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(Nat. Center for Sci. Edu)   Percent of high school biology teachers teaching evolution as settled science goes from 51% to 67% from 2007 to 2019. What the fark is wrong with 33% of biology teachers?   (ncse.ngo) divider line
    More: Murica, Education, Teacher, NCSE's deputy director Glenn Branch, results of the recent NCSE, Penn State, state science standards, School, appropriate treatment of evolution  
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298 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 07 Jul 2020 at 7:07 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-07-06 11:23:51 PM  
14 votes:
Probably live in states where they can't teach it.
 
2020-07-06 11:22:39 PM  
14 votes:
They're actually the sportsball coach.
 
2020-07-07 2:48:19 AM  
9 votes:
journeyfree.orgView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 3:30:27 AM  
8 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 8:38:58 AM  
6 votes:

hestheone: I'm not sure how much 'settled science' is actually fact.

// yeah, the earth isn't flat but it's not round, either.


Round != Perfect sphere
 
2020-07-07 12:02:18 PM  
5 votes:

jjorsett: Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.


And yet none of the scientists I know spend their time worrying about whether or not rocks fall up.
 
2020-07-07 7:58:05 AM  
5 votes:
Ah, religion. It poisons everything it touches.

Fark user imageView Full Size


98 years ago. farking hell.
 
2020-07-07 7:43:48 AM  
5 votes:

Gordon Bennett: [Fark user image image 457x584]


I love the footer quote, and I love even more that this is from 2005
 
2020-07-07 2:47:47 PM  
4 votes:

jjorsett: Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.


Then you don't know what is meant by "settled science".

Evolution (and more specifically the mechanism called natural selection) is "settled science" because every piece of collected physical evidence we have points to it being true.  There isn't a collection of evidence that contradicts it.   And the more we learn, the more solid that assertion becomes.  There isn't a single hypothesis opposing it with any evidence whatsoever.  Period.

This sits in opposition to something like Newtonian understandings of motion and gravity, or the Bohr model of the atom.  While they stood for a time, there were a lot of holes and natural phenomena that didn't add up under those models, even when they were first proposed.  They were later replaced with other models in the 1900s, and while they are far better than what came before, are still incomplete and incompatible with various physical realities we encounter.
 
2020-07-07 12:58:37 PM  
4 votes:

jjorsett: Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.


and

Benjimin_Dover: The other 33% are better teachers and know that science is never "settled?"


You are quite mistaken.  Science is of course always open to overturning existing beliefs in light of newer, stronger evidence to the contrary.  However there are many things for which we can have high confidence that they aren't going to be overturned by newer, stronger contradictory evidence.  Things that are very well studied.  Lets say biology... a human will die if they loose too much blood (before being able to replenish it over time).  That's settled biology right there.  That's a fact.  It isn't dogma because if you can provide a stronger body of evidence that a human can live without blood, we'd all accept that.  There are plenty of things just like that.

The fact that gravity exist is settled science.  Some of the finer details themselves are still being studied, but yes there is a very solid body of consistent evidence that gravity exists, and it is very unlikely to be overturned because it is very unlikely you'll find stronger evidence to the contrary.  Biological evolution falls under this category.  That is settled science.  Some of the finer details are still open for study, but it most certainly happened.  That is what a very abundant amount of consistent evidence tells us.

Science can absolutely be settled because we live in a work where things can be observed.   Hypothesis can be tested and re-tested again for verification (there will be your peers looking over your work trying to find flaws in your methods and invalidate your results).  To say "the science is never settled" is as silly as to say "the math is never settled".  You are just trying to leave wiggle room for "the unknowable" (god) to be inserted into everything aka "god of the gaps".
 
2020-07-07 8:45:34 AM  
4 votes:

Bloomin Bloomberg: oh man, a fark evolution thread. I haven't seen one of these in a long time. It doesn't have the same level of viritol it used to, and it lacks the fire and fury of an "Iraq War" thread, or the sneering, snobbish disdain of a "gay marriage" thread (ah, but we don't see many of those any more). It's an entertaining reminder of a more civilized time.


We barely even have entertaining religion threads anymore. Back in the day, you'd post a link about some random MRI study that found that meditating people light up their brains, and you'd have a handful of people who'd argue at length that this was proof of some spooky force (i.e. God) affecting life from outside the universe, and within a few hours you'd get to argue the minutiae of every crackpot's pet theory on the structure of reality.

Nowadays pretty much all we get is threads about evangelicals supporting Trump, at which point the thread fills up with people who all seem to agree that only the people they like are real Christians. It's kind of repetitive. The last one I saw that remotely approached they level of the 2006-2010 heyday was a thread about 6 months where one guy popped in and accused everyone in the thread who said they "used to be religious" of lying because they didn't phrase things the way he liked and threatened everyone with hell, but I kind of felt he was playing a part.
 
2020-07-07 8:22:33 AM  
4 votes:

FlashHarry: Ah, religion. It poisons everything it touches.

[Fark user image 495x750]

98 years ago. farking hell.


Well, he certainly did believe that white people are more advanced from an evolutionary standpoint than black people.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi​c​s/2015/11/20/9766896/woodrow-wilson-ra​cist
 
2020-07-07 11:12:18 AM  
3 votes:
Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.
 
2020-07-07 10:42:21 AM  
3 votes:

big pig peaches: 95% of them are probably tired of having to listen to parants biatching.


In many smaller towns, this is basically how it goes.  They don't want to deal with the torrent of crap from parent every single schoolyear for several months.  So after covering the basic concept of natural selection once or twice in late elementary school, they teach zoology and biology in HS as if natural selection was already well-understood and accepted by the students, and never address it directly again.  When pinned down on the specific topic, they generally dodge the question and lean on taxonomic structures and closely related structural discussions.

This was extremely common in schools I attended both on the east cost and the plains states growing up.
 
2020-07-07 8:56:21 AM  
3 votes:
Martian_Astronomer:Pining for the old days

Soooo you're saying:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 8:32:04 AM  
3 votes:

Bloomin Bloomberg: oh man, a fark evolution thread. I haven't seen one of these in a long time. It doesn't have the same level of viritol it used to, and it lacks the fire and fury of an "Iraq War" thread, or the sneering, snobbish disdain of a "gay marriage" thread (ah, but we don't see many of those any more). It's an entertaining reminder of a more civilized time.


Well, I don't think a certain Farker comes here anymore, so he can't be summoned.
 
2020-07-07 8:09:23 AM  
3 votes:
"Evolution is a fact not a theory"

                           - Carl Sagan, Cosmos
 
2020-07-07 7:49:28 AM  
3 votes:

Mr_Vimes: What the fark is wrong with 33% of biology teachers?

They're the poster children for regressive evolution.


Consequence of the local control of curriculum in the schools.  Much as I'm areligious and a big science fan, I wouldn't have it any other way.  Sure, there are downsides to local control of school curriculum, but think about this:

Do you want Donald Trump in charge of what your kids teachers are allowed to teach?
 
2020-07-07 1:46:09 AM  
3 votes:

wejash: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: They're actually the sportsball coach.

See, you think you're funny.

Our HS chemistry teacher was also the swim and water polo coach. He almost made the Olympic squad ..
And not for sciences.


Pfft. My school's football coach was the principal's son. He also taught "American Goverment", which he proudly proclaimed he got a D in in college.

Dumb as a bag of rocks, but the football team went to the state finals.  Priorities, people.

/full disclosure: I was in marching band and we went to state finals, too.
 
2020-07-07 4:31:09 PM  
2 votes:

Khellendros: jjorsett: Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.

Then you don't know what is meant by "settled science".

Evolution (and more specifically the mechanism called natural selection) is "settled science" because every piece of collected physical evidence we have points to it being true.  There isn't a collection of evidence that contradicts it.   And the more we learn, the more solid that assertion becomes.  There isn't a single hypothesis opposing it with any evidence whatsoever.  Period.

This sits in opposition to something like Newtonian understandings of motion and gravity, or the Bohr model of the atom.  While they stood for a time, there were a lot of holes and natural phenomena that didn't add up under those models, even when they were first proposed.  They were later replaced with other models in the 1900s, and while they are far better than what came before, are still incomplete and incompatible with various physical realities we encounter.


Technically, we still use Newtonian physics for stuff.  It holds up well until you start getting into the really edge cases, and it makes the math easier.
 
2020-07-07 10:44:47 AM  
2 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: The other 33% are better teachers and know that science is never "settled?"


Opposition on the basis of pedantry to using the word 'settled' as shorthand for 'an abundance of evidence so overwhelming to render competing theories fanciful' in order to challenge the actual premise that evolution's evidence is so overwhelmingly more plausible and demonstrable than other explanations is the behavior of a fundamentally dishonest person.
 
2020-07-07 9:26:56 AM  
2 votes:
What the fark is wrong with 33% of biology teachers?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 8:07:43 AM  
2 votes:
The other 33% are better teachers and know that science is never "settled?"
 
2020-07-07 7:21:56 AM  
2 votes:
What the fark is wrong with 33% of biology teachers?

They're the poster children for regressive evolution.
 
2020-07-07 6:25:25 AM  
2 votes:
As someone who was never taught evolution in high school, I'm getting a kick...

I grew up in an area where the population was/is overwhelmingly white Evangelical. I know that because parents biatched it was policy that they could opt their kids out of sex ed, so I'm sure that not teaching evolution was the result of something similar.
 
2020-07-08 9:36:28 AM  
1 vote:

Benjimin_Dover: Maybe not you, but most people who use the term settled are those that desperately need something to remain the way it is and will shout down anybody, including scientists, who bring forth anything that threatens that.


Most people who use the term "settled science" are scientists.  When you have 100% of a field's evidence indicating that a theory is correct, and literally zero evidence that any other model is right, it's called "settled" because there's no controversy.

Settled doesn't mean incontrovertibly correct for all time with no chance to change it, it means there's no longer an argument/debate to settle.
 
2020-07-07 10:51:12 PM  
1 vote:

Benjimin_Dover: 006andahalf: Benjimin_Dover: The other 33% are better teachers and know that science is never "settled?"

Opposition on the basis of pedantry to using the word 'settled' as shorthand for 'an abundance of evidence so overwhelming to render competing theories fanciful' in order to challenge the actual premise that evolution's evidence is so overwhelmingly more plausible and demonstrable than other explanations is the behavior of a fundamentally dishonest person.

Well, at one point in time, it was settled science that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe. Only science deniers use the term.


That's BS and you ought to know it.  It's transparent you come up with these contortions to undermine a version of reality that opposes whatever it is your belief system requires.
 
2020-07-07 10:37:41 PM  
1 vote:
Benjimin_Dover:

Well, at one point in time, it was settled science that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.
I believe I already addressed this nonsense from you just a few posts higher.  But lets do it again.
1.  It was once BELIEVED that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.  However that has NOTHING to do with science.
2.The idea that only science deniers would say "the science is settled" is patently false.  On the contrary... the only people I've seen take issue with that are themselves science deniers - who want to pretend and/or appear as though they respect science.

This thread is no exception.  You are no exception.  You don't respect science.  You merely respect the abstract idea of "science" as you imagine it to be, but resent that the body of evidence - derived from following the scientific method - could possibly indicate that you yourself are mistaken about the things you believe.  Saying "the science is never settled" is you giving yourself the wiggle room to continue believing as you prefer rather than as the overwhelming evidence points.  If you actually respected science, you'd adjust your views to match the evidence as it stands.
 
2020-07-07 11:59:47 AM  
1 vote:

jjorsett: Any time I see the words, "Settled science", I know I'm dealing with people who are anti-science. When you've decided that an issue is closed because we know for a certainty that it's one way, it's not science any more, it's belief and dogma.


That's silly. There is a lot of settled science. It just depends on how deep you want to go.
 
2020-07-07 10:26:33 AM  
1 vote:

hestheone: I'm not sure how much 'settled science' is actually fact.

// yeah, the earth isn't flat but it's not round, either.


I myself am an oblate spheroider, with tidal anomalies
 
2020-07-07 9:08:49 AM  
1 vote:

meanmutton: The only thing I remember about my bio class Freshman year of high school (that's 9th grade for the non-Americans out there) was the teacher being visibly nervous about explaining why we were talking about evolution and only evolution in class. It was odd to me that anyone would have a problem with it. But I grew up in a well-educated area where the religious folks were Catholic or Jewish and we didn't have a lot of evangelicals. It took me a couple years before I realized that yeah, there absolutely are some kids who would make a giant scene about a teacher teaching science in a science class.


Meh.

I took biology in the early 1980's in a town that is the World headquarters for a large, international evangelical born-again Christian organization.  Evolution is what was taught in the local public school, and no one questioned it.
 
2020-07-07 7:52:42 AM  
1 vote:

Shakin_Haitian: One of the reasons for low teacher pay is that it makes it easier to justify hiring unqualified evangelicals. Evangelicals also push their daughters hard to become teachers.


Doesn't that book of fairy tales they're so obsessed with say that women aren't allowed to teach, or is that more contradiction?
 
2020-07-07 7:46:19 AM  
1 vote:
One of the reasons for low teacher pay is that it makes it easier to justify hiring unqualified evangelicals. Evangelicals also push their daughters hard to become teachers.
 
2020-07-07 1:08:54 AM  
1 vote:

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: They're actually the sportsball coach.


See, you think you're funny.

Our HS chemistry teacher was also the swim and water polo coach. He almost made the Olympic squad ..
And not for sciences.
 
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