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(NPR)   Here's a completely factually correct article that SURELY won't upset anyone, just from the headline alone, most especially those who most need to read it   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Black people, Racism, American Civil War, Race, White people, Slavery, Christian terms, Christianity  
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5575 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 07 Jul 2020 at 9:29 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-07 8:45:29 AM  
Some white Christian leaders have even provided moral and theological reasoning for their reluctance to challenge the existing system. Evangelicals in particular generally prioritize an individual's own salvation experience over social concerns. The primary mission of the church in this view is to win souls for Christ. Working for racial justice, in contrast, may be seen as a "political" issue.
"In that configuration, immorality only lives in the individual person," said Dupont, the religion historian who grew up in Texas. "There's no conception of systemic injustice and systemic sin."


Unless, it's gays having civil rights or being able to get married, say, or women wanting to have an abortion, then conveniently its about how the nation must follow "God's law" or be smited, Am I right?
 
2020-07-07 8:58:08 AM  
First off:

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Second, CSB:  Both sides of my family are Baptist but my father's side is different degrees of Baptist - from really hard core to vehement.  In any case, my father was never religious.  I dropped it myself when I was in 8th grade and shortly after, I asked him why he wasn't religious.  He didn't want to explain the philosophical details but he said the first thing that got him thinking that it's a bunch of bullshiat was, when he was a kid, he noticed the adult men,at the church but outside, would always get together and horribly biatch about someone in the community and various others.  Half the time it was about some African Americans nearby or in general and it was constantly laced with downright hateful racism.  These men would shout "amen!" to messages of peace, forgiveness, charity and kindness inside the church yet walked out for smoke break and talked nothing but hate and resentment.

He was born in the 40s if that gives any perspective.
 
2020-07-07 9:07:38 AM  
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2020-07-07 9:12:59 AM  
The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.
 
2020-07-07 9:31:51 AM  
Reminder the reason the Southern Baptist Church exists in the first place is that they split from the main baptist sect because they wanted to keep slaves.

Probably one in 10 southern baptists know that
 
2020-07-07 9:31:59 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


Well yeah, did you forget when they were using the Bible to justify slavery in the first place? Or justify their actions taken against native peoples?
 
2020-07-07 9:33:36 AM  
Truth hurts.
 
2020-07-07 9:34:03 AM  
I blame the Anglican Church.  In order to be a member of the Anglican clergy, you had to have X years of theological schooling, and during our colonial years the only place you could really get that schooling was in Britain (the nascent Ivies notwithstanding).  This meant that there wasn't enough clergy for the more "moderate" Anglican Church, but the more radical churches (Calvinists, Anabaptists) could thrive because they eschewed the need to be institutionally educated, and focused instead on the ability of the individual to correctly interpret scripture.

This ultimately lead to more Baptists in the United States, over the mainline Protestant denominations, since there were more clergy to spread their particular flavor of religion.  The result was a more radical, individually oriented Protestantism, rather than a more moderate, communal Protestantism.

/And of course after the Revolution, Anglicanism had an identity issue as its Supreme Governor was the foreign head they had just rebelled against.
 
2020-07-07 9:35:08 AM  

MinatoArisato013: Well yeah, did you forget when they were using the Bible to justify slavery in the first place? Or justify their actions taken against native peoples?


No, but Christianity didn't say to do that, people wanted to do that, and then looked to the bible to make themselves feel justified about it. It puts the blame in the wrong spot.
 
2020-07-07 9:35:38 AM  
This country will never be healed until the religious bigots are taken out.
 
2020-07-07 9:38:16 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


Arguably, the smug ignorant certainty of righteousness that often accompanies organized religion of all kinds plays a role.
 
2020-07-07 9:38:58 AM  
The 2nd great awakening of the early 18th century laid a lot of groundwork for the abolitionist movement.
 
2020-07-07 9:39:37 AM  
Um...

US Christianity's racism has roots in European Racism.

It's not like there were no racists in Europe and peole BeCAMe racist when they came to American and became Christian.
 
2020-07-07 9:41:47 AM  
So,what about Christians in the northern states who were opposed to slavery because of their interpretation of the Bible?
 
2020-07-07 9:42:00 AM  
What did Ghandi say about Christians?
 
2020-07-07 9:42:28 AM  
I will take it a step further and say that the racial belief systems in the united states about the inherent superiority of the white man, the glorious struggle of the southern cause, and the ideas of the KKK being the ghosts of soldiers fighting against black and abolitionist ideas are all religious doctrine.

They were never codified as a religion, no prophet tied them up with one big bow (you know, aside from a very tall white Jesus, which is also not historically accurate).  Instead its practitioners would not describe it as a religion, but the belief system is not scientific, and cites pseudo-science in the same way the Catholic church used to cite bad astronomy to hold up the earth-centric solar system.  It is a faith based system that starts with the conclusion and works backward to include those facts that reinforces that conclusion and ignoring all others.

They BELIEVE in these things, they do not KNOW them as facts or figures.
They FEEL these things, they do not REASON them.
 
2020-07-07 9:43:05 AM  
I still have no idea how anyone can read the gospels (much less study them intensively) and come to the conclusion it's about them and their personal salvation.   Literally all Jesus talks about is helping others, not yourself -- all while criticizing organized religion and money.
 
2020-07-07 9:43:28 AM  
Wait, at a time when most Americans were members or active church goers, some of the bad people were active church goers?  Truly an astounding revelation.  Where can I learn more about this new found data analysis and statistical relevancy, NPR?
 
2020-07-07 9:43:36 AM  
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2020-07-07 9:45:23 AM  
FTFA: Among the New Testament verses Thornwell could cite was the Apostle Paul's letter to the Ephesians where he writes, "Slaves, obey your human masters, with fear and trembling and sincerity of heart." (Biblical scholars now discount the relevance of the passage to a consideration of chattel slavery.)

Funny, that. So much for the eternal word of god. Hey, you guys don't suppose it's all convenient bullsh*t, do you?
 
2020-07-07 9:45:58 AM  
"You think about the South being Christian, but this wasn't Christianity," Cross said. "So what happened here in the white church? How did we get to that point?"

Because at its heart, Evangelical Christianity is an Us (the saints vs. Them (the sinners) mentality.  Evangelicals talk a good game about "reaching out to the lost," but the rank and file rarely actual do it. That's what a small number of "missionaries" are for.  But if you sit in a self-styled "evangelical" church on sunday morning you are mostly likely hear a message steeped in exclusion but couched in the language of "love" and "compassion" for "the lost souls."  Speaking from experience here.
 
2020-07-07 9:46:38 AM  

exqqqme: The 2nd great awakening of the early 18th century laid a lot of groundwork for the abolitionist movement.


I mean yea, it's not so much a story of people misusing religion and moral authority, but abdicating that moral authority to people who misuse it.

People from a left wing perspective that use morality and religion to justify their beliefs are incredibly rare today -- but they used to be very common.   The United States at one time had a deep tradition of Christian Socialism.
 
2020-07-07 9:47:59 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I blame the Anglican Church.  In order to be a member of the Anglican clergy, you had to have X years of theological schooling, and during our colonial years the only place you could really get that schooling was in Britain (the nascent Ivies notwithstanding).  This meant that there wasn't enough clergy for the more "moderate" Anglican Church, but the more radical churches (Calvinists, Anabaptists) could thrive because they eschewed the need to be institutionally educated, and focused instead on the ability of the individual to correctly interpret scripture.

This ultimately lead to more Baptists in the United States, over the mainline Protestant denominations, since there were more clergy to spread their particular flavor of religion.  The result was a more radical, individually oriented Protestantism, rather than a more moderate, communal Protestantism.

/And of course after the Revolution, Anglicanism had an identity issue as its Supreme Governor was the foreign head they had just rebelled against.


So, we have the current situation we're in because of the dumbf*cks. Well, Jesus did almost say "Blessed are the dumbfarks for they, uh - I don't know - they shall never be disappointed."
 
2020-07-07 9:48:30 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


"US Christianity" isnt just the belief system as words on paper, it's a living multigenerational social and cultural institution. And white nationalism is absolutely rooted in this institution.
 
2020-07-07 9:49:23 AM  
The Bible has been used to condemn just about every atrocity in the last 2000 years.  It's also been used to justify them

The problem is the manual.  It's a bad manual.  It's unclear.  It's full of evil.  It extols blind obedience--to god, to the state.  Everything that god does is good.  Everything.  Mass murder, filicide, genocide, torture.  And from that god, and from his examples, Christians have received their morals.  After all, "How can you be good without god?"

Wonder, instead, how there are good Christians.
 
2020-07-07 9:49:30 AM  
Among the New Testament verses Thornwell could cite was the Apostle Paul's letter to the Ephesians where he writes, "Slaves, obey your human masters, with fear and trembling and sincerity of heart." (Biblical scholars now discount the relevance of the passage to a consideration of chattel slavery.)

They what now?

There are a bunch of Christian apologists out there who take this line - that "slavery in the Bible was different from slavery in the south, because race."  Well, maybe, but if you asked a slave I'm not sure that they'd be able to perceive much of a difference.  If you're a slave, it's like being the last dog on the sled team - from your perspective, it's all assholes, and I can't imagine that perspective would be different if you were a black dog rather than a white dog.  But for the apologists, they just want to hide the plain fact that the Bible is really really pro-slavery.  So they get to say: "Yeah, Jesus didn't condemn slavery, but you have to remember that the slavery back in his day wasn't the bad kind of slavery."  Note that the Bible doesn't contain any books written from the slave's perspective.
 
2020-07-07 9:49:55 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


People use their religion to justify their views no matter what those views are.

Abolitionists and slaveowners both claimed justification in their religion. So did civil rights advocates and segregationists. MLK Jr. and the Klan purported to find moral support in the same book.

Their religious views didn't make them what they were, only reflected it.

/"...turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
 
2020-07-07 9:51:19 AM  
There are exactly the same people who brought us the "Other Great Experiment" - Prohibition.  The Women's Christian Temperance League was almost the KKK Ladies Auxiliary -- because the Italians, Germans, and exotic Europeans, and especially Catholics -- liked to drink.  Why they even drank alcohol in church services.
 
2020-07-07 9:52:56 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


I don't understand your point.  Wasn't Christianity here in North America before the Was used to justify horrible crimes against humanity before and after the US was formed.  It's not like the US was formed and was racist and the Christianity came later.  You system to be mistaking cause for effect.
 
2020-07-07 9:53:27 AM  

webron: nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.

I don't understand your point.  Wasn't Christianity here in North America before the Was used to justify horrible crimes against humanity before and after the US was formed.  It's not like the US was formed and was racist and the Christianity came later.  You system to be mistaking cause for effect.


You seem to be confusing cause for effect.  FTFM.
 
2020-07-07 9:53:36 AM  
As always, I suggest "A History of White People" by Nell Painter for a nutshell summary of the millennia old history of white supremacy and racism.

Bottom line: it was not invented in America, it was imported like everything else; Anglican Christians had already done a brilliant job of "White good, colored bad" long before America was ever thought of.
 
2020-07-07 9:55:21 AM  

exqqqme: The 2nd great awakening of the early 18th century laid a lot of groundwork for the abolitionist movement.


Dodo David: So,what about Christians in the northern states who were opposed to slavery because of their interpretation of the Bible?


Yeah, it was really the more fundamentalist Southern churches--particularly, as has been mentioned, the Southern Baptists, who were pushed off the bridge for supporting slavery.

There were plenty of other churches that supported abolition and the civil rights movement.  If a church is part of the ecumenical movement, it was probably on the right side of history.  If church believes that members of the National Council of Churches are part of a Satanic, Communist plot to promote "One World Religion," that church was probably on the wrong side.

Church People in the Struggle: The National Council of Churches and the Black Freedom Movement, 1950-1970
https://books.google.com/books/about/​C​hurch_People_in_the_Struggle.html?id=I​b1QI66GwQwC

A theology for racism: Southern Fundamentalists and the civil rights movement.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+theo​l​ogy+for+racism%3A+Southern+Fundamental​ists+and+the+civil+rights...-a09416090​6
 
2020-07-07 9:55:30 AM  
I have a non-white (Pacific Islander) aunt and uncle that started going to a far right White evangelical church, and they drank the cool-aid hardcore.  It is so weird seeing them defend the Confederacy and denounce black civil rights leaders, but then also talk about injustices inflicted on Polynesians and the erosion of their cultures.  I just can't get my head around it.

And while Christianity and white supremacy are intimately linked in America, it is a little more complicated than that.  The abolitionists were also deeply Christian, and if they hadn't infused their movement with religious fervor I don't know if they would have been as successful.  And much of the Black civil rights movement was organized in churches.  He was the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr after all.
 
2020-07-07 9:55:53 AM  

nmrsnr: MinatoArisato013: Well yeah, did you forget when they were using the Bible to justify slavery in the first place? Or justify their actions taken against native peoples?

No, but Christianity didn't say to do that, people wanted to do that, and then looked to the bible to make themselves feel justified about it. It puts the blame in the wrong spot.


Christianity consists entirely of what Christians *say* and *do*.
 
2020-07-07 9:57:06 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I blame the Anglican Church.  In order to be a member of the Anglican clergy, you had to have X years of theological schooling, and during our colonial years the only place you could really get that schooling was in Britain (the nascent Ivies notwithstanding).  This meant that there wasn't enough clergy for the more "moderate" Anglican Church, but the more radical churches (Calvinists, Anabaptists) could thrive because they eschewed the need to be institutionally educated, and focused instead on the ability of the individual to correctly interpret scripture.

This ultimately lead to more Baptists in the United States, over the mainline Protestant denominations, since there were more clergy to spread their particular flavor of religion.  The result was a more radical, individually oriented Protestantism, rather than a more moderate, communal Protestantism.

/And of course after the Revolution, Anglicanism had an identity issue as its Supreme Governor was the foreign head they had just rebelled against.

So, we have the current situation we're in because of the dumbf*cks. Well, Jesus did almost say "Blessed are the dumbfarks for they, uh - I don't know - they shall never be disappointed."

Sola Scriptura

was the anti-Vaxx movement of the time.

/My theological hot take.
 
2020-07-07 9:59:06 AM  

SecondaryControl: The Bible has been used to condemn just about every atrocity in the last 2000 years.  It's also been used to justify them

The problem is the manual.  It's a bad manual.  It's unclear.  It's full of evil.  It extols blind obedience--to god, to the state.  Everything that god does is good.  Everything.  Mass murder, filicide, genocide, torture.  And from that god, and from his examples, Christians have received their morals.  After all, "How can you be good without god?"

Wonder, instead, how there are good Christians.


I thought the whole idea of Christianity was to follow the teachings of Christ. Sure, god was a genocidal mainiac in the old testament, but that was just for reference to how we got up to Jesus. Today's Christians don't give a damn about the teachings of Jesus, because it's not what they want to hear.
 
2020-07-07 10:00:38 AM  

UberDave: First off:

[Fark user image image 604x448]

Second, CSB:  Both sides of my family are Baptist but my father's side is different degrees of Baptist - from really hard core to vehement.  In any case, my father was never religious.  I dropped it myself when I was in 8th grade and shortly after, I asked him why he wasn't religious.  He didn't want to explain the philosophical details but he said the first thing that got him thinking that it's a bunch of bullshiat was, when he was a kid, he noticed the adult men,at the church but outside, would always get together and horribly biatch about someone in the community and various others.  Half the time it was about some African Americans nearby or in general and it was constantly laced with downright hateful racism.  These men would shout "amen!" to messages of peace, forgiveness, charity and kindness inside the church yet walked out for smoke break and talked nothing but hate and resentment.

He was born in the 40s if that gives any perspective.


This is why the far-right consider church to be an "essential" business.

Without their regular fix of "look at me and my family, dressed in our Godly best, making our weekly pilgrimage to our chosen house of worship to sing our praises to the Lord", how else are these guys going to pretend to be Christians?

What else are they supposed to do? Follow the actual teachings of Jesus Christ. You and I both know that ain't happening.

Seriously, right when I quit Facebook, the Venn Diagram of "friends" who would post their weekly Sunday School photos and those who would comment "if those people didn't want their children locked up, they shouldn't have tried to come here illegally" was a perfect circle.
 
2020-07-07 10:02:06 AM  
You can defend any kind of bullsh*t with a Biblical story. Genocide, adultery, slavery, racial superiority. Especially when you compound this with the fact that religious people are brainwashed practically from an early age to magical thinking and blind acceptance of these garbage stories. Once you turn off the critical thinking spigot, you can imprint a human being any way you want. Want him to kill for you? Want him to throw a bomb into a church or an abortion clinic? Totally doable. Just find the most mentally unstable, there are plenty of them and they go to church every weekend.

Why is Scientology a dangerous cult of made-up bullsh*t and Evangelical Christianity is not? The answer is that they both are dangerous cults.
 
2020-07-07 10:02:14 AM  

Cortez the Killer: SecondaryControl: The Bible has been used to condemn just about every atrocity in the last 2000 years.  It's also been used to justify them

The problem is the manual.  It's a bad manual.  It's unclear.  It's full of evil.  It extols blind obedience--to god, to the state.  Everything that god does is good.  Everything.  Mass murder, filicide, genocide, torture.  And from that god, and from his examples, Christians have received their morals.  After all, "How can you be good without god?"

Wonder, instead, how there are good Christians.

I thought the whole idea of Christianity was to follow the teachings of Christ. Sure, god was a genocidal mainiac in the old testament, but that was just for reference to how we got up to Jesus. Today's Christians don't give a damn about the teachings of Jesus, because it's not what they want to hear.


The "idea" was to get people to fall in line; a tool for social engineering if you will. Now that we don't need it, the only people left reading that trash are the insane.
 
2020-07-07 10:03:53 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


It's pretty human to only acknowledge the stuff we like and ignore the rest.

The parable of the good Samaritan, of course, is RIGHT OUT.
 
2020-07-07 10:04:28 AM  

nmrsnr: MinatoArisato013: Well yeah, did you forget when they were using the Bible to justify slavery in the first place? Or justify their actions taken against native peoples?

No, but Christianity didn't say to do that, people wanted to do that, and then looked to the bible to make themselves feel justified about it. It puts the blame in the wrong spot.


The Bible does not condemn slavery as an institution.

Oh, sure, it celebrates liberation for people that God likes, gives instructions on how to take slaves and some rules for what you can and can't do with slaves in the Old Testament, and says in the New Testament that slaves and free people are equal spiritually (so you shouldn't worry too much about whether you're a slave or free,) but it doesn't give a full-throated "slavery should be stopped from existing" admonition.

1700 years after the New Testament was written, American Christians used this fact to argue "If God didn't want slavery to be a thing, he would have said so."
 
2020-07-07 10:06:01 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


I dunno. If you accept the historical consensus that racism, as we know it, is a consequence of the African slave trade, then the two developed pretty concurrently.
 
2020-07-07 10:06:23 AM  

bdub77: Especially when you compound this with the fact that religious people are brainwashed practically from an early age to magical thinking and blind acceptance of these garbage stories.


...which is hilarious in part because Jesus spoke in parables.  He wanted the people (those who "have an ear") to actually think.

Lololol.  That didn't work out too well, now did it?
 
2020-07-07 10:11:14 AM  

nmrsnr: MinatoArisato013: Well yeah, did you forget when they were using the Bible to justify slavery in the first place? Or justify their actions taken against native peoples?

No, but Christianity didn't say to do that, people wanted to do that, and then looked to the bible to make themselves feel justified about it. It puts the blame in the wrong spot.


Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your antiquated belief system, I suppose 🤷♂
 
2020-07-07 10:15:36 AM  

nmrsnr: The headline is a bit cart before the horse.

It wasn't that racism had its roots in US Christianity, it's that the US was racist, and US Christianity molded itself to fit that ideology. It enabled racists to not only not feel guilty, but morally justified in their racism.


Christianity has been about subjugating people, since the Council of Nicaea, at least.
 
2020-07-07 10:18:11 AM  

Xythero: I have a non-white (Pacific Islander) aunt and uncle that started going to a far right White evangelical church, and they drank the cool-aid hardcore.  It is so weird seeing them defend the Confederacy and denounce black civil rights leaders, but then also talk about injustices inflicted on Polynesians and the erosion of their cultures.  I just can't get my head around it.

And while Christianity and white supremacy are intimately linked in America, it is a little more complicated than that.  The abolitionists were also deeply Christian, and if they hadn't infused their movement with religious fervor I don't know if they would have been as successful.  And much of the Black civil rights movement was organized in churches.  He was the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr after all.


He was an enlightened exception in the time period (and still is in many ways). He also recognized and called 11am Sunday the most segregated hour in America.
 
2020-07-07 10:18:20 AM  
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2020-07-07 10:18:30 AM  

moresugar: Among the New Testament verses Thornwell could cite was the Apostle Paul's letter to the Ephesians where he writes, "Slaves, obey your human masters, with fear and trembling and sincerity of heart." (Biblical scholars now discount the relevance of the passage to a consideration of chattel slavery.)

They what now?

There are a bunch of Christian apologists out there who take this line - that "slavery in the Bible was different from slavery in the south, because race."  Well, maybe, but if you asked a slave I'm not sure that they'd be able to perceive much of a difference.  If you're a slave, it's like being the last dog on the sled team - from your perspective, it's all assholes, and I can't imagine that perspective would be different if you were a black dog rather than a white dog.  But for the apologists, they just want to hide the plain fact that the Bible is really really pro-slavery.  So they get to say: "Yeah, Jesus didn't condemn slavery, but you have to remember that the slavery back in his day wasn't the bad kind of slavery."  Note that the Bible doesn't contain any books written from the slave's perspective.


Hebrew slavery (as in, slavery in which Hebrews were enslaved to other Hebrews) was essentially 7 years of indentured servitude to work off debt.  It wasn't as bad as US Chattel slavery.  Of course, the Hebrews could also enslave non-hebrews for life, and any children born of those slaves were also the property of the Hebrew master, so that was every bit as bad as US Chattel slavery, and could be viewed as the model for the same.  And there was a provision wherein Hebrew slaves could remain slaves for life.  Basically if the Hebrew married another of his master's slaves and decided that when his 7 years are up he doesn't want to be parted from his wife he could voluntarily submit to lifetime enslavement under the "non-Hebrew" rules.
 
2020-07-07 10:19:41 AM  
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2020-07-07 10:19:50 AM  

Dodo David: So,what about Christians in the northern states who were opposed to slavery because of their interpretation of the Bible?


Just goes to show the Bible can be used to justify anything, which makes it pretty worthless for moral guidance.

/the people who do good based on the Bible cherry-pick what they like about it just as much as the people who do bad
 
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