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(The New York Times)   Didn't we know this?   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Infectious disease, Public health, Infection, AIDS, Epidemiology, World Health Organization, Dr. Benedetta Allegranzi, airborne transmission  
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2599 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Jul 2020 at 4:42 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-07-05 12:06:08 PM  
Yes. This is pretty much an argument over what constitutes 'airborne transmission,' and the WHO being incredibly conservative in the language they use.

I've been trying to find a copy of the letter and signatories with no luck. It is worth noting that most signatories that have been interviewed by various media outlets are not experts in this field, some have tangential expertise that would be helpful in understanding what is going on, and then there is a synthetic chemist.
 
2020-07-05 12:25:34 PM  
If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldnt we expect masking to be less effective?
 
2020-07-05 1:45:41 PM  

weddingsinger: If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldn't we expect masking to be less effective?


Yes.
 
2020-07-05 2:48:44 PM  
Some scientists are warning that airborne transmission of the coronavirus in indoor settings has been underappreciated.

It's looking more and more like the "airborne" part of that statement may be less of a factor than the "indoor" part.  As yet another example, the local case spike has been contact-traced not to the BLM protests but to students throwing graduation/end-of-year parties.
 
2020-07-05 3:33:29 PM  
Depends on your definition of "know".

"To how many standard deviations are we talking about when we say we reject the null hypothesis that COVID-19 is [yadda yadda some clear, disprovable scientific statement about the virus not being an airborne threat yadda]" is the sticking point, I'm gonna guess. Since the bastards at NYT are still blocking me despite me being incognito and having cleared cookies, dammit, I'm just gonna have to guess.
 
2020-07-05 3:34:33 PM  
"Air" is a liberal hoax
 
2020-07-05 4:44:18 PM  

GardenWeasel: weddingsinger: If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldn't we expect masking to be less effective?

Yes.


Nothing we can do. Open 'er up.
 
2020-07-05 5:03:22 PM  

edmo: GardenWeasel: weddingsinger: If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldn't we expect masking to be less effective?

Yes.

Nothing we can do. Open 'er up.


There is plenty we can do, and # 1 is NOT opening up.
 
2020-07-05 5:04:41 PM  
What we know is what we learn.

Apparently some folk still ain't learned is what ought to be taught.
 
2020-07-05 5:24:44 PM  

gameshowhost: Depends on your definition of "know".

"To how many standard deviations are we talking about when we say we reject the null hypothesis that COVID-19 is [yadda yadda some clear, disprovable scientific statement about the virus not being an airborne threat yadda]" is the sticking point, I'm gonna guess. Since the bastards at NYT are still blocking me despite me being incognito and having cleared cookies, dammit, I'm just gonna have to guess.


https://outline.com/a7maB9
 
2020-07-05 5:45:33 PM  
Didn't the study of the transmission in a call center and gym in Korea kind of disprove the idea that it lingers for long periods of time on small droplets?
 
2020-07-05 5:47:54 PM  

emtwo: gameshowhost: Depends on your definition of "know".

"To how many standard deviations are we talking about when we say we reject the null hypothesis that COVID-19 is [yadda yadda some clear, disprovable scientific statement about the virus not being an airborne threat yadda]" is the sticking point, I'm gonna guess. Since the bastards at NYT are still blocking me despite me being incognito and having cleared cookies, dammit, I'm just gonna have to guess.

https://outline.com/a7maB9


TY - I forgot about that convenient site.
 
2020-07-05 5:55:23 PM  
*shiat That's Really Easy But Americans Somehow Can't Abide By*

"We have conflicting evidence so let's side with precaution for a little while."


GHHHHAAAAEHHGGGEEERRRRRRFJFUIEFGBGBN M'FERDUM
 
2020-07-05 6:11:04 PM  

emtwo: n we say we reject the null hypothesis that COVID-19 is [yadda yadda some clear, disprovable scientific statement about the vi


I really wish the admins would knock it off with the paywall links. I try and downvote them as soon as they hit the queue, but they keep getting greenlit.
 
2020-07-05 6:27:43 PM  
Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.
 
2020-07-05 6:51:12 PM  

Bootysama: Didn't the study of the transmission in a call center and gym in Korea kind of disprove the idea that it lingers for long periods of time on small droplets?


Never take the word of just one study, especially on a novel virus.
It is not yet proven but seems like applies to a lot of what we've heard or read so far.
 
2020-07-05 6:52:14 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.


Well that settles it. Go on OANN and spread the good word.
 
2020-07-05 6:58:37 PM  
Last I heard from President Trump, there would only be a few cases and it would just disappear.  Then, he went golfing and hasn't returned to President ing since.
 
2020-07-05 7:13:33 PM  
We need to shut down all non essential activities.  And shut down all non essential people.  Completely.  And permanently.  A non essential person uses carbon resources the world can't spare.  Non essential activities do the same.

If we don't have the will and fortitude to do the hard things and stop the virus, and sequester the carbon in the non essentials, we will fail.  Sooner than later.  There will be tears, but the non mask wearing white non essential Karens did this.  Make them the first blood sacrifices to the corona.
 
2020-07-05 7:14:12 PM  

emtwo: gameshowhost: Depends on your definition of "know".

"To how many standard deviations are we talking about when we say we reject the null hypothesis that COVID-19 is [yadda yadda some clear, disprovable scientific statement about the virus not being an airborne threat yadda]" is the sticking point, I'm gonna guess. Since the bastards at NYT are still blocking me despite me being incognito and having cleared cookies, dammit, I'm just gonna have to guess.

https://outline.com/a7maB9


Brilliant site, thanks! Damn NYT
 
2020-07-05 7:38:54 PM  
Now that China bankrolls the WHO; they're only mission is to go get millions of Non-Chinese killed. Sowing mistrust of masks seems like a great way to go about it.
 
2020-07-05 7:45:31 PM  
We don't know how effective masks are, and we probably never will.

You can't do a double-blind study; it's obvious who is the control group.  You can't ethically put a bunch of people next to infected people to see what happens.  There are way too many confounding factors for a retrospective study to be meaningful.

You can measure the mask, and you can measure the virus, but that's a far cry from measuring effectiveness.

Still, it might work, so just buck up and wear the mask.  Also, don't trust what random people on the internet tell you.
 
2020-07-05 8:11:51 PM  

Gooch: Now that China bankrolls the WHO; they're only mission is to go get millions of Non-Chinese killed. Sowing mistrust of masks seems like a great way to go about it.


This is what Americans actually believe.

/132,552
 
2020-07-05 8:21:29 PM  

Bajtaur: Yes. This is pretty much an argument over what constitutes 'airborne transmission,' and the WHO being incredibly conservative in the language they use.


Agree.
 
2020-07-05 9:07:15 PM  

GardenWeasel: edmo: GardenWeasel: weddingsinger: If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldn't we expect masking to be less effective?

Yes.

Nothing we can do. Open 'er up.

There is plenty we can do, and # 1 is NOT opening up.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-05 9:38:22 PM  

Gooch: Now that China bankrolls the WHO; they're only mission is to go get millions of Non-Chinese killed. Sowing mistrust of masks seems like a great way to go about it.


I thought Trump was a stooge for the Russians, not the Chinese.

/por que no los dos?
 
2020-07-05 10:14:16 PM  

MugzyBrown: GardenWeasel: edmo: GardenWeasel: weddingsinger: If it were true airborne transmission (like Measles) and not just droplet (carried by moisture in our breath) wouldn't we expect masking to be less effective?

Yes.

Nothing we can do. Open 'er up.

There is plenty we can do, and # 1 is NOT opening up.

[Fark user image 425x239]


It would be lovely to think so.
 
2020-07-05 10:49:44 PM  

Notabunny: "Air" is a liberal hoax


I don't believe in oxygen. I think it's a racket by big scuba.
 
2020-07-05 10:52:26 PM  
This is such a dumb argument. Can't they just call it 'aerosol-borne' to acknowledge that it's half-way between droplet-born and airborne diseases, and be done with it?
 
2020-07-05 11:16:11 PM  

Enigmamf: This is such a dumb argument. Can't they just call it 'aerosol-borne' to acknowledge that it's half-way between droplet-born and airborne diseases, and be done with it?


The Borne Identity: Crisis
 
2020-07-05 11:50:58 PM  

Enigmamf: This is such a dumb argument. Can't they just call it 'aerosol-borne' to acknowledge that it's half-way between droplet-born and airborne diseases, and be done with it?


airborne diseases are aerosol-borne
 
2020-07-06 12:13:43 AM  

New Farkin User Name: Enigmamf: This is such a dumb argument. Can't they just call it 'aerosol-borne' to acknowledge that it's half-way between droplet-born and airborne diseases, and be done with it?

airborne diseases are aerosol-borne


Measles (R0 ~12-18) would like a word regarding truly airborne viruses.
 
2020-07-06 8:42:14 AM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.


What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".
 
2020-07-06 9:55:58 AM  

meanmutton: fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.

What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".


Changing your position based on evidence is a sign of weakness.
 
2020-07-06 2:41:34 PM  

Moopy Mac: meanmutton: fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.

What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".

Changing your position based on evidence is a sign of weakness.


When you mandate a position that can change based on evidence and censor those who use evidence to disagree with your position,

IT'S A SIGN OF AUTHORITARIANISM.
 
2020-07-06 8:41:13 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: Moopy Mac: meanmutton: fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.

What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".

Changing your position based on evidence is a sign of weakness.

When you mandate a position that can change based on evidence and censor refute those who use outdated or falsified evidence to disagree with your position,

IT'S A SIGN OF AUTHORITARIANISM.


No, it's not.  Grow the f*ck up.
 
2020-07-07 12:55:17 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: fark'emfeed'emfish: Moopy Mac: meanmutton: fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.

What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".

Changing your position based on evidence is a sign of weakness.

When you mandate a position that can change based on evidence and censor refute those who use outdated or falsified evidence to disagree with your position,

IT'S A SIGN OF AUTHORITARIANISM.

No, it's not.  Grow the f*ck up.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Now what?
 
2020-07-07 1:49:43 AM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: common sense is an oxymoron: fark'emfeed'emfish: Moopy Mac: meanmutton: fark'emfeed'emfish: Nope. These assholes are making it up as they go along.

What an odd way to say "changing their opinion as they learn".

Changing your position based on evidence is a sign of weakness.

When you mandate a position that can change based on evidence and censor refute those who use outdated or falsified evidence to disagree with your position,

IT'S A SIGN OF AUTHORITARIANISM.

No, it's not.  Grow the f*ck up.

[Fark user image 425x281]

Now what?


Still not authoritarianism, and rather juvenile of you to think otherwise.
 
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