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(Politico)   No one knows how the hell to safely reopen schools   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Murica, High school, Education, School, Teacher, Fairfax County's teachers unions, school districts, new school year, public spaces  
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3781 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 04 Jul 2020 at 6:46 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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TWX [TotalFark]
2020-07-04 3:37:17 PM  
78.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 3:49:57 PM  
This is one where there is no good answer.
 
2020-07-04 3:54:31 PM  
Let's ask the new school nurse what he thinks...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 3:56:43 PM  
"Don't."
 
2020-07-04 4:53:10 PM  
Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.
 
2020-07-04 6:03:40 PM  
I mean they won't.  Either they won't open them, or they won't open them safely.
 
2020-07-04 6:51:36 PM  

TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


is that alan rickman????
 
2020-07-04 6:52:01 PM  
Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.
 
2020-07-04 6:53:42 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese
 
2020-07-04 6:56:13 PM  
I've done online instruction for a community college for a decade or so. After having years of in class - in person teaching, I personally prefer the one in one face to face for a lot of reasons. But students seem to love to platform so tech it is for our school.
My wife teaches fifth graders (9-10 year olds) and misses all the kiddos, but they're germ ridden little slobs with no sense of personal space. Keeping the k-12 "safe" to the best of our abilities as a society will keep all of their caregivers and elders in the community healthy too.

We're the US of A - we can figure this out even if it costs money rather than lives.
 
2020-07-04 6:59:40 PM  

ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 6:59:50 PM  
We keep hearing, over and over, that this virus spreads so much more in an indoor setting.  Schools are not a magical place where the virus won't spread.

School districts all over the country, since April/May, should have been creating plans for at least a hybrid system for this fall, and should be trying to get that information out to parents, teachers, and students, so that they know what to expect.

Of course, again - NO leadership from the federal government - although in this case, like the article mentions, we probably don't want the Secretary of Education involved on this one.  You want to talk about useless - she is beyond useless.
 
2020-07-04 7:01:55 PM  
Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.
 
2020-07-04 7:05:15 PM  
ob·vi·ous:
"easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent."
also: This.
 
2020-07-04 7:06:33 PM  
Home schooled kids are barely aware of a pandemic. From now or any age. And that's not a good thing.
 
2020-07-04 7:06:56 PM  
Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:02 PM  
Easy solution: mines with chalk boards.

Oh like YOU don't want to send your kids to dangerous and meaningless toil deep underground after months of confinement.

/ I have no kids myself but wow am I hearing it from the breeders.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:04 PM  
The only way to do schooling safely with the amount of community virus transmission in many parts of the world, including the US, is either on-line or by adopting a boarding school model: kids & staff show up at the beginning of the school year and don't leave, or meet any visitors, until the end of the school year.

Given that COVID-19 will take years (or even decades) to bring under control, several cohorts of young people will be completely screwed even before they grow up into a world destroyed by climate change.

We, as a society, have eaten our seed corn and there's absolutely no way to undo that damage.
 
2020-07-04 7:08:53 PM  
I posted this in another thread the other day. The real problem is access to resources for low-income students and tier-1 classrooms.

Not every home in America can afford a laptop or chromebook for their 2-3 kids and a broadband internet connection. Don't even get me started on special education where the parent/guardian/sibling would need to babysit the child in front of the chromebook or laptop.
 
2020-07-04 7:09:04 PM  

Ambitwistor: ltdanman44: TWX: [78.media.tumblr.com image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]

is that alan rickman????

[Fark user image 177x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


always loved him.  great actor

Robin Hood - Call Off Christmas
Youtube LUDntpV_HdQ
 
2020-07-04 7:11:29 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.


When a child brings home covid-19 and kills off the immune comprised parents; we're going to see a lot less children being sent to school by nervous parents. Those are all great solutions but will never happen because it's America.
/developing country and all that.
 
2020-07-04 7:12:37 PM  
As a single person attempting to adopt a child from foster care, I am almost glad that I haven't been successful yet - I don't know what single parents are going to do since they don't even have the choice to even try to alternate days/hours off with their spouse. Two days in school plus three days in day care is not only very expensive (and there likely won't be enough day care spots), but it just makes the problem worse because kids are exposed to both their school cohort and their day care cohort.

But having all the kids back full time seems like a poor choice as well. Maybe school districts are just wildly hoping that half of parents find a way to keep their kids at home completely so the kids who do go in have more space without the district needing to have a plan?
 
2020-07-04 7:12:45 PM  
Schools will open in August. And then by October many of the urban and suburban ones will be shut down again only with reduced staffing this time because some of the teachers will be in the hospital or incapacitated at home. And admin will say "No one could have predicted that this would be the outcome" and they still won't have a decent backup plan in place for remote learning.
 
2020-07-04 7:12:50 PM  
If the Taiwanese can do it, so can the Americans.

No points to Politico for making it seem like teachers are the ones stopping schools from re-opening.

The teachers understand better than most people how at risk they (and their students' families) really are from the son of a Redcap who thinks the China virus is a hoax, will insist on sending his brat to school after taking Johnny to a Trump rally the previous night, and will happily turn the rage of the entire right-wing internet on the school district and any individual teacher who says boo.

The schools will not reopen because Johnny Redcap is convinced COVID-19 is either a liberal hoax designed to make his hero look bad or a plague that only affects black people, and will refuse point-blank to do anything to help contain it or allow other adults to insist his child do so.
 
2020-07-04 7:16:46 PM  
There's some growing data from contact tracing studies that show that younger children both tend not to get infected as easily, and that those who do turn positive for the virus are about 4 fold less likely to transmit the virus to adults. This is still what would have to be called preliminary but it contrasts with our instincts about how schools spread the flu and colds.

Some places are bound and determined to open schools. What we should do is follow those "experiments" closely. Every kid gets tested twice a week. Not individual tests, do the simpler oral saliva swab, pool 10 students. Turn over results in 24 hours. If you get a positive on a pool for a class, individually test everyone in that class, their siblings, and the teacher. Pull the positive kid for two weeks. If you get a second positive in the class during that two weeks, the whole class goes home on quarantine.

Have a plan for what it will take to shut down the whole school. Publish it. If you trigger the condition, follow through and close the school.

Different school districts will have their variations. Keep track of what works, what fails. Avoid repeating failures.
 
2020-07-04 7:19:10 PM  

WyDave: [Fark user image image 425x294]Our Republican State Superintendent just benched herself for two weeks because she attended an event with Kim Guilfoyle. It'd be nice if our leaders had the sense god gave geese


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 7:20:54 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.


All valid points. I have every confidence in the highly effective people running our various public education systems to make the right decisions without influence from special interests or political allies.
 
2020-07-04 7:25:56 PM  
Hard to open anything safely with our no intention of slowing down the virus, we give up policy.
 
2020-07-04 7:27:33 PM  
Was the obvious tag MIA?

Without a vaccine, we can't put kids back in school.
 
2020-07-04 7:31:01 PM  

Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.


Maybe you just need a better school system? My daughter's school switched to online learning (no scare quotes needed), every day, assignments were regularly handed out, the kids regularly attended, and she even created a video for her Junior Coach program that she was part of.

Weird part is, my state is last in per-student spending, yet we managed to figure it out just farking fine. Besides, it's better than having your first grader be dead, so get over it.
 
2020-07-04 7:31:57 PM  
the issue is you can't have a 1 size fits all go at it.  each level of school is going have to be done different.  For example high school, 90% of it could be done with 1 or 2 days with the teachers and the reset online. and those kids are old enough to be home alone while the parent(s) are at work.

k-5 on the other hand, the kids are to young to stay home alone and most stuff can't be done online at that age.

middle school is something in between.
 
2020-07-04 7:33:10 PM  

Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.


We're doing the home school thing this year, but I'm sure as shiat keeping that short lived. Hopefully a year is all we need. I don't care what the home school cheerleaders say, kids need social interaction as part of growing up.
 
2020-07-04 7:34:17 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Herein lies the problem.

1.) The obvious solution is to not open them. Of all of the teachers I know, this is the preference.
2.) Teachers for the most part, hate trying to teach remotely as they know it is vastly less efficient and effective than in person.
3.) We have come to finally realize that schools are more so child care facilities than they are viewed as educational facilities. The entire strategy of a return to work revolves around kids going back to school or parents finding an effective child care strategy which were already in short supply or cost-prohibitive.
4.) The idea is that kids will likely rebound. What isn't mentioned often enough is that the teachers and staff won't, the parents and extended family of the child won't. Children are primary plague vectors of almost every illness as it will spread through the family unit rapidly.
5.) This does not leave a whole lot of good options. When some sort of return to work is needed but childcare and school are not open, what happens? Well, I will tell you what happens. The parents are going to win this one and schools will be pushed to reopen so parents can go back to work. We will see an ungodly spike because A) You cannot effectively manage kids on a good day let alone with masks and social distancing during a pandemic B) Same goes for adults.

The best solution in my eyes would be to keep the farking schools closed and subsidize families who cannot afford to stay home. There has to be a hell of a lot of money we start throwing at this problem as that is the only way people are likely to stay the fark at home. The other option is to hemorrhage money dealing with the repercussions and economic calamity.

.

I predict in September we'll see a pandemic that could best be described as "apocalyptic".

We were sort of safe the first round since we (mostly) locked down in time, so we have the advantage that most people don't have it; if you go to the grocery store, odds are maybe 1 other person there has it, and that can be mitigated with social distancing measures to keep the infective rate below covid's viral load for everyone else (you're not going to be nearby that one person for very long, so you're not gong to get tneough germs to make you sick. This amount necessary to make you sick is called the 'viral load'. This leads to a mild, if transitory, immunity to the population at large, as everyone is kinda infected with it-but-not-really, raising the viral load limit even further temporarily. It's the next, best thing to herd immunity; you keep R0 (infective rate) below the average population that one has met in one day.

When you get "second wave" mechanics when EVERYONE has it, start panicking. Go to the grocery store? BAM you have it. Nip into work to get a document? BAM you have it. Virite particles can stay areosolized for three hours in the air, and if it's too thick, it could exceed the new, higher viral load limit.

This may also limit the "milder" version of the virus where people have just enough of the virus to catch it, but not enough to show symptoms; they can go WAY over viral load and catch things full force, so this "50% don't show symptoms" could be on its way out in favor of an "everyone dies" paradigm, like we saw in China when this thing first took off.

The result is what you saw in NYC, Italy, and Iran; channel dredgers to dig mass graves, freezer trucks to store them. Numbers would put that result, nationwide, at 60% infected (180,000,000) ,and ten million dead.

HOWEVER, I believe the damage will instead be mostly limited to the red states who refuse to lock down a second time, and spare the blue states, for example New York recovered very well. IF WE STAY ON TOP OF IT, we can avoid this catastrophe entirely.
 
2020-07-04 7:37:26 PM  

gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.


They only have the problem that they're not actually schools.

I mean, when you get rid of all the disadvantages of something in exchange for also giving up all of the benefits that's not really a useful trade if it was a thing worth doing in the first place.
 
2020-07-04 7:40:34 PM  
Everyone just needs to stop reproducing and it will work itself out.
 
2020-07-04 7:41:08 PM  
 
2020-07-04 7:41:55 PM  
Then don't.
 
2020-07-04 7:44:09 PM  
Let's see if that stops us from trying.
 
2020-07-04 7:45:27 PM  

gregscott: Home Schools don't have a significant problem with this.


They also don't have anything resembling a legitimate curriculum.
 
2020-07-04 7:45:35 PM  
If I were an evil demon creature and wanted to spread the disease quickly and efficiently throughout the entire population population, I'd open schools.
Mission accomplished!

Betsy Devos, silent coward.
 
2020-07-04 7:48:40 PM  

jumac: the issue is you can't have a 1 size fits all go at it.  each level of school is going have to be done different.  For example high school, 90% of it could be done with 1 or 2 days with the teachers and the reset online. and those kids are old enough to be home alone while the parent(s) are at work.

k-5 on the other hand, the kids are to young to stay home alone and most stuff can't be done online at that age.

middle school is something in between.


How is it you think that having students mixing for one or two days would serve any purpose at all in stopping the spread?
 
2020-07-04 7:48:53 PM  
Meh.

You can always make more.
 
2020-07-04 7:49:53 PM  

Snapper Carr: Easy answer:

Don't.

You think adults are bad at infection control discipline?

We are but kids are much much worse.


As far as I've seen - the kids have been better than most of the adults. You tell the kid about the sickness, tell them what they need to do, and by and large the kids are gonna do it. It's like wearing a seat belt.
 
2020-07-04 7:50:12 PM  

Not Y3K Compliant: Ugh, they closed schools in March and went to online "learning".  I understand it was rushed and teachers had very little time to prepare, but it was basically seeing the teacher once a week via zoom and printing out assignments.  The 1st grade teacher told us that half the class never even checked in online for the remaining of the school year.

They will end up opening schools up with limited capacity; those that can afford to not send their kids can stay fully online - the rest have no choice.  No idea what they will do with the buses.

They will try to get all the kids to wear masks; there will be no recess, desks will be spaced out as much as possible.  I think they will ask parents to take their children't temperature every day and give unlimited sick days.

We are lucky that one of us can stay home with the kids.  We are not going to be sending them and have been learning about home schooling to at least gauge how the online component of the school compares.


One kid was already in online school. Has been for a few years. Her brother coming home for the rest if the year was little change for us.

Some of my son's teachers were unprepared. Some slid into teaching online just. But, we are out in the boondocks. Technology isn't like it is in the suburban schools. Sure, the district has laptops that were passed between classrooms.  His chemistry book was printed in the early 90's. We bought him a laptop for Christmas. Many kids out here are not so lucky. Mrs.4335 offerred assistance to the teachers to get things running. He overheard about half of the kids out here do not have internet access besides possibly a smartphone.Laptops and jumpacks were lent  out to families. Kids requiring lunches had them delivered.

district is asking all parents what they want to see. Options are full online, full in person, half and half, or something like a 'weekly in person day'. Tech ed is farked. This is farmville. They had a summer class last year where kids took apart and put back together small engines. Because kids would actually use those skills around here. They are under no illusion out here that most kids are not college bound. But trades / farm tech is more the norm. Difficult to teach tech skills without having hands on.
 
2020-07-04 7:53:15 PM  
You might be able to get high schoolers to social distance, keep their hands to themselves, wear a mask all day, and follow all the other rules. That ain't gonna happen with 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 year-olds.
 
2020-07-04 7:53:35 PM  
Once again, New Zealand has the answer

image.made-in-china.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 7:53:56 PM  
32 kids in 10-12th graders in a science classroom. I will have kids who comply to every rule and I'll have kids purposefully removing their mask to cough on each other and yell "You got Corona"! Once they see admin, advocates, etc are overwhelmed from teachers asking for that student to be removed, they'll realize there will be a lack of consequence (yet again) and therefore do what they want. And it only takes 1-2 like that and with up to 32 kids per class, the odds are likely. Then we have 4 lunch periods for the 2100+ students we have. Gonna be fun, and to think I decided not to sell my house and move over seas as planned. Oh well. I know a lot of people will try their best no matter what we are told to do. Our country would never consider funds for day care to facilitate a better strategy, I assume we will do a hybrid model and it really won't matter because they're coming from houses holds where 5 kids across multiple grades is common and they'll just add to the spread between schools. Though there is a lot of blow back online saying to fire the teacher who don't want to go back, thinking we can just hire new grads, despite their being a 600K teacher shortage and sub shortage as well. Should be a wild crazy ride. I'm sure America will proceed with the foresight and tact it is known for.
 
2020-07-04 7:59:18 PM  
Trump will insist that schools reopen or he'll withhold federal funding. Have to get those parents back to work to boost the economy! It's his only faint hope at re-election. And F You if you die for the orange one - you are expendable.
 
2020-07-04 8:00:33 PM  

WalkingSedgwick: The only way to do schooling safely with the amount of community virus transmission in many parts of the world, including the US, is either on-line or by adopting a boarding school model: kids & staff show up at the beginning of the school year and don't leave, or meet any visitors, until the end of the school year.

Given that COVID-19 will take years (or even decades) to bring under control, several cohorts of young people will be completely screwed even before they grow up into a world destroyed by climate change.

We, as a society, have eaten our seed corn and there's absolutely no way to undo that damage.


Be prepared to pay teachers a hell of a lot more to work at a boarding school.
 
2020-07-04 8:00:53 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: If I were an evil demon creature and wanted to spread the disease quickly and efficiently throughout the entire population population, I'd open schools.
Mission accomplished!

Betsy Devos, silent coward.


feh, we don't need to hear anything from that idiot anyways.   She's a Trumper.
 
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