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(YouTube)   A historic occasion, not so much a good one mind you. Lincoln Project ad bites can be nasty   (youtube.com) divider line
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5448 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jul 2020 at 2:53 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-05 3:25:57 PM  

OceanVortex: Utter Genius: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

Not quite, the further goal of the Lincoln Project is to slide the Dems rightwards, functionally transforming them into "Republicans with Manners". You might beat Trump in November, but is it really worth it if your party sells its soul to do so?

You might be disingenuous, but I'll take you at face value here and assume this is an honest sentiment you are expressing.

How is that possibly the right thing to say?  For 5 years now, we Democrats have been jumping up and down shouting "Why won't these so-called 'Constitution Loving Republicans' stand up to Trump?"  well, they finally do and now we are complaining about it?


Because the reason for their action is specious.  If they really were that concerned about Trump's actions as POTUS, one would think their scrappy little operation would have been putting out ads for years.
 
2020-07-05 3:26:10 PM  

stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.


This regime decided to start a trade war with China, who makes a *lot* of things that are used to make other things. Durable and non durable goods orders had already been slowing down due to that, and I forget offhand just how many billions we paid out to soybean and other farmers to help them, because they all of a sudden had huge stockpiles of product that had no buyer.
Covid 19 only exacerbated an already bad problem that was unfolding.
 
2020-07-05 3:26:30 PM  

OceanVortex: Utter Genius: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

Not quite, the further goal of the Lincoln Project is to slide the Dems rightwards, functionally transforming them into "Republicans with Manners". You might beat Trump in November, but is it really worth it if your party sells its soul to do so?

You might be disingenuous, but I'll take you at face value here and assume this is an honest sentiment you are expressing.

How is that possibly the right thing to say?  For 5 years now, we Democrats have been jumping up and down shouting "Why won't these so-called 'Constitution Loving Republicans' stand up to Trump?"  well, they finally do and now we are complaining about it?


Yes.  Bolded is the reason why.  Like complaining about Bolton releasing a book instead of testifying, or the parade of fired employees who suddenly have the wherewithal to speak out against the mendacity of Trump.  We're capable of recognizing ulterior motives.
 
2020-07-05 3:27:36 PM  

qorkfiend: Anyone happen to recall why Obama made a public show of supporting it?


I DO!

It's because his Vice President came out in support of gay marriage. Now, who was that guy, and why doesn't he get celebrated as the person who really dragged the Democratic Party out of the ditch on that one?
 
2020-07-05 3:27:48 PM  

qorkfiend: Think about the equivalent on the Dem side for issues, for example: The Dem Party and most of its candidates were largely against Gay Marriage for much of the 2000's. Then in 2012~ish (forgive me I forget the exact date) Obama makes a big announcement openly supporting it, and there was a sudden 10+ point jump in support of Gay Marriage within Dem party base public opinion polling. People saw the signal it was OK to change their minds and they took the chance.

"I am a Republican, I oppose Trump" is a powerful message to those who aren't comfortable with Trump.

Anyone happen to recall why Obama made a public show of supporting it?


Make no mistake, you are right that Obama 'changed his mind' on Gay Marriage because the polls were trending upwards in support.  I'm not claiming no one supported it, he spoke, then everyone did.

I'm saying the polls went from split support to double digit lead very quickly after he spoke up.  He released the tension in the Dem Party and a lot of people changed their minds quickly.

Pew Research poll shows going from 50% support to 65% support after he spoke.  That's a pretty big jump!

Imagine what 15% of the GOP base changing their mind on Trump would mean?
 
2020-07-05 3:27:51 PM  

stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.


Economic slowdown was not inevitable once we had a pandemic. In fact it could have spurred economic activity by increasing the number of employees, in order to provide service while still doing so in a safe and responsible manner.

Increasing drop off opportunities and allowing for call in orders with employees getting the goods and loaders loading into trunks and whatnot could have changed the need to lay off workers and close shops. Working shifts and setting them up to not have direct interaction with other shifts and hiring more janitorial staff in order to ensure cleanliness would have helped too.

Understanding that taking this positions publicly would lower immediate profits but generate public trust and favor for a brand would have been smart.

Combined with an intelligent government response helping with transition costs and keeping those most affected (the service workers) with direct payments could have allowed a smooth transition and kept things chugging with minimal (because there definitely be some) disruption.

But as a country we lack top leadership that could see a different way of doing things other than "give the top 1% more money" and "grift, grift, grift, while ignoring the problem".

So we damaged the people, the economy, and public trust.
 
2020-07-05 3:28:55 PM  
With all my naysaying having been said:

Goddamn are Conservatives better than Progressives at making ads.  It's not even a fair fight.
 
2020-07-05 3:29:40 PM  

Peter Weyland: OceanVortex: Utter Genius: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

Not quite, the further goal of the Lincoln Project is to slide the Dems rightwards, functionally transforming them into "Republicans with Manners". You might beat Trump in November, but is it really worth it if your party sells its soul to do so?

You might be disingenuous, but I'll take you at face value here and assume this is an honest sentiment you are expressing.

How is that possibly the right thing to say?  For 5 years now, we Democrats have been jumping up and down shouting "Why won't these so-called 'Constitution Loving Republicans' stand up to Trump?"  well, they finally do and now we are complaining about it?

Because the reason for their action is specious.  If they really were that concerned about Trump's actions as POTUS, one would think their scrappy little operation would have been putting out ads for years.


What for? Trump's not up for election in those other years.
 
2020-07-05 3:29:52 PM  
It's funny. Anyone else and this would be accepted as at least partially beyond his control. But he's such a grandstanding, arrogant, narcissistic prick, backed by a bunch of assholes, that nobody gives a fark about the benefit of the doubt for him. He shot that concept straight to shiat before he even got elected, and deserves everything he gets.
 
2020-07-05 3:30:23 PM  

OceanVortex: qorkfiend: Think about the equivalent on the Dem side for issues, for example: The Dem Party and most of its candidates were largely against Gay Marriage for much of the 2000's. Then in 2012~ish (forgive me I forget the exact date) Obama makes a big announcement openly supporting it, and there was a sudden 10+ point jump in support of Gay Marriage within Dem party base public opinion polling. People saw the signal it was OK to change their minds and they took the chance.

"I am a Republican, I oppose Trump" is a powerful message to those who aren't comfortable with Trump.

Anyone happen to recall why Obama made a public show of supporting it?

Make no mistake, you are right that Obama 'changed his mind' on Gay Marriage because the polls were trending upwards in support.  I'm not claiming no one supported it, he spoke, then everyone did.

I'm saying the polls went from split support to double digit lead very quickly after he spoke up.  He released the tension in the Dem Party and a lot of people changed their minds quickly.

Pew Research poll shows going from 50% support to 65% support after he spoke.  That's a pretty big jump!

Imagine what 15% of the GOP base changing their mind on Trump would mean?


Right, I wasn't disputing any of that.
 
2020-07-05 3:31:20 PM  

Peter Weyland: Because the reason for their action is specious. If they really were that concerned about Trump's actions as POTUS, one would think their scrappy little operation would have been putting out ads for years.


The people involved HAVE been speaking up for years. Rick Wilson famously coined the phrase "everything Trump touches dies" which was a NYT best seller book.  Joe Walsh tried to primary Trump but the RNC changed the primary rules to block him.  They finally scraped together enough $$$ to start running ads, sure.  I bet they would have liked to have been running ads for 5 years as well, but you go to war with the army you have, as they say.
 
2020-07-05 3:31:42 PM  

psilocyberguy: An historic ..... not A historic.


Only if you're a peasant who drops their Hs.

Nobody says "istoric"
 
2020-07-05 3:31:56 PM  

stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.


To a degree, death, unemployment, and economic hardship are inevitable with a pandemic of this scale . However ALL of those things are worse here in the US by a margin way too big to ignore.

So yes, it's his fault. Damn straight
 
2020-07-05 3:32:22 PM  

stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.


In fairness, other countries shut down, managed their outbreak, and gradually and safely re-opened when they could, implementing shutdowns when new outbreaks occurred. They have had largely compliant populations with masks and distancing. They also had governments that weren't inflaming civil unrest and actively encouraging super spreader events as civic duty of loyal citizens.

My government isn't perfect, and has/is making mistakes, but we aren't going to take down the global economy and world order like Trump has willfully done, and continues to do despite ongoing evidence. Honestly, I joked that he was #TEAMCOVID-19 back in April, but in retrospect, I can't think of something he has done through action or inaction that hasn't made this situation worse, not just for Americans, but for humanity. This crisis really shows that we are all in this together, and isolationism is just an ill-considered strategy.
 
2020-07-05 3:32:59 PM  

OceanVortex: As a Dem, i can't stress enough how impactful it is to have members of the Republican Party talking to other members of the Republican Party in attempt to change minds.  In these highly politicized times, people take signals from party leaders.  Up until now, party leadership in the GOP has been largely saying 'stick with Trump'.  Lincoln project has created a center of gravity for GOP leaders to start to push back in a coordinated way.  It won't replace the need for Biden to talk to independents or the DNC to talk to the Dem base, etc.  But talking to the GOP is one important tool in the tool box.

Think about the equivalent on the Dem side for issues, for example:  The Dem Party and most of its candidates were largely against Gay Marriage for much of the 2000's.  Then in 2012~ish (forgive me I forget the exact date) Obama makes a big announcement openly supporting it, and there was a sudden 10+ point jump in support of Gay Marriage within Dem party base public opinion polling.  People saw the signal it was OK to change their minds and they took the chance.

"I am a Republican, I oppose Trump" is a powerful message to those who aren't comfortable with Trump.


You're not going to get right wingers to go all wholesale with liberal norms and mores at the drop of a hat. The LP knows how to reel in right wingers to their cause better than liberals could ever do.

That commercial about the pro-life solider calling Trump a traitor? A liberal group wouldn't dare hire him for an attack ad, as they'd be too scared about endorsing a pro-life stance and running off liberals.

They will attack Trump being racist based on a cowardly/weak argument versus a cruel/evil one, for example.
 
2020-07-05 3:33:27 PM  

qorkfiend: What for? Trump's not up for election in those other years.


Public sentiment matters throughout the entire term.  When sentiment is low enough and Congresscritters see poll numbers dropping due to their connection with POTUS's, they tend to start doing things to distance themselves from POTUS's policy direction.
 
2020-07-05 3:33:28 PM  

Chromium_One: Shaggy_C: stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.

Yes, there is tons of hypocrisy involved. Politics isn't about being right or even coherent, it's about swaying stupid people to vote for you through appeals to emotion.

These ads aren't made for thinking  people, but that won't stop the "rah rah team" types from eating them up.

I can and do blame a lack of leadership.  A coordinated response would have allowed a shorter shutdown with much better effect.  Instead, we got denial of reality and a patchwork response with mixed results.


I don't agree with you. I think americans are flawed and are too individualistic. I think if Hilary was president you'd be in the same shiat show.
 
2020-07-05 3:33:56 PM  
Man, I never thought when I woke up this morning I'd be spending my afternoon defending republicans on the internet, but I guess that's 2020 for you.

Look, everyone:  Take a breath and realize THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

We want a world in which Republicans wake up and go "Hmmm... Trump IS evil!  I should vote against him!"

As Democrats, we have two options:
1)  Yell "Screw you for not figuring that out sooner, loser!"
or
2) Thanks for acknowledging that, it must have been tough for you to speak up like that.  Now join us as we go save Democracy together!


Which tactic do you think will provide the result you want in November?
 
2020-07-05 3:34:10 PM  

OceanVortex: The people involved HAVE been speaking up for years. Rick Wilson famously coined the phrase "everything Trump touches dies" which was a NYT best seller book. Joe Walsh tried to primary Trump but the RNC changed the primary rules to block him. They finally scraped together enough $$$ to start running ads, sure. I bet they would have liked to have been running ads for 5 years as well, but you go to war with the army you have, as they say.


Yeah but not the Lincoln Project, which is what we're discussing here.
 
2020-07-05 3:34:20 PM  

OceanVortex: Blahbbs: Are we sure that the Lincoln Project isn't just a front to fleece Democrats out of donations? I guess I'd never paid much attention to the pleas for donations at the end until today.

Thus far, they have been more effective at getting in Trump's head, the RNC's head, and Fox News's head than anything any Dem Party ad has done.  By 'in the head' I mean Trump has tweeted about it and said more unpopular things in response to it.  Seems to be the single best investment one could make over the last month, actually.    Heck, Republican Super Pacs have started running ads AGAINST the Lincoln Project... the first time in American history one super pac has ran ads against another.


And it lets Biden stay optimistic and out of the mud as much as possible.
 
2020-07-05 3:35:43 PM  

physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.


You know what? That's fine. I'm all for an America where Republicans and Democrats differ on issues like "should capital gains be taxed as regular income?" (Yes, unless they're from an IPO, by the way. Encourage investment in the future), or "should America repair the infrastructure it has, or invest in ultra-modern forms of transportation for people and goods?"

It's just really hard to have those types of discussions when one side is fixated on "are LGBTQ people actually people?" and "Can we ban all the members of a particular religion from being American?"
 
2020-07-05 3:35:57 PM  

OceanVortex: Peter Weyland: Because the reason for their action is specious. If they really were that concerned about Trump's actions as POTUS, one would think their scrappy little operation would have been putting out ads for years.

The people involved HAVE been speaking up for years. Rick Wilson famously coined the phrase "everything Trump touches dies" which was a NYT best seller book.  Joe Walsh tried to primary Trump but the RNC changed the primary rules to block him.  They finally scraped together enough $$$ to start running ads, sure.  I bet they would have liked to have been running ads for 5 years as well, but you go to war with the army you have, as they say.


Joe Walsh has a hand in this? I can't find any evidence of that.
 
2020-07-05 3:37:16 PM  

qorkfiend: OceanVortex: qorkfiend: Think about the equivalent on the Dem side for issues, for example: The Dem Party and most of its candidates were largely against Gay Marriage for much of the 2000's. Then in 2012~ish (forgive me I forget the exact date) Obama makes a big announcement openly supporting it, and there was a sudden 10+ point jump in support of Gay Marriage within Dem party base public opinion polling. People saw the signal it was OK to change their minds and they took the chance.

"I am a Republican, I oppose Trump" is a powerful message to those who aren't comfortable with Trump.

Anyone happen to recall why Obama made a public show of supporting it?

Make no mistake, you are right that Obama 'changed his mind' on Gay Marriage because the polls were trending upwards in support.  I'm not claiming no one supported it, he spoke, then everyone did.

I'm saying the polls went from split support to double digit lead very quickly after he spoke up.  He released the tension in the Dem Party and a lot of people changed their minds quickly.

Pew Research poll shows going from 50% support to 65% support after he spoke.  That's a pretty big jump!

Imagine what 15% of the GOP base changing their mind on Trump would mean?

Right, I wasn't disputing any of that.


Cool.  [High Five]  :)
 
2020-07-05 3:37:28 PM  

Peter Weyland: qorkfiend: What for? Trump's not up for election in those other years.

Public sentiment matters throughout the entire term.  When sentiment is low enough and Congresscritters see poll numbers dropping due to their connection with POTUS's, they tend to start doing things to distance themselves from POTUS's policy direction.


Yeah, poll numbers around election time.
 
2020-07-05 3:37:50 PM  

nekom: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

One battle at a time.


yeah plus bernie lost you guys
 
2020-07-05 3:38:48 PM  

OceanVortex: qorkfiend: OceanVortex: qorkfiend: Think about the equivalent on the Dem side for issues, for example: The Dem Party and most of its candidates were largely against Gay Marriage for much of the 2000's. Then in 2012~ish (forgive me I forget the exact date) Obama makes a big announcement openly supporting it, and there was a sudden 10+ point jump in support of Gay Marriage within Dem party base public opinion polling. People saw the signal it was OK to change their minds and they took the chance.

"I am a Republican, I oppose Trump" is a powerful message to those who aren't comfortable with Trump.

Anyone happen to recall why Obama made a public show of supporting it?

Make no mistake, you are right that Obama 'changed his mind' on Gay Marriage because the polls were trending upwards in support.  I'm not claiming no one supported it, he spoke, then everyone did.

I'm saying the polls went from split support to double digit lead very quickly after he spoke up.  He released the tension in the Dem Party and a lot of people changed their minds quickly.

Pew Research poll shows going from 50% support to 65% support after he spoke.  That's a pretty big jump!

Imagine what 15% of the GOP base changing their mind on Trump would mean?

Right, I wasn't disputing any of that.

Cool.  [High Five]  :)


I was reminding people that the man who spurred Obama's open support was none other than Joe Biden.
 
2020-07-05 3:40:30 PM  

mrshowrules: HallsOfMandos: A Lincoln Project ad once bit my sister.

bitter?


Bitter? We only recently met!
 
2020-07-05 3:41:23 PM  

JAGChem82: You're not going to get right wingers to go all wholesale with liberal norms and mores at the drop of a hat. The LP knows how to reel in right wingers to their cause better than liberals could ever do.

That commercial about the pro-life solider calling Trump a traitor? A liberal group wouldn't dare hire him for an attack ad, as they'd be too scared about endorsing a pro-life stance and running off liberals.

They will attack Trump being racist based on a cowardly/weak argument versus a cruel/evil one, for example.


BINGO!   In a time of culture ware, having those 'in your tribe' being able to speak the language to you and with you is super important.

This is why those KKK flyers pretending to be BLM flyers at the protests calling for race wars are instantly and laughably viewed as false by all Democrats.  These KKK members don't understand how Democrats speak to eachother so can't mimic it.
 
2020-07-05 3:42:59 PM  

Captain Shaky: Germany is also having a pandemic I have heard.

But careful management by the government has kept their unemployment from passing 3.5% even once, so far.

Other developed nations have kept their rates at around half of what ours have been.

And we are looking like we are in much much worse shape than them going forward as well. Because the government is mishandling both the crisis and the economy.


Their economy is projected to shrink by more than 6% this year. The US is shrinking by less, 5.7%. So, from that metric, the US is doing better than them economically despite having much higher infection and death numbers.

Using unemployment is a bad proxy because other countries use "furloughs" instead of unemployment. Both rely on state funding for paying for people who can't work.
 
2020-07-05 3:46:08 PM  

Peter Weyland: OceanVortex: The people involved HAVE been speaking up for years. Rick Wilson famously coined the phrase "everything Trump touches dies" which was a NYT best seller book. Joe Walsh tried to primary Trump but the RNC changed the primary rules to block him. They finally scraped together enough $$$ to start running ads, sure. I bet they would have liked to have been running ads for 5 years as well, but you go to war with the army you have, as they say.

Yeah but not the Lincoln Project, which is what we're discussing here.


The people I named are part of the Lincoln Project.  Rick Wilson is the person writing copy for the ads.

These people who founded it aren't the normal GOP grifters who sucked up to Trump, got cast out, then suddenly switched to be pro-Dem so they could make some cash on TV appearances since the GOP wouldn't take them any more like Scaramoochi, Michael Cohen, etc.    Rick Wilson and the other founders have been 'never trump' since the beginning, even when Trumpism was truly politically unstoppable.

I'm not saying they are saints.  I disagree with nearly every political position they hold.  I look forward to being able to argue against their views some day.

But for today - let's not call them names for agreeing with us, ok?  

DON'T SIGNAL TO OTHER REPUBLICANS THAT THEY WILL BE MOCKED FOR OPPOSING TRUMP.

If you want to win, thank a Republican for changing their mind  and ask them to help change the minds of their friends too.
 
2020-07-05 3:55:20 PM  

physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.


People keep saying this, but they're forgetting something: A Democratic candidate WILL NOT have the amount of baggage that Trump has. Not even close. Trump has a laundry list of faults, flaws, gaffes, missteps, lies, crimes, and failures to draw from. They're hitting him this hard because, let's face it: He's easy prey. He's the worst President this country has ever seen, and he just keeps failing and stumbling and doubling-down on the hate speech and support of egotistical, stupid policies and plans.

A Democrat will have none of that. The Lincoln Project will have to actually work to tear them down.
 
2020-07-05 3:56:14 PM  

Spartapuss: OceanVortex: Peter Weyland: Because the reason for their action is specious. If they really were that concerned about Trump's actions as POTUS, one would think their scrappy little operation would have been putting out ads for years.

The people involved HAVE been speaking up for years. Rick Wilson famously coined the phrase "everything Trump touches dies" which was a NYT best seller book.  Joe Walsh tried to primary Trump but the RNC changed the primary rules to block him.  They finally scraped together enough $$$ to start running ads, sure.  I bet they would have liked to have been running ads for 5 years as well, but you go to war with the army you have, as they say.

Joe Walsh has a hand in this? I can't find any evidence of that.


Check out Joe Walsh's twitter feed.  He is not only anti-Trump, but surprisingly woke on things like race at the moment.  He has actually apologized for supporting "all lives matter" and has chastised other Republicans, including McConnell, for not saying "Black Lives Matter"

I guess - it is people like him that give me hope.  He was a horrible human being as an elected official and head of the Tea Party movement, but having left the Fox News media bubble and looking around at what the real world looks like, he has been reflecting over the past few months how he has been wrong on a lot of important issues (especially race).   I'm sure I'd disagree with him on a lot of issues, but even acknowledging systemic racism exists and calling for change by someone like him is a huge psychological step.


Again, before you jump to arms and demand political purity from Joe Walsh and other Republicans for changing their minds... take a second and remember we want to make a welcoming home for them out here in the real world.  We want to encourage others to join and realize it is ok.

The time to ask tough questions like "why did it take so long?  How do we fix it so it doesn't happen again?"... those questions can come after November.  Let's let them come out into the sunlight and blink their eyes a bit before we all start shouting at them or we risk driving them back into the darkness for safety.
 
2020-07-05 3:57:40 PM  

Peter Weyland: qorkfiend: What for? Trump's not up for election in those other years.

Public sentiment matters throughout the entire term.  When sentiment is low enough and Congresscritters see poll numbers dropping due to their connection with POTUS's, they tend to start doing things to distance themselves from POTUS's policy direction.


Current events prove this wrong.  Their strategy mimics Trump's: double down on crass lies to appeal to the base even if it hurts polling numbers.
 
2020-07-05 3:57:43 PM  

Nadie_AZ: stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a
It's an election year so the President gets all the blame or praise, depending on what team they play for.


The president gets praise or blame during other years as well.  Typically nobody  pays for ads about it.

Then there's ads like this:


Gettysburg
Youtube u-NNLTcNSxA


It never mentions any politician by name.  Never advocates any political position from less than 150 years ago.  Just quotes a single great American in full context.  If that scores a significant hit on you: just resign.
 
2020-07-05 4:03:59 PM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: LP's video guy is a former Tea Partier: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/0​7/lincoln-project-video-wiz-ben-howe-a​ds-are-driving-trump-insane


Don't you feel special for telling us all that?
 
2020-07-05 4:11:07 PM  

OceanVortex: Again, before you jump to arms and demand political purity from Joe Walsh and other Republicans for changing their minds... take a second and remember we want to make a welcoming home for them out here in the real world.  We want to encourage others to join and realize it is ok.


I recently sent a PM to a friend of mine after she posted something along like lines of, "If you're a Republican, unfriend me and GFY" that once upon a time after she posted something along like lines of, "If you're not a Republican, unfriend me and GFY" that I sent her a message saying that I didn't agree with her, but I would still like to be friends if that was OK.
 
2020-07-05 4:13:50 PM  
 
2020-07-05 4:14:23 PM  
The Democratic Party needs a loyal opposition. In other words, they need a Republican Party that isn't batshiat crazy. As utopian an idea as one-party rule sounds, it's not feasible. Checks and balances are necessary to keep government functioning, and right now, we don't have that. So, yeah, The Lincoln Project is important. I know the expression is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and while I wouldn't go so far as to call the Republican Party my friend, I'd rather someone my ideological opposite I can respect than someone I wish would die in a dumpster fire of rancid diapers and lamb vindaloo.

We need to flush Trump, Trumpism, and all his MAGAt followers down the toilet of history and get back to some semblance of normalcy. If that means working with The Lincoln Project, so be it. They're doing a better job of hammering Trump than the Democrats are right now, so, work with what you've got.
 
2020-07-05 4:15:16 PM  
Going to have to partially defend the orange one by saying covid would likely have resulted in massive job loss under any US president.

Now, he is to blame for downplaying it repeatedly, while failing to prepare, and failing to act to minimize the economic impact and duration of the crisis.  That all can be laid at his feet.
 
2020-07-05 4:19:07 PM  

To Wish Impossible Things: Going to have to partially defend the orange one by saying covid would likely have resulted in massive job loss under any US president.

Now, he is to blame for downplaying it repeatedly, while failing to prepare, and failing to act to minimize the economic impact and duration of the crisis.  That all can be laid at his feet.


Well, yeah, this was going to happen if Hillary Clinton won or if Bernie had gotten the nomination and HE won. As you pointed out, however, the difference is how either Clinton or Sanders would have handled it compared to how Bunker Biatch has handled it. I don't think it's physically possible for Trump to have handled it worse aside from maybe, I don't know, publicly saying there are too many people living in this country and we need to cull the herd.
 
2020-07-05 4:22:18 PM  

stilted: Playing Devil's Advocate here...I'm anti-Trump, will be voting for Biden in November...not a Russian troll...*not* saying BSAB...

Isn't there a touch of hypocrisy in laying unemployment solely at Trump's feet, when many who oppose Trump are saying businesses have/are opening too fast and in Covid hotspots the government should be shutting everything down?

Unemployment is an inherent by-product of fighting Coronavirus. You can't slow the spread in areas of outbreak without shutting down businesses, resulting in unemployment.

That being said, Trump and the rest of the GOP has done a horrible job of supporting the lower and middle class workers who have been impacted by Coronavirus restrictions. *That* is where the opposition attacks should be focused...the GOP's making sure the corporations are protected, while leaving the average worker swaying in the wind.


With a national mask requirement a LOT of businesses could reopen safely...but Trump won't do that because reasons.
 
2020-07-05 4:22:23 PM  

Coco LaFemme: To Wish Impossible Things: Going to have to partially defend the orange one by saying covid would likely have resulted in massive job loss under any US president.

Now, he is to blame for downplaying it repeatedly, while failing to prepare, and failing to act to minimize the economic impact and duration of the crisis.  That all can be laid at his feet.

Well, yeah, this was going to happen if Hillary Clinton won or if Bernie had gotten the nomination and HE won. As you pointed out, however, the difference is how either Clinton or Sanders would have handled it compared to how Bunker Biatch has handled it. I don't think it's physically possible for Trump to have handled it worse aside from maybe, I don't know, publicly saying there are too many people living in this country and we need to cull the herd.


The White House response is "Learn to live with it."  Or not, as it may be you who is culled.
 
2020-07-05 4:23:12 PM  

HallsOfMandos: A Lincoln Project ad once bit my sister.


They ate me baby!
 
2020-07-05 4:23:43 PM  

physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.


Yep. I'm seeing this too. Am I the only one who remembers the story about the Scorpion and the Frog?
 
2020-07-05 4:24:41 PM  

Tarl3k: With a national mask requirement a LOT of businesses could reopen safely...but Trump won't do that because reasons.


The "reasons" being the constitution. The federal government can only recommend masks, but not make them mandatory.
 
2020-07-05 4:26:40 PM  

physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.


That's fine by me. Getting rid of Trump is progress.  Once the cult of personality is out of the way, a legitimate debate can happen.  If the Democrats don't let themselves get distracted by pie-in-the-sky fantasies, and work on making incremental progress, the "debate" is a formality.
 
2020-07-05 4:26:55 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

Yep. I'm seeing this too. Am I the only one who remembers the story about the Scorpion and the Frog?


The analogy makes sense if in the story the frog gets the scorpion to kill a snake who's imminently trying to eat him, and then hops away because he knows the scorpions sucks too. They aren't trying to hide they're Republican, and they're helping a hell of a lot more than the Intercept-y faction of liberals. So they're cool....for now
 
2020-07-05 4:28:15 PM  

Shaggy_C: Tarl3k: With a national mask requirement a LOT of businesses could reopen safely...but Trump won't do that because reasons.

The "reasons" being the constitution. The federal government can only recommend masks, but not make them mandatory.


If what you're suggesting is true then we could walk around with our dicks hanging out because pants and underwear would just be a suggestion
 
2020-07-05 4:29:07 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

If Trump loses in November, the GOP will be too busy in-fighting for awhile to focus on the Dems.


The GOP went from Nixon resigning in 74, getting BTFO in 76, only to come back with Reagan in 1980.

A span of less than six years.

They're like the Covid virus. It keeps coming back to try to kill you, and the best hope you have is your body may have immunity for only a couple of months between infections.
 
2020-07-05 4:32:06 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: physt: These ads are great and all but, remember, there are Republicans behind this. They are coming for Trump now but they'll be all over Dems once he's out of the way.

Yep. I'm seeing this too. Am I the only one who remembers the story about the Scorpion and the Frog?


If you trust them further than the shared goal of getting Trump out of office that's your problem
 
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