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(The Street)   Citigroup believes new CEO will totally turn around Harley-Davidson. Do they mean selling bikes that appeal to more than Suburban White guys who want to prove what rebels they are?   (thestreet.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Remainder, Income, Revenue, Motorcycle, Harley-Davidson, Shares of the Milwaukee company, Analyst Shawn Collins, new CEO Jochen Zeitz  
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395 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jul 2020 at 5:20 PM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-07-06 4:19:51 PM  
What they did to Buell is unforgivable.
 
2020-07-06 4:24:51 PM  

Driedsponge: What they did to Buell is unforgivable.


Agreed.  They would be in so much better place now if they would have just had a spine and fully and truly committed.
 
2020-07-06 4:45:45 PM  
Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.
 
2020-07-06 4:48:38 PM  
Buy some designs that people actually want and start manufacturing "ricers".
 
2020-07-06 4:56:05 PM  

blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.


I would love to get my hands on a Zero SR/S.
 
2020-07-06 5:02:30 PM  
Sure will miss those guys. Leather vests. No shirt. Flip flops. Revving the shiat out of their fuel-injected bikes at every stop light. Glaring at you and taking off as fast as possible at the green, even though you're in the turn lane and going in a completely different direction...
 
2020-07-06 5:06:57 PM  
The first thing we have to do us ban the MBA.

Let's see, hire the head of Delta Airlines to run RedHat, hire this arsehole from Citi (scum) to run a motorcycle company...

They know how to ROI this quarter. Build the company? Keep it going? But... ROI?!
 
2020-07-06 5:09:06 PM  
Maybe they mean turning around an actual Harley, which requires about 100 feet of clearance.
 
2020-07-06 5:23:46 PM  

revrendjim: Maybe they mean turning around an actual Harley, which requires about 100 feet of clearance.


Or 30 feet of clearance, plus a good bit off the soles of your bike boots and some strenuous huffing and puffing.
 
2020-07-06 5:25:54 PM  
And, by "turn it around," they mean "push the IP to a holding company, pump the stock until it breaks $60 a share, let activist shareholders dump it like Courtney Love, dissolve the subsidiaries, then market the IP to Chinese manufacturers for the foreseeable future."

You didn't mean "turn it around" for the workers, did you?
 
2020-07-06 5:33:02 PM  
Build bikes younger riders can afford and want to ride.
 
2020-07-06 5:35:57 PM  
Boomers love Harley.
Harley is on borrowed time especially since boomers will not retire and want to get all the money. No one responsible will even consider it.It's a dying brand.

That culture is dated and no one even wants to pretend to be in it unless their hair is grey. That screams rebel to no one.
 
2020-07-06 5:36:05 PM  
He will include an oil drip pan and kitty litter with each bike so you wont ruin your garage/driveway when the thing leaks like a sieve.
 
2020-07-06 5:42:20 PM  
Stop selling a lifestyle and start selling vehicles. Easy Rider came out 50 years ago.
 
2020-07-06 5:42:36 PM  

blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.


Gibson guitars are also an icon who built a convoluted mess of instruments over the last 20 years and lost the faith of musicians;  Just google the list of failed, insanely expensive, downright ugly instruments they put out that didn't hit.  The last couple years,   They've reduced their model lineup and appear to have turned a quality corner for the better;  but 5 years ago? you'd be insane to throw money at a 3k guitar with a gimmick like "robo tuners".  Or finish imperfections.  or really a single thing on it that isn't perfect.

I know guitars are different, but theres a lot of similarity here too.  Japan and the eastern continents put out some pretty compelling instruments and a lot lower price point.  So that US model is supposed to be your ultimate instrument, the one that will retain more of its value and be made to exacting standards.

The big difference here is you're talking a few hundred dollars for a foreign made guitar, vs a couple thousand for a US model, something that even if you only make 15 bucks an hour, if you really want one you can save up for one.

You get into ten thousand for a very compelling japanese cruiser, vs the tens of thousands for a comparable harley... well they have a big hill to climb.  I think harley could live on as a name brand but as we've all talked about in these threads, their consumer base is falling apart and they have blown so much time on failed gimmicks, some of which that should have succeeded..except they can't attract anyone who isn't harley faithful, or their dealerships treat non-harley guys like garbage, or they're seen as something for our parents or grandparents at this point.

I think they either become a very small boutique manufacturer, or move to 100% overseas production to reduce costs and improve "shareholder value".  It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
2020-07-06 5:47:58 PM  

blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.


Yeah I feel bad for you assholes who drive by my house at all hours, or when I'm in town sitting outside trying to enjoy a meal, while you make yourselves a loud a possible.  Truly an American icon.  Dick.  Put a mask on and a muffler on your ride.
 
2020-07-06 6:09:07 PM  

NinjaFapper: blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.

Yeah I feel bad for you assholes who drive by my house at all hours, or when I'm in town sitting outside trying to enjoy a meal, while you make yourselves a loud a possible.  Truly an American icon.  Dick.  Put a mask on and a muffler on your ride.


Bikers South Park
Youtube 9LlA0_Hv3CQ
 
2020-07-06 6:44:28 PM  
I bought my first Harley in 1977, it is a 1971 FLH, I still ride it. I also bought a new 2004 Road King. So I have been riding for many years, seeing all the yuppies buying Harley's, now the Boomers for the last 20 years. I truly believe that Harley is fading away and no turn around will ever happen. They are too expensive, too many models, and have lost touch with the real riders. They cater to a rich clientele, who think they will be cool riding a Harley, that is fast disappearing.
 
2020-07-06 7:18:27 PM  
MOTO GUZZI >>>>>>>>>>> h-d.

Too farking loud. I wish I had the balls to blow an air horn 2" from the ear of a harley asshole while he or she was trying to have a nice quiet beer in the shiathole bar. Over and over again.
 
2020-07-06 7:28:58 PM  
So, Davidson-Harley?

/low-hanging fruit
//like the stock price
///brrrrbrbrbrbrb.
 
2020-07-06 7:47:07 PM  
I was driving in Sturgis today; the rally is just a few weeks away. They're setting up tents. Campgrounds are mowing and setting up tables. Lots of bikes out here already. Not sure I saw a rider under 50 (age or BMI). Who's going to carry on the tradition?
 
2020-07-06 7:52:55 PM  
I would prefer they not only go out of business but that all currently existing models also be crushed, shiatty noisy toys for shiatty noisy people. Extend it to all motorcycles and I'd be in ecstacy.
 
2020-07-06 8:11:50 PM  

blender61: Driedsponge: What they did to Buell is unforgivable.

Agreed.  They would be in so much better place now if they would have just had a spine and fully and truly committed.


Have you seen the Flluid from Fuell? I know it's not a motorcycle, but it's gorgeous.
 
2020-07-06 8:35:04 PM  
Well if he can turn a Harley around and get it to the shop before it dies then that is a plus.
 
2020-07-06 9:32:59 PM  

phedex: blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.

Gibson guitars are also an icon who built a convoluted mess of instruments over the last 20 years and lost the faith of musicians;  Just google the list of failed, insanely expensive, downright ugly instruments they put out that didn't hit.  The last couple years,   They've reduced their model lineup and appear to have turned a quality corner for the better;  but 5 years ago? you'd be insane to throw money at a 3k guitar with a gimmick like "robo tuners".  Or finish imperfections.  or really a single thing on it that isn't perfect.

I know guitars are different, but theres a lot of similarity here too.  Japan and the eastern continents put out some pretty compelling instruments and a lot lower price point.  So that US model is supposed to be your ultimate instrument, the one that will retain more of its value and be made to exacting standards.

The big difference here is you're talking a few hundred dollars for a foreign made guitar, vs a couple thousand for a US model, something that even if you only make 15 bucks an hour, if you really want one you can save up for one.

You get into ten thousand for a very compelling japanese cruiser, vs the tens of thousands for a comparable harley... well they have a big hill to climb.  I think harley could live on as a name brand but as we've all talked about in these threads, their consumer base is falling apart and they have blown so much time on failed gimmicks, some of which that should have succeeded..except they can't attract anyone who isn't harley faithful, or their dealerships treat non-harley guys like garbage, or they're seen as something for our parents or grandparents at this point.

I think they either become a very small boutique manufacturer, or move to 100% overseas production to reduce costs and improve "shareholder value".  It'll be interesting to see what happens.


Japanese guitars aren't cheap, A J-Custom Ibby will run you as much as a custom shop Fender
 
2020-07-06 9:37:16 PM  

edmo: I was driving in Sturgis today; the rally is just a few weeks away. They're setting up tents. Campgrounds are mowing and setting up tables. Lots of bikes out here already. Not sure I saw a rider under 50 (age or BMI). Who's going to carry on the tradition?


Johnny Blaze?
 
2020-07-06 9:45:32 PM  
Harley's biggest competitor is used Harleys.  Market's been saturated for years; not a convincing case to be made to buy new when so many cheaper used ones are out there.


What I'd suggest is to copy GM's business model;  Harley becomes a finance company that builds occasional custom bikes to order but mostly sells  and services motorcycle loans that are as cheap as a Netflix subscription. You basically lease the bike and make micro-payments for as long as you want to ride it. You could even treat the bike as a rental and drive it one-way on a cross-country run, then walk away from it. Someone else will pick it up. Bike as service, not product.  Got a bike you want to sell, Harley will buy it up and put it into circulation or smelt it, whatever suits them better.
 
2020-07-06 9:54:50 PM  

Any Pie Left: Harley's biggest competitor is used Harleys.  Market's been saturated for years; not a convincing case to be made to buy new when so many cheaper used ones are out there.


What I'd suggest is to copy GM's business model;  Harley becomes a finance company that builds occasional custom bikes to order but mostly sells  and services motorcycle loans that are as cheap as a Netflix subscription. You basically lease the bike and make micro-payments for as long as you want to ride it. You could even treat the bike as a rental and drive it one-way on a cross-country run, then walk away from it. Someone else will pick it up. Bike as service, not product.  Got a bike you want to sell, Harley will buy it up and put it into circulation or smelt it, whatever suits them better.


They already have a financial services division: Harley-Davidson Financial Services.
 
2020-07-06 9:57:58 PM  
HD made its bed a long time ago, and now it has to lay it in.

It got tariff protections on large bikes, and instead of using that market to fix their image and produce a bike range suitable for new and old riders they doubled down on the biker thug and road hogs.

Harley Davidson: Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's price
 
2020-07-06 10:11:22 PM  
"They already have a financial services division"


Sure but I'd guess it's set up to sell a single bike on a conventional loan, where you own the bike once it is all paid off.  I'm talking about lease/rental payments that are way lower, for a bike you never end up "owning", merely trading in for a newer one.  Ford and GM are all over this, I think it's the future, especially once self-drive robot cars are a thing.
 
2020-07-06 10:19:20 PM  

Squid_for_Brains: Sure will miss those guys. Leather vests. No shirt. Flip flops. Revving the shiat out of their fuel-injected bikes at every stop light. Glaring at you and taking off as fast as possible at the green, even though you're in the turn lane and going in a completely different direction...


It's strange that they had more respect when they were ridden by those on the lowest rung of the ladder who cobbled together their own machines in order to go on runs and act deplorably.  I mean, jeez, at least those guys were living the life.  Not some fat retired cop with Trumpy Bear strapped onto the b*tch seat of a full-dress garbage wagon.
 
2020-07-06 11:43:42 PM  

Billy Liar: Not some fat retired cop with Trumpy Bear strapped onto the b*tch seat of a full-dress garbage wagon.


Pretty sure I saw that exact guy pull up to a small Knights of Columbus gathering (not a fan, did it for an in-law, long story) last weekend. No helmet, huge bike with touring storage, miniature Trump, US and Gadsen flags hanging off the back, and a colossal cigar between his bared teeth, Hannibal-style. Ultimate boomer tuff dad just cruisin' around the neighborhood looking to tell off some entitled Gen Z kids.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 12:39:25 AM  

NinjaFapper: blender61: Hd is an American icon. Icons by definition don't change.

America is/was a world icon that hasn't changed. Now look at where we are.

If, knowing nothing about motorcycles and the various cultures within the motorcycle world, would you invest in HD?
I sure wouldn't, and stock in HD has made me a lot of money over the years.

If you want to invest in the future of motorcycling, wait and buy Zero as an IPO  if and when it goes public.
Zero is the Tesla of motorcycles without the crazy Musk.

I've been on two wheels for over 50 years.

Yeah I feel bad for you assholes who drive by my house at all hours, or when I'm in town sitting outside trying to enjoy a meal, while you make yourselves a loud a possible.  Truly an American icon.  Dick.  Put a mask on and a muffler on your ride.


those  lives aren't going to save themselves
 
2020-07-07 6:05:23 AM  
I've only ever known Harley Davidson's to be owned by one type of person.
Middle aged, Mid Life Crisis, White Guys from Suburbia.

NSFW - Language

South Park Bikers
Youtube ipDmsxQVxIM
 
2020-07-07 6:39:32 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-07 8:06:43 AM  

edmo: I was driving in Sturgis today; the rally is just a few weeks away. They're setting up tents. Campgrounds are mowing and setting up tables. Lots of bikes out here already. Not sure I saw a rider under 50 (age or BMI). Who's going to carry on the tradition?


Maybe they'll all get Covid and keel over, then we can have some peace and quiet.
 
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