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(Politico)   No one knows how the hell to safely reopen schools   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Murica, High school, Education, School, Teacher, Fairfax County's teachers unions, school districts, new school year, public spaces  
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3959 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 04 Jul 2020 at 6:46 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-04 9:54:03 PM  

dbaggins: Jerseysteve22: I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.


Sort of starting to understand how we keep having lowering education quality....


Says the guy who can't quote a post properly
 
2020-07-04 9:58:23 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?


This has hit my PLCs on Facebook today

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-departme​n​t-of-education-refuse-to-return-to-cam​pus-until-counties-report-no-new-cases​-for-14-days?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_​23175660_en-US%3A0&recruiter=25958176&​utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=c​opylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
 
2020-07-04 9:58:54 PM  
Getting schools up and running should be the priority, not reopening bars. If it can be done safely it will require extensive planning, massive cooperation, and large sums of money; all things sadly lacking in many communities.
 
2020-07-04 10:00:09 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?


Unfortunately they need to find a new line of work. That's the reality.
 
2020-07-04 10:02:38 PM  
Wait until you have several dead teachers and students per school. What's it going to do to their self esteem when they bring the virus home and kill nana and pop pop?
 
2020-07-04 10:08:03 PM  

powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.


I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.
 
2020-07-04 10:08:35 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.


Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.
 
2020-07-04 10:14:41 PM  

paygun: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.

Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.


The best plan. Bigly successful. A beautiful plan where parts of the plan are so good. The Fake News Media and Sleepy Joe have no plan.
 
2020-07-04 10:15:51 PM  

wademh: There's some growing data from contact tracing studies that show that younger children both tend not to get infected as easily, and that those who do turn positive for the virus are about 4 fold less likely to transmit the virus to adults. This is still what would have to be called preliminary but it contrasts with our instincts about how schools spread the flu and colds.

Some places are bound and determined to open schools. What we should do is follow those "experiments" closely. Every kid gets tested twice a week. Not individual tests, do the simpler oral saliva swab, pool 10 students. Turn over results in 24 hours. If you get a positive on a pool for a class, individually test everyone in that class, their siblings, and the teacher. Pull the positive kid for two weeks. If you get a second positive in the class during that two weeks, the whole class goes home on quarantine.

Have a plan for what it will take to shut down the whole school. Publish it. If you trigger the condition, follow through and close the school.

Different school districts will have their variations. Keep track of what works, what fails. Avoid repeating failures.


MIS-C is rare though there are/were probably hundreds of cases through the USA.  I'm estimating based on the numbers I already have from the past few weeks.

The kids who get it? Mostly, previously healthy black kids. It's easy to treat if you catch it in time but nobody knows the long-term health consequences of having, you know, inflamed hearts and aneurysms and stuff.

If hundreds of white kids were being laid out with MIS-C you'd see a panic.
 
2020-07-04 10:20:35 PM  
If you want a serious answer on how to do this, you'd need to go back in time and stop gutting funding to schools that dared teach black and hispanic children how to read.
 
2020-07-04 10:28:06 PM  

Mukster: I've done online instruction for a community college for a decade or so. After having years of in class - in person teaching, I personally prefer the one in one face to face for a lot of reasons. But students seem to love to platform so tech it is for our school.
My wife teaches fifth graders (9-10 year olds) and misses all the kiddos, but they're germ ridden little slobs with no sense of personal space. Keeping the k-12 "safe" to the best of our abilities as a society will keep all of their caregivers and elders in the community healthy too.

We're the US of A - we can figure this out even if it costs money rather than lives.


Costs money rather than lives?

What farking country are YOU living in dude?
 
2020-07-04 10:36:43 PM  

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Plenty of bad ones, though.

I'm sure this administration will pick some of them from the long and growing list.


never doubt any administration's ability to make a bad decision.
 
2020-07-04 10:42:35 PM  
Crtl-F "More guns"

Hmph, surprised that solution hasn't come up yet.
 
2020-07-04 10:44:19 PM  

dbaggins: Jerseysteve22: I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.


Sort of starting to understand how we keep having lowering education quality....


you ain't kidding.  And yet I am still pining for moving to the private sector to double up again.

We are offering people with Ph.D's in biology $50k and wondering why no one with 5-7 years experience will take the job...all the while if a PhD candidate applied that was not a US citizen (H1B and the like) we would have to offer them $10-15k more because the Labor Department will state that $50k is not market value.

/smh
 
2020-07-04 10:45:28 PM  
The people who are making proposals about social distancing for students, everyone wearing a mask all the time, eating lunch in a classroom and all the other ways to keep kids safe have never spent a week in a classroom with a bunch of 7th graders.

In the best of time the flu and other disorders are usually spread around by the middle of October. Now, with the virus, I'd give a school about 2 weeks before a kid or adult  tests positive and everybody will have to go into quarantine.

There is no safe way to open schools until there is a vaccine or a treatment.
 
2020-07-04 10:48:20 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: paygun: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.

Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.

The best plan. Bigly successful. A beautiful plan where parts of the plan are so good. The Fake News Media and Sleepy Joe have no plan.


You forgot the part where he'd say "The schools are going to do great things".
 
2020-07-04 11:08:45 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.

I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.


My district is operating under the assumption that we will be opening and closing often. Each child in grades 3-8 (we don't have a high school) is getting chromebooks (this required my district to buy one extra grade's worth of books as they have been buying chrome books for a few years now), and every child in grades k-2 is getting an iPad. The devices need to go home every night in case school is suddenly closed and we transition into online learning.

New York schools typically open after Labor Day. Each district has to submit their plans for reopening to the state by July 15.

I'm hoping New York's numbers stay where they are and anything we do is just precautionary and not necessary. It's a pipe dream I can hold onto for a little while longer.
 
2020-07-04 11:14:30 PM  
I know of a way

It is a good way as far as risk/benefits go

But it is not a nice way

First we find the school that has, on average, the most expendable kids in America. Send that  school half a billion dollars for classroom and teacher upgrades since they will be the lab rats and will earn these nice things

Then we send the kids back to that school using our best practices

Then wait and watch

When things eventually turn into hellish death for the unlucky ones we report it to news agencies

Then, after the accurate news agencies report on the tragic outcomes, we go to the threads of Fark and implement the policies of the motherfarkers here who always have 20/20 hindsight and open up the rest of the schools
 
2020-07-04 11:31:26 PM  

EJ25T: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.


https://www.khanacademy.org/

Everything from elementary to high school ap.  Plus, daily and weekly email updates on what they have and have not been doing.  My 15yo has been spending a lot of time in psychology.  I've had to remind her of her math.  My oldest has spent a lot of time with coding.  My youngest is caught up in anatomy.

Local school is opening August 11.

As for socialization, who in their right mind is hanging out at the local playground or basketball court during a pandemic?

But the problem with accessibility to computers and internet for many families is an issue that needs to be addressed.  As well as who stays home with them.  Plus, while public school is supposedly free, there are fees that have to be paid each year in some places to cover costs and with much of the population out of work, even those fees are cost prohibitive.  And, if the school has uniforms, that is an added cost.

But for those that are wondering about homeschooling, the above link is a good one and ask around from there.  Plus, it is free.
 
2020-07-04 11:32:20 PM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?

Unfortunately they need to find a new line of work. That's the reality.


As a veteran teacher with over 20 years of classroom experience, I am absolutely petrified. I finished my final cancer treatments a few weeks before the lock down. It will take a long time for my immune system to really recover from that, but I cannot stay home in September. My sick days were used up. My family's health insurance is provided through my job. Plus, I've spent all these years paying into the teachers' retirement system, not SS. I'm too young to retire anyway. I really, honestly love teaching my students. It is my calling, but I am just going to have to hope that somehow my family, my students, my colleagues, and I will be ok.
 
2020-07-04 11:33:26 PM  

Jeteupthemiddle: HideAndGoFarkYourself: powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.

I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.

My district is operating under the assumption that we will be opening and closing often. Each child in grades 3-8 (we don't have a high school) is getting chromebooks (this required my district to buy one extra grade's worth of books as they have been buying chrome books for a few years now), and every child in grades k-2 is getting an iPad. The devices need to go home every night in case school is suddenly closed and we transition into online learning.

New York schools typically open after Labor Day. Each district has to submit the ...


Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?
 
2020-07-04 11:39:55 PM  

ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????


WTF?
 
2020-07-04 11:43:59 PM  

RussianPotato: Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?


Abstinence Education?

Just Say No?

/dammit who typed a question mark in to the teleprompter!
 
2020-07-04 11:53:59 PM  
I really hope they reopen. Only because my kid has autism and needs the classes in person. He can't sit still and focus on a computer.
 
2020-07-05 12:15:33 AM  
One of my co-workers temporarily left the job to home school her nine grandchildren. I see one of my 50 to 60 year old neighbors with her five grandchildren every day. Before the pandemic, I didn't even know she had grandchildren. Women like these have set up classrooms in their homes, purchased text books, and are providing structured lessons. They are also providing the kids unprecedented (for the kids) levels of real life experiences with walks, creek adventures, cooking, and more.

Most American families cannot  have Granny home school the kids and cousins. Maybe Granny lives 500 miles away. Maybe Granny has to work too many hours at her job/s to do it.

Maybe for every class of 30 students, the government should pay 3 or 4 people to teach no more than 9 or 10 of these kids in their homes with the actual teacher acting to pass along curriculum, supervise, train these new assistant teachers, and serve as a resource. It would be crazy expensive to quadruple the staff budget for every school in America, but hopefully it would be very, very temporary.
 
2020-07-05 12:35:56 AM  

Ambitwistor: ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????

[Fark user image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


Do you have the original of that?
 
2020-07-05 12:37:23 AM  
In the San Francisco bay area, 40 school principals held a meeting to discuss how to reopen schools.

Soon after, one of them tested positive for covid, and now all 40 are under self quarantine.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local​/​south-bay/more-than-40-school-principa​ls-quarantined-after-covid-19-exposure​/2319031/
 
2020-07-05 12:44:50 AM  

ChrisDe: You might be able to get high schoolers to social distance, keep their hands to themselves, wear a mask all day, and follow all the other rules. That ain't gonna happen with 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 year-olds.


You're right that the younger kids won't follow the rules.  I've no idea why you think that high school kids are going to follow the rules.
 
2020-07-05 1:02:41 AM  

in flagrante: AllCatsAreBeautiful: the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

When a child brings home covid-19 and kills off the immune comprised parents; we're going to see a lot less children being sent to school by nervous parents. Those are all great solutions but will never happen because it's America.
/developing coun ...


Well, in a plague ridden society like the US is now, of course.  In a country like Canada or SK that take it seriously?  Not nearly as likely.
 
2020-07-05 1:28:48 AM  

RussianPotato: Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?


Fortnite...

On a related note, how far in Alaska do you have to go to totally avoid Civilization?
//asking for a friend
 
2020-07-05 1:50:49 AM  

namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.


Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.
 
2020-07-05 2:07:32 AM  
I'm a teacher in a poor region of a poor state in the South.

School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.
 
2020-07-05 2:53:36 AM  
Boarding school.  Fill the gym up with cots, and the little brats don't bring the covid home to kill grandma.  They come home when the vaccine is available. 

As someone who is locked down with children, I don't see any other way.
 
2020-07-05 2:56:34 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine.


We don't have that much time.

The expected efficacy of first-generation vaccines has been grossly over-sold to the general public. The FDA's criteria for approving a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is even 50% effectiveness will be acceptable for the purposes of approval. A 50% reduction in cases isn't good enough to do close contact activities, including school, safely without social and physical controls to keep people apart. These types of controls are probably not viable in a K-12 education environment.

We'll be waiting for subsequent generations of vaccines until it will be possible to return to the way things were, and that could take decades. We can't leave 20 years worth of kids with no education and expect society to survive, but we also might not be able to educate them without school-based disease factories killing everyone.

I've said from the beginning that this virus could end civilization and nothing has yet happened to prove this fear unfounded.
 
2020-07-05 2:56:48 AM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: I posted this in another thread the other day. The real problem is access to resources for low-income students and tier-1 classrooms.

Not every home in America can afford a laptop or chromebook for their 2-3 kids and a broadband internet connection. Don't even get me started on special education where the parent/guardian/sibling would need to babysit the child in front of the chromebook or laptop.


Fortunately, a lot of the online schools will provide laptops, webcams & headsets (for live Zoom-type meetings with teachers and classmates), printers, and some way to get low cost internet at home. I'm not sending my son back to in-person schooling this fall so I've been researching a lot of the online options and pretty much all of them provide that equipment at no cost to the student. I understand it won't work for some people who can't afford to stay home and monitor their kids while they're doing their work online but for a lot of people, it's definitely going to be the best way to go if you want to keep your child home and provide them as comprehensive an online education as possible.

I don't like the idea of my son being a guinea pig for this experiment and we can definitely do just as well, if not better, doing online schooling around OUR schedule (as the pandemic has kinds turned us all into serious night owls). And we are already supplementing his social life with visits with my other friend's kids who have also been following mask and social distancing guidelines (since their kids are all high risk) so we can just keep them doing projects and extracurriculars together. Plus we've got our whole chicken breeding project going 🐣 and the kids are all loving coming over and being part of that. It might be fun to do some home based lessons this year.

I'd rather take on my friends twins and older daughter a few times a month for a little "school" trip with my son than force them to go back to a cramped ass, indoor classroom where he'll have to wear a mask or never get close to his little friends, bring in their own lunches and garbage removal bags, and walk a "prearranged pattern" at recess (or at least that's what the Canadians have put forward).

Might as well call that shiat yard time for as much as that shiat sounds like prison. I really hope schools just wind up at least rotating days and cutting school weeks shorter for individual students if they're GOING to have to make them attend.
 
2020-07-05 3:15:59 AM  

magores: I'm a teacher in a poor region of a poor state in the South.

School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.


I can tell you what it's going to be like.  They'll all be dropped off in front of the school as usual, and then it's your problem.  Good luck!  And I don't mean any sarcasm there.  You're going to need it.
 
2020-07-05 3:23:54 AM  

magores: School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.


My GF teaches high school.  She had planned to retire after last year, and we were going to move to another town, where her grandchild lives, so she could spend more time being grandma.

But this isn't a good time to be buying a house, selling a house, etc.  Very hard to house shop 300 miles away under the circumstances.  So she's trying to decide about "teach one more year".

Her classes are not like normal classes.  She teaches mostly problem children, and each is working on their own thing.  So some are doing math, others science or history, etc.  It's done primarily through their computers, so at the end of last year when they moved to online only, she worked from home and it wasn't a huge change for her or the students from before.

Her principal would like to have her back, but so far, he can't tell her if classes would be online or back to the classroom again.  He can't even promise that she wouldn't get moved to a more normal "You're teaching history" type of class because the school system just doesn't have a plan.

It's her choice, but I've told her that if they require her to teach in the school, I think she should go ahead and retire.  If they'll let her do online classes, that's massively lower risk, so I see nothing wrong with staying another year.  We're both older, and I have some health issues, and I consider us both high risk.  Her going to school in person every day seems like a bad plan to me.
 
2020-07-05 4:00:12 AM  

Gyrfalcon: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.


Again, there is a growing body of evidence from multiple nations in the EU that children are less likely to become infected, and less likely to infect others as compared with adults. This is observed to differ significantly from how influenza is typically spread where children are more likely to get the flu and then spread it to their family.

People have floated theories about why but it isn't known. Nevertheless, the "experiment" has been done. Iceland has done the best testing. Sweden did a free for all. Schools have not been significant sources for spreading the virus.

This does not mean that it's safe to open schools where there is significant community spread, where there is a high proportion o the population currently infected, or where the rate of infections is accelerating. That would rule out most of the US right now, at least for portions of most states.

But schools could be opened with adequate testing in place provided there is an adequate provision to close the school if an outbreak is detected that goes beyond about 2 in an isolated classroom.

Like it or not, the experiment is going to take place. I'll be putting my energies into demanding aggressive testing schedules so that we can detect and halt any outbreaks focused in schools.
 
2020-07-05 4:24:35 AM  
Nobody knows how to reopen schools safely? Rubbish.

Some countries are doing better at this than others, and everyone needs to learn from the countries that have been doing it without increasing Covid-19 cases significantly.

The problem is that for some time, many American authorities have been refusing to listen to anyone advising on the best way to do anything.

Here are some examples of world's best practice on this issue:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-he​a​lth-coronavirus-schools/lessons-from-a​round-the-world-how-schools-are-openin​g-up-after-covid-19-lockdowns-idUSKBN2​2P2KC

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/20​2​0/06/11/how-schools-in-other-countries​-have-reopened.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/​s​chools-world-reopening-coronavirus-pan​demic/story?id=70641371
 
2020-07-05 4:30:24 AM  
gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.


--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.
 
2020-07-05 4:59:06 AM  

12349876: More than 300 children in Texas day cares have caught COVID-19, and the numbers are rising
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/0​1/texas-day-care-coronavirus-cases-ris​ing/?utm_campaign=trib-social-buttons&​utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social


I'm not sure, but you probably think this is a damning indictment against the idea of reopening schools.  However, FTFA...

"As of Tuesday, there were 950 reported positive cases of COVID-19 - 307 children and 643 staff members - at 668 child care locations. Statewide, 12,207 licensed child care operations are open, and total reported coronavirus cases have risen from 59 cases in mid-May and 576 on June 23."

1.  On average 1 adult and half of a child are infected at each daycare having an infection.
2. It's not made clear In the article where each person was infected
3.  Over 90% of the locations had no infection to speak of.

I suspect that if and when schools reopen for in-person classes, there will be mitigation strategies in place to isolate the infected while continuing school.  In a severe case, switch to online for a week or two.
 
2020-07-05 5:01:09 AM  

gregscott: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.

--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.


The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

Good friend moved on from being a regular teacher to the coordinator for testing of home schooled kids at a school district in the Sierra Nevada foothills. There was a requirement for home schooled kids to adhere to some parts of a standard curriculum and be tested 4 times a year. A fair number of the families involved were fundamentalist evangelicals. Most of the kids could spell. They could repeat certain history but also had odd ideas poisoning their views. Evolution was of course a stickler but so was other science.

The biggest complaint was that a significant subset of the kids seemed scared to having an independent thought. Probably not so much about home schooling as about the particular subculture. And sad that those kids missed out on an escape to an environment that might have kindled some more independence.
 
2020-07-05 5:40:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.


The current estimated fatality rate in children is 0.01%, four hundred times less than you suggest.
 
2020-07-05 6:00:26 AM  

wademh: gregscott: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.

--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.

The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

Good friend moved on from being a regular teacher to the coordinator for testing of home schooled kids at a school district in the Sierra Nevada foothills. There was a requirement for home schooled kids to adhere to some parts of a standard curriculum and be tested 4 times a year. A fair number of the families involved were fundamentalist evangelicals. Most of the kids could spell. They could repeat certain history but also had odd ideas poi ...


Autodidacts have horrible teachers? If you want to get ahead in life, you will need to keep learning your entire live. Anyone who isn't an autodidact can be very  handicapped in the job market. My children started out being taught the alphabet, how to read, and other fundamentals. This process continued, but they eventually got better and better at learning on their own, without much supervision. And more importantly, they learned to love learning. Compare that to the public schools, where children are all too often neglected, abused, bullied, and generally taught to hate education.
 
2020-07-05 6:02:04 AM  
live life. FTFM
 
2020-07-05 6:40:07 AM  
gregscott: wademh:
The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

...


Autodidacts have horrible teachers? If you want to get ahead in life, you will need to keep learning your entire live.


Did you hear a "whoosh"?

But beyond the fact that the joke went over your head, the joke is founded on a bit of truth.

The problem with being self-taught is that it can often reinforce initial misconceptions. The thing about good teachers is that because they understand the topic in greater detail than the current lesson, they can (and good teachers do) foreshadow some future learning. It's critically important in those areas where one engages in a level of over-simplification in the earlier lessons.

I used to spend a bit of time engaging a fellow who thought he was a real polymath. Thought he could just read a biology textbook or biochemistry text or a physics text and understand. Oh he knew the words in the text but didn't understand what they really meant. He built things on top of prior misconceptions and projected the strangest views. And it was ever so hard to clear up his confusion as he was convinced I and others were just picking on him because he could cite an introductory textbook that seemed compatible with his errors.

It was mindblowing when he was trying to lecture a few of us about modern Unified Field Theory in physics. At one point after he kept insisting on a point someone offered to have the textbook author explain his error as that professor had an office down the hall. Accused the guy of spoofing the email address and then once convinced tried to savage the textbook author for having written deceptively.

Put another way, the first thing an autodidact needs to learn is that there's great value in seeking out good teachers because being too reliant in teaching yourself can be a trap.
 
2020-07-05 6:53:54 AM  

a far candle: Schools will open in August. And then by October many of the urban and suburban ones will be shut down again only with reduced staffing this time because some of the teachers will be in the hospital or incapacitated at home. And admin will say "No one could have predicted that this would be the outcome" and they still won't have a decent backup plan in place for remote learning.


Yet the disgraceful stance of the AAP (pediatricians) is to stick their fingers in their ears and say "la-la-la kids don't get covid, they need to be in school." So we literally have doctors who (not sure what else to call it) are pandemic-denying because they explicitly are not concerned about anyone who isn't a rug rat.
 
2020-07-05 7:08:33 AM  
Petey4335:

Hey! I'm in Farmville too! I have a 5 year old and I'm currently dealing with this messed up school system.
 
2020-07-05 7:54:13 AM  
My S.O. is a kindergarten teacher. Her life has been living hell the past few months. Between trying to get kids do a zoom meeting, figuring out what to do about the kids that can't attend, due to not having an ipad/pc and/or internet access, it's been hard.

It seems like her district may opt for parents to decide between virtual learning and a hybrid of in class one day, virtual the next. Which makes no sense to me, and I worry about what risks she may be at with in-person learning.

I understand there are no good answers here; which just sucks all-around.
 
2020-07-05 8:35:10 AM  

WyDave: [Fark user image image 425x294]Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese


So very brave....my God, she's a saint.
 
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