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(AP News)   Justice Department to resume federal executions for the first time in more than 15 years because OF COURSE THEY ARE   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Capital punishment, Prison, Lethal injection, Capital punishment in the United States, federal executions, Crime, death penalty, Death row  
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630 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jul 2020 at 9:40 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-09 9:56:39 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-09 12:51:10 PM  
I can't imagine wanting to witness that, even if you have been grossly wronged.

/there I go, sounding all Christiany again.
 
2020-07-09 2:41:48 PM  
You can debate the merits of the death penalty and whether it should be a policy.  However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.  While I certainly would agree it is over utilized and the selection of cases can often be political or racially biased, there are many individuals who there is no doubt of their guilt and have earned that sentence. In my opinion, there is a public safety justification for the ultimate punishment and that for those individuals convicted, their presence on this plain of existence is no longer necessary and they should move on to whatever is next to prevent any further harm.

Certainly we need to reform many aspects of the selection process for appropriate cases, provide for robust review, and select swift and effective methods of carrying out the sentence as opposed to less effective methods that make society more comfortable. The death penalty requires society to end a life, it should be done quickly and as painlessly as possible and be public as the horror of this choice should be inflicted on everyone. Society is killing people so society should bear witness to it. Whether that method is the firing squad, guillotine, hanging, nitrogen poisoning, etc., we need to move away from the false medical application of drugs to put inmates to sleep that is prone to errors and unnecessary suffering.
 
2020-07-09 5:41:44 PM  
Assuming those three people really did what they've been convicted of, I can't think of three better candidates for the death penalty.

/big assumption
//death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt
///one for each soon-to-be corpse
 
2020-07-09 7:01:13 PM  

Uncle Eazy: //death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt


Without a perfect justice system, that's impossible. And at least victims of that kind of justice system have a chance of some kind of restitution if only their time is taken; you can't give a victim of a miscarriage of justice their life back, if it's been wrongly taken from them.
 
2020-07-09 7:59:18 PM  

iron de havilland: Uncle Eazy: //death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt

Without a perfect justice system, that's impossible. And at least victims of that kind of justice system have a chance of some kind of restitution if only their time is taken; you can't give a victim of a miscarriage of justice their life back, if it's been wrongly taken from them.


It is possible to have zero doubt that the person condemned committed the act.  A mass shooter covered in blood, captured by cameras and law enforcement in the act, who confesses has zero doubt. Now maybe there is a question regarding mental illness that is resolved via trial, but there is zero doubt on whether they committed the offense. Or you have an inmate who only has one cell mate who suddenly develops a fatal case of 100 stab wounds.  I am absolutely comfortable executing that person. There are more of those cases out there than you would think.
 
2020-07-09 8:20:49 PM  

Daedalus27: iron de havilland: Uncle Eazy: //death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt

Without a perfect justice system, that's impossible. And at least victims of that kind of justice system have a chance of some kind of restitution if only their time is taken; you can't give a victim of a miscarriage of justice their life back, if it's been wrongly taken from them.

It is possible to have zero doubt that the person condemned committed the act.  A mass shooter covered in blood,


Whose blood? DNA evidence is not perfect.

captured by cameras

Deepfakes exist.

and law enforcement in the act,

LOL

You'd need to first have a trustworthy system of law enforcement.

who confesses has zero doubt.

Plea bargains can be used to make innocent people plead guilty.

Now maybe there is a question regarding mental illness that is resolved via trial, but there is zero doubt on whether they committed the offense. Or you have an inmate who only has one cell mate who suddenly develops a fatal case of 100 stab wounds.  I am absolutely comfortable executing that person. There are more of those cases out there than you would think.

There are also many cases where innocent people have been killed by the state, but no amount of apologies or financial compensation can restore a life that has been taken.

For your consideration, how do you feel about the execution of Derek Bentley? A key part of that case was whether "let him have it" meant surrender your weapon, or shoot someone.

If the state cannot be trusted to be correct in criminal prosecutions 100% of the time, it cannot be trusted to administer irrevocable penalties.
 
2020-07-09 9:42:07 PM  

iron de havilland: Daedalus27: iron de havilland: Uncle Eazy: //death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt

Without a perfect justice system, that's impossible. And at least victims of that kind of justice system have a chance of some kind of restitution if only their time is taken; you can't give a victim of a miscarriage of justice their life back, if it's been wrongly taken from them.

It is possible to have zero doubt that the person condemned committed the act.  A mass shooter covered in blood,

Whose blood? DNA evidence is not perfect.

captured by cameras

Deepfakes exist.

and law enforcement in the act,

LOL

You'd need to first have a trustworthy system of law enforcement.

who confesses has zero doubt.

Plea bargains can be used to make innocent people plead guilty.

Now maybe there is a question regarding mental illness that is resolved via trial, but there is zero doubt on whether they committed the offense. Or you have an inmate who only has one cell mate who suddenly develops a fatal case of 100 stab wounds.  I am absolutely comfortable executing that person. There are more of those cases out there than you would think.

There are also many cases where innocent people have been killed by the state, but no amount of apologies or financial compensation can restore a life that has been taken.

For your consideration, how do you feel about the execution of Derek Bentley? A key part of that case was whether "let him have it" meant surrender your weapon, or shoot someone.

If the state cannot be trusted to be correct in criminal prosecutions 100% of the time, it cannot be trusted to administer irrevocable penalties.


Innocent people have died, hell go to Wellingham if you want a horrible example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Cameron_​Todd_Willingham or other examples that exist.  There is no question that the death penalty has been misapplied numerous times.

How about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D​ylann_R​oof, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H​o​lmes_(mass_murderer), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy​_​McVeigh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_​B​ehring_Breivik, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christc​h​urch_mosque_shootings#Perpetrator Brenton Harrison Tarrant

All are white, all are guilty without a doubt, one has been executed McVeigh.  The death penalty needs reform to be sure and prosecutions should be limited to the most severe offenses or those who kill while in prison.  But certainly, there are any number of cases where the sheer weight of evidence is overwhelming and there is no doubt even if individual pieces of evidence could be fabricated through techniques.  In that case, you can still fundamentally be opposed to the death penalty as a perfectly reasonable position, but you have to concede it is on moral grounds rather than possible mistake.
 
2020-07-09 9:48:16 PM  
Fark the death penalty. It doesn't deter crime, it's really farking expensive, and it's an irreversible response to an imperfect criminal justice system. I don't give a shiat how long it's been on the books.
 
2020-07-09 9:48:40 PM  
LAW & ORDER!
 
2020-07-09 9:49:40 PM  
This is actually pretty good timing.

We'll have the death penalty in full force for when the treason trials start in February.
 
2020-07-09 9:49:44 PM  
iron de havilland:

A life sentence that starts at 20 but proven innocent at 78 with a few years before natural death at 81 is better than death, instead of 20 years of appeals and execution at 40
 
2020-07-09 9:50:20 PM  
We have a whole group of traitors that needs trimming.
 
2020-07-09 9:50:29 PM  
Can't have proper law and order president if you aren't killing people to set an example to the citizens. Gotta give 'em the fear.
 
2020-07-09 9:51:50 PM  

Krieghund: This is actually pretty good timing.

We'll have the death penalty in full force for when the treason trials start in February.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-09 9:55:42 PM  
Everyone in a us jail right now is on death row.
 
2020-07-09 9:55:54 PM  
Do we still hang traitors? Asking for, well everyone
 
2020-07-09 9:56:29 PM  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-09 9:56:54 PM  
"Pro-life."
 
2020-07-09 9:58:24 PM  
Subby, did you ever stop to think that maybe this time, the prisoners are getting off easy?
 
2020-07-09 9:58:49 PM  
Just in time to put Donald J Trump to death for treason.
 
2020-07-09 9:59:35 PM  
Let me guess, the vast majority of federal death row inmates are persons of color?

/you know Trump will crow about it on Twitter if the feds execute a black person
 
2020-07-09 10:00:34 PM  
Blood for the blood god?
 
2020-07-09 10:03:23 PM  
At this point I just think trump wants to kill as many people as possible.


Bureau of Prisons officials insist they will be able to conduct the executions safely and have been holding practice drills for months.

First of all, how do you "safely execute" someone? They survive?
Second, you have to practice safely killing people for months?
Third, who the fark is paying for this schitt?
Forth, stop.

I don't know who's pet dog this is, but I hope it bites them.
 
2020-07-09 10:04:49 PM  
Daedalus27:

However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.

The death penalty as practiced everywhere that uses it isn't about justice, it's about vengeance and blood sport, and neither should ever be allowed to intersect under the bullshiat argument that it's being done for the benefit of the victims.
 
2020-07-09 10:06:22 PM  

Daedalus27: However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.


In Georgia, eating fried chicken with a knife and fork is illegal. Go to any site. There are hundreds of dumb laws around the country.

Something being "on the books" is not a justification for enforcing it.
 
2020-07-09 10:07:35 PM  

Daedalus27: Innocent people have died


Yeah, and that's where you're argument for state-sanctioned killing should stop.

There is always the option for full-life incarceration. Then, when it's found out that they got the wrong guy, the victim of the justice system has some small chance of making a life with what they have, hopefully with some kind of remuneration from the state to make some kind of amends for the life they've wrongfully taken.

oops sorry lol does not bring people back from the dead.
 
2020-07-09 10:10:56 PM  
No, the article's tone is totally right.  Let's keep rapist/murderers alive b/c oh no the coronavirus!

/s
 
2020-07-09 10:13:19 PM  
Devil's Advocate: do you want them to just keep them in prisons? With COVID going around those places are death traps!
 
2020-07-09 10:13:57 PM  

iron de havilland: Yeah, and that's where you're argument


/me kicks self in the ball bag
 
2020-07-09 10:18:15 PM  

grumpfuff: Daedalus27: However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.

In Georgia, eating fried chicken with a knife and fork is illegal. Go to any site. There are hundreds of dumb laws around the country.

Something being "on the books" is not a justification for enforcing it.


A few years back the Baton Rouge police were going undercover and soliciting sex from gay men in parks. Mind you, it wasn't to have sex IN the park, just to make plans to do it elsewhere. And then they arrested them when they said yes, because the sodomy laws there were still "on the books." When it made national news and the media came after the sheriff, he basically said, "It's still on the books. How were we supposed to know we couldn't still enforce it? Laws are so confusing. 😉😉😉"

So yeah, fark "the books." The books are not justification, nor are they obligation. Discretion exists.

/all sodomy laws need to be removed so we can never experience this again.
 
2020-07-09 10:19:09 PM  

AuralArgument: iron de havilland:

A life sentence that starts at 20 but proven innocent at 78 with a few years before natural death at 81 is better than death, instead of 20 years of appeals and execution at 40


I *want* to say that time spent in our penal system is very likely torture, so the math becomes a little more complicated. However, I then remember when I found out as a young child that the "death penalty" existed. I had waking nightmares for days trying to fathom how we could keep people in a box, making them know that we were going to one day walk them down a hall and strap them into (at that time all I knew about was) a chair and fry their insides in front of an audience. Trying to fathom how that didn't destroy a person psychologically within minutes.

So yeah, I'd opt for the 58 years.
 
2020-07-09 10:24:21 PM  
DONALD TRUMP:

Matthew 7:1-3
King James Version
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Trump is the least Christian president ever.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-09 10:24:55 PM  
The problem isn't killing people, really. In the abstract, do some people deserve to be executed? Probably.

The problem is that in practice, you have a person being condemned to die by another person, based on what some people believe. And should the government really have the authority to kill people?

It's a total mess, and there's not much reason to deal with it when life in prison is such a readily available alternative. So a guy who should probably die gets to spend a few decades in a cell and die there. Is that really so hard to live with? Is it really easier knowing that sometimes people are executed unjustly?

And right now... is it worth risking people's lives and health just to kill some prisoners? Even if the risk is low, what's the rush?
 
2020-07-09 10:25:17 PM  

quo vadimus: AuralArgument: iron de havilland:

A life sentence that starts at 20 but proven innocent at 78 with a few years before natural death at 81 is better than death, instead of 20 years of appeals and execution at 40

I *want* to say that time spent in our penal system is very likely torture, so the math becomes a little more complicated. However, I then remember when I found out as a young child that the "death penalty" existed. I had waking nightmares for days trying to fathom how we could keep people in a box, making them know that we were going to one day walk them down a hall and strap them into (at that time all I knew about was) a chair and fry their insides in front of an audience. Trying to fathom how that didn't destroy a person psychologically within minutes.

So yeah, I'd opt for the 58 years.


I no longer take part in conversations and debates about prison sentencing because I cannot in good conscience assign *any* time to any criminal in a prison, because our prisons are so horrifically unethically run. They are a very real form of cruel and unusual punishment that literally not a single person deserves from a justice standpoint. Of course, this makes my friends accuse me of being "soft on crime."

/one time, one of them called me a rape apologist
//kind of a weird accusation against someone who's actually been raped, but ok
///slashies
 
2020-07-09 10:27:04 PM  

austerity101: grumpfuff: Daedalus27: However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.

In Georgia, eating fried chicken with a knife and fork is illegal. Go to any site. There are hundreds of dumb laws around the country.

Something being "on the books" is not a justification for enforcing it.

A few years back the Baton Rouge police were going undercover and soliciting sex from gay men in parks. Mind you, it wasn't to have sex IN the park, just to make plans to do it elsewhere. And then they arrested them when they said yes, because the sodomy laws there were still "on the books." When it made national news and the media came after the sheriff, he basically said, "It's still on the books. How were we supposed to know we couldn't still enforce it? Laws are so confusing. 😉😉😉"

So yeah, fark "the books." The books are not justification, nor are they obligation. Discretion exists.

/all sodomy laws need to be removed so we can never experience this again.


They have been. The SCOTUS struck them down in like 2014, I think?

Some states still have rape statutes named "sodomy," but they don't outlaw buttsex, they outlaw rape.
 
2020-07-09 10:28:24 PM  
I think it's funny that the people who complain that the government shouldn't have the right to take a portion of your income are also often the people who have no problem with the government taking your life.

There certainly are people who deserve death, but I don't trust anyone with the power to make that determination.  Government is better than anarchy, and it certainly has its uses, but there's a limit to how much I trust in government, and that limit is reached well before we get to the point of deciding who should get to live and who shouldn't.
 
2020-07-09 10:30:03 PM  
It is an effective way to win an election. US executions happen mostly in election years, and they get incumbents re-elected. It has nothing to do with justice. It's the same as a lynching. The whole world is confused about why they don't call it lynching, given how racist their death penalty is.
 
2020-07-09 10:32:47 PM  

Daedalus27: You can debate the merits of the death penalty and whether it should be a policy.  However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.  While I certainly would agree it is over utilized and the selection of cases can often be political or racially biased, there are many individuals who there is no doubt of their guilt and have earned that sentence. In my opinion, there is a public safety justification for the ultimate punishment and that for those individuals convicted, their presence on this plain of existence is no longer necessary and they should move on to whatever is next to prevent any further harm.

Certainly we need to reform many aspects of the selection process for appropriate cases, provide for robust review, and select swift and effective methods of carrying out the sentence as opposed to less effective methods that make society more comfortable. The death penalty requires society to end a life, it should be done quickly and as painlessly as possible and be public as the horror of this choice should be inflicted on everyone. Society is killing people so society should bear witness to it. Whether that method is the firing squad, guillotine, hanging, nitrogen poisoning, etc., we need to move away from the false medical application of drugs to put inmates to sleep that is prone to errors and unnecessary suffering.


A massive overdose of fentanyl or morphine would be relatively quick and painless and cheap.
 
2020-07-09 10:33:10 PM  
Here's the deal....
There are just some people that are unsafe to society in any way. Serial killers are a great example. Others get put into prison and continue to kill there, killing guards and other prisoners.

But I'm not exactly pro-death penalty, and I speak from direct experience. At 5, I watched my mother beaten to death by her boyfriend. Even though the guy got out of prison and was back in within 10 years for locking a woman and her child in a house, dousing it with gas, and attempting to set it on fire. He still doesn't deserve the death penalty. He deserved more than the 7 years he got for killing my mother (not a shortened sentence, mind you, that was his full sentence), but he doesn't deserve the death penalty.

But some people are so vile and such a danger that they really have no place in this world.

The system needs to be fixed first, for sure. Waaaaaaay too many innocent people have ended up on death row, and even the ones that have managed to get exonerated shouldn't have been there in the first place. So even though I believe that there are people who have no place on this planet and deserve the death penalty, the system needs to be repaired first and foremost.
 
2020-07-09 10:38:27 PM  

Puglio: austerity101: grumpfuff: Daedalus27: However as long as it is on the books, it should be enforced.

In Georgia, eating fried chicken with a knife and fork is illegal. Go to any site. There are hundreds of dumb laws around the country.

Something being "on the books" is not a justification for enforcing it.

A few years back the Baton Rouge police were going undercover and soliciting sex from gay men in parks. Mind you, it wasn't to have sex IN the park, just to make plans to do it elsewhere. And then they arrested them when they said yes, because the sodomy laws there were still "on the books." When it made national news and the media came after the sheriff, he basically said, "It's still on the books. How were we supposed to know we couldn't still enforce it? Laws are so confusing. 😉😉😉"

So yeah, fark "the books." The books are not justification, nor are they obligation. Discretion exists.

/all sodomy laws need to be removed so we can never experience this again.

They have been. The SCOTUS struck them down in like 2014, I think?

Some states still have rape statutes named "sodomy," but they don't outlaw buttsex, they outlaw rape.


No, they haven't been removed--they're just technically unenforceable, which makes it possible for homophobic police forces to enforce them. The sheriff knew about the Supreme Court case (it was Lawrence v. Texas, 2003), but he was able to claim that he didn't, or that it caused a "confusing" conflict between local and federal law. This is all lies, but the fact that the law remained on the books gave them a way to bulky and terrorize gay men.
 
2020-07-09 10:39:19 PM  
*Bully. Thanks, phone. Even in the preview I missed it somehow.
 
2020-07-09 10:46:23 PM  

Mikey1969: But some people are so vile and such a danger that they really have no place in this world.


In which case, make them live to see the world in which they have a hand.

Do the murderers who want to become martyrs enjoy the tedium of everyday life? Does Charles Manson enjoy that we compare his psychotic tics to those of Donald Trump?

There's also the concept that if people hang for certain crimes, they may feel empowered by reaching that level, too. If the punishment for rape is death, why not murder your victim, too?

I think the punishment of whole-life incarceration is far worse than a quick and easy escape. You have your entire life to think about what you've done.
 
2020-07-09 10:49:06 PM  

AuralArgument: iron de havilland:

A life sentence that starts at 20 but proven innocent at 78 with a few years before natural death at 81 is better than death, instead of 20 years of appeals and execution at 40


This is true. With the settlement money you'd receive, you could do hookers and blow until your heart exploded. Plus, after 60 years in prison, even the cheap hookers will look mighty fine, so you could have a whole harem of them work the rod 10 ways to Sunday until either your dick fell off or the viagra-coke combo (geriatric speedball) sends you down the river styx.
 
2020-07-09 10:58:22 PM  
They should sentence them to attend ten Trump rallies, kind of like the Russian roulette  game our country is playing with a horrible farker that Republicans clung to after the horrors of an Ivy League educated charismatic mother-farker their wife-slaves may have sighed at once because smart can be sexy, sometimes.
 
2020-07-09 10:59:23 PM  

iron de havilland: Mikey1969: But some people are so vile and such a danger that they really have no place in this world.

In which case, make them live to see the world in which they have a hand.

Do the murderers who want to become martyrs enjoy the tedium of everyday life? Does Charles Manson enjoy that we compare his psychotic tics to those of Donald Trump?

There's also the concept that if people hang for certain crimes, they may feel empowered by reaching that level, too. If the punishment for rape is death, why not murder your victim, too?

I think the punishment of whole-life incarceration is far worse than a quick and easy escape. You have your entire life to think about what you've done.


They don't care to think about what they've done. They're excited and proud of it.

And as I said, some of these people continue to kill while incarcerated. Killing them means that they stop hurting people. Letting them live means that they continue to do what they do best--commit mayhem.
 
2020-07-09 11:00:58 PM  

iron de havilland: Mikey1969: But some people are so vile and such a danger that they really have no place in this world.

In which case, make them live to see the world in which they have a hand.

Do the murderers who want to become martyrs enjoy the tedium of everyday life? Does Charles Manson enjoy that we compare his psychotic tics to those of Donald Trump?

There's also the concept that if people hang for certain crimes, they may feel empowered by reaching that level, too. If the punishment for rape is death, why not murder your victim, too?

I think the punishment of whole-life incarceration is far worse than a quick and easy escape. You have your entire life to think about what you've done.


Sorry, hit 'post' too early.

But I can appreciate your view on this, I just view it differently.
 
2020-07-09 11:05:38 PM  
The state or federal government should never kill their own citizens.
 
2020-07-09 11:08:24 PM  

chuggernaught: The state or federal government should never kill their own citizens.


What about McVeigh?

Haven't some people committed atrocities so horrible that they deserve death?  Perhaps there ought to be a higher standard for the death penalty.  But it ought to be available if a state wishes to use it.
 
2020-07-09 11:09:31 PM  

iron de havilland: Daedalus27: iron de havilland: Uncle Eazy: //death penalty should only be handed out based on "zero doubt" not reasonable doubt

Without a perfect justice system, that's impossible. And at least victims of that kind of justice system have a chance of some kind of restitution if only their time is taken; you can't give a victim of a miscarriage of justice their life back, if it's been wrongly taken from them.

It is possible to have zero doubt that the person condemned committed the act.  A mass shooter covered in blood,

Whose blood? DNA evidence is not perfect.

captured by cameras

Deepfakes exist.

and law enforcement in the act,

LOL

You'd need to first have a trustworthy system of law enforcement.

who confesses has zero doubt.

Plea bargains can be used to make innocent people plead guilty.

Now maybe there is a question regarding mental illness that is resolved via trial, but there is zero doubt on whether they committed the offense. Or you have an inmate who only has one cell mate who suddenly develops a fatal case of 100 stab wounds.  I am absolutely comfortable executing that person. There are more of those cases out there than you would think.

There are also many cases where innocent people have been killed by the state, but no amount of apologies or financial compensation can restore a life that has been taken.

For your consideration, how do you feel about the execution of Derek Bentley? A key part of that case was whether "let him have it" meant surrender your weapon, or shoot someone.

If the state cannot be trusted to be correct in criminal prosecutions 100% of the time, it cannot be trusted to administer irrevocable penalties.


Pardon me while i stand up and applaud.

Execution is about vengeance not justice.
 
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