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(LA Times)   Which is more racist? A: Confederate statues? B: White Nationalists? or C: Los Angeles freeways?   (latimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, African American, Racism, Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, California, Racial segregation, Ku Klux Klan, United States, Jim Crow laws  
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3672 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2020 at 5:50 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-07 4:24:29 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 5:16:16 PM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 5:54:41 PM  
JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.
 
2020-07-07 5:55:34 PM  
I think the answer is just "freeways" everywhere. LA, Miami, Portland... when the interstates were built, minority neighborhoods suffered the most.
 
2020-07-07 5:57:09 PM  

Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.


Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.
 
2020-07-07 5:57:47 PM  
tl;dr black communities didn't command the power to stop highway projects going straight through their neighborhoods, and real estate developers happily used them as demarcation lines into "white side" and "black side".

This opinion piece made for some good background into LA history, but the author is trying to use it as an excuse to downplay the tearing down of monuments.
 
2020-07-07 5:57:54 PM  
really? you people need to get over yourselves. the world is turning into shiat and you gotta get your panties in a knot over something we did to ourselves two hundred years ago? I am all for creating a Waterworld village and getting the fark out of Dodge. who is with me?
 
2020-07-07 5:58:59 PM  
Some day parents will be saying, "you can't go out with her, she's from the wrong side of the hyper-loop."
 
2020-07-07 6:00:20 PM  
Obvious tag still stuck on the 405?

Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.

Interstate 70 in Maryland is one example where it didn't work. They wanted it to connect to I-95 but it would have go right through the neighborhoods of West Baltimore. Instead that plan was abandoned and now Interstate 70 ends in a parking lot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter​s​tate_70_in_Maryland

live.staticflickr.comView Full Size


aaroads.comView Full Size


That's not to mention the fact the creation of the freeway system is what initially spurred the White Flight that occurred in the latter half of the 20th Century.

/Admittedly a road geek
//Will stop geeking out now
///can't think of anything funny or clever for my third slashie
 
2020-07-07 6:00:35 PM  
Yes freeway layout in many major cities tended to favor wealthier white people, no the correct solution isn't bulldozing them. How would they get replaced, Infrastructure Week?
 
2020-07-07 6:00:52 PM  
I rolled my eyes so hard I tied knots in my optic nerves.

I've lived in LA County for 32 years.  Freeways have been here, what, twice that long?  Three times.

There's been more than sufficient time for people to diffuse across any barriers that the freeway rights of way may have erected.

In fact, in 32 years, I've seen ethnic and economic groups migrate northwards across both the 10 and 210 freeways in the San Gabriel Valley, and westward across both SR-110 and 101.

TFA can go troll in San Diego.
 
2020-07-07 6:01:12 PM  
D - Newspapers, like the LA Times, because they've historically used black ink to masquerade the paper's unacceptable whiteness
 
2020-07-07 6:01:41 PM  
There's a reason the 2 and 710 never got finished.
 
2020-07-07 6:01:51 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.

Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.


He looks about 40 and is aggressively anti-car. I take back my comment about gaslighting racism, he actually just really hates freeways.
 
2020-07-07 6:04:47 PM  

inelegy: D - Newspapers, like the LA Times, because they've historically used

exploited and enslaved black ink to masquerade the paper's unacceptable whiteness

FTFM
 
2020-07-07 6:05:24 PM  
The neighborhoods that may have been one ethnicity or another at the time no longer are the same ethnicity.  The neighborhood divisions they caused decades ago have been worked around as the communities adjusted to the changes.  The 105 corridor, NLB, South (Central) LA, etc are mostly Hispanic now, like SoCal in general, and the black communities have moved on to other areas.  Bulldozing the freeways won't do anything, but if you want to replace them with mass transit, I'd be fine with that.
 
2020-07-07 6:05:29 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.


Robert Moses chuckles from his pit in hell.
=Smidge=
 
2020-07-07 6:07:06 PM  

Smidge204: Mrtraveler01: Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.

Robert Moses chuckles from his pit in hell.
=Smidge=


Yep.

Mr. "I'm going to intentionally going to make the overpasses too small for a bus to fit through so those people can't come to our beach communities".
 
2020-07-07 6:08:27 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Obvious tag still stuck on the 405?

Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.

Interstate 70 in Maryland is one example where it didn't work. They wanted it to connect to I-95 but it would have go right through the neighborhoods of West Baltimore. Instead that plan was abandoned and now Interstate 70 ends in a parking lot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters​tate_70_in_Maryland

[live.staticflickr.com image 850x637]

[aaroads.com image 850x515]

That's not to mention the fact the creation of the freeway system is what initially spurred the White Flight that occurred in the latter half of the 20th Century.

/Admittedly a road geek
//Will stop geeking out now
///can't think of anything funny or clever for my third slashie


I ran into that while googling locations around Leakin Park while listening to the first season of Serial (the podcast).
 
2020-07-07 6:08:36 PM  

bughunter: I rolled my eyes so hard I tied knots in my optic nerves.

I've lived in LA County for 32 years.  Freeways have been here, what, twice that long?  Three times.

There's been more than sufficient time for people to diffuse across any barriers that the freeway rights of way may have erected.

In fact, in 32 years, I've seen ethnic and economic groups migrate northwards across both the 10 and 210 freeways in the San Gabriel Valley, and westward across both SR-110 and 101.

TFA can go troll in San Diego.


The "bad" communities are still dealing with crap like asbestos, subpar construction, and undersized pipes. Only Mexico & East LA still have to throw away their toilet paper instead of flushing it.
 
2020-07-07 6:08:53 PM  

Foxxinnia: There's a reason the 2 and 710 never got finished.


That part is true.

But the real reason for that is money, not race.

Westwood and South Pasadena money, respectively.
 
2020-07-07 6:09:28 PM  

inelegy: D - Newspapers, like the LA Times, because they've historically used black ink to masquerade the paper's unacceptable whiteness


you did mean african american ink

as for masquerade, you areappropriating that from the french so give it back

and all English words are from somewhere else so stop using them all....
 
2020-07-07 6:09:49 PM  
L.A. resident here. I always wondered why there are no freeway onramps and exits in the most expensive parts of the city (Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Malibu, Palos Verdes, Hermosa Beach, Manhattan Beach). You always have to drive to get to them from those places. But in the 'hood? Freeway onramps are everywhere. I guess Santa Monica would be the exception to the rule, since it's pretty expensive overall, and the 10 runs right through it.

I knew about the red train cars we used to have because of a story I read about them years ago. You can still see train tracks today that they never pulled up. Imagine being able to ride a train from downtown all the way to the beach. That must've been very cool.
 
2020-07-07 6:11:08 PM  
And there is the Rondo neighborhood of St. Paul, MN...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondo_N​e​ighborhood
 
2020-07-07 6:11:50 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.

Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.


I forget which of Obama's aides used to boast about how the average age of a journalist was 27 and the entirety of their life experiences consisted of attending left wing political indoctrinations.  Put them in an echo chamber and you could get them to believe and write anything.

Now I remember it was Ben Rhodes who revealed the very Nazi/Stalin side of the progressive movement during an interview with the NYT.

"Example #1 was revealed earlier this year, when Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes - the brother of CBS News President David Rhodes - literally bragged to the New York Times how easy it was for the administration to dupe reporters when shaping a narrative to their liking.

"All these newspapers used to have foreign bureaus," Rhodes told the Times in May. "Now they don't. They call us to explain to them what's happening in Moscow and Cairo. Most of the outlets are reporting on world events from Washington. The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That's a sea change."  "They literally know nothing."

Rhodes and his assistant, Ned Price, proceeded to boast how the narrative around the unpopular Iran nuclear was relatively easy to establish with a press all too eager to believe what they were being told.
Per the New York Times' David Samuels:
In this environment, Rhodes has become adept at ventriloquizing many people at once. Ned Price, Rhodes's assistant, gave me a primer on how it's done. The easiest way for the White House to shape the news, he explained, is from the briefing podiums, each of which has its own dedicated press corps. "But then there are sort of these force multipliers," he said, adding, "We have our compadres, I will reach out to a couple people, and you know I wouldn't want to name them - "
"I can name them," I said, ticking off a few names of prominent Washington reporters and columnists who often tweet in sync with White House messaging.
Price laughed. "I'll say, 'Hey, look, some people are spinning this narrative that this is a sign of American weakness,'" he continued, "but - "
"In fact it's a sign of strength!" I said, chuckling.
"And I'll give them some color," Price continued, "and the next thing I know, lots of these guys are in the dot-com publishing space, and have huge Twitter followings, and they'll be putting this message out on their own."
Hilarious, right? Fake news being created successfully sold and being celebrated - in print - by a New York Times reporter and members of the Obama Administration.
 
2020-07-07 6:11:52 PM  

bughunter: There's been more than sufficient time for people to diffuse across any barriers that the freeway rights of way may have erected


Translation for white peopls: "if you aren't making enough money, just move!"
 
2020-07-07 6:13:30 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Obvious tag still stuck on the 405?

Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.

Interstate 70 in Maryland is one example where it didn't work. They wanted it to connect to I-95 but it would have go right through the neighborhoods of West Baltimore. Instead that plan was abandoned and now Interstate 70 ends in a parking lot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters​tate_70_in_Maryland

[live.staticflickr.com image 850x637]

[aaroads.com image 850x515]

That's not to mention the fact the creation of the freeway system is what initially spurred the White Flight that occurred in the latter half of the 20th Century.

/Admittedly a road geek
//Will stop geeking out now
///can't think of anything funny or clever for my third slashie


There are already ruffled Saltine-Americans ITT, please don't make them go all "I FEEL THREATENED!! *huff huff huff huff*"
 
2020-07-07 6:14:07 PM  

bughunter: I rolled my eyes so hard I tied knots in my optic nerves.

I've lived in LA County for 32 years.  Freeways have been here, what, twice that long?  Three times.

There's been more than sufficient time for people to diffuse across any barriers that the freeway rights of way may have erected.

In fact, in 32 years, I've seen ethnic and economic groups migrate northwards across both the 10 and 210 freeways in the San Gabriel Valley, and westward across both SR-110 and 101.

TFA can go troll in San Diego.


The issue isn't what can be done now, since, as you said, people have figured out how to diffuse across barriers. The issue is that when it occurred 70+ years ago, it gave whites an advantage and put blacks in a disadvantage, and that discrepancy may have lasted perhaps just 5 years. But compound that disadvantage over time and it's actually much larger now.

Suppose you have $10,000. You take half of that and put it into a high-growth mutual fund, earning 7% annual. You take the other half, subtract 30% off the top, put it into a medium growth mutual fund that earns 4% and that is also taxed every year on its growth. Just after 5 years, the differences are quite remarkable. And even if you can move money from the lower-growth to the higher growth, it's already in a deep hole compared to the other fund. The poorly-held fund has to now do even better, for a longer period of time, just to catch up. And that's what racism has done to African Americans and other races, but primarily the African Americans.
 
2020-07-07 6:15:34 PM  
If there's one thing LA is worse at than freeways, it's constructing rail lines. We're still at least 20 years out from having a halfway usable rail system.
 
2020-07-07 6:15:37 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.

Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.


Yeah, quite often the loudest voices on the bullshiat fringe of these demands are people who think they're helping when they aren't, I agree.
 
2020-07-07 6:16:32 PM  

I Browse: L.A. resident here. I always wondered why there are no freeway onramps and exits in the most expensive parts of the city (Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Malibu, Palos Verdes, Hermosa Beach, Manhattan Beach). You always have to drive to get to them from those places. But in the 'hood? Freeway onramps are everywhere. I guess Santa Monica would be the exception to the rule, since it's pretty expensive overall, and the 10 runs right through it.

I knew about the red train cars we used to have because of a story I read about them years ago. You can still see train tracks today that they never pulled up. Imagine being able to ride a train from downtown all the way to the beach. That must've been very cool.


It is an on-ramp, but really, Santa Monica is just the terminus for the 10.
 
2020-07-07 6:16:35 PM  

puffy999: I think the answer is just "freeways" everywhere. LA, Miami, Portland... when the interstates were built, minority neighborhoods suffered the most.


Question: why is X?

Answer: racism.
 
2020-07-07 6:22:21 PM  

I Browse: L.A. resident here. I ... Santa Monica ...


I always wondered who this saint is. If there's ever a saint that is so aptly named for LA, it's gotta be Santa Monica. The patron saint of hot babes working their tan. Probably a cousin of Saint Tropez.
 
2020-07-07 6:22:22 PM  
So my Coronavirus guilty pleasure is driving around southern California freeways, often ending up in Palm Desert / Yucca Valley, and way the fark out there just before the 60 merges with the 10, they're adding lanes to the 60, and I swear, it seems like an idiotic place to put a freeway. It's the middle of nowhere, and they just keep building more developments. WTF?

Anyway, I've started randomly driving up towards Barstow on the 15, then veering west towards Edwards, and then returning on the 14 (to the 405), though sometimes I just say "fark it" and go up the 99 towards Mammoth Lakes and anyway I'm mostly just trying to annoy people by referring to freeways as "the (number)" because so many people complain about that.
 
2020-07-07 6:23:22 PM  

Rambino: puffy999: I think the answer is just "freeways" everywhere. LA, Miami, Portland... when the interstates were built, minority neighborhoods suffered the most.

Question: why is X?

Answer: racism.


Not everything, no. But interstate highway construction? Yeeeees.

And apparently several of us in this thread know that. It's even been addressed by many states recently.
 
2020-07-07 6:23:59 PM  
Submitter apparently has never heard of red lining districts.

People in this thread apparently weren't aware that many suburbs had racial constraints.
 
2020-07-07 6:24:06 PM  

Sean VasDeferens: drjekel_mrhyde: Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.

Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.

I forget which of Obama's aides used to boast about how the average age of a journalist was 27 and the entirety of their life experiences consisted of attending left wing political indoctrinations.  Put them in an echo chamber and you could get them to believe and write anything.

Now I remember it was Ben Rhodes who revealed the very Nazi/Stalin side of the progressive movement during an interview with the NYT.

"Example #1 was revealed earlier this year, when Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes - the brother of CBS News President David Rhodes - literally bragged to the New York Times how easy it was for the administration to dupe reporters when shaping a narrative to their liking.

"All these newspapers used to have foreign bureaus," Rhodes told the Times in May. "Now they don't. They call us to explain to them what's happening in Moscow and Cairo. Most of the outlets are reporting on world events from Washington. The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That's a sea change."  "They literally know nothing."

Rhodes and his assistant, Ned Price, proceeded to boast how the narrative around the unpopular Iran nuclear was relatively easy to establish with a press all too eager to believe what they were being told.
Per the New York Times' David Samuels:
In this environment, Rhodes has become adept at ventriloquizing many people at once. Ned Price, Rhodes's assistant, gave me a primer on how it's done. The easiest way for the White House to shape the news, he explained, is from the briefing podiums, each of which has its own dedicated press corps. "But then there are sort of these force multipliers," he said, adding, "We have our compadres, I will reach out to a couple people, and you know I wouldn't want to name them - "
"I c ...


That's pretty basic manipulation. I got a free pinball machine from my wife's ex by knowing how to remark on it, say I've always wonted one, and just generally imply that it is sitting in a corner of the garage, covered in dust. Immediately he said "Hey, would you like it? No cost.".
 
2020-07-07 6:24:09 PM  
Ever seen Chicago's Dan Ryan expressway?  It's literally segregating the city.
 
2020-07-07 6:25:45 PM  

dericwater: bughunter: I rolled my eyes so hard I tied knots in my optic nerves.

I've lived in LA County for 32 years.  Freeways have been here, what, twice that long?  Three times.

There's been more than sufficient time for people to diffuse across any barriers that the freeway rights of way may have erected.

In fact, in 32 years, I've seen ethnic and economic groups migrate northwards across both the 10 and 210 freeways in the San Gabriel Valley, and westward across both SR-110 and 101.

TFA can go troll in San Diego.

The issue isn't what can be done now, since, as you said, people have figured out how to diffuse across barriers. The issue is that when it occurred 70+ years ago, it gave whites an advantage and put blacks in a disadvantage, and that discrepancy may have lasted perhaps just 5 years. But compound that disadvantage over time and it's actually much larger now.

Suppose you have $10,000. You take half of that and put it into a high-growth mutual fund, earning 7% annual. You take the other half, subtract 30% off the top, put it into a medium growth mutual fund that earns 4% and that is also taxed every year on its growth. Just after 5 years, the differences are quite remarkable. And even if you can move money from the lower-growth to the higher growth, it's already in a deep hole compared to the other fund. The poorly-held fund has to now do even better, for a longer period of time, just to catch up. And that's what racism has done to African Americans and other races, but primarily the African Americans.


OK, but what do you do about it now? Hopefully actually bulldozing the freeways is off the table.
 
2020-07-07 6:25:56 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Interstate 70 in Maryland is one example where it didn't work. They wanted it to connect to I-95 but it would have go right through the neighborhoods of West Baltimore. Instead that plan was abandoned and now Interstate 70 ends in a parking lot.



How would that have helped anything? If you're heading east on 70, go north on 695 to get to 95 north. If you want to get on 95 south, go south on 695.

Realistically the better way now would be to take 29 south off of 70 and then use 100 or 32 to get to 95 south, but those are relatively new roads.
 
2020-07-07 6:27:07 PM  

I Browse: L.A. resident here. I always wondered why there are no freeway onramps and exits in the most expensive parts of the city (Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Malibu, Palos Verdes, Hermosa Beach, Manhattan Beach). You always have to drive to get to them from those places. But in the 'hood? Freeway onramps are everywhere. I guess Santa Monica would be the exception to the rule, since it's pretty expensive overall, and the 10 runs right through it.

I knew about the red train cars we used to have because of a story I read about them years ago. You can still see train tracks today that they never pulled up. Imagine being able to ride a train from downtown all the way to the beach. That must've been very cool.


The South Bay is kind of a special case as the only canceled freeway in wasn't even "in", it was to Hermosa, and the 110 goes all the way into the heart of San Pedro(almost impossible to go farther).  You get about as close as any proposed freeway could to RPV/RH with the 110.
 
2020-07-07 6:29:55 PM  
"I was a complete farking racist 100 years ago and set the cause of black people back immeasurably  but now all you progressives want to do is bring up history.  Just let it go - I've got mine."

Great narrative you farking douchebags.
 
2020-07-07 6:31:44 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Obvious tag still stuck on the 405?

Urban planning in this country is heavily rooted in racism.

Interstate 70 in Maryland is one example where it didn't work. They wanted it to connect to I-95 but it would have go right through the neighborhoods of West Baltimore. Instead that plan was abandoned and now Interstate 70 ends in a parking lot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters​tate_70_in_Maryland

[live.staticflickr.com image 850x637]

[aaroads.com image 850x515]

That's not to mention the fact the creation of the freeway system is what initially spurred the White Flight that occurred in the latter half of the 20th Century.

/Admittedly a road geek
//Will stop geeking out now
///can't think of anything funny or clever for my third slashie


Nice post. 
God, I love it when people are smart on Fark.
 
2020-07-07 6:35:08 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Mikey1969: JFC, people are just never gonna stop with this stupid shiat.

Pretty sure most of this is written by young white people.


ca-times.brightspotcdn.com

Matthew Fleischer

Matthew Fleischer is a senior digital editor in the Opinion section. He is a former L.A. Weekly staff writer and a former senior editor of both LA CityBeat and Pasadena Magazine. His work has been honored by the Overseas Press Club Foundation and Investigative Reporters and Editors. When he's not writing or editing, he's wandering, usually by foot.
 
2020-07-07 6:35:33 PM  
Did none of you learn anything from Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
 
2020-07-07 6:35:36 PM  

UltimaCS: tl;dr black communities didn't command the power to stop highway projects going straight through their neighborhoods, and real estate developers happily used them as demarcation lines into "white side" and "black side".

This opinion piece made for some good background into LA history, but the author is trying to use it as an excuse to downplay the tearing down of monuments.


Fun fact: the 110 in L.A. doesn't divide white and black, but blue and red, and I don't mean repubs and dems.
 
2020-07-07 6:35:54 PM  

dericwater: Suppose you have $10,000. You take half of that and put it into a high-growth mutual fund, earning 7% annual. You take the other half, subtract 30% off the top, put it into a medium growth mutual fund that earns 4% and that is also taxed every year on its growth. Just after 5 years, the differences are quite remarkable. And even if you can move money from the lower-growth to the higher growth, it's already in a deep hole compared to the other fund. The poorly-held fund has to now do even better, for a longer period of time, just to catch up. And that's what racism has done to African Americans and other races, but primarily the African Americans.


Like many people in the basin, they made tons of money selling their homes and leaving those neighborhoods in the late 90s/early 00s.  There's a terrible legacy, but its impact is different than in other areas because of the real estate crunch.
 
2020-07-07 6:36:50 PM  

dericwater: I Browse: L.A. resident here. I ... Santa Monica ...

I always wondered who this saint is. If there's ever a saint that is so aptly named for LA, it's gotta be Santa Monica. The patron saint of hot babes working their tan. Probably a cousin of Saint Tropez.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_M​o​nica

She is remembered and honored in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, albeit on different feast days, for her outstanding Christian virtues, particularly the suffering caused by her husband's adultery

Somewhat fitting, I guess...
 
2020-07-07 6:41:18 PM  
LA is doing a strong push to expand it's public transit system.  There's about five or six transit lines currently under construction around greater Los Angeles right now (at least two are several years late and should have already been up and running).

The thing is, nobody wants to be inside a giant metal tube with a bunch of smelly, coughing strangers right now.  Transit usage fell off a cliff with the lockdown and is much slower to come back (than car traffic) as anybody with a choice (that isn't telecommuting) is driving alone, at least for the short term.

Nobody is tearing down freeways any time soon.
 
2020-07-07 6:42:24 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: How would that have helped anything? If you're heading east on 70, go north on 695 to get to 95 north. If you want to get on 95 south, go south on 695.


It was intended to connect to 83 and 95 in an interchange, which would have relieved congestion on the beltway and allowed direct access to the Inner Harbor from western MD.

Wiki has the original Yellow Book plans:

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
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