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(Politico)   No one knows how the hell to safely reopen schools   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Murica, High school, Education, School, Teacher, Fairfax County's teachers unions, school districts, new school year, public spaces  
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3959 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 04 Jul 2020 at 6:46 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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TWX [TotalFark]
2020-07-04 3:37:17 PM  
78.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 3:49:57 PM  
This is one where there is no good answer.
 
2020-07-04 3:54:31 PM  
Let's ask the new school nurse what he thinks...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 3:56:43 PM  
"Don't."
 
2020-07-04 4:53:10 PM  
Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.
 
2020-07-04 6:03:40 PM  
I mean they won't.  Either they won't open them, or they won't open them safely.
 
2020-07-04 6:51:36 PM  

TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


is that alan rickman????
 
2020-07-04 6:52:01 PM  
Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.
 
2020-07-04 6:53:42 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese
 
2020-07-04 6:56:13 PM  
I've done online instruction for a community college for a decade or so. After having years of in class - in person teaching, I personally prefer the one in one face to face for a lot of reasons. But students seem to love to platform so tech it is for our school.
My wife teaches fifth graders (9-10 year olds) and misses all the kiddos, but they're germ ridden little slobs with no sense of personal space. Keeping the k-12 "safe" to the best of our abilities as a society will keep all of their caregivers and elders in the community healthy too.

We're the US of A - we can figure this out even if it costs money rather than lives.
 
2020-07-04 6:59:40 PM  

ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 6:59:50 PM  
We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.
 
2020-07-04 7:01:55 PM  
Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.
 
2020-07-04 7:05:15 PM  
ob·vi·ous:
"easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent."
also: This.
 
2020-07-04 7:06:33 PM  
Home schooled kids are barely aware of a pandemic. From now or any age. And that's not a good thing.
 
2020-07-04 7:06:56 PM  
Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:02 PM  
Easy solution: mines with chalk boards.

Oh like YOU don't want to send your kids to dangerous and meaningless toil deep underground after months of confinement.

/ I have no kids myself but wow am I hearing it from the breeders.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:04 PM  
The only way to do schooling safely with the amount of community virus transmission in many parts of the world, including the US, is either on-line or by adopting a boarding school model: kids & staff show up at the beginning of the school year and don't leave, or meet any visitors, until the end of the school year.

Given that COVID-19 will take years (or even decades) to bring under control, several cohorts of young people will be completely screwed even before they grow up into a world destroyed by climate change.

We, as a society, have eaten our seed corn and there's absolutely no way to undo that damage.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:53 PM  
I posted this in another thread the other day. The real problem is access to resources for low-income students and tier-1 classrooms.

Not every home in America can afford a laptop or chromebook for their 2-3 kids and a broadband internet connection. Don't even get me started on special education where the parent/guardian/sibling would need to babysit the child in front of the chromebook or laptop.
 
2020-07-04 7:09:04 PM  

Ambitwistor: ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????

[Fark user image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


always loved him.  great actor

Robin Hood - Call Off Christmas
Youtube LUDntpV_HdQ
 
2020-07-04 7:11:29 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.


When a child brings home covid-19 and kills off the immune comprised parents; we're going to see a lot less children being sent to school by nervous parents. Those are all great solutions but will never happen because it's America.
/developing country and all that.
 
2020-07-04 7:12:37 PM  
As a single person attempting to adopt a child from foster care, I am almost glad that I haven't been successful yet - I don't know what single parents are going to do since they don't even have the choice to even try to alternate days/hours off with their spouse. Two days in school plus three days in day care is not only very expensive (and there likely won't be enough day care spots), but it just makes the problem worse because kids are exposed to both their school cohort and their day care cohort.

But having all the kids back full time seems like a poor choice as well. Maybe school districts are just wildly hoping that half of parents find a way to keep their kids at home completely so the kids who do go in have more space without the district needing to have a plan?
 
2020-07-04 7:12:45 PM  
Schools will open in August. And then by October many of the urban and suburban ones will be shut down again only with reduced staffing this time because some of the teachers will be in the hospital or incapacitated at home. And admin will say "No one could have predicted that this would be the outcome" and they still won't have a decent backup plan in place for remote learning.
 
2020-07-04 7:12:50 PM  
If the Taiwanese can do it, so can the Americans.

No points to Politico for making it seem like teachers are the ones stopping schools from re-opening.

The teachers understand better than most people how at risk they (and their students' families) really are from the son of a Redcap who thinks the China virus is a hoax, will insist on sending his brat to school after taking Johnny to a Trump rally the previous night, and will happily turn the rage of the entire right-wing internet on the school district and any individual teacher who says boo.

The schools will not reopen because Johnny Redcap is convinced COVID-19 is either a liberal hoax designed to make his hero look bad or a plague that only affects black people, and will refuse point-blank to do anything to help contain it or allow other adults to insist his child do so.
 
2020-07-04 7:16:46 PM  
There's some growing data from contact tracing studies that show that younger children both tend not to get infected as easily, and that those who do turn positive for the virus are about 4 fold less likely to transmit the virus to adults. This is still what would have to be called preliminary but it contrasts with our instincts about how schools spread the flu and colds.

Some places are bound and determined to open schools. What we should do is follow those "experiments" closely. Every kid gets tested twice a week. Not individual tests, do the simpler oral saliva swab, pool 10 students. Turn over results in 24 hours. If you get a positive on a pool for a class, individually test everyone in that class, their siblings, and the teacher. Pull the positive kid for two weeks. If you get a second positive in the class during that two weeks, the whole class goes home on quarantine.

Have a plan for what it will take to shut down the whole school. Publish it. If you trigger the condition, follow through and close the school.

Different school districts will have their variations. Keep track of what works, what fails. Avoid repeating failures.
 
2020-07-04 7:19:10 PM  

WyDave: [Fark user image image 425x294]Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 7:20:54 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.


All valid points. I have every confidence in the highly effective people running our various public education systems to make the right decisions without influence from special interests or political allies.
 
2020-07-04 7:25:56 PM  
Hard to open anything safely with our no intention of slowing down the virus, we give up policy.
 
2020-07-04 7:27:33 PM  
Was the obvious tag MIA?

Without a vaccine, we can't put kids back in school.
 
2020-07-04 7:31:01 PM  

Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.


Maybe you just need a better school system? My daughter's school switched to online learning (no scare quotes needed), every day, assignments were regularly handed out, the kids regularly attended, and she even created a video for her Junior Coach program that she was part of.

Weird part is, my state is last in per-student spending, yet we managed to figure it out just farking fine. Besides, it's better than having your first grader be dead, so get over it.
 
2020-07-04 7:31:57 PM  
the issue is you can't have a 1 size fits all go at it.  each level of school is going have to be done different.  For example high school, 90% of it could be done with 1 or 2 days with the teachers and the reset online. and those kids are old enough to be home alone while the parent(s) are at work.

k-5 on the other hand, the kids are to young to stay home alone and most stuff can't be done online at that age.

middle school is something in between.
 
2020-07-04 7:33:10 PM  

Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.


We're doing the home school thing this year, but I'm sure as shiat keeping that short lived. Hopefully a year is all we need. I don't care what the home school cheerleaders say, kids need social interaction as part of growing up.
 
2020-07-04 7:34:17 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

.

I predict in September we'll see a pandemic that could best be described as "apocalyptic".

We were sort of safe the first round since we (mostly) locked down in time, so we have the advantage that most people don't have it; if you go to the grocery store, odds are maybe 1 other person there has it, and that can be mitigated with social distancing measures to keep the infective rate below covid's viral load for everyone else (you're not going to be nearby that one person for very long, so you're not gong to get tneough germs to make you sick. This amount necessary to make you sick is called the 'viral load'. This leads to a mild, if transitory, immunity to the population at large, as everyone is kinda infected with it-but-not-really, raising the viral load limit even further temporarily. It's the next, best thing to herd immunity; you keep R0 (infective rate) below the average population that one has met in one day.

When you get "second wave" mechanics when EVERYONE has it, start panicking. Go to the grocery store? BAM you have it. Nip into work to get a document? BAM you have it. Virite particles can stay areosolized for three hours in the air, and if it's too thick, it could exceed the new, higher viral load limit.

This may also limit the "milder" version of the virus where people have just enough of the virus to catch it, but not enough to show symptoms; they can go WAY over viral load and catch things full force, so this "50% don't show symptoms" could be on its way out in favor of an "everyone dies" paradigm, like we saw in China when this thing first took off.

The result is what you saw in NYC, Italy, and Iran; channel dredgers to dig mass graves, freezer trucks to store them. Numbers would put that result, nationwide, at 60% infected (180,000,000) ,and ten million dead.

HOWEVER, I believe the damage will instead be mostly limited to the red states who refuse to lock down a second time, and spare the blue states, for example New York recovered very well. IF WE STAY ON TOP OF IT, we can avoid this catastrophe entirely.
 
2020-07-04 7:37:26 PM  

gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.


They only have the problem that they're not actually schools.

I mean, when you get rid of all the disadvantages of something in exchange for also giving up all of the benefits that's not really a useful trade if it was a thing worth doing in the first place.
 
2020-07-04 7:40:34 PM  
Everyone just needs to stop reproducing and it will work itself out.
 
2020-07-04 7:41:08 PM  
 
2020-07-04 7:41:55 PM  
Then don't.
 
2020-07-04 7:44:09 PM  
Let's see if that stops us from trying.
 
2020-07-04 7:45:27 PM  

gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.


They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.
 
2020-07-04 7:45:35 PM  
If I were an evil demon creature and wanted to spread the disease quickly and efficiently throughout the entire population population, I'd open schools.
Mission accomplished!

Betsy Devos, silent coward.
 
2020-07-04 7:48:40 PM  

jumac: the issue is you can't have a 1 size fits all go at it.  each level of school is going have to be done different.  For example high school, 90% of it could be done with 1 or 2 days with the teachers and the reset online. and those kids are old enough to be home alone while the parent(s) are at work.

k-5 on the other hand, the kids are to young to stay home alone and most stuff can't be done online at that age.

middle school is something in between.


How is it you think that having students mixing for one or two days would serve any purpose at all in stopping the spread?
 
2020-07-04 7:48:53 PM  
Meh.

You can always make more.
 
2020-07-04 7:49:53 PM  

Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.


As far as I've seen - the kids have been better than most of the adults. You tell the kid about the sickness, tell them what they need to do, and by and large the kids are gonna do it. It's like wearing a seat belt.
 
2020-07-04 7:50:12 PM  

Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.


One kid was already in online school. Has been for a few years. Her brother coming home for the rest if the year was little change for us.

Some of my son's teachers were unprepared. Some slid into teaching online just. But, we are out in the boondocks. Technology isn't like it is in the suburban schools. Sure, the district has laptops that were passed between classrooms.  His chemistry book was printed in the early 90's. We bought him a laptop for Christmas. Many kids out here are not so lucky. Mrs.4335 offerred assistance to the teachers to get things running. He overheard about half of the kids out here do not have internet access besides possibly a smartphone.Laptops and jumpacks were lent  out to families. Kids requiring lunches had them delivered.

district is asking all parents what they want to see. Options are full online, full in person, half and half, or something like a 'weekly in person day'. Tech ed is farked. This is farmville. They had a summer class last year where kids took apart and put back together small engines. Because kids would actually use those skills around here. They are under no illusion out here that most kids are not college bound. But trades / farm tech is more the norm. Difficult to teach tech skills without having hands on.
 
2020-07-04 7:53:15 PM  
You might be able to get high schoolers to social distance, keep their hands to themselves, wear a mask all day, and follow all the other rules. That ain't gonna happen with 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 year-olds.
 
2020-07-04 7:53:35 PM  
Once again, New Zealand has the answer

image.made-in-china.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 7:53:56 PM  
32 kids in 10-12th graders in a science classroom. I will have kids who comply to every rule and I'll have kids purposefully removing their mask to cough on each other and yell "You got Corona"! Once they see admin, advocates, etc are overwhelmed from teachers asking for that student to be removed, they'll realize there will be a lack of consequence (yet again) and therefore do what they want. And it only takes 1-2 like that and with up to 32 kids per class, the odds are likely. Then we have 4 lunch periods for the 2100+ students we have. Gonna be fun, and to think I decided not to sell my house and move over seas as planned. Oh well. I know a lot of people will try their best no matter what we are told to do. Our country would never consider funds for day care to facilitate a better strategy, I assume we will do a hybrid model and it really won't matter because they're coming from houses holds where 5 kids across multiple grades is common and they'll just add to the spread between schools. Though there is a lot of blow back online saying to fire the teacher who don't want to go back, thinking we can just hire new grads, despite their being a 600K teacher shortage and sub shortage as well. Should be a wild crazy ride. I'm sure America will proceed with the foresight and tact it is known for.
 
2020-07-04 7:59:18 PM  
Trump will insist that schools reopen or he'll withhold federal funding. Have to get those parents back to work to boost the economy! It's his only faint hope at re-election. And F You if you die for the orange one - you are expendable.
 
2020-07-04 8:00:33 PM  

WalkingSedgwick: The only way to do schooling safely with the amount of community virus transmission in many parts of the world, including the US, is either on-line or by adopting a boarding school model: kids & staff show up at the beginning of the school year and don't leave, or meet any visitors, until the end of the school year.

Given that COVID-19 will take years (or even decades) to bring under control, several cohorts of young people will be completely screwed even before they grow up into a world destroyed by climate change.

We, as a society, have eaten our seed corn and there's absolutely no way to undo that damage.


Be prepared to pay teachers a hell of a lot more to work at a boarding school.
 
2020-07-04 8:00:53 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: If I were an evil demon creature and wanted to spread the disease quickly and efficiently throughout the entire population population, I'd open schools.
Mission accomplished!

Betsy Devos, silent coward.


feh, we don't need to hear anything from that idiot anyways.   She's a Trumper.
 
2020-07-04 8:01:58 PM  
I think I'm gonna send the little french fries to a catholic school.  Once those nuns get a 2-yard stick then I know social distancing will be maintained with a vengeance.
 
2020-07-04 8:03:37 PM  
If you stop having kids you won't need schools.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 8:06:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: jumac: the issue is you can't have a 1 size fits all go at it.  each level of school is going have to be done different.  For example high school, 90% of it could be done with 1 or 2 days with the teachers and the reset online. and those kids are old enough to be home alone while the parent(s) are at work.

k-5 on the other hand, the kids are to young to stay home alone and most stuff can't be done online at that age.

middle school is something in between.

How is it you think that having students mixing for one or two days would serve any purpose at all in stopping the spread?


Stopping? no slowing it down and keep it somewhat under control? maybe.    the issue is there is some stuff you can't teach online very good.  and it wouldn't even have to be all the kids.  could be set up so depending on grades.  you keep a high b to a+ and you don't have to see the teacher unless you need to.  c- to b and you see the teacher maybe 1 or 2 times a week.  anything under a c- and you see the teacher more.

There is no way to reopen school without having some sort of increase of cases.  The best we can do is find a way to limit/control that increase.
 
2020-07-04 8:07:13 PM  
And then there are the parents who will REFUSE to let their kids wear masks, and who will teach their children that it's all some hoax, or that kids are immune, or that masks don't do anything, or some other dumb-ass thing.

Nobody wants their kids back in school with the children of these covidiots. Rightly so.
 
2020-07-04 8:07:58 PM  

Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.


My high schooler was incin from 8:20-3:00 every day. Required to be on the zoom meeting for each class. Schedule just like normal. The elementary kids had zoom class, recess, study time, zoom class etc. Just like being there in person. They learned a lot and got a lot done.

Oh yeah, they go to evil private school. Public school parents did nothing but complain about how unprepared their school was. eLearning was basically print your assignment and hope the kid does it. Every passes.
 
2020-07-04 8:09:09 PM  
Don't Oh, and return the sportsball portion of the school budget to the taxpayers while you're at it.


Don't kid yourself if you think that isn't a big reason a lot of people are pushing to reopen schools.
 
2020-07-04 8:10:43 PM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

When a child brings home covid-19 and kills off the immune comprised parents; we're going to see a lot less children being sent to school by nervous parents. Those are all great solutions but will never happen because it's America.
/developing country and all that.


I've read a fair bit of opinion on this that takes the position that, given the established nature of the virus, most schoolkids will get infected sooner or later no matter what happens, and as a society we just have to accept that.

That might be true, but in a democracy it's still not something most parents are ready to hear.  Even if they acknowledge the tokenism of precautions, they still want to hear that school systems are are taking reasonable/measured/proportionate steps to do things a bit differently.

The biggest tragedy possible are public school systems that say "we will make no changes."  The obvious response to that, as you say, are scared parents who will keep their kids out of school.  All that will do is exacerbate existing class divisions.  Better-off families who can afford at-home tutors will see their kids' education accelerate and become even more distant from the public norm than they had been.

It's a bad scene all around.  I wouldn't want to be on a school trustee board at the moment.
 
2020-07-04 8:11:21 PM  

meanmutton: Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.

As far as I've seen - the kids have been better than most of the adults. You tell the kid about the sickness, tell them what they need to do, and by and large the kids are gonna do it. It's like wearing a seat belt.


Kids aren't all poisoned by the culture war and identity politics.
 
2020-07-04 8:11:36 PM  

gregz18: We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.


Yeah, my kids private school has been making plans since there was a hint back in March that schools might close.

Why is your school waiting for the federal government? Why can't they figure this out? Why do they need someone in Washington telling them what to do?

Oh yeah, victim mentality.
 
2020-07-04 8:12:14 PM  
Teachers are going to be treated as cannon fodder.
Sadly, School is as much a childcare as anything for many people, and if the schools are not open, people can't go to work.

I've already got word here that they WILL be open somehow.  Of course this was decided by people who will not be in the classroom.
 
2020-07-04 8:12:41 PM  
You do it remotely or you don't do it at all. With the state of our public education I'm not sure you could tell a difference.
 
2020-07-04 8:14:13 PM  

Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.


Challenge level: kids don't get infected often, don't spread it, and don't get very sick if they do catch it.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-0​6​-schools-evidence-kids-coronavirus.htm​l

/Yeah, you can find that vanishingly small number that get seriously ill.
 
2020-07-04 8:14:39 PM  

gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.


Sure, except that enrollment for home schooling is filling up the programs and people are having trouble getting slots.

So yeah, that counts as "a problem".
 
2020-07-04 8:15:13 PM  
Wave 2 of the 1918 flu emerged in late August. Then wave 3 the following January. Of course we're still going to be riding wave 1...
 
2020-07-04 8:17:26 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.


1. Not true
2. True
3. If schools are just child care we should close them. This is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while
4. Children are not vectors. Please do some actual research.
5. No, we won't.
 
2020-07-04 8:20:08 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.

Challenge level: kids don't get infected often, don't spread it, and don't get very sick if they do catch it.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06​-schools-evidence-kids-coronavirus.htm​l

/Yeah, you can find that vanishingly small number that get seriously ill.


Multiply that "vanishingly small number" by the millions of school kids in each state, and go ahead and count in all of the susceptible adults they come across in the average school day, along with the people THOSE people interact with outside of school, add up the numbers, and then fark off.
 
2020-07-04 8:22:10 PM  
WE JUST HAVE TO ALL WEAR MASKS UNTIL MID-AUGUST! BUT BECAUSE FREEDOM WE CAN'T DO BASIC farkING HYGINE!
 
2020-07-04 8:23:26 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

1. Not true
2. True
3. If schools are just child care we should close them. This is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while
4. Children are not vectors. Please do some actual research.
5. No, we won't.


In modern American society, yes, schools  are literally free daycare centers for the working class.

Trying to argue otherwise makes you sound 1) very white,  2) suburban and 3) very upper middle class.
 
2020-07-04 8:24:59 PM  
Don't care how they do it. Just get the little shiats off the streets.
 
2020-07-04 8:26:40 PM  
HOME SCHULE KIDS URENT WEERDOS ANYMOREE!!!
 
2020-07-04 8:29:17 PM  

MikeyFuccon: If the Taiwanese can do it, so can the Americans.


Taiwan seized their domestic mask factories in January, ran them 24 hours a day until everyone in the country got and was forced to wear a mask by February when they also stopped international travel.

You stop this on the landing beach or it over runs your country.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore TOTAL COMBINED dead since the start of the pandemic: 1293.

In the USA, with 36% of the population supporting Trump and refusing to wear masks in July (8 months after Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Singapore started pandemic preparations), viral control is simply impossible. They will serve as a viral reservoir until 100% masking or herd immunity. Some models say that at this point, 100% masking will no longer work. The virus may be too deeply seeded into the population.

If you can't open the schools, most 2-bread-earner families will not be able to send both parents to work. Kiss what's left of the economy goodbye.

Winter 2020/21 will be simply be apocalyptic in the USA when flu season and Covid-19 hit at the same time. We should get close to herd immunity by the end of the winter. Winter 2021/22 will have a small wave which will push us into herd immunity. Virus will be controlled by Summer 2022.

A successful vaccine will create herd immunity faster.
 
2020-07-04 8:36:00 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: gregz18: We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.

Yeah, my kids private school has been making plans since there was a hint back in March that schools might close.

Why is your school waiting for the federal government? Why can't they figure this out? Why do they need someone in Washington telling them what to do?

Oh yeah, victim mentality.


As someone who has taught, most administrators are not the best and brightest and fled the classroom at the  first opportunity. Don't expect much forward thinking.
 
2020-07-04 8:36:36 PM  
Gee. Slashing education budgets year after year across 4 decades, forcing more and more kids to be crammed like sardines into each classroom, may one day bite America on the ass if......oh I dunno.....a pandemic came along?

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 8:36:56 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.

Challenge level: kids don't get infected often, don't spread it, and don't get very sick if they do catch it.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06​-schools-evidence-kids-coronavirus.htm​l

/Yeah, you can find that vanishingly small number that get seriously ill.


Not true.
 
2020-07-04 8:43:39 PM  

Vacation Bible School: Wave 2 of the 1918 flu emerged in late August. Then wave 3 the following January. Of course we're still going to be riding wave 1...


The Godfather Part II cam out two years after the original.  Then Part III came out 16 years later.  I think we can all agree that Part III was much worse than the first two, but at least we have 18 years to prepare.
 
2020-07-04 8:44:27 PM  

wademh: There's some growing data from contact tracing studies that show that younger children both tend not to get infected as easily, and that those who do turn positive for the virus are about 4 fold less likely to transmit the virus to adults. This is still what would have to be called preliminary but it contrasts with our instincts about how schools spread the flu and colds.

Some places are bound and determined to open schools. What we should do is follow those "experiments" closely. Every kid gets tested twice a week. Not individual tests, do the simpler oral saliva swab, pool 10 students. Turn over results in 24 hours. If you get a positive on a pool for a class, individually test everyone in that class, their siblings, and the teacher. Pull the positive kid for two weeks. If you get a second positive in the class during that two weeks, the whole class goes home on quarantine.

Have a plan for what it will take to shut down the whole school. Publish it. If you trigger the condition, follow through and close the school.

Different school districts will have their variations. Keep track of what works, what fails. Avoid repeating failures.


How fortuitous we're finding exactly what we hope to find...
// wishful thinking is my Weeners, but time will tell
 
2020-07-04 8:46:42 PM  
Rand Paul knows. Did anyone ask him?
 
2020-07-04 8:48:09 PM  
If it's not safe enough to allow people to cram together in church, in restaurants, in movie theaters, or inside sports arenas, what kind of moran thinks a school classroom can be made safe for the kids and teachers?

People say that adults will take risks when it comes to their own lives, but not when it comes to kids' safety, I laugh. No one would be talking about opening schools right now if that was true. I think what's closer to the truth is people are desperately looking for some way to spin it as safe to reopen schools IF we do the magic safety steps. Things like limiting how long everyone is in class for the day, limiting the amount of students in any one class, staggering the schedule so only part of the student body is in school on any given day, and filling in the gaps with online learning. That's doing something but it's not making it safe.

Part of the push is because money is involved. If a school gets funding based on how many kids are in school everyday then they need to reopen because you know the Republicans will be glad to withhold funding from schools which don't go along with their push to reopen 'the economy'. By the way, once the effects of reduced tax revenue start to hit the school districts there will be fewer teachers as layoffs start happening. So right at the time you need maximum amounts of teachers to allow class sizes to be reduced for safety reasons, you'll have fewer teachers meaning class sizes will be bigger than ever. More kids crammed in each class+contagious deadly virus= I don't know I flunked advanced math.
 
2020-07-04 8:52:50 PM  

Jerseysteve22: bobbyjoebobby: gregz18: We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.

Yeah, my kids private school has been making plans since there was a hint back in March that schools might close.

Why is your school waiting for the federal government? Why can't they figure this out? Why do they need someone in Washington telling them what to do?

Oh yeah, victim mentality.

As someone who has taught, most administrators are not the best and brightest and fled the classroom at the  first opportunity. Don't expect much forward thinking.


As an half-admin, I agree.  In so many ways.

I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.

I found the admin part very easy if you stay on top of things with a few related ideals:

1) they are policies, not law
2) policies will not properly address all situations; exceptions do exist.
3) realizing half of people are below average
4) empathy

all my fellow admins lament how busy they are while I spend 80% of my day on fark.  I really never saw a group of people so dedicated to solving problems that don't exist.
 
2020-07-04 8:53:53 PM  
I guess we'll have to do it unsafely, then.
 
2020-07-04 8:55:20 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: Children are not vectors


Daaaaaaamn, son.  You went right out there, to the edge of stupid, looked around, and jumped right the fark in.
 
2020-07-04 8:56:15 PM  

jtown: Was the obvious tag MIA?

Without a vaccine, we can't put kids back in school.


It was social distancing
 
2020-07-04 8:56:32 PM  

namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.


Plenty of bad ones, though.

I'm sure this administration will pick some of them from the long and growing list.
 
2020-07-04 9:00:14 PM  

Birnone: If it's not safe enough to allow people to cram together in church, in restaurants, in movie theaters, or inside sports arenas, what kind of moran thinks a school classroom can be made safe for the kids and teachers?


The kind of moron who also opened all those other things.

You know... Republican governors.
 
2020-07-04 9:00:24 PM  
Test everyone.  So you quarantine the right people, and then cautiously reopen things.  You know, like the experts have been saying for 5 FARKING MONTHS NOW.
 
2020-07-04 9:02:51 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.

My high schooler was incin from 8:20-3:00 every day. Required to be on the zoom meeting for each class. Schedule just like normal. The elementary kids had zoom class, recess, study time, zoom class etc. Just like being there in person. They learned a lot and got a lot done.

Oh yeah, they go to evil private school. Public school parents did nothing but complain about how unprepared their school was. eLearning was basically print your assignment and hope the kid does it. Every passes.


Private schools should be banned.
 
2020-07-04 9:03:59 PM  
I would love to go back to the classroom this fall.

Several European countries opened up their schools pretty early. Neat stuff - they had hourly handwashing and less than 10 kids per room. They took all kinds of precautions, and didn't even require masks for the wee ones. It's worked out fairly well.

Of course...their general population also took the advice of scientists pretty quickly.

Since we didn't take advice quickly, and in many cases are still actively resisting sensible measures to reduce disease spread, this fall will be a sh*tshow. Because of the rush to fix the economy- which will continue to limp along until the virus is suppressed - we will be forced to open. And I can guarandamntee you that we won't be given the resources or freedom to protect our students like we should.

It doesn't have to be this way. But I don't know how to stop it from happening. I'll be reporting to work because it's what I love to do. But I wish we didn't have to do it the most backasswards way imaginable.

I don't have kids of my own, so I don't have to make that choice for them. I am furious on behalf of those who have no choice but to send them in person. It's yet another way in which we penalize the poor for being poor.
 
2020-07-04 9:05:05 PM  

Hyjamon: Jerseysteve22: bobbyjoebobby: gregz18: We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.

Yeah, my kids private school has been making plans since there was a hint back in March that schools might close.

Why is your school waiting for the federal government? Why can't they figure this out? Why do they need someone in Washington telling them what to do?

Oh yeah, victim mentality.

As someone who has taught, most administrators are not the best and brightest and fled the classroom at the  first opportunity. Don't expect much forward thinking.

As an half-admin, I agree.  In so many ways.

I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.

I found the admin part very easy if you stay on top of things with a few related ideals:

1) they are policies, not law
2) policies will not properly address all situations; exceptions do exist.
3) realizing half of people are below average
4) empathy

all my fellow admins lament how busy they are while I spend 80% of my day on fark.  I really never saw a group of people so dedicated to solving problems that don't exist.


You sound like one or the good ones! So many dumb directives or needless changes because someone was looking for something to do or flex their power muscles.

I may go in that direction someday, but I enjoy the classroom too much, plus another graduate doesn't appeal to me right now.
 
2020-07-04 9:08:05 PM  
Easy, don't and tell the economy to fark off till COVID-19 is sorted out properly. We can always make a new one and fark the rich who complain.
 
2020-07-04 9:08:42 PM  

binkius: MikeyFuccon: If the Taiwanese can do it, so can the Americans.

Taiwan seized their domestic mask factories in January, ran them 24 hours a day until everyone in the country got and was forced to wear a mask by February when they also stopped international travel.

You stop this on the landing beach or it over runs your country.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore TOTAL COMBINED dead since the start of the pandemic: 1293.

In the USA, with 36% of the population supporting Trump and refusing to wear masks in July (8 months after Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Singapore started pandemic preparations), viral control is simply impossible. They will serve as a viral reservoir until 100% masking or herd immunity. Some models say that at this point, 100% masking will no longer work. The virus may be too deeply seeded into the population.

If you can't open the schools, most 2-bread-earner families will not be able to send both parents to work. Kiss what's left of the economy goodbye.

Winter 2020/21 will be simply be apocalyptic in the USA when flu season and Covid-19 hit at the same time. We should get close to herd immunity by the end of the winter. Winter 2021/22 will have a small wave which will push us into herd immunity. Virus will be controlled by Summer 2022.

A successful vaccine will create herd immunity faster.


What are you basing herd immunity on? We have no data on how long antibodies last.  Might only be a few months.  If that's true then herd immunity is out the window.
 
2020-07-04 9:12:18 PM  
Lots of good points, observations and ideas here but the fact is that we are going to have a worsening pandemic -- at least until we get a good vaccine and leadership that will make it widely and easily available.  We need to come to terms with the idea that our entire society is going to take a step back and lose much of what economic progress we have made in the past half century or so.   The best we can do is mitigate it and find ways of dealing with the consequences.

What would happen if we just decided that most families had to have an adult staying at home and not working so that their would be much less need for childcare?  What would happen if kids ended up taking a year off from school and just learning what they can remotely or by other means?

I am old enough to remember when stay-at-home mothers (rarely dads) were the norm and when the expectations of the school systems were less broad.  We survived canned food at home and rare trips to restaurants or movies.  We survived single-car families and hand-me-down clothing and eventually prospered to some degree. It wasn't all as pleasant as some seem to remember but we got through it to better times.  Now our collective arrogance, shortsightedness, gullibility and impatience is combining with fate to bring us down a notch.  It is time to accept that we need to reboot our whole society in many ways.
 
2020-07-04 9:16:01 PM  

Jerseysteve22: I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.



Sort of starting to understand how we keep having lowering education quality....
 
2020-07-04 9:18:43 PM  
There is NO way to do this responsibly, so the question is will the idea be abandoned (the earlier, the better chance we have to create a more productive alternative), or will it be done irresponsibly, at the cost of numerous children's lives.

Since we're talking about the United States, we all already know the answer.
 
2020-07-04 9:27:47 PM  
I live in a "liberal" state with a governor who tried to control things with regulations.  He backed off too soon and we are headed back to higher-risk country right now as he tries again to control it.

Locally, some Head Start pre-schools are starting to reopen -- mostly because of their function as day-care for low-income, working parents.  They are going with less than half the normal class sizes but I noticed that the one I entered had all the kids and half the staff without masks.  It amounts to a gamble on half-measures combined with a reduced risk population (kids) to stay safe.  I have no idea what the plans are in case of an outbreak but the administration seems competent so I am guessing they have thought that through.

However, these schools can more easily limit class size and schedules than regular schools where they have to accommodate however many want to attend for a more fixed curriculum.  I can't see the K-12 schools doing better even if they do pick up some lessons from what is happening now.
 
2020-07-04 9:30:12 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Test everyone.  So you quarantine the right people, and then cautiously reopen things.  You know, like the experts have been saying for 5 FARKING MONTHS NOW.


The USA is pretty much past the point of no return. It's too late in the game to even attempt contact tracing.

You really want someone to risk their life by dropping by Cleutus's trailer park and asking all sorts of questions regarding where they've been & whom they've had been in contact with because the government scientists need to know?

We're looking at 4M to 10M confirmed and unconfirmed covid-19 deaths easily by the time this is all over.

Hell, we might be looking at whole towns in the Midwest and the rural south cleared out because of the medical cormobidities like obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and high blood pressure that are ever so prevalent and untreated in rural America.
 
2020-07-04 9:42:11 PM  
Trying to get actual children to follow the guidelines having to do with physical spacing, masks and contact will be impossible when this f'king country can't even get "adults" to do these things. There is no way that the virus CAN'T be transmitted in a closed room with 15-30 people breathing each others air for hours, even if only one is initially infected that day.

And even if they don't drop dead - although some have - they WILL be taking it home to everyone else. The rugrats and teens will have to quarantined in their own homes the way some health care workers have been staying away from their families for months. "Johnny, go to your room... until May".
 
2020-07-04 9:43:27 PM  
What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.
 
2020-07-04 9:44:41 PM  
Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon. A lot of companies were willing to let people work from home during the lockdowns, but are now requiring people to return to work. A lot of families will be faced with the unenviable decision of sending Young kids to schools knowing they may be exposed to the virus, or abandoning their jobs to stay home with their young kids for e-learning. We could see a significant jump in government assistance requests and the trend of jobs coming back the past few weeks may reverse again.

I cannot fathom having to make that call as a parent of kids too young to stay home alone.
 
2020-07-04 9:46:20 PM  
I think it's obviously apparent - your children must die.
 
2020-07-04 9:53:18 PM  
My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?
 
2020-07-04 9:54:03 PM  

dbaggins: Jerseysteve22: I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.


Sort of starting to understand how we keep having lowering education quality....


Says the guy who can't quote a post properly
 
2020-07-04 9:58:23 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?


This has hit my PLCs on Facebook today

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-departme​n​t-of-education-refuse-to-return-to-cam​pus-until-counties-report-no-new-cases​-for-14-days?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_​23175660_en-US%3A0&recruiter=25958176&​utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=c​opylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
 
2020-07-04 9:58:54 PM  
Getting schools up and running should be the priority, not reopening bars. If it can be done safely it will require extensive planning, massive cooperation, and large sums of money; all things sadly lacking in many communities.
 
2020-07-04 10:00:09 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?


Unfortunately they need to find a new line of work. That's the reality.
 
2020-07-04 10:02:38 PM  
Wait until you have several dead teachers and students per school. What's it going to do to their self esteem when they bring the virus home and kill nana and pop pop?
 
2020-07-04 10:08:03 PM  

powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.


I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.
 
2020-07-04 10:08:35 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.


Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.
 
2020-07-04 10:14:41 PM  

paygun: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.

Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.


The best plan. Bigly successful. A beautiful plan where parts of the plan are so good. The Fake News Media and Sleepy Joe have no plan.
 
2020-07-04 10:15:51 PM  

wademh: There's some growing data from contact tracing studies that show that younger children both tend not to get infected as easily, and that those who do turn positive for the virus are about 4 fold less likely to transmit the virus to adults. This is still what would have to be called preliminary but it contrasts with our instincts about how schools spread the flu and colds.

Some places are bound and determined to open schools. What we should do is follow those "experiments" closely. Every kid gets tested twice a week. Not individual tests, do the simpler oral saliva swab, pool 10 students. Turn over results in 24 hours. If you get a positive on a pool for a class, individually test everyone in that class, their siblings, and the teacher. Pull the positive kid for two weeks. If you get a second positive in the class during that two weeks, the whole class goes home on quarantine.

Have a plan for what it will take to shut down the whole school. Publish it. If you trigger the condition, follow through and close the school.

Different school districts will have their variations. Keep track of what works, what fails. Avoid repeating failures.


MIS-C is rare though there are/were probably hundreds of cases through the USA.  I'm estimating based on the numbers I already have from the past few weeks.

The kids who get it? Mostly, previously healthy black kids. It's easy to treat if you catch it in time but nobody knows the long-term health consequences of having, you know, inflamed hearts and aneurysms and stuff.

If hundreds of white kids were being laid out with MIS-C you'd see a panic.
 
2020-07-04 10:20:35 PM  
If you want a serious answer on how to do this, you'd need to go back in time and stop gutting funding to schools that dared teach black and hispanic children how to read.
 
2020-07-04 10:28:06 PM  

Mukster: I've done online instruction for a community college for a decade or so. After having years of in class - in person teaching, I personally prefer the one in one face to face for a lot of reasons. But students seem to love to platform so tech it is for our school.
My wife teaches fifth graders (9-10 year olds) and misses all the kiddos, but they're germ ridden little slobs with no sense of personal space. Keeping the k-12 "safe" to the best of our abilities as a society will keep all of their caregivers and elders in the community healthy too.

We're the US of A - we can figure this out even if it costs money rather than lives.


Costs money rather than lives?

What farking country are YOU living in dude?
 
2020-07-04 10:36:43 PM  

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Plenty of bad ones, though.

I'm sure this administration will pick some of them from the long and growing list.


never doubt any administration's ability to make a bad decision.
 
2020-07-04 10:42:35 PM  
Crtl-F "More guns"

Hmph, surprised that solution hasn't come up yet.
 
2020-07-04 10:44:19 PM  

dbaggins: Jerseysteve22: I fled the classroom because being part admin doubled my salary.


Sort of starting to understand how we keep having lowering education quality....


you ain't kidding.  And yet I am still pining for moving to the private sector to double up again.

We are offering people with Ph.D's in biology $50k and wondering why no one with 5-7 years experience will take the job...all the while if a PhD candidate applied that was not a US citizen (H1B and the like) we would have to offer them $10-15k more because the Labor Department will state that $50k is not market value.

/smh
 
2020-07-04 10:45:28 PM  
The people who are making proposals about social distancing for students, everyone wearing a mask all the time, eating lunch in a classroom and all the other ways to keep kids safe have never spent a week in a classroom with a bunch of 7th graders.

In the best of time the flu and other disorders are usually spread around by the middle of October. Now, with the virus, I'd give a school about 2 weeks before a kid or adult  tests positive and everybody will have to go into quarantine.

There is no safe way to open schools until there is a vaccine or a treatment.
 
2020-07-04 10:48:20 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: paygun: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Somebody needs to come up with a plan, soon.

Let's hope it's Donald Trump, he's really good at doing things.

The best plan. Bigly successful. A beautiful plan where parts of the plan are so good. The Fake News Media and Sleepy Joe have no plan.


You forgot the part where he'd say "The schools are going to do great things".
 
2020-07-04 11:08:45 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.

I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.


My district is operating under the assumption that we will be opening and closing often. Each child in grades 3-8 (we don't have a high school) is getting chromebooks (this required my district to buy one extra grade's worth of books as they have been buying chrome books for a few years now), and every child in grades k-2 is getting an iPad. The devices need to go home every night in case school is suddenly closed and we transition into online learning.

New York schools typically open after Labor Day. Each district has to submit their plans for reopening to the state by July 15.

I'm hoping New York's numbers stay where they are and anything we do is just precautionary and not necessary. It's a pipe dream I can hold onto for a little while longer.
 
2020-07-04 11:14:30 PM  
I know of a way

It is a good way as far as risk/benefits go

But it is not a nice way

First we find the school that has, on average, the most expendable kids in America. Send that  school half a billion dollars for classroom and teacher upgrades since they will be the lab rats and will earn these nice things

Then we send the kids back to that school using our best practices

Then wait and watch

When things eventually turn into hellish death for the unlucky ones we report it to news agencies

Then, after the accurate news agencies report on the tragic outcomes, we go to the threads of Fark and implement the policies of the motherfarkers here who always have 20/20 hindsight and open up the rest of the schools
 
2020-07-04 11:31:26 PM  

EJ25T: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.


https://www.khanacademy.org/

Everything from elementary to high school ap.  Plus, daily and weekly email updates on what they have and have not been doing.  My 15yo has been spending a lot of time in psychology.  I've had to remind her of her math.  My oldest has spent a lot of time with coding.  My youngest is caught up in anatomy.

Local school is opening August 11.

As for socialization, who in their right mind is hanging out at the local playground or basketball court during a pandemic?

But the problem with accessibility to computers and internet for many families is an issue that needs to be addressed.  As well as who stays home with them.  Plus, while public school is supposedly free, there are fees that have to be paid each year in some places to cover costs and with much of the population out of work, even those fees are cost prohibitive.  And, if the school has uniforms, that is an added cost.

But for those that are wondering about homeschooling, the above link is a good one and ask around from there.  Plus, it is free.
 
2020-07-04 11:32:20 PM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: My friends who are teachers are freaking out.  Some of them are personally at risk medically, live with medically at-risk people, or are close to them.  So you're expecting your child's teacher to not see their parents anymore?  To have their spouse with severe copd move out?  To decide between going to work and having chemotherapy?

Unfortunately they need to find a new line of work. That's the reality.


As a veteran teacher with over 20 years of classroom experience, I am absolutely petrified. I finished my final cancer treatments a few weeks before the lock down. It will take a long time for my immune system to really recover from that, but I cannot stay home in September. My sick days were used up. My family's health insurance is provided through my job. Plus, I've spent all these years paying into the teachers' retirement system, not SS. I'm too young to retire anyway. I really, honestly love teaching my students. It is my calling, but I am just going to have to hope that somehow my family, my students, my colleagues, and I will be ok.
 
2020-07-04 11:33:26 PM  

Jeteupthemiddle: HideAndGoFarkYourself: powhound: What a bunch of great comments here. If most of you were running the country we would be in much better shape.

We had the chance to do it the right way. We saw what was going on in other countries and we saw the steps being taken to successfully crush that first wave. Coulda. Shoulda. Mostly didn't.

All we needed to do was mask up and avoid indoor group settings. And we had to do that as a nation for maybe six weeks. Unfortunately that's hard for people. The uproar is going to be epic when schools are forced to close again in September. Commenters in our local news rag already are calling for schools to be defunded because they don't want to pay tax dollars for "services promised but not delivered". Yeah go ahead and find out how much that would ultimately cost.

Tbh districts ought to be working overtime right now developing plans, and maybe they are, but teachers should be involved also. I haven't heard a peep since the first week in June. Personal opinion? Yeah, it's gonna be a total shiatshow as we expect.

I don't really see schools closing again once they're opened. I think we'll see a vast majority of places try to push through until there's an effective treatment or vaccine and any losses of students and teachers will be dismissed as the cost of doing business.

I also can't wait for the absolute shiat storm from the far right and anti-vaxxers when schools require a COVID vaccine for students.

My district is operating under the assumption that we will be opening and closing often. Each child in grades 3-8 (we don't have a high school) is getting chromebooks (this required my district to buy one extra grade's worth of books as they have been buying chrome books for a few years now), and every child in grades k-2 is getting an iPad. The devices need to go home every night in case school is suddenly closed and we transition into online learning.

New York schools typically open after Labor Day. Each district has to submit the ...


Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?
 
2020-07-04 11:39:55 PM  

ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????


WTF?
 
2020-07-04 11:43:59 PM  

RussianPotato: Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?


Abstinence Education?

Just Say No?

/dammit who typed a question mark in to the teleprompter!
 
2020-07-04 11:53:59 PM  
I really hope they reopen. Only because my kid has autism and needs the classes in person. He can't sit still and focus on a computer.
 
2020-07-05 12:15:33 AM  
One of my co-workers temporarily left the job to home school her nine grandchildren. I see one of my 50 to 60 year old neighbors with her five grandchildren every day. Before the pandemic, I didn't even know she had grandchildren. Women like these have set up classrooms in their homes, purchased text books, and are providing structured lessons. They are also providing the kids unprecedented (for the kids) levels of real life experiences with walks, creek adventures, cooking, and more.

Most American families cannot  have Granny home school the kids and cousins. Maybe Granny lives 500 miles away. Maybe Granny has to work too many hours at her job/s to do it.

Maybe for every class of 30 students, the government should pay 3 or 4 people to teach no more than 9 or 10 of these kids in their homes with the actual teacher acting to pass along curriculum, supervise, train these new assistant teachers, and serve as a resource. It would be crazy expensive to quadruple the staff budget for every school in America, but hopefully it would be very, very temporary.
 
2020-07-05 12:35:56 AM  

Ambitwistor: ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????

[Fark user image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


Do you have the original of that?
 
2020-07-05 12:37:23 AM  
In the San Francisco bay area, 40 school principals held a meeting to discuss how to reopen schools.

Soon after, one of them tested positive for covid, and now all 40 are under self quarantine.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local​/​south-bay/more-than-40-school-principa​ls-quarantined-after-covid-19-exposure​/2319031/
 
2020-07-05 12:44:50 AM  

ChrisDe: You might be able to get high schoolers to social distance, keep their hands to themselves, wear a mask all day, and follow all the other rules. That ain't gonna happen with 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 year-olds.


You're right that the younger kids won't follow the rules.  I've no idea why you think that high school kids are going to follow the rules.
 
2020-07-05 1:02:41 AM  

in flagrante: AllCatsAreBeautiful: the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

When a child brings home covid-19 and kills off the immune comprised parents; we're going to see a lot less children being sent to school by nervous parents. Those are all great solutions but will never happen because it's America.
/developing coun ...


Well, in a plague ridden society like the US is now, of course.  In a country like Canada or SK that take it seriously?  Not nearly as likely.
 
2020-07-05 1:28:48 AM  

RussianPotato: Cool.  Now how do you teach the little monsters to socialize with others?


Fortnite...

On a related note, how far in Alaska do you have to go to totally avoid Civilization?
//asking for a friend
 
2020-07-05 1:50:49 AM  

namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.


Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.
 
2020-07-05 2:07:32 AM  
I'm a teacher in a poor region of a poor state in the South.

School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.
 
2020-07-05 2:53:36 AM  
Boarding school.  Fill the gym up with cots, and the little brats don't bring the covid home to kill grandma.  They come home when the vaccine is available. 

As someone who is locked down with children, I don't see any other way.
 
2020-07-05 2:56:34 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine.


We don't have that much time.

The expected efficacy of first-generation vaccines has been grossly over-sold to the general public. The FDA's criteria for approving a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is even 50% effectiveness will be acceptable for the purposes of approval. A 50% reduction in cases isn't good enough to do close contact activities, including school, safely without social and physical controls to keep people apart. These types of controls are probably not viable in a K-12 education environment.

We'll be waiting for subsequent generations of vaccines until it will be possible to return to the way things were, and that could take decades. We can't leave 20 years worth of kids with no education and expect society to survive, but we also might not be able to educate them without school-based disease factories killing everyone.

I've said from the beginning that this virus could end civilization and nothing has yet happened to prove this fear unfounded.
 
2020-07-05 2:56:48 AM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: I posted this in another thread the other day. The real problem is access to resources for low-income students and tier-1 classrooms.

Not every home in America can afford a laptop or chromebook for their 2-3 kids and a broadband internet connection. Don't even get me started on special education where the parent/guardian/sibling would need to babysit the child in front of the chromebook or laptop.


Fortunately, a lot of the online schools will provide laptops, webcams & headsets (for live Zoom-type meetings with teachers and classmates), printers, and some way to get low cost internet at home. I'm not sending my son back to in-person schooling this fall so I've been researching a lot of the online options and pretty much all of them provide that equipment at no cost to the student. I understand it won't work for some people who can't afford to stay home and monitor their kids while they're doing their work online but for a lot of people, it's definitely going to be the best way to go if you want to keep your child home and provide them as comprehensive an online education as possible.

I don't like the idea of my son being a guinea pig for this experiment and we can definitely do just as well, if not better, doing online schooling around OUR schedule (as the pandemic has kinds turned us all into serious night owls). And we are already supplementing his social life with visits with my other friend's kids who have also been following mask and social distancing guidelines (since their kids are all high risk) so we can just keep them doing projects and extracurriculars together. Plus we've got our whole chicken breeding project going 🐣 and the kids are all loving coming over and being part of that. It might be fun to do some home based lessons this year.

I'd rather take on my friends twins and older daughter a few times a month for a little "school" trip with my son than force them to go back to a cramped ass, indoor classroom where he'll have to wear a mask or never get close to his little friends, bring in their own lunches and garbage removal bags, and walk a "prearranged pattern" at recess (or at least that's what the Canadians have put forward).

Might as well call that shiat yard time for as much as that shiat sounds like prison. I really hope schools just wind up at least rotating days and cutting school weeks shorter for individual students if they're GOING to have to make them attend.
 
2020-07-05 3:15:59 AM  

magores: I'm a teacher in a poor region of a poor state in the South.

School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.


I can tell you what it's going to be like.  They'll all be dropped off in front of the school as usual, and then it's your problem.  Good luck!  And I don't mean any sarcasm there.  You're going to need it.
 
2020-07-05 3:23:54 AM  

magores: School is supposed to start in 5 weeks or so, but no one can tell me what school will be like.  All students, every day?   Split them up, and come on opposite days?  100% online?  No one knows.


My GF teaches high school.  She had planned to retire after last year, and we were going to move to another town, where her grandchild lives, so she could spend more time being grandma.

But this isn't a good time to be buying a house, selling a house, etc.  Very hard to house shop 300 miles away under the circumstances.  So she's trying to decide about "teach one more year".

Her classes are not like normal classes.  She teaches mostly problem children, and each is working on their own thing.  So some are doing math, others science or history, etc.  It's done primarily through their computers, so at the end of last year when they moved to online only, she worked from home and it wasn't a huge change for her or the students from before.

Her principal would like to have her back, but so far, he can't tell her if classes would be online or back to the classroom again.  He can't even promise that she wouldn't get moved to a more normal "You're teaching history" type of class because the school system just doesn't have a plan.

It's her choice, but I've told her that if they require her to teach in the school, I think she should go ahead and retire.  If they'll let her do online classes, that's massively lower risk, so I see nothing wrong with staying another year.  We're both older, and I have some health issues, and I consider us both high risk.  Her going to school in person every day seems like a bad plan to me.
 
2020-07-05 4:00:12 AM  

Gyrfalcon: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.


Again, there is a growing body of evidence from multiple nations in the EU that children are less likely to become infected, and less likely to infect others as compared with adults. This is observed to differ significantly from how influenza is typically spread where children are more likely to get the flu and then spread it to their family.

People have floated theories about why but it isn't known. Nevertheless, the "experiment" has been done. Iceland has done the best testing. Sweden did a free for all. Schools have not been significant sources for spreading the virus.

This does not mean that it's safe to open schools where there is significant community spread, where there is a high proportion o the population currently infected, or where the rate of infections is accelerating. That would rule out most of the US right now, at least for portions of most states.

But schools could be opened with adequate testing in place provided there is an adequate provision to close the school if an outbreak is detected that goes beyond about 2 in an isolated classroom.

Like it or not, the experiment is going to take place. I'll be putting my energies into demanding aggressive testing schedules so that we can detect and halt any outbreaks focused in schools.
 
2020-07-05 4:24:35 AM  
Nobody knows how to reopen schools safely? Rubbish.

Some countries are doing better at this than others, and everyone needs to learn from the countries that have been doing it without increasing Covid-19 cases significantly.

The problem is that for some time, many American authorities have been refusing to listen to anyone advising on the best way to do anything.

Here are some examples of world's best practice on this issue:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-he​a​lth-coronavirus-schools/lessons-from-a​round-the-world-how-schools-are-openin​g-up-after-covid-19-lockdowns-idUSKBN2​2P2KC

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/20​2​0/06/11/how-schools-in-other-countries​-have-reopened.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/​s​chools-world-reopening-coronavirus-pan​demic/story?id=70641371
 
2020-07-05 4:30:24 AM  
gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.


--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.
 
2020-07-05 4:59:06 AM  

12349876: More than 300 children in Texas day cares have caught COVID-19, and the numbers are rising
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/0​1/texas-day-care-coronavirus-cases-ris​ing/?utm_campaign=trib-social-buttons&​utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social


I'm not sure, but you probably think this is a damning indictment against the idea of reopening schools.  However, FTFA...

"As of Tuesday, there were 950 reported positive cases of COVID-19 - 307 children and 643 staff members - at 668 child care locations. Statewide, 12,207 licensed child care operations are open, and total reported coronavirus cases have risen from 59 cases in mid-May and 576 on June 23."

1.  On average 1 adult and half of a child are infected at each daycare having an infection.
2. It's not made clear In the article where each person was infected
3.  Over 90% of the locations had no infection to speak of.

I suspect that if and when schools reopen for in-person classes, there will be mitigation strategies in place to isolate the infected while continuing school.  In a severe case, switch to online for a week or two.
 
2020-07-05 5:01:09 AM  

gregscott: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.

--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.


The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

Good friend moved on from being a regular teacher to the coordinator for testing of home schooled kids at a school district in the Sierra Nevada foothills. There was a requirement for home schooled kids to adhere to some parts of a standard curriculum and be tested 4 times a year. A fair number of the families involved were fundamentalist evangelicals. Most of the kids could spell. They could repeat certain history but also had odd ideas poisoning their views. Evolution was of course a stickler but so was other science.

The biggest complaint was that a significant subset of the kids seemed scared to having an independent thought. Probably not so much about home schooling as about the particular subculture. And sad that those kids missed out on an escape to an environment that might have kindled some more independence.
 
2020-07-05 5:40:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.


The current estimated fatality rate in children is 0.01%, four hundred times less than you suggest.
 
2020-07-05 6:00:26 AM  

wademh: gregscott: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.

--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.

The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

Good friend moved on from being a regular teacher to the coordinator for testing of home schooled kids at a school district in the Sierra Nevada foothills. There was a requirement for home schooled kids to adhere to some parts of a standard curriculum and be tested 4 times a year. A fair number of the families involved were fundamentalist evangelicals. Most of the kids could spell. They could repeat certain history but also had odd ideas poi ...


Autodidacts have horrible teachers? If you want to get ahead in life, you will need to keep learning your entire live. Anyone who isn't an autodidact can be very  handicapped in the job market. My children started out being taught the alphabet, how to read, and other fundamentals. This process continued, but they eventually got better and better at learning on their own, without much supervision. And more importantly, they learned to love learning. Compare that to the public schools, where children are all too often neglected, abused, bullied, and generally taught to hate education.
 
2020-07-05 6:02:04 AM  
live life. FTFM
 
2020-07-05 6:40:07 AM  
gregscott: wademh:
The problem with autodidacts is that some of them had horrible teachers.

...


Autodidacts have horrible teachers? If you want to get ahead in life, you will need to keep learning your entire live.


Did you hear a "whoosh"?

But beyond the fact that the joke went over your head, the joke is founded on a bit of truth.

The problem with being self-taught is that it can often reinforce initial misconceptions. The thing about good teachers is that because they understand the topic in greater detail than the current lesson, they can (and good teachers do) foreshadow some future learning. It's critically important in those areas where one engages in a level of over-simplification in the earlier lessons.

I used to spend a bit of time engaging a fellow who thought he was a real polymath. Thought he could just read a biology textbook or biochemistry text or a physics text and understand. Oh he knew the words in the text but didn't understand what they really meant. He built things on top of prior misconceptions and projected the strangest views. And it was ever so hard to clear up his confusion as he was convinced I and others were just picking on him because he could cite an introductory textbook that seemed compatible with his errors.

It was mindblowing when he was trying to lecture a few of us about modern Unified Field Theory in physics. At one point after he kept insisting on a point someone offered to have the textbook author explain his error as that professor had an office down the hall. Accused the guy of spoofing the email address and then once convinced tried to savage the textbook author for having written deceptively.

Put another way, the first thing an autodidact needs to learn is that there's great value in seeking out good teachers because being too reliant in teaching yourself can be a trap.
 
2020-07-05 6:53:54 AM  

a far candle: Schools will open in August. And then by October many of the urban and suburban ones will be shut down again only with reduced staffing this time because some of the teachers will be in the hospital or incapacitated at home. And admin will say "No one could have predicted that this would be the outcome" and they still won't have a decent backup plan in place for remote learning.


Yet the disgraceful stance of the AAP (pediatricians) is to stick their fingers in their ears and say "la-la-la kids don't get covid, they need to be in school." So we literally have doctors who (not sure what else to call it) are pandemic-denying because they explicitly are not concerned about anyone who isn't a rug rat.
 
2020-07-05 7:08:33 AM  
Petey4335:

Hey! I'm in Farmville too! I have a 5 year old and I'm currently dealing with this messed up school system.
 
2020-07-05 7:54:13 AM  
My S.O. is a kindergarten teacher. Her life has been living hell the past few months. Between trying to get kids do a zoom meeting, figuring out what to do about the kids that can't attend, due to not having an ipad/pc and/or internet access, it's been hard.

It seems like her district may opt for parents to decide between virtual learning and a hybrid of in class one day, virtual the next. Which makes no sense to me, and I worry about what risks she may be at with in-person learning.

I understand there are no good answers here; which just sucks all-around.
 
2020-07-05 8:35:10 AM  

WyDave: [Fark user image image 425x294]Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese


So very brave....my God, she's a saint.
 
2020-07-05 9:02:15 AM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: Nobody knows how to reopen schools safely? Rubbish.

Some countries are doing better at this than others, and everyone needs to learn from the countries that have been doing it without increasing Covid-19 cases significantly.

The problem is that for some time, many American authorities have been refusing to listen to anyone advising on the best way to do anything.

Here are some examples of world's best practice on this issue:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hea​lth-coronavirus-schools/lessons-from-a​round-the-world-how-schools-are-openin​g-up-after-covid-19-lockdowns-idUSKBN2​2P2KC

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/202​0/06/11/how-schools-in-other-countries​-have-reopened.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/s​chools-world-reopening-coronavirus-pan​demic/story?id=70641371


But this is the USA.
 
2020-07-05 11:30:21 AM  
We have hired a tutor for our 7 year old.  Luckily my son is only 3, so maybe he skips all of this.

My 7 year old had 1 class a week on google.  Half the class showed up.  My wife is a stay at home mom and former banker. So we do our best but we know so many people with kids being left behind.

My younger cousin in Arkansas leaves her 8 year old and 4 year old home alone everyday.  Her father/my uncle was murdered and her mother just died of breast cancer.

We have no grandparent or anyone else alive to help us, unless in my case we can afford it.

My poor cousin is a delivery driver and probably makes $15k a year.

None of this will end well unless we get some leadership so it's not just people like me who can afford to have our children actually learn something during this crazy time.

My cousin swinging by the school and picking up a couple of worksheets isn't going to do much for her kids.

I'm already planning on being the one who pays for them to go to community college.  And I've already payed for another cousin to go to Haskell Indian College.

Yes, I'm an only child taught empathy and sympathy.

We do exist.
 
2020-07-05 12:01:30 PM  

Mikey1969: Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.

We're doing the home school thing this year, but I'm sure as shiat keeping that short lived. Hopefully a year is all we need. I don't care what the home school cheerleaders say, kids need social interaction as part of growing up.


They also need a maths education that doesn't start with "pi=3" and a science education that doesn't start with "Eve was created from Adam's rib".

People who champion home schooling are weird, even if, ironically, it's the single best option right now because of the pandemic.
 
2020-07-05 12:13:52 PM  
Disease transmission is the ultimate wild car in all of this. As a teacher of thirty-three years at all three levels, here are my takes on this topic.  1. The exposure/transmission vectors are and will be impossible to control. One single student, teacher or any other school employee can be a "typhoid Mary". Because Covid has both asymptomatic and symptomatic carriers, how do you screen everyone????
 
2020-07-05 12:21:16 PM  

Gyrfalcon: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.


Where are you getting 4%?
 
2020-07-05 12:41:38 PM  

gregscott: gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.

They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.

--------------------

Well, I was certified to teach math and physics, and my wife was certified to teach language arts, history and special education. We designed an eclectic curriculum well suited to the needs of our autistic son and our neurotypical son. They scored extremely well on standardized tests. And we knew many parents without education credentials who home schooled their children with great success, almost all of the students them at well above grade level. When public schools have a better record than home schools, then maybe you will have a point. 25 years ago, when we did it, it was far better. We led a couple of home school support groups over the years. Perhaps if you were familiar with more home schools, you would recognize their potential for success. Perhaps that norm has deteriorated over the years, but that would depend on the parents, wouldn't it? As with anything, if you don't put in the work, you won't get the results.

Perhaps you should examine your prejudices. We've know home school teachers from very conservative to very liberal, with advanced educations to high school diplomas. All but one family raised autodidacts who loved education, and exceeded norms. Some of these schools had formal standardized curriculua, and others had varying degrees of John Holt's "unschooling" elements.


I see both sides of this issue. You and your wife are the ideal. However, many states do not even require a parent to have a  high school diploma, much less a college degree, to home school. Like you, I have witnessed fantastic successes with home schooling such as kids testing two grades ahead in some subject areas while also learning violin, ballet, and martial arts and flourishing along with their friends made in their activities chosen to match their interests.

Like GregScott, I have watched a high school drop out in my own family home school two children with the result that one child, who tested as gifted as child, was subsequently unable to get into any college. Thankfully, after some rocky years he found a path to a medical related vocation. He put himself through school and earned all high "A's." His accomplishment is despite his parents' not because of them. The same parents have been home schooling their daughter. She is several grades behind. She's soon going to be a teenager. Having a conversation with her is like having a conversation with a very tall 4 or 5 year old. What's being done to her is a tragedy and there isn't a thing in the world anyone can do about it because they are within the law and within their rights as parents.

I think we should gradually phase in a requirement that home school parents have an undergrad degree. I would make certain age exemptions and walk it in slowly so as not to eliminate any very bright grandmothers from serving as temporary Covid-19 instructors; grandmothers who lack a college degree only because absolutely everyone didn't go to college when they were young and finishing high school was actually an accomplishment then. Of course, there still would be no way to practically sort out the person who is an avid reader, with a keen interest in science and the world from the person who thinks watching Wheel of Fortune is enriching and educational. But surely it would help at least a little.
 
2020-07-05 12:50:37 PM  

Murkanen: They also need a maths education that doesn't start with "pi=3"


Well, you have to round it off someplace...
 
2020-07-05 1:00:20 PM  

Surrender your boo-tah: Gyrfalcon: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.

Where are you getting 4%?


Highest accepted death rate for COVID.
 
2020-07-05 1:17:13 PM  
Send all the kids who are aching to go back to school back to school with social distancing and face masks and lots of soap and hand sanitzer.

Send the rest of them to the labor concentration camps run by Trumpers.

Didn't you ever read Animal Farm? It's the Republican Pig Meister Handbook.
 
2020-07-05 1:18:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Surrender your boo-tah: Gyrfalcon: namegoeshere: This is one where there is no good answer.

Yeah, there is: Wait till there's a vaccine. Period. Or, accept that 80% of kids will contract the virus, and 4% will die, just like it was back in the bad old days of smallpox, measles, typhoid, and diphtheria, before vaccines were ever invented.

Where are you getting 4%?

Highest accepted death rate for COVID.


By pure coincidence, 4% of Americans are mass affluent and make donations to political parties, churches and their old alma maters.

Think it out.
 
2020-07-05 1:23:52 PM  

outtatowner: WyDave: [Fark user image image 425x294]Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese

[Fark user image 425x318]


A souped up version of my "If I can hit you with my hockey stick, you are too close" joke. Works well for me.
 
2020-07-05 2:30:25 PM  

JolobinSmokin: We have hired a tutor for our 7 year old.  Luckily my son is only 3, so maybe he skips all of this.

My 7 year old had 1 class a week on google.  Half the class showed up.  My wife is a stay at home mom and former banker. So we do our best but we know so many people with kids being left behind.

My younger cousin in Arkansas leaves her 8 year old and 4 year old home alone everyday.  Her father/my uncle was murdered and her mother just died of breast cancer.

We have no grandparent or anyone else alive to help us, unless in my case we can afford it.

My poor cousin is a delivery driver and probably makes $15k a year.

None of this will end well unless we get some leadership so it's not just people like me who can afford to have our children actually learn something during this crazy time.

My cousin swinging by the school and picking up a couple of worksheets isn't going to do much for her kids.

I'm already planning on being the one who pays for them to go to community college.  And I've already payed for another cousin to go to Haskell Indian College.

Yes, I'm an only child taught empathy and sympathy.

We do exist.


Your story breaks my heart. In my life before children, who are now grown, I taught niche school mathematics. I live in the great white north, but have been wondering what I can do to help in situations like this in my community, or online. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
2020-07-05 5:56:05 PM  
Maybe they can do a hybrid online / in-person system. Like one cohort goes in Monday and Wednesday; the second cohort goes in Tuesday and Thursday; and Friday is all online always.

That can help social distancing. Also be draconian in enforcement of mask wearing. And if anyone shows up to class sick, they are penalized.
 
2020-07-05 8:42:03 PM  
I feel for both you parents, and educators.

As neither of each, I can't directly relate, but I wish you the best of luck through this bullshiat.
 
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