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(The Atlantic)   When did J.K. Rowling go from being Hermione to...well, the article says Voldemort but she's really acting like Umbridge   (theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Creepy, Harry Potter fandom, J. K. Rowling, pieces of fan fiction, books' author, major fan sites, love of Harry Potter, eighth Harry Potter book, Leaky Cauldron  
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1051 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 Jul 2020 at 7:42 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-07-07 8:00:08 AM  
36 votes:
Here's a great twitter thread from a trans person about how misinformation about trans folks promotes and exacerbates the conditions which lead to the murder of trans people. https://threadreaderapp.com/t​hread/127​9858678380802048.html
 
2020-07-07 8:16:35 AM  
34 votes:
At this point, JK Rowling has become this generation's H.P. Lovecraft.

She created a fantastic world, with a lot of interesting lore that people will be talking about for ages. There will be fanfiction, movies, tv series, video games of the world she has created. The world she made will far outlive her.

However, the person behind those works has willfully chosen to be on the wrong side of history. The author's personal stances will forever color the perception of the fans and the general consensus will be to appreciate the works, but reject the person who made them.
 
2020-07-07 8:21:06 AM  
29 votes:

Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?


Because she's a TERF. Her particular anti-transgender mindset is rooted in feminism, she (incorrectly) believes trans women should be excluded in order to protect women both physically and socially, that including trans women as women undermines "real" women. So when you tell her to stop talking, she's not hearing that as legitimate criticism of her bigotry, she's hearing that as you being anti-feminist. So she keeps talking because she is trying to be a good person and defend women, she's just doing it in an incredibly hurtful and disrespectful way.
 
2020-07-07 7:54:59 AM  
28 votes:
Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?
 
2020-07-07 7:51:08 AM  
24 votes:
When was she ever Hermione?
 
2020-07-07 8:47:15 AM  
23 votes:

Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions. call you out when you say stupid  shiat.


FTFY.
 
2020-07-07 8:47:53 AM  
22 votes:

bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.


It's not me i'm worried about, it's the LITERAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS who are citing her manifesto in an effort to stop "the gay agenda".

She has a platform, so like it or not she's an influencer and we HAVE to engage with her.
 
2020-07-07 8:07:19 AM  
21 votes:
If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.
 
2020-07-07 8:31:04 AM  
20 votes:

Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.


You mean like having to stand for the farkin' national anthem?
 
2020-07-07 7:57:48 AM  
20 votes:
She comes off downright unhinged on this issue.
 
2020-07-07 8:40:04 AM  
19 votes:
While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.
 
2020-07-07 4:12:13 PM  
17 votes:
Hey, it's me. One of those scary scary trans women you're trying to tell where she's allowed/not allowed to pee. You want to force me into the men's bathroom where I'll be targeted for assault? Where I'll be outed against my will in public? F*ck you to death with an iron cactus.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 8:39:18 AM  
15 votes:

bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.


The trouble is she has so many followers on her twitter, that if her bigoted beliefs aren't countered, then that will make life worse for the transgender community.
 
2020-07-07 5:39:15 AM  
15 votes:
Even the rich and famous are imperfect. News at 11.
 
2020-07-07 10:55:16 AM  
14 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Many XX individuals in this world were born as full biological males.  And many XY individuals in this world were born as full biological females.

So it can't be as simple as just the chromosome, now can it?

So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structure

https://www.livescience.com/27248-chro​mosomes.html

How sex is determined
Humans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.
Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.
All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.


Please expand on that answer since it appears you have more knowledge on the subject than I.


The only thing that matters is whether the adrenal glands start pumping out testosterone in the right quantity at the right time.

This is controlled by a region called SRY which is normally found on the Y chromosome.  However
- that region can be damaged, rendering it a pseudo-gene
- that region can be transposed to the X chromosome during meiosis
- other hormones that affect sex development (like cortisol) might not be produced in sufficient quantities to keep the testosterone working as it should
- etc. etc. etc.  Textbooks exist simply covering all the ways that sex selection can go sideways.

So, since you now admit you are completely ignorant on this topic, why do you think anyone should take your opinion on it seriously?
 
2020-07-07 3:21:40 PM  
13 votes:

trialpha: Geotpf: So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

Since trans advocates are arguing "transwomen are women", yes.

And they wonder why people have a problem with that.


This is a minor, piddling concern that isn't handled in the dozens of cases and abnormalities I cited above either.  At this point, we're talking about rights to use bathrooms and not be assumed to be a sexual predator, or to have legal rights to change your gender on state forms, or not be fired, or have rights to housing.

Sports has ALWAYS handled sex/gender poorly, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.  We didn't stop the argument about whether to end Jim Crow based on whether black people had to wear reflectors at night because they're harder to see in the dark, and we didn't stop the fight for same-sex marriage because the wedding cake industry wasn't getting a tax kickback from the government to design same sex wedding toppers.

If your argument against legal protections and equality for transpersons is based on whether someone in a weightlifting competition has a penis or too much testosterone, go reexamine your basic ethics and human empathy.  You're not useful to the conversation and your opinion isn't worth evaluating.
 
2020-07-07 9:46:51 AM  
13 votes:

CanisNoir: We do not make the rules based on the exception but rather the norm that can be quantified.


Any explanation (or rule) which does not account for all possibilities is not a scientific explanation.  Scientists doesn't ignore things which are inconvenient to their claims, they modify their claims to account for them.

Pseudo-science, on the other hand, ignores things which contradict its claims.

Science is the search for the truth, which means it doesn't get to ignore empirical reality just because reality throws a monkey-wrench into what people wants to believe.
 
2020-07-07 8:48:25 AM  
13 votes:

Bloomin Bloomberg: huh. today's "JK Rowling hate" thread is early.

keep fighting the good fight JK -the civilized majority science and medical-denying bigots stands with you.


FTFY
 
2020-07-07 8:22:16 AM  
13 votes:

bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.


Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.
 
2020-07-07 8:58:52 AM  
12 votes:

meanmutton: Bloomin Bloomberg: huh. today's "JK Rowling hate" thread is early.

keep fighting the good fight JK -the civilized majority science and medical-denying bigots stands with you.

FTFY


This confuses me, "Gender is a social construct that is separate from Sex" has no basis in scientific reasoning and cannot be proven through the Scientific Method. It's just a philosophical thought experiment at this point.

So which side are you calling "science and medical-denying bigots" ?
 
2020-07-07 10:00:53 AM  
11 votes:

CanisNoir: This confuses me, "Gender is a social construct that is separate from Sex" has no basis in scientific reasoning and cannot be proven through the Scientific Method. It's just a philosophical thought experiment at this point.


That is true.  But the contrary claim can be disproved, and has been.

We see, throughout the world, that different cultures define genders differently, and often independently of biological sex.  Therefore the claim that "gender" must be connected to biological sex is false.
 
2020-07-07 9:48:04 AM  
11 votes:

CanisNoir: Enomai: God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.

As exhausting as it is for Lesbians having to defend themselves against accusations of Bigotry because they feel that not liking male sex organs is a large part of their Lesbian Identity.

Yes, it's exhausting but it's a debate that needs to be had.


If it needs to be had, I have questions as to whether an anonymous forum as snarky as this place would be the appropriate venue for it. Lesbians might not be attracted to male parts, but pansexuals probably do not have an issue with them since sex isn't the primary vector for attraction. Why then isn't it sufficient to just say that you aren't into those people? If you aren't bigoted then don't take offense when someone tries to label you as such. You have agency as much as anyone does to choose a partner for yourself. I'm a southerner who doesn't fly confederate flags and thinks racism is one of THE things holding back humanity. The mocking in the public space of the "south will rise" jackasses doesn't land with me and doesn't make me defensive.

I am curious about something you said upthread though. How do you expand upon your statement that trans has no basis is scientific reasoning or is unobservable via the scientific method? Over a broad enough sample group, this variance certainly appears and is observed on a repeated basis. This observation has occurred in cultures older than our own.
 
2020-07-07 4:06:04 PM  
10 votes:

Trik: Eclectic: TERF

I see toxic liberals have a new catchphrase to shriek at people who disagree with them.
Along with the old reliable bigot and racist, along with the newish incel.

There are many more but those are the immediate fallbacks and most quickly used.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 3:41:35 PM  
10 votes:

trialpha: Bathrooms - are they sex or gender based? Many would argue sex. This is probably one of the biggest sticking points, since it requires the general public to modify their behavior. Good luck with that.


See, this is where you completely trip over your own argument.  The public doesn't have to change shiat.  Stop bugging people about what goddamn bathroom they use.  I don't have to change a damn thing about my bathroom habits, regardless of whether a transperson decides to use the bathroom I'm in or not.  Leave.  Them.  The.  Fark.  Alone.  About.  It.

trialpha: Transwomen are not female sex.


Utterly irrelevant, and people like you seem to have a pathological need to make definitions based on biological distinctions you clearly don't understand to exclude people.  We don't need to have the lunch counter argument again.  We don't need "separate but equal" bathrooms based on gender, sex, genitalia, testosterone levels, Y chromosome tests, or anything else.

trialpha: Yeah, immediately screaming at anyone not 100% on board certainly helps the trans cause.


I didn't scream.  I said if people's arguments are based on stupid idea, they're not worth discussing.  Telling someone who's convinced that blacks shouldn't have the same rights until we define if they need to wear reflectors at night while jogging isn't a worthwhile discussion. And they're idiots if they're making those arguments.  Same with sporting classifications or whether bathrooms should be based on sex, gender, or some other arbitrary concept.  I don't give a fark if JK Rowling is uncomfortable with someone in the stall next to her.  If they're in there pissing, leave them alone about it.
 
2020-07-07 3:05:36 PM  
10 votes:

CanisNoir: So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structurehttps://www.livescience.com/2​7248-chromosomes.htmlHow sex is determinedHumans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.


This is a very good middle school explanation.  But it's a statistical argument focusing on a general case.

Among a sizable portion of the population, there is a significant disconnect between the bits between their legs, the chromosomes they carry, and the juices flowing in their bodies.  There are many people with a penis who have XX chromosomes, or XY with a vagina.  There are some that have both.  There are some with XXY (Klinfelters and non-Klinefelters), XYY, XXXY, XXYY, XO, and other combinations as well.

Many have completely disparate sexual or genital development from their general physical appearance, looking completely one sex, but their genitals identify them as oppositely.  Then you have to add in issues like Turner's syndrome, and the wide varieties of hermaphroditism - which have about 5 variations in humans with dozens of defined subtypes with different physical consequences.  Then we move to developmental abnormalities that create different hormonal profiles that are as different from typically male and female as those are from each other.

We can then move onto non-hormonal developmental disorders that alter genitalia, gender expression, and physical development.  More of those than can be reasonably listed here.  After all of this, we can begin to talk about gender.  But even sex is far more complex than the existence of a Y chromosome in humans.
 
2020-07-07 12:44:29 PM  
10 votes:

Eclectic: Third thread in three days where all the trans Farkers get to watch as their existence and validity is endlessly debated like some intellectual exercise. Party bonus that there's a sealioning concern troll account that's risen from the vasty deeps to shiat all over the place.

Too f*cking exhausted to really engage at this point. Have fun, kids.


As exhausting as this has to have been for you as of late, you should know this: About a month ago, I asked in a thread a few clinical type questions around certain aspects of the trans experience. One person got personally annoyed with me and responded as such. Others pointed me towards what I was asking about. I looked for additional cultural examples and continued to follow the threads and do my own reading. Today, I am in this thread trying to shoulder some of the intellectual load discussing things with the some of the other non empathetic readers. I'm not perfect by any means, but I'm in this thread today trying to help as a result of people sharing the info and having the patience to answer. I know it's exhausting and it would be great if you didn't have to do it nigh constantly, but it does help.Sometimes at least.
 
2020-07-07 10:37:57 AM  
10 votes:
Not sure if CanisNoir is ever coming back.  But I will provide a hint:

It isn't actually the pretense or absence of the Y chromosome that determines whether you get a male human or a female one.  It is far more subtle and complicated than that.  But most Farkers who like to blather about gender being related to sex never learned biology past high school (if even then), so they don't have any clue how things like this actually work.
 
2020-07-07 8:58:40 AM  
10 votes:

Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.


They were books written for children. Children do not analyze story books on this level, because they're children.
 
2020-07-07 8:29:13 AM  
10 votes:

Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.


Oh and that they have the right to punish you until you comply.
 
2020-07-07 4:56:26 PM  
9 votes:

CanisNoir: Enomai: CanisNoir: Enomai: God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.

As exhausting as it is for Lesbians having to defend themselves against accusations of Bigotry because they feel that not liking male sex organs is a large part of their Lesbian Identity.

Yes, it's exhausting but it's a debate that needs to be had.

If it needs to be had, I have questions as to whether an anonymous forum as snarky as this place would be the appropriate venue for it. Lesbians might not be attracted to male parts, but pansexuals probably do not have an issue with them since sex isn't the primary vector for attraction. Why then isn't it sufficient to just say that you aren't into those people? If you aren't bigoted then don't take offense when someone tries to label you as such. You have agency as much as anyone does to choose a partner for yourself. I'm a southerner who doesn't fly confederate flags and thinks racism is one of THE things holding back humanity. The mocking in the public space of the "south will rise" jackasses doesn't land with me and doesn't make me defensive.

Well first, I stated up front that the Trans community was suffering and that needs attention, I also stipulated that Social Constructs were real and that any one persons identity was valid. I do not see any attempts at mockery in that - there tacit recognition of each individuals "Truth" as being valid.

As to why a public forum? Because it's a public debate, and sadly the venues with which to have it in are very limited. I try to keep my points to the broader philosophical debate as I see it and hope I get some intelligent people from the other side to challenge me and I try and ignore the chaff - occasionally piping in, admittedly.

I think I am right but am no way claiming I absolutely am right - this is why I hope for intelligent challenge.

Regarding ...


As a person who identifies as a lesbian, I must say that you seem to be rather black and white in your assessment of what makes a lesbian a lesbian.  Trans women who identify as lesbian, ARE lesbians.  Lesbian is an identity and a sexual orientation.

You are assuming all sorts of things about individuals here.  Some lesbians will not enter into relationships with an individual possessing male genitalia.  Some really don't care about genitalia possessed as long as the person generally fits their type and the sex is compatible.  Personally, I'm not interested in men.  I'm also not attracted to trans men either, because they're men. I don't care what is or isn't in their pants, I'm attracted to women.  I refer to my partners by she/hers.  By your logic, lesbians should be dating trans men and cis women.  But really you miss the main point of these lesbians being deplatformed for their 'preferences.'  A man having a blog or youtube channel or whatever and using that to say that he's just 'not attracted to black women' is racist and should be treated as such.  A lesbian saying she won't date another woman because of her physical attributes on a public platform invites the same kinds of response.

It seems to me that you are essentially boiling relationships down to sex and sexual objectification.  It's also the same simplistic way you seem to treat biological sex.  Biological sex is expressed in so many different ways via different mechanisms.  As others have pointed out, you're completely ignoring intersex individuals.  Nature doesn't just fit neatly into binary boxes.
 
2020-07-07 4:04:22 PM  
9 votes:

Trik: Eclectic: TERF

I see toxic liberals have a new catchphrase to shriek at people who disagree with them.
Along with the old reliable bigot and racist, along with the newish incel.

There are many more but those are the immediate fallbacks and most quickly used.


What are you on about? Eclectic said that there are people echoing TERF talking points. You're the one shrieking.
 
2020-07-07 3:52:47 PM  
9 votes:

trialpha: To most of the populace, a woman is someone who has both female sex and female gender.



Okay, I'll bite.

How do you know? When you meet a woman on the street, how would you ever know if they don't match?

Even if you think you can just tell, how can you be certain they're trans and not simply in drag or a crossdresser?

At what point does it become your business?
 
2020-07-07 3:38:08 PM  
9 votes:
*re-checks thread over lunch*

Damn, some of y'all must have thrown your backa out carrying all that water for TERFs

But *thank you, allies* for being here and fighting the good fight. Much respect and love 💜
 
2020-07-07 12:17:06 PM  
9 votes:
Third thread in three days where all the trans Farkers get to watch as their existence and validity is endlessly debated like some intellectual exercise. Party bonus that there's a sealioning concern troll account that's risen from the vasty deeps to shiat all over the place.

Too f*cking exhausted to really engage at this point. Have fun, kids.
 
2020-07-07 10:25:05 AM  
9 votes:
Sudden spate of brand new NounNumber accounts.  How...expected.
 
2020-07-07 9:21:16 AM  
9 votes:
God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.
 
2020-07-07 8:00:25 AM  
9 votes:
This is very personal to me because a large part of my personality is wrapped up in identifying myself through a fake magic school she made up one night.
 
2020-07-07 7:58:01 AM  
9 votes:

Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?


Her handlers need to dart her.
 
2020-07-07 10:56:25 AM  
8 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith. My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.

So you're not actually interested in people understanding so long as you can sit on the side lines in self assumed smugness shutting down any honest attempt at getting to the deeper issue and trying to come to an understanding

Bravo you are an arsehole and part of the problem.


Nope.

My point is to make it clear to this thread that your opinion is worthless because you have no idea what you are talking about.

I will eventually go into the full details, but not until everyone here knows that you aren't worth listening to on this matter.
 
2020-07-07 10:16:50 AM  
8 votes:

CanisNoir: Okay, so in what quantifiable way has biology deviating from "Male" and "Female" being the two sexes?


You're begging the question.  What you've asked requires there to be only two sexes, and precludes other (demonstrably existing) options.
 
2020-07-07 10:13:08 AM  
8 votes:

Trik: meanmutton: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions. call you out when you say stupid  shiat.

FTFY.

What makes you believe that your opinion is any more valid than hers?


When one is based on foundations of scientific and medical consensus, and the other presses an exclusionary perspective that boils down to "I'm ok with them, I just want them to be out of my space and using other bathrooms", then yeah, there's a difference in validity.

All opinions are not equal.  For example, if someone says "Nazis had a good ideology, they just went about it incorrectly" and another states "diversity and multiculturalism is a more beneficial ideology in the free world", the latter is a more valid opinion, based both on their consequence and the data that supports it.
 
2020-07-07 10:03:52 AM  
8 votes:

bglove25: tira: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

It's not me i'm worried about, it's the LITERAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS who are citing her manifesto in an effort to stop "the gay agenda".

She has a platform, so like it or not she's an influencer and we HAVE to engage with her.

Which socially regressive Congresspersons are citing a children's author on serious social policy? And do you honestly think they'll actually pass legislation that won't get immediately struck down by the courts?


You mean like the recent President Orders that allow healthcare workers to discriminate against transgender people, prohibit Transgender people from the military and his administration telling schools they no longer have to protect transgender students.

They may not list her as their inspiration, but her words are giving cover to Trump and also helping to increase violence against the transgender community since she is dehumanizing them.
 
2020-07-07 9:48:59 AM  
8 votes:

CanisNoir: Do you believe Science is the search for the truth or the search to disprove the truth?


You obviously believe neither, since you hand-wave away empirical reality when it gets in the way of your arguments.
 
2020-07-07 9:22:23 AM  
8 votes:

Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.


Awe, it's not easy being a bigoted racist these days Gramps!
 
2020-07-07 8:47:25 PM  
7 votes:

Trik: Enomai: Trik: Enomai: You're the one shrieking.

umm, no.

Your contribution to this thread has been, to paraphrase: "Libs be like", "you know how libs are", libs, libs, libs. "Libs want to make me tolerant, ain't gonna happen".

So, you know, shrieking.

No indoor speaking level pointing out what liberals do to those with differing opinions.
Things like doxing, stalking, harassing families, harassing employers or sponsors.
Name calling and so on.


Lol. Here's my calm indoor speaking voice pointing out that you used "toxic liberal" as a pejorative so you yourself are name calling in this very thread. I guess we need not dwell on the fact that the original doxxing was in the 90s and was when right wing extremists posted a list of abortion providers complete with markings for wounded and killed doctors who performed a procedure protected by US law. Are you just upset that your adversaries now use the tactic? They hardly have a monopoly on it. Harassing sponsors? I still remember the conservatives picketing the small businesses in New Orleans who advertised on the Stern show. Evidently this is now bad because the other side does it. Harassing families? Like the Westboro Baptist right wingers who harass the families of dead soldiers, you mean like that or is there a different situation? Cause they aren't left wing. Stalking, you mean like when the pizzagate conspiracy people showed up with guns looking for abused kids to a legit business or do you mean like when the Gamergaters forced people to leave their homes under death threats? Those also aren't leftists.

Clear the mote from your own eye, sir.
 
2020-07-07 8:10:53 PM  
7 votes:

garron: Leftists want to destroy people's lives and take away their ability to earn a living or get an education simply because they have different opinions - even if they are fellow leftists like JK Rowling. 

Look in the mirror and you will see the biggest evil plaguing the world right now.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 5:19:59 PM  
7 votes:

FeuDePoubelle: CanisNoir: Enomai: CanisNoir: Enomai: God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.

As exhausting as it is for Lesbians having to defend themselves against accusations of Bigotry because they feel that not liking male sex organs is a large part of their Lesbian Identity.

Yes, it's exhausting but it's a debate that needs to be had.

If it needs to be had, I have questions as to whether an anonymous forum as snarky as this place would be the appropriate venue for it. Lesbians might not be attracted to male parts, but pansexuals probably do not have an issue with them since sex isn't the primary vector for attraction. Why then isn't it sufficient to just say that you aren't into those people? If you aren't bigoted then don't take offense when someone tries to label you as such. You have agency as much as anyone does to choose a partner for yourself. I'm a southerner who doesn't fly confederate flags and thinks racism is one of THE things holding back humanity. The mocking in the public space of the "south will rise" jackasses doesn't land with me and doesn't make me defensive.

Well first, I stated up front that the Trans community was suffering and that needs attention, I also stipulated that Social Constructs were real and that any one persons identity was valid. I do not see any attempts at mockery in that - there tacit recognition of each individuals "Truth" as being valid.

As to why a public forum? Because it's a public debate, and sadly the venues with which to have it in are very limited. I try to keep my points to the broader philosophical debate as I see it and hope I get some intelligent people from the other side to challenge me and I try and ignore the chaff - occasionally piping in, admittedly.

I think I am right but am no way claiming I absolutely am right - this is why I hope for intelligent challenge.

Regarding ...

As a person who identifies as a lesbian, I must say that you seem to be rather black and white in your assessment of what makes a lesbian a lesbian.  Trans women who identify as lesbian, ARE lesbians.  Lesbian is an identity and a sexual orientation.

You are assuming all sorts of things about individuals here.  Some lesbians will not enter into relationships with an individual possessing male genitalia.  Some really don't care about genitalia possessed as long as the person generally fits their type and the sex is compatible.  Personally, I'm not interested in men.  I'm also not attracted to trans men either, because they're men. I don't care what is or isn't in their pants, I'm attracted to women.  I refer to my partners by she/hers.  By your logic, lesbians should be dating trans men and cis women.  But really you miss the main point of these lesbians being deplatformed for their 'preferences.'  A man having a blog or youtube channel or whatever and using that to say that he's just 'not attracted to black women' is racist and should be treated as such.  A lesbian saying she won't date another woman because of her physical attributes on a public platform invites the same kinds of response.

It seems to me that you are essentially boiling relationships down to sex and sexual objectification.  It's also the same simplistic way you seem to treat biological sex.  Biological sex is expressed in so many different ways via different mechanisms.  As others have pointed out, you're completely ignoring intersex individuals.  Nature doesn't just fit neatly into binary boxes.


Well said, but you won't make any progress with him. He's sealioning like he always does.
 
2020-07-07 4:59:17 PM  
7 votes:

Geotpf: hammer85: Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"

Fark this argument and fark everything about considering it "logical".  Farking just respect and love people for who they are, not what you want to dictate them to be and do.

To get a larger percentage of people to accept trans people for who they are, reasonable counters to arguments like this need to be made.  Just screaming "Fark you" is not helpful.


Dude. If these people were reasonable, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 4:07:13 PM  
7 votes:

trialpha: "Not worth discussing", "idiots", etc. You've just lost the support of anybody who may have been mostly on your side but needed to be convinced of the remainder. Now, instead of a possible ally, you have someone going "fark your cause"


If the tone of one person is enough for you to galvanize your opinion that a group of people don't deserve equality or protection then maybe you aren't as open minded as you think.
 
2020-07-07 2:46:04 PM  
7 votes:

Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"


Fark this argument and fark everything about considering it "logical".  Farking just respect and love people for who they are, not what you want to dictate them to be and do.
 
2020-07-07 2:13:24 PM  
7 votes:

truthandjustice: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

I am a liberal.
And I've recently learned - that you are correct.


The world is not flat.
vaccines work.
transwomen are women.

Each of those three statements will throw a group of people into a frenzy of righteous indignation, claiming that they are the real victims of an alleged conspiracy to control them and force them to think a certain way.
All three groups are wrong.

\Does your username refer to the things you hate and want to see erased?
 
2020-07-07 2:09:02 PM  
7 votes:

trialpha: To most of the populace, a woman is someone who has both female sex and female gender.


Truth is not democratic and human rights should never be assigned based on popular vote.
 
2020-07-07 1:01:35 PM  
7 votes:

Karne: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

Awe, it's not easy being a bigoted racist these days Gramps!


One day when you are older, you will realize that the ultra-left and the ultra-right are the exact same people with different ideologies. If you can't see how both of them use outrage and "fighting the good fight" as a means to control thought then you really have zero understanding of how groupthink works. The constant outrage without any nuance or logical reasoning is toxic and dangerous. Just because someone plays on the same team as you, doesn't mean they have the same values as you. Go study how young people in China and Russia, during the blossoming of fascism cloaked as communism, acted like. You will find their level of intolerance is just as horrific as those who are goose stepping to the hard right, evangelical Nazism mindset.  And if you think that history doesn't repeat itself or "today's ultra liberals" won't ever be like they were... then you really have a long way to go before you understand people and history.
 
2020-07-07 11:57:09 AM  
7 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: Anyone who thinks that something as complex as sex and gender can be boiled down to the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is not worth paying attention to - they aren't worth even true debate since they aren't even knowledgeable enough on the issues to keep up in a debate on them.


I wasn't going to address you any more and honestly, I'm too emotionally involved now to continue debating, but there is something you should think about.

You are condescending, unempathetic, smug and unwilling to bring any type of understanding on the subject unless it is loaded with scorn. You are an abysmal spokesperson for the Trans community.

You do nothing to help them but instead insist upon furthering the wedge between them and those they love.

Until you can learn some human decency and at the very least some empathy, in my opinion, you shouldn't speak on the subject unless your goal is to hurt the Trans Community because that is the result of your actions.
 
2020-07-07 11:30:59 AM  
7 votes:

shut_it_down: Armored Vomit Doll: - etc. etc. etc. Textbooks exist simply covering all the ways that sex selection can go sideways.

This is the point a lot of people never seem to understand when arguing about sex and human biology. Biology is squishy and unpredictable. People try to draw these bright lines from genes to sex to gender to gender roles, but anyone who has studied biology to any serious extent should know that these lines aren't crisp. There are plenty of exceptions due to the fact that our biology is incredibly complex and influenced by innumerable factors that we still don't fully understand.


My main work with genetics and reproduction was with poultry which, as birds, have a totally different sex-selection mechanism (no X and Y chromosomes; the base template is male, not female; the ovum generally determines the sex not the sperm).  If you want to see weird, start comparing the XY paradigm with the ZW paradigm and things get beyond bizarre.

And your second point is where I was heading next, and might still, as this thread is going to be open for a long while.  Beyond just SRY, there are many other alleles of genes in a person's genome that might affect both their biological sex and their eventual gender.

And, after that, who we aren't isn't only determined by our genome, but our environment, of course.

Anyone who thinks that something as complex as sex and gender can be boiled down to the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is not worth paying attention to - they aren't worth even true debate since they aren't even knowledgeable enough on the issues to keep up in a debate on them.
 
2020-07-07 11:09:23 AM  
7 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: Nope.My point is to make it clear to this thread that your opinion is worthless because you have no idea what you are talking about.I will eventually go into the full details, but not until everyone here knows that you aren't worth listening to on this matter.

No, you're point is to simply be an arsehole because you can't fathom that people are having their families torn apart and friends devastated by this and they just might want to try and understand the other side so the suffering can stop.

You have proven to be an arsehole and not interested in honest debate with the goal of common understanding. You're wasting my time and I am done with you.


Says the guy who came into this thread spewing easily-disprovable horseshiat about gender and sex.  Here's a hint, if you want an "honest" debate, don't start out by spewing obvious falsehoods.

We never even got to question two before you bailed.  Sad.
 
2020-07-07 11:02:51 AM  
7 votes:

bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.


That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.
 
2020-07-07 10:52:51 AM  
7 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith. My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.


So you're not actually interested in people understanding so long as you can sit on the side lines in self assumed smugness shutting down any honest attempt at getting to the deeper issue and trying to come to an understanding

Bravo you are an arsehole and part of the problem.
 
2020-07-07 10:46:40 AM  
7 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.


I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.
 
2020-07-07 9:34:57 AM  
7 votes:
How dare she say publicly something that 99% of the world agrees with!
 
2020-07-07 9:32:09 AM  
7 votes:

CanisNoir: In my opinion Gender as a social construct described the "Truth" that is biological sex.


What truth is that?
 
2020-07-07 9:30:39 AM  
7 votes:

Karne: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

Awe, it's not easy being a bigoted racist these days Gramps!


Her opinions are not necessarily my opinions but I believe she has a right to them without someone shrieking racist bigot at her.
Don't like her, ignore her.

Only time I think about her is when someone here is calling her names because they believe they have a right to control her.
 
2020-07-07 8:47:26 AM  
7 votes:

Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.


And you didn't even mention how the goblin bankers are crook nosed, showing her anti-Semitic feelings.
 
2020-07-07 8:36:14 AM  
7 votes:

baka-san: Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?

Shut up and write?


Trouble is she's writing on twitter.
 
2020-07-07 8:36:12 AM  
7 votes:
Uh, never? We've been over how sexist and racist and, generally, posh the HP novels are a million times at this point.

Hell even John Oliver took a swing at her for the Scottish referendum.
 
2020-07-07 7:59:02 AM  
7 votes:

Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?


No, she should keep right on talking. She's her own worst enemy.
 
2020-07-07 7:55:51 AM  
7 votes:

Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?


Shut up and write?
 
2020-07-08 7:52:43 AM  
6 votes:

truthandjustice: thatguyoverthere70: truthandjustice: You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks.

If you truly believe this, then stop acting like you're the victim.

Say what now.
Not THAT is projection.
???
Please point to my victim act. When did it happen? What time.. which post ... where ??


1. The thread from a couple of days ago where you said you were there because you were morbidly fascinated to see other liberals attacking you.

2. Your initial writings in this thread, where you just had to point out that you agree with that farker and you also think your fellow liberals are so mean and that they try to dictate what others think and say.

3. The post I responded to and quoted directly above where you say "You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks" Because for you this is all about the feelings you get when YOU get when YOU feel attacked and when YOU think it's all about someone trying to control the way YOU think. For you, this isn't about trans people and their rights, it's about your right to say you agree with JK Rowling.

If you want to agree with Rowling, go for it. No one here has stopped you.
 
2020-07-07 7:25:01 PM  
6 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: Khellendros: CanisNoir: So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structurehttps://www.livescience.com/2​7248-chromosomes.htmlHow sex is determinedHumans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.

This is a very good middle school explanation.  But it's a statistical argument focusing on a general case.

Among a sizable portion of the population, there is a significant disconnect between the bits between their legs, the chromosomes they carry, and the juices flowing in their bodies.  There are many people with a penis who have XX chromosomes, or XY with a vagina.  There are some that have both.  There are some with XXY (Klinfelters and non-Klinefelters), XYY, XXXY, XXYY, XO, and other combinations as well.

Many have completely disparate sexual or genital development from their general physic ...

BTW, you didn't mention it directly here, so I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but look into chimerism if you haven't run across it..  That is always good to bring up in discussions on this topic.

/Have deliberately made chimeric chickens in the past.  Too much work to be viable in agriculture, unfortunately.


Chimerism is fascinating. Best guess for my individual intersex variation is that I absorbed my fraternal twin in utero.

Which is why when someone kevtches about "but your chromosomes!", I get to ask them "well, which set of my chromosomes are you referring to?". Because depending on which tissue you sample, there are two potential results.

I bring it up sometimes in these threads, but tend to not jump right to it, because I've seen too many "oh, you're ok then but other trans women blah blah blah". It shouldn't matter why I'm trans, and I had to transition the same as every other trans person does. Same legal hurdles. Even *more* medical hurdles than many, as the "fix" my folks had done when I was small so they could raise me male made some things more difficult.

But hot damn does it make me shake my head at all the "experts" in here with their hot takes on sex, gender, and reproductive biology.
 
2020-07-07 7:06:18 PM  
6 votes:

garron: Leftists want to destroy people's lives and take away their ability to earn a living or get an education simply because they have different opinions - even if they are fellow leftists like JK Rowling. 

Look in the mirror and you will see the biggest evil plaguing the world right now.


How do you know this? You found an issue of Leftist Monthly lying around? Did someone leave a bulleted list at your local gas station? Not a single person in this thread has stated that Rowling or her progeny should starve to death or said that she doesn't deserve to get an education. So ship that shiat because you're talking out of your ass.

BTW, is this "get an education" bit springing from the dumbasses who have had social media vids show up where they're dropping n bombs leading their acceptances to various universities to be dropped? Those people are the true victims?
 
2020-07-07 5:06:19 PM  
6 votes:

Trik: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

Oh and that they have the right to punish you until you comply.


"Get that son of a biatch off the field right now"

-famous liberal
 
2020-07-07 4:35:09 PM  
6 votes:

trialpha: Khellendros: See, this is where you completely trip over your own argument. The public doesn't have to change shiat. Stop bugging people about what goddamn bathroom they use. I don't have to change a damn thing about my bathroom habits, regardless of whether a transperson decides to use the bathroom I'm in or not. Leave. Them. The. Fark. Alone. About. It.

I don't either. But women do. Because they've spent their entire lives with "someone who looks like a man walking into their washroom = problem"

Khellendros: Utterly irrelevant, and people like you seem to have a pathological need to make definitions based on biological distinctions you clearly don't understand to exclude people. We don't need to have the lunch counter argument again. We don't need "separate but equal" bathrooms based on gender, sex, genitalia, testosterone levels, Y chromosome tests, or anything else.

At this point, you're effectively advocating for unisex bathrooms. I don't have a problem with that (as long as urinals are still present), but again, women do.

Khellendros: I didn't scream. I said if people's arguments are based on stupid idea, they're not worth discussing. Telling someone who's convinced that blacks shouldn't have the same rights until we define if they need to wear reflectors at night while jogging isn't a worthwhile discussion. And they're idiots if they're making those arguments. Same with sporting classifications or whether bathrooms should be based on sex, gender, or some other arbitrary concept. I don't give a fark if JK Rowling is uncomfortable with someone in the stall next to her. If they're in there pissing, leave them alone about it.

"Not worth discussing", "idiots", etc. You've just lost the support of anybody who may have been mostly on your side but needed to be convinced of the remainder. Now, instead of a possible ally, you have someone going "fark your cause"


Why is it always women?  Why do we assume women are so farking precious and helpless that they can't even pee in a farking private stall without worried that there might be another woman in the stall next to them who might be using a penis to pee at the same time.

What about men having to go against transgender men in sports?  What about transmen in men's bathrooms?  I'm willing to bet more transmen are assaulted in bathrooms than transwomen or people pretending to be them assaulting women in them.

A person whipping their dick out in a ladies locker room, trans or not, is still harassment.  There's nothing a bathroom bill/sports bill is designed to do is parrot bullshiat think of the virgin white women who are sacred above all else but don't somehow also deserve their own body autonomy and fark trans people because I think they don't deserve rights.

I almost feel bad for transmen.  It's like they don't even matter enough to be discriminated against publicly.
 
2020-07-07 4:29:24 PM  
6 votes:

Trik: Enomai: You're the one shrieking.

umm, no.


Your contribution to this thread has been, to paraphrase: "Libs be like", "you know how libs are", libs, libs, libs. "Libs want to make me tolerant, ain't gonna happen".

So, you know, shrieking.
 
2020-07-07 4:03:38 PM  
6 votes:

trialpha: I don't either. But women do. Because they've spent their entire lives with "someone who looks like a man walking into their washroom = problem"


So your argument boils down to enforcing the idea that's it's ok to assume transwomen are sexual predators?  Is it ok to assume a gay school teacher is a rapist?  A black guy walking down the street is a mugger?  The problem isn't the transperson, it's the bigot who thinks they're a threat.

trialpha: "Not worth discussing", "idiots", etc. You've just lost the support of anybody who may have been mostly on your side but needed to be convinced of the remainder. Now, instead of a possible ally, you have someone going "fark your cause"


For the same reason I'm not going to listen/debate/indulge a Nazi on race discussions, I'm not going to indulge transphobes and TERFS on gender issues.  It's not worth the time, and it slows progress.  Everything has to stop while you argue for the basic human rights of someone.  We don't need to "have the discussion" on whether black people can use the same water fountain anymore.  Someone who is "mostly on my side" but calls the police on a black guy in a park isn't a possible ally.  They're a racist.
 
2020-07-07 1:35:27 PM  
6 votes:

CanisNoir: I wasn't going to address you any more and honestly, I'm too emotionally involved now to continue debating, but there is something you should think about.

You are condescending, unempathetic, smug and unwilling to bring any type of understanding on the subject unless it is loaded with scorn. You are an abysmal spokesperson for the Trans community.

You do nothing to help them but instead insist upon furthering the wedge between them and those they love.

Until you can learn some human decency and at the very least some empathy, in my opinion, you shouldn't speak on the subject unless your goal is to hurt the Trans Community because that is the result of your actions.


wondermark.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 11:55:07 AM  
6 votes:

Enomai: CanisNoir: I stated that "Gender is a social construct and is separate from Biological Sex" has no basis in scientific fact.

I do not have time at the moment to dig in to the underlying research at the moment but that is pretty much the verbatim position on that topic of the APA today as we are having this discussion. I am curious if you think that they arrived at that based on feeling or research or if you have a holding that invalidates PhD's of Psychology.


CanisNoir couldn't even pass a first-year undergraduate exam on human biology/genetics, and you expect him to have anything even remotely knowledgeable to say on this topic?

Good luck!
 
2020-07-07 11:50:04 AM  
6 votes:

karl2025: Jake Havechek: Why doesn't she just shut the hell up?

Because she's a TERF. Her particular anti-transgender mindset is rooted in feminism, she (incorrectly) believes trans women should be excluded in order to protect women both physically and socially, that including trans women as women undermines "real" women. So when you tell her to stop talking, she's not hearing that as legitimate criticism of her bigotry, she's hearing that as you being anti-feminist. So she keeps talking because she is trying to be a good person and defend women, she's just doing it in an incredibly hurtful and disrespectful way.


Thank you.

Finally, a logical explanation on why she just can't put the shovel down on this subject.
 
2020-07-07 11:05:24 AM  
6 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: Nope.My point is to make it clear to this thread that your opinion is worthless because you have no idea what you are talking about.I will eventually go into the full details, but not until everyone here knows that you aren't worth listening to on this matter.


No, you're point is to simply be an arsehole because you can't fathom that people are having their families torn apart and friends devastated by this and they just might want to try and understand the other side so the suffering can stop.

You have proven to be an arsehole and not interested in honest debate with the goal of common understanding. You're wasting my time and I am done with you.
 
2020-07-07 10:45:12 AM  
6 votes:

CanisNoir: It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.


Many XX individuals in this world were born as full biological males.  And many XY individuals in this world were born as full biological females.

So it can't be as simple as just the chromosome, now can it?
 
2020-07-07 10:40:54 AM  
6 votes:
CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.


False.  Try again.
 
2020-07-07 10:34:24 AM  
6 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: They were books written for children. Children do not analyze story books on this level, because they're children.


No, it's far more dangerous.  They don't come to conclusions based on analysis, they carry the constructed tropes and apply them to their lives without analysis.  It becomes "normal" to do so.  The YouTube project "Lessons Animation Taught Me" goes into great detail on how movies and media from your early life shape your mind in exceptionally broad ways.  The repeated messages we take away from books, movies, television shows, etc. when we're children is staggeringly powerful.
 
2020-07-07 9:42:17 AM  
6 votes:

kenshin5435: This is the kind of response that make Liberals look bad. It causes people to instantly disregard anything else you have to say, and it makes words like "bigot" lose all meaning.


Actually it's the type of response that is making "Classical Liberals" leave the movement, it's make the Progressive Left look bad. The fractures have been happening for a while now.
 
2020-07-07 9:37:07 AM  
6 votes:

Karne: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

Awe, it's not easy being a bigoted racist these days Gramps!


This is the kind of response that make Liberals look bad. It causes people to instantly disregard anything else you have to say, and it makes words like "bigot" lose all meaning.
 
2020-07-07 8:57:58 AM  
6 votes:

Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.


Hey now, House Elves were happy in their slavery and most were well treated by owners like Dumbledore.
No one would ever make such an argument about real-world slavery.
\s
\\this is the 3rd day in a row we've had this thread, and I really, really won't blame any of Farks trans members if they choose not to participate.
\\\the last 2 threads were full of transphobic assholes
 
2020-07-08 2:37:51 PM  
5 votes:

truthandjustice: thatguyoverthere70: truthandjustice: thatguyoverthere70: truthandjustice: You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks.

If you truly believe this, then stop acting like you're the victim.

Say what now.
Not THAT is projection.
???
Please point to my victim act. When did it happen? What time.. which post ... where ??

1. The thread from a couple of days ago where you said you were there because you were morbidly fascinated to see other liberals attacking you.

2. Your initial writings in this thread, where you just had to point out that you agree with that farker and you also think your fellow liberals are so mean and that they try to dictate what others think and say.

3. The post I responded to and quoted directly above where you say "You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks" Because for you this is all about the feelings you get when YOU get when YOU feel attacked and when YOU think it's all about someone trying to control the way YOU think. For you, this isn't about trans people and their rights, it's about your right to say you agree with JK Rowling.

If you want to agree with Rowling, go for it. No one here has stopped you.

oh wow I have a stalker.

First, DO NOT LIE.
It's ugly. And God don't like ugly.

I never said anything about anyone being "mean".
I think it's sad - for liberals - that they feel like they can control other's thoughts.
It is a sad realization in life when you learn the truth that - the only one you can control is yourself.
And it's frustrating when you want to control the way others see you and perceive you, when you literally cannot. Again, all you can control is your own reactions.
But then as you mature you realize that it's not so frustrating - it can be empowering to learn this. Because YOU get to decide how you will react, and who you will put on mute.
There ...


Believe whatever you want, but upthread you called yourself a liberal and in this comment you used the third person to refer to liberals which is the point of view people use to refer to a group to which they do not belong. So which is it?

Also, please stop conflating leftism and liberalism. All Americans are liberals by definition under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
 
2020-07-07 8:41:48 PM  
5 votes:

Birnone: Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"

I'm glad you brought this up. I'm liberal and consider myself open minded and not bound by tradition or some desperate need to cling to old ways. But I have to admit that when I hear a parent of a daughter who was born female ask why she should have to compete against females who were born male, I'm at a loss when trying to think of what the answer to that would be.

My position, as best as I've been able to work out, is that the question of who can compete against whom is strictly a matter of keeping things competitive. This means if someone is not allowed to compete against girls who were born girls, this rule is not denying the would be competitor is a girl. The rule is setting parameters for competitive purposes. You can't look to organized sports for validation of who you are, that's not their purpose or responsibility. Neither can they deny who you are. All they can do is say if you meet the requirements or not.

If we say the boys' little league won't allow adults to play, we are not passing judgement on the sexual identity of those adults. We aren't allowing it because it would tilt things against the boys who are not adults. So what am I missing here? Is there something going on with being trans that negates any potential physical advantage? Are we ...


WHO... FARKING...CARES

Why?  Why the fark does this keep getting brought up?  Guess what, that daughter is practically guaranteed to suck at sports.  Because 99.99999999999999999% of kids in school sports do.  Who farking cares that there's a transwoman that might be faster than their little precious, whose running a 13 minute two mile, when the state record is 10.

I raced against women and played soccer with and against them my entire school life.  Some of them beat me.  Did I farking cry about it?  No.  Did they cry they had to run a two mile against boys?  No.  Because no one wants to watch eight separate runs instead of four of people going around in circles for two miles.  Some of the relays were mixed gender teams because they just didn't have enough to do all four.  No one farking cares except busybodies who want to "care" to discriminate against LGBT folks.

Why did you use transwoman as your example instead of transmen?  Do you just assume a transman can't beat a non-transman?  I mean, think of the awful humiliation someone might feel when someone AFAB beats little Timmy at football?  That's just unacceptable.  Hysteria, dogs marrying cats!  God forbid someone be better at something than little Timmy!  Why don't we just burn all of society so that Timmy can get his farking trophy?

WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE NON-TRANS BOYS?

And why still won't anyone think of the transmen?
 
2020-07-07 5:41:25 PM  
5 votes:

truthandjustice: You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks.


If you truly believe this, then stop acting like you're the victim.
 
2020-07-07 5:23:50 PM  
5 votes:

bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.


It is often used to justify violence. You don't get credit for not threatening violence when you find yourself in wholehearted agreement with those who do. Especially when they turn around and use your words to justify their violence.
 
2020-07-07 4:48:01 PM  
5 votes:

bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.


Ever heard the phrase "The pen is mightier than the sword"?

One of the things that people do to make it easier to harm others is to dehumanize them.  That IS speech.  The aggregate weight of constant dehumanization, the constant slander and libel of who these people are, the steady stream of disrespect and hate; these things encourage others to join in the hate and eventually commit physical and emotional harm.  When this becomes systemic, then you really start getting into the subtle persistent evil that can be committed against people.

So you are correct, she did not incite violence and words themselves cannot harm others in the literal sense, but she did encourage others to join in the hate and eventually, there is and will be violence committed.
 
2020-07-07 4:21:39 PM  
5 votes:

Geotpf: hammer85: Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"

Fark this argument and fark everything about considering it "logical".  Farking just respect and love people for who they are, not what you want to dictate them to be and do.

To get a larger percentage of people to accept trans people for who they are, reasonable counters to arguments like this need to be made.  Just screaming "Fark you" is not helpful.


I mean, it is.  Civil Rights entire history are people saying fark you when told to go back to their place and accept it.  There is no reasonable counter to slavery, or forcing people into being who they aren't so that assholes can feel better about themselves.
 
2020-07-07 4:12:16 PM  
5 votes:

trialpha: SirMadness: So in other words, women in the bathroom are threatened if they perceive other women in the bathroom to be sufficiently ugly enough that their imagination paints a picture of brutal assault. Is that right? How did you come to this conclusion?

Yes. Don't look at me - this is what I've been hearing from women.


Okay. Do you feel threatened when bigger, stronger men utilize a public washroom at the same time as you?

Regardless of that answer. How many times have you actually been assaulted in a public washroom?

Even if that answer is greater than zero, how often does the perception of a threat align with an actual danger?
 
2020-07-07 4:09:45 PM  
5 votes:

trialpha: Yes. Don't look at me - this is what I've been hearing from women.


Yeah, and I hear white people talking about "black people" and I hear straight people talking about those "gay people".  What's your point?
 
2020-07-07 3:58:14 PM  
5 votes:

SirMadness: Okay, I'll bite.

How do you know? When you meet a woman on the street, how would you ever know if they don't match?

Even if you think you can just tell, how can you be certain they're trans and not simply in drag or a crossdresser?

At what point does it become your business?


Conservatives have this idea in their head that all mtf trans people look like

78.media.tumblr.comView Full Size


The same people who will spend all day screeching about "smaller government" want to make sure that people only have sex between a man, and a woman (probably in the dark in a missionary position through a blanket with a hole in it)
 
2020-07-07 3:55:10 PM  
5 votes:

Eclectic: *re-checks thread over lunch*

Damn, some of y'all must have thrown your backa out carrying all that water for TERFs

But *thank you, allies* for being here and fighting the good fight. Much respect and love 💜


I'm sorry you and other LBTQG2S+ have to go through this every time there's a Fark thread about these kind of issues and the whargblblbl crowd shows up to tell us all that you're not real people.
 
2020-07-07 3:23:55 PM  
5 votes:

Boo_Guy: Your posts taking the sea lion out behind the woodshed so thoroughly that it freaked out on you abandoned the thread was an incredibly satisfying read, cheers!


I've been slowly learning how to chase sea lions out of threads.  Sometimes it works well, like it did here.  Sometimes it basically just ends up as duelling sea lions.

At any rate, I aim to entertain irritate.
 
2020-07-07 1:26:53 PM  
5 votes:

bglove25: Which socially regressive Congresspersons are citing a children's author on serious social policy? And do you honestly think they'll actually pass legislation that won't get immediately struck down by the courts?


This one, when blocking legislation
 
2020-07-07 12:19:40 PM  
5 votes:
CanisNoir:Well, she has some valid points worth exploring don't you think?

No, she has no valid points.

CanisNoir: In a time where biological females

Newsflash for you : All "females" are biological, just like all "males" are biological.  In order to not be "biological", they'd need to be inorganic.  (Perhaps you think some hu-mons are made from rocks or something?)

CanisNoir: should Gender be separated from Biological sex.

Again, all sex is biological.

Perhaps instead of trotting out stuff you learned in middle school, you could do some actual learning on the topic?      Here's a good place to start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?​v=uDeNDX​4geXo (A video from a University biology professor.)
 
2020-07-07 12:18:02 PM  
5 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.

I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.


You didn't demonstrate anything. All you said was "false, try again"
 
2020-07-07 12:13:25 PM  
5 votes:
It's like every day there's a new rotations of stupid assholes that come into these threads to "well actually" stupid nonsense.
 
2020-07-07 12:02:05 PM  
5 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: Anyone who thinks that something as complex as sex and gender can be boiled down to the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is not worth paying attention to - they aren't worth even true debate since they aren't even knowledgeable enough on the issues to keep up in a debate on them.

I wasn't going to address you any more and honestly, I'm too emotionally involved now to continue debating, but there is something you should think about.

You are condescending, unempathetic, smug and unwilling to bring any type of understanding on the subject unless it is loaded with scorn. You are an abysmal spokesperson for the Trans community.

You do nothing to help them but instead insist upon furthering the wedge between them and those they love.

Until you can learn some human decency and at the very least some empathy, in my opinion, you shouldn't speak on the subject unless your goal is to hurt the Trans Community because that is the result of your actions.


Lol.  Complete horseshiat.

My comments have only been directed at you and your total ignorance of basic biology and genetics.  The topic could be anything related to sexual reproduction/gender identity/etc. and I would have responded to you the same way.

Sorry that having your complete lack of knowledge thrown back in your face triggers you so much, snowflake.  But that is only about you, and not transgender issues.
 
2020-07-07 11:51:44 AM  
5 votes:

CanisNoir: I stated that "Gender is a social construct and is separate from Biological Sex" has no basis in scientific fact.


I do not have time at the moment to dig in to the underlying research at the moment but that is pretty much the verbatim position on that topic of the APA today as we are having this discussion. I am curious if you think that they arrived at that based on feeling or research or if you have a holding that invalidates PhD's of Psychology.
 
2020-07-07 10:42:43 AM  
5 votes:

CanisNoir: If Race as a social construct is not an descriptor of any objective thing, then what purpose would you say the social construct has and how do we refer to the distinct genotypes in general society?


We don't refer to the distinct genotypes in society.  That's the point.  The concept of race is based on human perception, but not on the reality of the situation.
 
2020-07-07 10:11:11 AM  
5 votes:

CanisNoir: Okay, so in what quantifiable way has biology deviating from "Male" and "Female" being the two sexes? To be honest you may have to clarify your point here though, I might be misunderstanding your statement.


The point is there is far more at play than just "male" and "female" here.  We are talking about the entire genome of a person, plus all their interactions with the environment both in the womb and after birth.

However, I don't think you are informed enough on these issues to understand this.  So, I may need to start out with the basics.

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.
 
2020-07-07 10:09:43 AM  
5 votes:

Trik: meanmutton: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions. call you out when you say stupid  shiat.

FTFY.

What makes you believe that your opinion is any more valid than hers?


Because she is discounting a whole swath of people, because of her bigotry. Bigots basically have to be taken to task when they tear their ugly heads.
 
2020-07-07 9:27:11 AM  
5 votes:

havocmike: Famous authors were always puds, but social media wasn't there for Mark Twain to let us know his feelings on whatever the hot topics of 1888 were.


Mark Twain was a pretty poor choice for that as he let a lot of people know his feelings on issues.

Tolkien is one that I admire but feel could get cornered by a Twitter mob (if he would deign to use such contraptions). At least he struggled with whether Orcs have souls and could be redeemable. Enough blabbing though would probably make Middle Earth a very "problematic" place.
 
2020-07-07 8:35:02 AM  
5 votes:

karl2025: Because she's a TERF. Her particular anti-transgender mindset is rooted in feminism, she (incorrectly) believes trans women should be excluded in order to protect women both physically and socially, that including trans women as women undermines "real" women. So when you tell her to stop talking, she's not hearing that as legitimate criticism of her bigotry, she's hearing that as you being anti-feminist. So she keeps talking because she is trying to be a good person and defend women, she's just doing it in an incredibly hurtful and disrespectful way.


Well, she has some valid points worth exploring don't you think? In a time where biological females are getting beaten fairly brutally in MMA fights, Lesbians are being demonetized and de-platformed for simply stating that as a Lesbian they are absolutely not sexually attracted to male dangly parts.

So, stipulating implicitly that the Trans community is suffering and we need to alleviate that suffering in the best way we know how. Also stipulating that social constructs exist and that one persons "Truth" is just as valid as another's, so this is not about debating the validity of any one persons "Identity"

What this comes down to, is should Gender be separated from Biological sex. My contention and that of JK Rowling is no. The reason behind this being I believe that social constructs exist to "describe" reality, and not "define" it.

In my opinion Gender as a social construct described the "Truth" that is biological sex. So while we agree that Gender is a social construct we disagree on it's purpose.

This is more of a philosophical question as it regards to which "Truth" we wish to apply to the country at large with regards to legislation? The Subjective Truth or The Objective Truth. I fall on the Objective side.

D you believe Reality is a hierarchy of Social Constructs with a power dynamic relationship or do you believe there is such a thing as Objective Reality and Social Constructs are used to describe that reality?
 
2020-07-07 8:30:31 AM  
5 votes:

Mr_Vimes: When was she ever Hermione?


She's claimed a few times that Hermoine is more or less her surrogate, and that Ron was wish-fulfillment of some childhood crush, which she eventually admitted may not have been a proper fit for the character by the end of the series. The fact that she unknowingly wrote her to be an infinitely better person than the real thing is funny, but also farked up
 
2020-07-08 4:07:34 PM  
4 votes:

truthandjustice: Khellendros: truthandjustice: And I honestly don't know much about Rowling. I've never even read her books or seen the movies based on them. I don't think she's evil though. Most people aren't.
truthandjustice: I don't even know what "leftist" is. I wonder every time I see it, but can't be bothered to google it for some reason.

You certainly have a lot of firm opinions and speak a lot on topics you admit to having little knowledge of.

Liar.*
I haven't spoken about leftists. I don't even use that word.

*Just a statement of fact.


If you're talking about politics and political definitions, and don't know what leftism is, you don't understand politics.  It's like talking about transportation, but not knowing what railroads or ships are.  Kind of an important component.

Joe: "Well, Ted, I'm the foremost expert on PCs you'll find in the state!"

Ted: "Really?  Wow, great!  What's the best hard drive on the commercial market?"

Joe: "Huh?  What's a 'hard drive'?  Is that some sort of motorcycle?"
 
2020-07-08 9:56:34 AM  
4 votes:

thatguyoverthere70: The post I responded to and quoted directly above where you say "You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks" Because for you this is all about the feelings you get when YOU get when YOU feel attacked and when YOU think it's all about someone trying to control the way YOU think. For you, this isn't about trans people and their rights, it's about your right to say you agree with JK Rowling.If you want to agree with Rowling, go for it. No one here has stopped you.


Ding Ding.  We have a winner.

When someone wants to feel safe in a position they don't want to scoot from, they often conflate being "challenged" with being "attacked".  It stops being about the issue, and starts being about how it makes them feel, civil discourse, and decorum.
 
2020-07-08 8:16:03 AM  
4 votes:

thatguyoverthere70: These threads stress me out.


They suck the life out of me. The same tired-ass "I'm not anti-trans, but..." arguments in every single thread for the 17 years I've been on Fark. The individual posters are slightly different from thread to thread, but it's the same script.

I've tried hard to educate. To be visible, at least. To push back against the worst of it. But it gets so old. And when we reach a saturation point like we have this week with four Rowling/trans threads in 72 hours, most of us in the Fark trans community have to walk away for our mental health. Which unfortunately means that sometimes the threads get even worse.

I am so grateful for the allies that fight for us when we're not here, because we just get ground to paste and need breaks.
 
2020-07-07 8:22:10 PM  
4 votes:

Eclectic: Armored Vomit Doll: Khellendros: CanisNoir: So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structurehttps://www.livescience.com/2​7248-chromosomes.htmlHow sex is determinedHumans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.

This is a very good middle school explanation.  But it's a statistical argument focusing on a general case.

Among a sizable portion of the population, there is a significant disconnect between the bits between their legs, the chromosomes they carry, and the juices flowing in their bodies.  There are many people with a penis who have XX chromosomes, or XY with a vagina.  There are some that have both.  There are some with XXY (Klinfelters and non-Klinefelters), XYY, XXXY, XXYY, XO, and other combinations as well.

Many have completely disparate sexual or genital development from their general physic ...

BTW, you didn't mention it directly here, so I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but look into chimerism if you haven't run across it..  That is always good to bring up in discussions on this topic.

/Have deliberately made chimeric chickens in the past.  Too much work to be viable in agriculture, unfortunately.

Chimerism is fascinating. Best guess for my individual intersex variation is that I absorbed my fraternal twin in utero.

Which is why when someone kevtches about "but your chromosomes!", I get to ask them "well, which set of my chromosomes are you referring to?". Because depending on which tissue you sample, there are two potential results.

I bring it up sometimes in these threads, but tend to not jump right to it, because I've seen too many "oh, you're ok then but other trans women blah blah blah". It shouldn't matter why I'm trans, and I had to transition the same as every other trans person does. Same legal hurdles. Even *more* medical hurdles than many, as the "fix" my folks had done when I was small so they could raise me male made some things more difficult.

But hot damn does it make me shake my head at all the "experts" in here with their hot takes on sex, gender, and reproductive biology.


Gods, there are way too many legal and medical hurdles to jump over.  All it takes is one person somewhere to conveniently lose something to delay things for months, or a doctor simply refusing to provide treatment (life saving or otherwise).  This process has been maddening for me without having to worry about some overzealous woman claiming she needs to know what is between my legs.  That anxiety sucks no matter how femme I look.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 3:47:22 PM  
4 votes:

Eclectic: *re-checks thread over lunch*

Damn, some of y'all must have thrown your backa out carrying all that water for TERFs

But *thank you, allies* for being here and fighting the good fight. Much respect and love 💜


I do want to say that I'm sorry that you have to experience the "third thread in three days where all the trans Farkers get to watch as their existence and validity is endlessly debated like some intellectual exercise"

For those of us who work with the law, though, it is an intellectual exercise.  The law works based on long annoying arguments around piddling details.  I have no doubt that it feels dehumanizing - I'm gay, but too young to remember (or even be alive for) most of those battles.  But, in the end, it is how things work in Western society.  I don't know how to change that.  Just how to work with it to try to produce the best possible outcome for all humans, regardless of who they are.
 
2020-07-07 3:25:57 PM  
4 votes:

Geotpf: hammer85: Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"

Fark this argument and fark everything about considering it "logical".  Farking just respect and love people for who they are, not what you want to dictate them to be and do.

To get a larger percentage of people to accept trans people for who they are, reasonable counters to arguments like this need to be made.  Just screaming "Fark you" is not helpful.


fark you.  No screaming.  Just fark you.
 
2020-07-07 3:25:17 PM  
4 votes:

trialpha: Geotpf: So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

Since trans advocates are arguing "transwomen are women", yes.

And they wonder why people have a problem with that.


Far be it for me to underestimate the profound cultural relevance of the collegiate track and field community, but just out of idle curiosity, exactly how big of a problem do you envision this being?  I'm curious, the last cross country meet I got suckered into attending had like...six parents and three siblings in attendance, where exactly are all of these desperately concerned sports fans hiding out EVERY other single moment of the year except when this one particular argument comes up?  I mean...it's ALMOST like it's a bullshiat non-issue people are latching onto in order to advance an agenda they know is otherwise unpopular and morally bankrupt.
 
2020-07-07 1:37:20 PM  
4 votes:

hammer85: It's like every day there's a new rotations of stupid assholes that come into these threads to "well actually" stupid nonsense.


I will never forget Mr 'well AKCHULLY the dictionary definition of bigotry (which I demand we discuss) is...' - He will always have a place in my heart.
 
2020-07-07 12:39:36 PM  
4 votes:

Cormee: Armored Vomit Doll: Cormee: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.

I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.

You didn't demonstrate anything. All you said was "false, try again"

Keep reading the thread .......

I did, but in your Weeners, the one I commented on, you came across as dismissive and arrogant, claiming to have done something you hadn't actually done.


Yeah, there's a purpose for that.  Sea-lion repellent, as it were.
 
2020-07-07 12:13:48 PM  
4 votes:

CanisNoir: You are condescending, unempathetic, smug and unwilling to bring any type of understanding on the subject unless it is loaded with scorn. You are an abysmal spokesperson for the Trans community.


What makes you think I'm acting as a spokesman for the trans community, or any community.  I've been very clear about my purpose in posting in this thread: to make sure everyone knows that you have no idea what you are talking about, and that your opinion is, thus, completely worthless.

Other people in this thread can fight the bigger war.  Making sure everyone knows that they shouldn't listen to a word you say, since you have no idea what you are talking about, is the only battle I'm fighting here.
 
2020-07-07 12:06:01 PM  
4 votes:

CanisNoir: Until you can learn some human decency and at the very least some empathy, in my opinion, you shouldn't speak on the subject unless your goal is to hurt the Trans Community because that is the result of your actions.


And, until you learn basic biology, genetics and psychology, you shouldn't speak on this issue.  Maybe I'm a bit acerbic, but at least I know what I'm talking about.

Remember, we can all scroll up and see how you entered this thread.  And conclude for ourselves whether you were ever interested in "honest" debate.
 
2020-07-07 11:35:17 AM  
4 votes:

Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.


I am a liberal.
And I've recently learned - that you are correct.
 
2020-07-07 11:12:35 AM  
4 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: - etc. etc. etc. Textbooks exist simply covering all the ways that sex selection can go sideways.


This is the point a lot of people never seem to understand when arguing about sex and human biology. Biology is squishy and unpredictable. People try to draw these bright lines from genes to sex to gender to gender roles, but anyone who has studied biology to any serious extent should know that these lines aren't crisp. There are plenty of exceptions due to the fact that our biology is incredibly complex and influenced by innumerable factors that we still don't fully understand.
 
2020-07-07 10:53:42 AM  
4 votes:

Trik: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

Oh and that they have the right to punish you until you comply.


Yeah...right....thank god that the ones silencing gays , science, education, the disenfranchised, dissent, and engaging in real suppression are all republicans. Now go away troll.
 
2020-07-07 10:48:51 AM  
4 votes:

Trik: Fano: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

Don't forget the humorous use of date rape drugs and memory modification

Didn't read the books but don't recall dater rape in the movies.
With the memory modification iirc it was kill them or make them forget type thing.


Well, Voldemort's father was drugged by his mother for several months to keep him unable to avoid impregnating her. When the potion wore off he ran away immediately. This is seen as a flaw IN HIM.
Ron ends up getting hit with a spiked sweet that makes him madly in love with some random girl. This is played for laughs. It comes up multiple times in the books about making love charms.
No one seems particularly horrified and this isn't just a 90s thing, in Fantastic Breasts and where to find them a muggle is basically charmed for years on end to stay in love with a character.
 
2020-07-07 10:44:03 AM  
4 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.


Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.
 
2020-07-07 10:05:50 AM  
4 votes:

CanisNoir: So I will ask again - do you believe that Reality is just a hierarchy of social constructs existing within a power dynamic or do you believe that there is an Objective Reality?.


These are not mutually exclusive. For example:

The Pauli exclusion principle is objective reality - it exists whether we want to believe in it or not.

Race (as in a biological concept) is a social construct.  It has no value in science for a variety of reasons (one being that multiple distinct genotypes can map to the same phenotype when it comes to race), and is not useful as an objective description of anything.
 
2020-07-07 9:59:36 AM  
4 votes:

bglove25: punkwrestler: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

The trouble is she has so many followers on her twitter, that if her bigoted beliefs aren't countered, then that will make life worse for the transgender community.

Will it though? Are her followers (many of whom seem real pissed off) so idiotic that they'll automatically agree with everything she says? And vote that way? Assuming they vote?   Just breath deep and ignore her.


Yes some are, unfortunately. In the UK it's getting really bad for transgender people because these pseudoscience crackpots are given the same weight of real scientist it their pitiful "newspapers".

We have already been through the let it pass once with Anita Bryant and she cost us many years of progress on gay rights. JK Rowling is set to do the same on transgender rights and she uses her money to push her agenda.
 
2020-07-07 9:43:08 AM  
4 votes:

meanmutton: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions. call you out when you say stupid  shiat.

FTFY.


What makes you believe that your opinion is any more valid than hers?
 
2020-07-07 9:26:44 AM  
4 votes:

Enomai: God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.


As exhausting as it is for Lesbians having to defend themselves against accusations of Bigotry because they feel that not liking male sex organs is a large part of their Lesbian Identity.

Yes, it's exhausting but it's a debate that needs to be had.
 
2020-07-07 9:23:22 AM  
4 votes:
"I have a billion dollars. I can say whatever I want. All you can do is deny me future dollars and Im fine with that."

All of her life's major accomplishments are in the past. SDGAF (She don't give a Fark). Sadly, I doubt you'll even get a mea culpa in the name of money, let alone earnest regret.
 
2020-07-07 9:10:45 AM  
4 votes:

CanisNoir: meanmutton: Bloomin Bloomberg: huh. today's "JK Rowling hate" thread is early.

keep fighting the good fight JK -the civilized majority science and medical-denying bigots stands with you.

FTFY

This confuses me, "Gender is a social construct that is separate from Sex" has no basis in scientific reasoning and cannot be proven through the Scientific Method. It's just a philosophical thought experiment at this point.

So which side are you calling "science and medical-denying bigots" ?


Probably the side whose argument is that gender is somehow pre-programmed but not observable across cultures.

As a guess.

Usually for the scientific method to apply, you need to replicate its results and just dismiss the vast multitude of contradictions as "outliers".

Otherwise global warming doesn't exist because it's only hot during the summer and winter. The rest of the time it perfectly fits into MY expectations!
 
2020-07-08 3:38:03 PM  
3 votes:

truthandjustice: Enomai: Also, please stop conflating leftism and liberalism. All Americans are liberals by definition under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Please show me where I did this. I never use the word "leftism".
Also, seems I'm not alone in my - liberal - confusion:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook​/2019/09/12/stop-calling-bernie-sander​s-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-liberals/


You didn't. I'm inferring from your diction that when you refer to thought controlling liberals that you are actually describing leftists, who are authoritarian. Liberalism concerns the tenets of the first amendment and the consent of the governed and that's it. So anyone who is "anti-liberalism" is saying, based on what that word means, that they don't believe in free speech, the right to peacefully assemble, and the free press. The WaPo article you link to gets to the point I'm making. And though I personally find both disagreeable, David Rubin had Ben Shapiro on his podcast and this exact point was made to the extent that even Ben Shapiro recognized the importance of not saying liberal when you mean leftist.

This thought control issue that you have is not something that a liberal would disagree with you on is my point. You can have authoritarians on both the left and right side of the political spectrum.
 
2020-07-08 3:10:04 PM  
3 votes:

truthandjustice: And I honestly don't know much about Rowling. I've never even read her books or seen the movies based on them. I don't think she's evil though. Most people aren't.

truthandjustice: I don't even know what "leftist" is. I wonder every time I see it, but can't be bothered to google it for some reason.


You certainly have a lot of firm opinions and speak a lot on topics you admit to having little knowledge of.
 
2020-07-08 10:34:51 AM  
3 votes:

Eclectic: thatguyoverthere70: These threads stress me out.

They suck the life out of me. The same tired-ass "I'm not anti-trans, but..." arguments in every single thread for the 17 years I've been on Fark. The individual posters are slightly different from thread to thread, but it's the same script.

I've tried hard to educate. To be visible, at least. To push back against the worst of it. But it gets so old. And when we reach a saturation point like we have this week with four Rowling/trans threads in 72 hours, most of us in the Fark trans community have to walk away for our mental health. Which unfortunately means that sometimes the threads get even worse.

I am so grateful for the allies that fight for us when we're not here, because we just get ground to paste and need breaks.


It's good you took a break yesterday.  There was/is a massive thread on Rowling mewling about how unfair it is that she can't spread transphobic bullshiat without consequences.

It's come out that the trans author was not told who would be signing the letter with her and withdrew herself after publication when she realised she was aligning herself with Rowling.
 
2020-07-08 9:41:05 AM  
3 votes:

garron: soporific: bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.

It is often used to justify violence. You don't get credit for not threatening violence when you find yourself in wholehearted agreement with those who do. Especially when they turn around and use your words to justify their violence.

By your logic, we can hold you personally responsible and destroy your life because you are in political agreement with the following people:

- James Hodgkinson - leftist activist who shot Congressman Steve Scalise
- Micah Xavier Johnson - BLM activist who killed 5 Dallas Police Officers
- The BLM rioters who killed David Dorn and Secoriea Turner and killed or injured scores of others
- etc, etc, etc.

Heck, let's add the Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) to the list.  He was a left-wing environmentalist.

The ideals you support sparked this violence.  So now we can some after you personally right?



Bless your heart. You're trying so hard. It's almost adorable.
 
2020-07-08 8:34:31 AM  
3 votes:

Eclectic: thatguyoverthere70: These threads stress me out.

They suck the life out of me. The same tired-ass "I'm not anti-trans, but..." arguments in every single thread for the 17 years I've been on Fark. The individual posters are slightly different from thread to thread, but it's the same script.

I've tried hard to educate. To be visible, at least. To push back against the worst of it. But it gets so old. And when we reach a saturation point like we have this week with four Rowling/trans threads in 72 hours, most of us in the Fark trans community have to walk away for our mental health. Which unfortunately means that sometimes the threads get even worse.

I am so grateful for the allies that fight for us when we're not here, because we just get ground to paste and need breaks.


I know this thread will be closed any minute. I had planned on tapping out of this one because this subject stresses me out so badly. I know there will be opportunities to post on this subject in the near future, since these Rowling threads are a daily thing now, it seems.

"Liberals" are not trying to control what anyone else thinks. If someone wants to agree with Rowling, they can do it. Go for it. Knock themselves out. Rowling has the freedom to think what she thinks and she has the freedom to hold and express whatever opinions she wants to hold and express, no matter how ignorant or enlightened they may be. And the people that disagree with her are also free to express their opinions as well.

I am so sick of certain people that say they believe that transgender women are women, but still feel the need to post on these threads acting like they are the ones that are being attacked unfairly and oppressed. And then they're so self-unaware that they don't even realize that they're trying to make it all about themselves. Helpful hint to those people: if you believe transgender women are women and transgender men are men, yet are still in here trying to pick arguments with trans people and allies and acting like you're the one being oppressed, you are not helping.
 
2020-07-08 2:27:46 AM  
3 votes:
trialpha:

You've just lost the support of anybody who may have been mostly on your side but needed to be convinced of the remainder. Now, instead of a possible ally, you have someone going "fark your cause"

The people who are openly disregarding the humanity of another person for things that have no impact on them, as bigots like Rowling are willing to do, aren't interested in becoming allies.
 
2020-07-08 2:18:18 AM  
3 votes:
CanisNoir:

This confuses me, "Gender is a social construct that is separate from Sex" has no basis in scientific reasoning and cannot be proven through the Scientific Method

Are you posting from 1972?
 
2020-07-07 4:52:28 PM  
3 votes:

bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.


Henry II: Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?
 
2020-07-07 3:01:36 PM  
3 votes:

CanisNoir: You are condescending, unempathetic, smug and unwilling to bring any type of understanding on the subject unless it is loaded with scorn.


New in town, sailor? Welcome. You get used to it.
 
2020-07-07 2:01:40 PM  
3 votes:

trialpha: karl2025: Because she's a TERF. Her particular anti-transgender mindset is rooted in feminism, she (incorrectly) believes trans women should be excluded in order to protect women both physically and socially, that including trans women as women undermines "real" women. So when you tell her to stop talking, she's not hearing that as legitimate criticism of her bigotry, she's hearing that as you being anti-feminist. So she keeps talking because she is trying to be a good person and defend women, she's just doing it in an incredibly hurtful and disrespectful way.

There's always a hideous amount of problems when people try to treat X as Y.

To most of the populace, a woman is someone who has both female sex and female gender. Does this mean transwomen should be excluded from women only things? To those people following that definition, yes. Telling those people that it is exclusionary or bigoted is the same as saying excluding men from women only things is exclusionary/bigoted. It's not going to work.


You're going to need to cite that statistic because I'm pretty sure that you're just quoting your own confirmation bias.
 
2020-07-07 12:37:38 PM  
3 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: Cormee: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.

I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.

You didn't demonstrate anything. All you said was "false, try again"

Keep reading the thread .......


I did, but in your Weeners, the one I commented on, you came across as dismissive and arrogant, claiming to have done something you hadn't actually done.
 
2020-07-07 12:37:14 PM  
3 votes:
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size


Uh...

In other news Margaret Atwood is raging against TERFs who love the Handmaid's Tale.
 
2020-07-07 11:27:36 AM  
3 votes:

Fano: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

Don't forget the humorous use of date rape drugs and memory modification


The entire magical community was one generation removed from genocide and most of the kids had no idea it happened, what the signs were, who was involved, etc. If you step back and analyze the Ministry of Magic, they were terrible at their jobs, protecting the magical community from future abuses.
 
2020-07-07 10:50:18 AM  
3 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Many XX individuals in this world were born as full biological males.  And many XY individuals in this world were born as full biological females.

So it can't be as simple as just the chromosome, now can it?


So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structure

https://www.livescience.com/27248-chr​o​mosomes.html

How sex is determined
Humans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.
Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.
All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.



Please expand on that answer since it appears you have more knowledge on the subject than I.
 
2020-07-07 10:27:53 AM  
3 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

They were books written for children. Children do not analyze story books on this level, because they're children.


Do you have a point aside from demonstrating pride in your obtuseness?  Do you think that because children don't do deeper literary criticism of their works that they're immune to the deeper meanings?  Do you consider the teenagers that the books are actually targeted at to be children that don't analyze their books at all?  Do you have *anything* useful to say?
 
2020-07-07 10:15:09 AM  
3 votes:

Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.


Don't forget the humorous use of date rape drugs and memory modification
 
2020-07-07 8:36:41 AM  
3 votes:

Marcos P: Maybe she's going senile?


Maybe someone is using the imperious curse on her?
 
2020-07-07 8:31:28 AM  
3 votes:

Wraithstrike: At this point, JK Rowling has become this generation's H.P. Lovecraft.

She created a fantastic world, with a lot of interesting lore that people will be talking about for ages. There will be fanfiction, movies, tv series, video games of the world she has created. The world she made will far outlive her.

However, the person behind those works has willfully chosen to be on the wrong side of history. The author's personal stances will forever color the perception of the fans and the general consensus will be to appreciate the works, but reject the person who made them.


Not even close
 
2020-07-07 8:29:42 AM  
3 votes:
Famous authors were always puds, but social media wasn't there for Mark Twain to let us know his feelings on whatever the hot topics of 1888 were.
 
2020-07-08 10:06:54 AM  
2 votes:

garron: soporific: bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.

It is often used to justify violence. You don't get credit for not threatening violence when you find yourself in wholehearted agreement with those who do. Especially when they turn around and use your words to justify their violence.

By your logic, we can hold you personally responsible and destroy your life because you are in political agreement with the following people:

- James Hodgkinson - leftist activist who shot Congressman Steve Scalise

The ideals you support sparked this violence.  So now we can some after you personally right?


A hero that I wish had had better aim.

Execute the traitors.
 
2020-07-08 8:04:24 AM  
2 votes:
These threads stress me out.
 
2020-07-07 6:07:36 PM  
2 votes:

Khellendros: CanisNoir: So I admit, I did not major in Biology, so I pulled my answer from Live Sciences article :Chromosomes: Definition & Structurehttps://www.livescience.com/2​7248-chromosomes.htmlHow sex is determinedHumans have an additional pair of sex chromosomes for a total of 46 chromosomes. The sex chromosomes are referred to as X and Y, and their combination determines a person's sex. Typically, human females have two X chromosomes while males possess an XY pairing. This XY sex-determination system is found in most mammals as well as some reptiles and plants.Whether a person has XX or XY chromosomes is determined when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Unlike the body's other cells, the cells in the egg and sperm - called gametes or sex cells - possess only one chromosome. Gametes are produced by meiosis cell division, which results in the divided cells having half the number of chromosomes as the parent, or progenitor, cells. In the case of humans, this means that parent cells have two chromosomes and gametes have one.All of the gametes in the mother's eggs possess X chromosomes. The father's sperm contains about half X and half Y chromosomes. The sperm are the variable factor in determining the sex of the baby. If the sperm carries an X chromosome, it will combine with the egg's X chromosome to form a female zygote. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, it will result in a male.

This is a very good middle school explanation.  But it's a statistical argument focusing on a general case.

Among a sizable portion of the population, there is a significant disconnect between the bits between their legs, the chromosomes they carry, and the juices flowing in their bodies.  There are many people with a penis who have XX chromosomes, or XY with a vagina.  There are some that have both.  There are some with XXY (Klinfelters and non-Klinefelters), XYY, XXXY, XXYY, XO, and other combinations as well.

Many have completely disparate sexual or genital development from their general physic ...


BTW, you didn't mention it directly here, so I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but look into chimerism if you haven't run across it..  That is always good to bring up in discussions on this topic.

/Have deliberately made chimeric chickens in the past.  Too much work to be viable in agriculture, unfortunately.
 
2020-07-07 5:59:50 PM  
2 votes:
Leftists want to destroy people's lives and take away their ability to earn a living or get an education simply because they have different opinions - even if they are fellow leftists like JK Rowling. 

Look in the mirror and you will see the biggest evil plaguing the world right now.
 
2020-07-07 4:05:33 PM  
2 votes:

Enomai: You're the one shrieking.


umm, no.
 
2020-07-07 4:04:11 PM  
2 votes:
trialpha:
On the street? It doesn't matter. It's only relevant when accessing a sex/gender (usually woman) restricted area. And even then, only if not convincing.

So in other words, women in the bathroom are threatened if they perceive other women in the bathroom to be sufficiently ugly enough that their imagination paints a picture of brutal assault. Is that right? How did you come to this conclusion?
 
2020-07-07 3:36:04 PM  
2 votes:
trialpha: your opinion isn't worth evaluating.

No one is screaming at you.  The quoted definitely applies, though.
 
2020-07-07 3:04:22 PM  
2 votes:

hammer85: Geotpf: Mindfield of a subject, obviously, but here's one place where there's at least a logical argument: Sports.

Men and women are separated in most sports, in large part because men have distinct advantages over women in many/most sports due to muscle mass, etc.; if women and men competed against each other in such sports (assuming the same level of practice and training) men would beat women all or almost all of the time in such sports.

So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?

/I'm full on devil's advocating this here
//in general, I tend to go by "people are who or what they want to be"

Fark this argument and fark everything about considering it "logical".  Farking just respect and love people for who they are, not what you want to dictate them to be and do.


To get a larger percentage of people to accept trans people for who they are, reasonable counters to arguments like this need to be made.  Just screaming "Fark you" is not helpful.
 
2020-07-07 2:42:37 PM  
2 votes:

Geotpf: So, should a trans woman (especially assuming no hormones, surgery, etc.) be allowed to compete against people who were born female, considering this advantage?


Since trans advocates are arguing "transwomen are women", yes.

And they wonder why people have a problem with that.
 
2020-07-07 2:37:46 PM  
2 votes:

Armored Vomit Doll: Cormee: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.

I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.

You didn't demonstrate anything. All you said was "false, try again"

Keep reading the thread .......


Your posts taking the sea lion out behind the woodshed so thoroughly that it freaked out on you abandoned the thread was an incredibly satisfying read, cheers!
 
2020-07-07 1:39:08 PM  
2 votes:

karl2025: Because she's a TERF. Her particular anti-transgender mindset is rooted in feminism, she (incorrectly) believes trans women should be excluded in order to protect women both physically and socially, that including trans women as women undermines "real" women. So when you tell her to stop talking, she's not hearing that as legitimate criticism of her bigotry, she's hearing that as you being anti-feminist. So she keeps talking because she is trying to be a good person and defend women, she's just doing it in an incredibly hurtful and disrespectful way.


There's always a hideous amount of problems when people try to treat X as Y.

To most of the populace, a woman is someone who has both female sex and female gender. Does this mean transwomen should be excluded from women only things? To those people following that definition, yes. Telling those people that it is exclusionary or bigoted is the same as saying excluding men from women only things is exclusionary/bigoted. It's not going to work.
 
2020-07-07 12:40:09 PM  
2 votes:
https://twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/wi​t​h_replies

If you want some contrast from J Karen Rowling.

"Harry Potter And The Bigoted Old Crone Who Dismantled Her Own Legacy"
 
2020-07-07 12:27:42 PM  
2 votes:
Rowling was always like this, at least on this issue.

Dumbledore kept dead naming Voldemort.  "Never be afraid to call a thing by its name."  It was even plot-centric, that Harry had to know what he was, before he became the Dark Lord that he later identified as.  Sure, it isn't about gender, but it shows the values.

Hermione and SPEW, where she kept insisting she knew better than the elves about their situation.

These people are seen as the good guys, brave for their belief, and everyone else as cowardly, apathetic, or outright self-serving on the issues.  The "Wizarding world" on its whole has a bunch of flaws (love potions and memory charms have already been mentioned), but few of them are called out as wrong, instead of as simply a nuisance to the main characters.

She didn't change.
 
2020-07-07 12:19:12 PM  
2 votes:

Cormee: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: CanisNoir:

First question: what determines if a human zygote develops into a male or a female?  I highly doubt you'll even get this question correct.

It depends upon the chromosome carried in the Sperm cell.

Continue.

False.  Try again.

Don't play games - how is it false? You are making the claim and I made a good faith attempt at answering, now either explain yourself or sit there and call me stupid. The later would make you a horrible spokesperson for your side of this debate so I'm hoping for the former otherwise we're done here.

I see no reason to argue in good faith here, since you aren't arguing in good faith.  My point here is simply to demonstrate to the thread that you have no idea what you are talking about, so they know that they can ignore your ill-informed "opinions" on this topic.

You didn't demonstrate anything. All you said was "false, try again"


Keep reading the thread .......
 
2020-07-07 11:34:43 AM  
2 votes:

PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.


Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.
 
2020-07-07 10:52:29 AM  
2 votes:

Khellendros: HotWingConspiracy: They were books written for children. Children do not analyze story books on this level, because they're children.

No, it's far more dangerous.  They don't come to conclusions based on analysis, they carry the constructed tropes and apply them to their lives without analysis.  It becomes "normal" to do so.  The YouTube project "Lessons Animation Taught Me" goes into great detail on how movies and media from your early life shape your mind in exceptionally broad ways.  The repeated messages we take away from books, movies, television shows, etc. when we're children is staggeringly powerful.


Think of how romantic heroes were portrayed in 80s movies. Practically all of them were stalkers, harassers, committing rape by deception, drugs, threats etc. AND THESE ARE ROLE MODELS! Lloyd Dobler, sensitive guy or total creep?
No wonder guys wouldn't take no for an answer, it was literally what we were taught to do. In that respect Incels are basically dudes discovering that that horrible formula doesn't work and can't cope with it.
 
2020-07-07 10:47:54 AM  
2 votes:

CanisNoir: Armored Vomit Doll: We don't refer to the distinct genotypes in society. That's the point. The concept of race is based on human perception, but not on the reality of the situation.

Then what is the purpose of the social construct?


Why does it need to have a purpose?

Again, you are begging the question.  You need to demonstrate that social constructs need to have purposes before demanding that I tell you this particular construct's purpose.
 
2020-07-07 10:47:16 AM  
2 votes:

AdrienVeidt: HotWingConspiracy: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

They were books written for children. Children do not analyze story books on this level, because they're children.

Do you have a point aside from demonstrating pride in your obtuseness?  Do you think that because children don't do deeper literary criticism of their works that they're immune to the deeper meanings?  Do you consider the teenagers that the books are actually targeted at to be children that don't analyze their books at all?  Do you have *anything* useful to say?


Hey I get it, I've seen grown men reduced to a frothing rage when it's pointed out to them that they don't like the new Star Wars movies because they're made for children.

You wish to apply serious analysis to a fairy tale and it's become very frustrating for you to the point that you lash out at strangers for pointing it out.
 
2020-07-07 9:56:40 AM  
2 votes:
Why is this in the Entertainment Tab?
It's not entertaining at all.
 
2020-07-07 9:40:14 AM  
2 votes:

batlock666: CanisNoir: In my opinion Gender as a social construct described the "Truth" that is biological sex.

What truth is that?


I would prefer you post your points to indicate you actually thought about this instead of just whipping out a wiki article. There are exceptions to every rule, especially in the imperfect system that is biological evolution. We do not make the rules based on the exception but rather the norm that can be quantified. That norm is "Male" and "Female"

In addition Intersex people are generally born with one or the other of their sexual organs having a larger size which is what is currently used to medically decide.

So I will ask again - do you believe that Reality is just a hierarchy of social constructs existing within a power dynamic or do you believe that there is an Objective Reality?.

Do you believe Science is the search for the truth or the search to disprove the truth?

Those are the fundamental questions.
 
2020-07-07 8:31:33 AM  
2 votes:
Read Another Book
 
2020-07-08 4:10:11 PM  
1 vote:

truthandjustice: "Differences between liberalism and radicalism also surface in our ceaseless debates over free speech on campus, online and elsewhere. Seeing equal rights as the cornerstone of a just society, liberals insist speakers should not be silenced for expressing unpopular or offensive views.A growing faction on the far left, however, mirroring elements of the religious right, favors denying free-speech rights to those who hold ideas it believes crosses inviolable lines - leading to incidents like the assaults on political scientist Charles Murray at Middlebury College or conservative journalist Andy Ngo in Portland, Ore. (The appropriateness of preemptive violence can also be a dividing line between liberalism and radicalism.)"And now that I've read about it, I would not call myself a Leftist - Progressive... Liberal? Sure.


Being a "radical" is not the same as being "progressive" or "leftist".  Try again.
 
2020-07-08 3:54:46 PM  
1 vote:
media0.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-08 2:24:42 PM  
1 vote:

thatguyoverthere70: These threads stress me out.


That's because you are trying to do the impossible.
You can't control others thoughts.
Give it up.
 
2020-07-07 8:17:29 PM  
1 vote:

Enomai: Trik: Enomai: You're the one shrieking.

umm, no.

Your contribution to this thread has been, to paraphrase: "Libs be like", "you know how libs are", libs, libs, libs. "Libs want to make me tolerant, ain't gonna happen".

So, you know, shrieking.


No indoor speaking level pointing out what liberals do to those with differing opinions.
Things like doxing, stalking, harassing families, harassing employers or sponsors.
Name calling and so on.
 
2020-07-07 5:16:52 PM  
1 vote:

Eclectic: Hey, it's me. One of those scary scary trans women you're trying to tell where she's allowed/not allowed to pee. You want to force me into the men's bathroom where I'll be targeted for assault? Where I'll be outed against my will in public? F*ck you to death with an iron cactus.

[Fark user image 384x624]


Ye gads, you're terrifying - run!

(Because I'm gonna run away from anyone I see that's farking someone to death with an iron cactus.)

/the rest of it?
//not so terrifying
///no, no idea wtf is with a bunch of my fellow olds and oldishes
 
2020-07-07 5:00:34 PM  
1 vote:

Armored Vomit Doll: bglove25: PickleBarrel: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem because what she says harms others.

Speech is not violence. Sorry. Heck, she never even threatens violence.

Henry II: Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?


sigh...and I wasted all those other words...
 
2020-07-07 4:36:40 PM  
1 vote:

Commander Lysdexic: truthandjustice: Trik: bglove25: If you don't like what JK Rowling says or thinks, don't listen to her. Problem solved.

Liberals believe they have the right to control your thoughts and opinions.

I am a liberal.
And I've recently learned - that you are correct.

The world is not flat.
vaccines work.
transwomen are women.

Each of those three statements will throw a group of people into a frenzy of righteous indignation, claiming that they are the real victims of an alleged conspiracy to control them and force them to think a certain way.
All three groups are wrong.

\Does your username refer to the things you hate and want to see erased?


You do not have the right to control the way any one else thinks. You do not have the ABILITY to control the way anyone else thinks.
And I'm not a hater.
I'm a lover :)
 
2020-07-07 4:07:11 PM  
1 vote:

SirMadness: So in other words, women in the bathroom are threatened if they perceive other women in the bathroom to be sufficiently ugly enough that their imagination paints a picture of brutal assault. Is that right? How did you come to this conclusion?


Yes. Don't look at me - this is what I've been hearing from women.
 
2020-07-07 4:00:45 PM  
1 vote:

Eclectic: TERF


I see toxic liberals have a new catchphrase to shriek at people who disagree with them.
Along with the old reliable bigot and racist, along with the newish incel.

There are many more but those are the immediate fallbacks and most quickly used.
 
2020-07-07 4:00:25 PM  
1 vote:

SirMadness: Okay, I'll bite.

How do you know? When you meet a woman on the street, how would you ever know if they don't match?

Even if you think you can just tell, how can you be certain they're trans and not simply in drag or a crossdresser?

At what point does it become your business?


On the street? It doesn't matter. It's only relevant when accessing a sex/gender (usually woman) restricted area. And even then, only if not convincing.
 
2020-07-07 3:49:31 PM  
1 vote:

Khellendros: See, this is where you completely trip over your own argument. The public doesn't have to change shiat. Stop bugging people about what goddamn bathroom they use. I don't have to change a damn thing about my bathroom habits, regardless of whether a transperson decides to use the bathroom I'm in or not. Leave. Them. The. Fark. Alone. About. It.


I don't either. But women do. Because they've spent their entire lives with "someone who looks like a man walking into their washroom = problem"

Khellendros: Utterly irrelevant, and people like you seem to have a pathological need to make definitions based on biological distinctions you clearly don't understand to exclude people. We don't need to have the lunch counter argument again. We don't need "separate but equal" bathrooms based on gender, sex, genitalia, testosterone levels, Y chromosome tests, or anything else.


At this point, you're effectively advocating for unisex bathrooms. I don't have a problem with that (as long as urinals are still present), but again, women do.

Khellendros: I didn't scream. I said if people's arguments are based on stupid idea, they're not worth discussing. Telling someone who's convinced that blacks shouldn't have the same rights until we define if they need to wear reflectors at night while jogging isn't a worthwhile discussion. And they're idiots if they're making those arguments. Same with sporting classifications or whether bathrooms should be based on sex, gender, or some other arbitrary concept. I don't give a fark if JK Rowling is uncomfortable with someone in the stall next to her. If they're in there pissing, leave them alone about it.


"Not worth discussing", "idiots", etc. You've just lost the support of anybody who may have been mostly on your side but needed to be convinced of the remainder. Now, instead of a possible ally, you have someone going "fark your cause"
 
2020-07-07 3:40:46 PM  
1 vote:

LowbrowDeluxe: trialpha: your opinion isn't worth evaluating.

No one is screaming at you. The quoted definitely applies, though.


Sure, don't be surprised when you don't succeed then.
 
2020-07-07 3:33:09 PM  
1 vote:

Khellendros: This is a minor, piddling concern that isn't handled in the dozens of cases and abnormalities I cited above either. At this point, we're talking about rights to use bathrooms and not be assumed to be a sexual predator, or to have legal rights to change your gender on state forms, or not be fired, or have rights to housing.


That was the easiest example, and is the direct result of advocates saying "transwomen are women".

Bathrooms - are they sex or gender based? Many would argue sex. This is probably one of the biggest sticking points, since it requires the general public to modify their behavior. Good luck with that.
Gender on state forms - most forms I've seen (though this varies), have sex, not gender. Transwomen are not female sex. This is probably an argument to include both.

I agree that being fired or evicted because of being trans should not be a thing.

Khellendros: If your argument against legal protections and equality for transpersons is based on whether someone in a weightlifting competition has a penis or too much testosterone, go reexamine your basic ethics and human empathy. You're not useful to the conversation and your opinion isn't worth evaluating.


Yeah, immediately screaming at anyone not 100% on board certainly helps the trans cause.
 
2020-07-07 3:28:34 PM  
1 vote:
bglove25:

So, you her publisher or what?  I'm just having trouble imagining why else someone would be this invested in pretending her opinion holds no weight.
 
2020-07-07 2:44:48 PM  
1 vote:

Commander Lysdexic: bglove25: Which socially regressive Congresspersons are citing a children's author on serious social policy? And do you honestly think they'll actually pass legislation that won't get immediately struck down by the courts?

This one, when blocking legislation


Ah yes, the famously pro-Trans Senate, being held up by one pesky vote.... oh wait that's not the situation and this is a grandstanding tactic? And blocking new legislation isn't taking away rights that are already granted (like say, taking away protections for LGBTQ+ employees, which would get stuck down immediately). So again, unless you think JK Rowling is actually influential on Mitch McConnell... But feel free to get super upset about it.
 
2020-07-07 2:35:05 PM  
1 vote:

Commander Lysdexic: Truth is not democratic and human rights should never be assigned based on popular vote.


Sure, but that's irrelevant when you're trying to convince the 90% of the people who believe otherwise.

Commander Lysdexic: transwomen are women.


What definition of woman are you using? If it's just gender, sure. If it includes sex - and a lot of people do - it's patently false.
 
2020-07-07 2:10:48 PM  
1 vote:

punkwrestler: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

And you didn't even mention how the goblin bankers are crook nosed, showing her anti-Semitic feelings.


A few days ago I ha heard a streamer claim that the goblins in world of Warcraft were also based on jews, I always thought of them as being more like ferengi.
 
2020-07-07 10:45:19 AM  
1 vote:

Armored Vomit Doll: We don't refer to the distinct genotypes in society. That's the point. The concept of race is based on human perception, but not on the reality of the situation.


Then what is the purpose of the social construct?
 
2020-07-07 10:31:40 AM  
1 vote:

Fano: Invisible Obama: While the HP books were fun, they DID have some rather fascist overtones to them in retrospect.

Think of the analogy for slavery and race relations with house elves, or how Hagrid was treated because of his half-giant ancestry.

Think about how apparently they have absolutely no problem with outright torture in their prisons, given what Azkaban is like, not to mention the I found whole thing with the dementors kiss to be profoundly disturbing when I was reading them. . .literally destroying people's souls with only the most prefunctory of judicial process.

Think about the level of dystopian surveillance needed to make their laws about wizardry work.

Then the level of secrecy required.  If you just happen, as a child, to have magical talent. . .suddenly you have to keep it from the world, and can't use it except when and where you're allowed, and have to go to a boarding school for years to get that permission.

The more you peel back the layers, there's a lot of right-wing fantasies about power, control, and racial identity in HP.

It's glossed over because you see it from the POV of a young boy who is gifted, popular, inherits a small fortune, and finds the whole scenario to be an escape from an abusive home life. . .but for many (or most) other students there it would be far less ideal.

JK being a TERF isn't THAT much of a surprise when you step back and look at it.

Don't forget the humorous use of date rape drugs and memory modification


Didn't read the books but don't recall dater rape in the movies.
With the memory modification iirc it was kill them or make them forget type thing.
 
2020-07-07 10:16:46 AM  
1 vote:

Enomai: CanisNoir: Enomai: God damn, three of these in 3 days? Fark is really farming this topic right now. Has to be exhausting for trans people to keep defending this with the same posts pointed at different screen names.

As exhausting as it is for Lesbians having to defend themselves against accusations of Bigotry because they feel that not liking male sex organs is a large part of their Lesbian Identity.

Yes, it's exhausting but it's a debate that needs to be had.

If it needs to be had, I have questions as to whether an anonymous forum as snarky as this place would be the appropriate venue for it. Lesbians might not be attracted to male parts, but pansexuals probably do not have an issue with them since sex isn't the primary vector for attraction. Why then isn't it sufficient to just say that you aren't into those people? If you aren't bigoted then don't take offense when someone tries to label you as such. You have agency as much as anyone does to choose a partner for yourself. I'm a southerner who doesn't fly confederate flags and thinks racism is one of THE things holding back humanity. The mocking in the public space of the "south will rise" jackasses doesn't land with me and doesn't make me defensive.


Well first, I stated up front that the Trans community was suffering and that needs attention, I also stipulated that Social Constructs were real and that any one persons identity was valid. I do not see any attempts at mockery in that - there tacit recognition of each individuals "Truth" as being valid.

As to why a public forum? Because it's a public debate, and sadly the venues with which to have it in are very limited. I try to keep my points to the broader philosophical debate as I see it and hope I get some intelligent people from the other side to challenge me and I try and ignore the chaff - occasionally piping in, admittedly.

I think I am right but am no way claiming I absolutely am right - this is why I hope for intelligent challenge.

Regarding Lesbians, it's because they are being de-platformed, de-monetized and having their reputations ruined because they are being labeled as bigots. If it was as simple as just being able to say "no thanks, not my thing" then there would be no need for this. I am a firm believer in words only having the power I infuse them with as the receiver so just being called a "bigot" is no big deal, but when my ability to make a living is at stake, then it becomes a big deal.

In the end, the reason this is a needed and public debate is because we are being asked to legislate the entirety of society based upon a small minorities "Subjective Truth" that cannot be quantified and has no limiting factor. I think having a serious philosophical debate around the ramifications that might have on society at large is one we need to have if that's the direction we're going to go.

I am curious about something you said upthread though. How do you expand upon your statement that trans has no basis is scientific reasoning or is unobservable via the scientific method? Over a broad enough sample group, this variance certainly appears and is observed on a repeated basis. This observation has occurred in cultures older than our own.

Well to correct, I did not say Trans had no basis in scientific fact, I stated that "Gender is a social construct and is separate from Biological Sex" has no basis in scientific fact. As far as I can see, there is no way to quantify whether or not a Social Construct defines reality, yet there is a way to quantify it describing reality.

i.e. The sun did not actually revolve around the earth prior to the Copernican model even though an Earth Centric Universe was the Social Construct that described the Truth of the Universe as we knew it. The Earth always revolved around the sun. (that's my claim - I guess some could argue that they believe it actually did revolve around the earthy but...)
 
2020-07-07 10:02:30 AM  
1 vote:

Armored Vomit Doll: Any explanation (or rule) which does not account for all possibilities is not a scientific explanation. Scientists doesn't ignore things which are inconvenient to their claims, they modify their claims to account for them.


Okay, so in what quantifiable way has biology deviating from "Male" and "Female" being the two sexes? To be honest you may have to clarify your point here though, I might be misunderstanding your statement.

Science is the search for the truth, which means it doesn't get to ignore empirical reality just because reality throws a monkey-wrench into what people wants to believe.

So you do believe in an "Objective Reality" and that Science is the search for that, good.

What purpose do Social Constructs have in relation to that objective reality? Do they define it or would you say they are more of a descriptor?
 
2020-07-07 9:54:17 AM  
1 vote:

lolmao500: JK rowling was always white UK trash?


A chav without a track suit?
 
2020-07-07 9:38:25 AM  
1 vote:
JK rowling was always white UK trash?
 
2020-07-07 9:33:49 AM  
1 vote:
meh... i was expecting something more outrageous.  but on the other hand doesn't she have anything better to do?  come on jk rowling, can't you do something a little more positive during this crazy time than criticize people for their own choices? jk's not even a trans, right?  (im wondering a little bit now...)  that'd be like me having a problem with other people getting boob jobs and tattoos.... who cares? not my beeswax

/i don't know anything about transgender hormone therapy other than it's for chicks with dicks to become more chicky and less dicky
 
2020-07-07 8:26:00 AM  
1 vote:
I think it's great that she gets a forum for her opinions funded by folks who are only interested in the value of her as clickbait.
 
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