him in place because he genuinely, unarguably represents all of their actual values and character, lived through them putting the rest of us through Reagan and Bush, and like... gained the ability to see through and deal with the trick through observation and experience.

It's not so much an "ideological blindness" as that Christianity renders, very much purposefully, a substantial portion of its victims literally learning disabled.  They actually can't mentally conceive of the thing that's causing it all to fall apart this time, to the point that most will straight-up deny it even if you carefully explain it to them.
 
2020-07-10 12:11:12 PM  
All religion is poison. It's just a matter of potency.
 
2020-07-10 12:11:23 PM  

cretinbob: No...No...Hollywood and the media did not create it...


Correct. Hollywood and the media merely held a mirror to Christianity.
 
2020-07-10 12:11:29 PM  

madgonad: Unobtanium: Yep. Congratulations, "Christians." You played yourselves.

/Presbyterian.

Also, Presbyterian (PCUSA) although technically I am an agnostic. However the Presbyterian church is one of the few that are actually trying to do what Jesus commanded. They don't care about who marries who, race, abortion, prayer in school.... They share a message of love, kindness, and support. You are right, numbers are dwindling. While I don't believe in God I do believe in the message and losing the community structures that organize the compassionate is a bad thing for America.


Umm.  Point of order. Presbyterians are Protestants. Yes?  Whom exactly do you think they were protesting? The filthy Catholic papists. Don't give me the 'my version of Christianity ' is better than yours BULLSHIAT. They all suck and mostly derive their adherents from historical mutual hatred of anything 'other'.
 
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