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(BBC-US)   The next line drawn: No use of unpaid monkey labor   (bbc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Coconut, Coconut water, Animal welfare, Coconuts, Asda, Coconut milk, Sainsbury's, Animal rights  
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2427 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2020 at 1:35 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-03 7:38:05 PM  
God damned right.
 
2020-07-04 1:11:04 AM  
Do not not pay the dynamite monkey.
 
2020-07-04 1:39:32 AM  
PETA?
stopped_reading_there.jpg
 
2020-07-04 1:39:53 AM  
Oh great. Now how are they going to earn cigarette money.
 
2020-07-04 1:41:41 AM  
Hitman Monkey wishes he could get NPR coverage...

i.pinimg.comView Full Size

Sarah McLachlan won't even sing him a sad song.

 
2020-07-04 1:46:12 AM  
Normally I regard anything from PETA as a publicity stunt, but in this case, yup, boycott the farkers.

Coconut flesh/milk/oil is not a necesity in the western world, so we can afford slightly higher prices from human labour...  although given where this shiat comes from, I wouldn't put it past them to just start slapping collars around child slaves.
 
2020-07-04 1:46:26 AM  
If PETA says it, then I'ma disbelieve it.
 
2020-07-04 1:47:44 AM  
Farking evil and a bigger boycott is needed.
 
2020-07-04 1:51:32 AM  
Apart from the abuses exposed by PETA (which may be genuine, but no indication given how typical it might be) how is this morally different from any other working farm animal?
 
2020-07-04 1:57:36 AM  
So according to the article a male monkey is said to be capable of picking 1,000 a day, while a male human is only capable of picking 80... something seems off about their math. That's like 10 an hour if you only work 8hrs which I'm pretty sure is a light work day for the rest of the workers in that country. Granted I'm sure a human wouldn't be able to harvest 1,000 as that is excessive for what they can quickly produce but 80 seems like a gross underestimate.
 
2020-07-04 1:57:52 AM  

zimbach: Apart from the abuses exposed by PETA (which may be genuine, but no indication given how typical it might be) how is this morally different from any other working farm animal?


Too intelligent to be treated poorly and like slaves.  Sure use them, but they need to be treated like we treat working dogs and horses in developed countries, not like machines to use and throw away.
 
2020-07-04 2:00:52 AM  
That is so racist, calling those coconut pickers "monkeys." Absolutely horrible.

Oh wait...
 
2020-07-04 2:01:03 AM  
keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.
 
2020-07-04 2:02:17 AM  

Langdon_777: zimbach: Apart from the abuses exposed by PETA (which may be genuine, but no indication given how typical it might be) how is this morally different from any other working farm animal?

Too intelligent to be treated poorly and like slaves.  Sure use them, but they need to be treated like we treat working dogs and horses in developed countries, not like machines to use and throw away.


I mean, look at what we do to pigs, tbf.
 
2020-07-04 2:02:44 AM  
Everything PETA crusades for turns out to be some ridiculous exaggeration.  They're the poster children for the perpetually outraged activist class.  I remember once they got their undies in a twist over aquariums being cruel, because splashing bothers the fish.  I don't know if they've ever actually been anywhere that fish naturally live, but splashing is a omnipresent in their native habitat.
 
2020-07-04 2:06:24 AM  
Down with the monkey statues!
emuseumstore.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 2:07:35 AM  

zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.


It seems like you shouldn't even need to climb the tree.  Couldn't you just bonk the coconuts with a long pole, or use something like this?

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 2:12:23 AM  

i ignore u: zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.

It seems like you shouldn't even need to climb the tree.  Couldn't you just bonk the coconuts with a long pole, or use something like this?

[i.pinimg.com image 667x1000]


A buddy of mine started a coconut water brand in Thailand, and I got to go see how they farm and harvest the coconuts. One of the interesting things about them is that in order to maximize yield for different types of processes (whether you want sweeter coconut water, etc), you have to pick them in a pretty narrow window and they don't all come ripe at the same time.

We spent a day drinking with a farmer who was about 60, and would just run up the trees and start knocking on the coconuts to pick the ones he thought would be best. A long stick often wouldn't suit, given those parameters.

I have never seen monkeys doing it...not saying it's impossible, but it would be a minority of producers.
 
2020-07-04 2:16:28 AM  
Nelson will be disappointed.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 2:20:30 AM  
Hmmm....we can train monkeys to pick produce.....hmmm....
 
2020-07-04 2:26:12 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Gotta feed the monkey, man.
/Monkey socialism, more difficult to achieve than it sounds.
 
2020-07-04 2:27:24 AM  

zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.


Yea but 80. 10 coconuts an hour for an 8 hour day (likely less since their work day is likely longer in the country)

So looking up some quick facts on coconut trees. Each tree can produce 50 or more annually in the right conditions and coconuts take about a full year to ripen. They can be harvested by ladder or pole saw. Given that, you aren't climbing a ladder for 1 coconut at a time, you could easily be harvesting significantly more, possibly as many as 8 or so at a time from the same tree. You could even harvest them with a pole saw meaning climbing isn't necessary but even if it was, it doesn't take more than a couple minutes to setup a ladder and climb it to start harvesting. All of which excludes the idea of using some sort of boom lift for extremely easy access. Seriously you would need to take 6 minutes to harvest each single coconut and be working a reasonable 8 hour shift to have a production rate that low and they make it sound like that's the upper limits. Take a watch and set an alarm for 6 minutes and just sit and see how long that takes and try to think about how slow you'd have to be moving to only harvest 1 of something.

Now you could say that maybe they work in teams of 2 or more to harvest so maybe they produce more, say 16 an hour (still likely light but I'll be willing to call this a fair low ball) but it's split between them for an average of 8. The problem is that this same sort of thing isn't factored into the other statistic as each monkey has a handler holding the rope/chain so they don't escape and directing them to the next tree while loading up the produce. That's still a team of 2 yet you wouldn't consider the monkey to be only harvesting 500 right?

So at any rate still going to call bullshiat on them juicing those stats to make it seem even worse than it already is. It's already terrible enough, they are abusing/exploiting the monkeys in extreme ways for financial profit as it is. That is a worthy story by itself. They really don't need to try and make it seem worse by low balling an average workers production in such an obvious way. It's stuff like that which makes me want to question what else in the article they are embellishing and that's a damn shame.

/I hate coconut anyways so I've been boycotting for years.
 
2020-07-04 2:28:21 AM  
It was the blurst of times.
 
2020-07-04 2:34:03 AM  

keldaria: /I hate coconut anyways so I've been boycotting for years.


Choose the Destroyer...

external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 2:37:57 AM  

I_told_you_so: keldaria: /I hate coconut anyways so I've been boycotting for years.

Choose the Destroyer...

[external-content.duckduckgo.com image 720x479]


God I hated those... If child abuse were in chocolate form, it would be that.

/half joking
//half
 
2020-07-04 2:40:05 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 2:50:20 AM  
So if PETA doesn't like monkeys picking coconuts, shouldn't they also be against dogs leading blind people around or drug sniffing dogs? I mean if we're going to draw a line here, let's really draw a line.
 
2020-07-04 2:53:33 AM  
Maybe the 80 coconuts a day for a human worker is because typically they do not use ladders - they climb the trees. Then each coconut in a bunch is not at exactly the correct degree of ripeness, so the worker cannot take them all at once. Then the worker cannot just throw the coconuts to the ground, because they might crack,  so has to carry them down the tree.
 
2020-07-04 2:55:12 AM  

phishrace: So if PETA doesn't like monkeys picking coconuts, shouldn't they also be against dogs leading blind people around or drug sniffing dogs? I mean if we're going to draw a line here, let's really draw a line.


I assume they are against such things...?
 
2020-07-04 3:35:00 AM  

bitbender: i ignore u: zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.

It seems like you shouldn't even need to climb the tree.  Couldn't you just bonk the coconuts with a long pole, or use something like this?

[i.pinimg.com image 667x1000]

A buddy of mine started a coconut water brand in Thailand, and I got to go see how they farm and harvest the coconuts. One of the interesting things about them is that in order to maximize yield for different types of processes (whether you want sweeter coconut water, etc), you have to pick them in a pretty narrow window and they don't all come ripe at the same time.

We spent a day drinking with a farmer who was about 60, and would just run up the trees and start knocking on the coconuts to pick the ones he thought would be best. A long stick often wouldn't suit, given those parameters.

I have never seen monkeys doing it...not saying it's impossible, but it would be a minority of producers.


Hmm.  I bet you could attach something to the end of the pole to grip the coconut, deliver a standardized knock, and record the resulting sound, like a giant stethoscope or some electronic device.  There's a similar technique for checking if melons are ripe, but they conveniently grow on grocery store shelves so no tree climbing is required.
 
2020-07-04 3:49:54 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-04 3:54:11 AM  

phishrace: So if PETA doesn't like monkeys picking coconuts, shouldn't they also be against dogs leading blind people around or drug sniffing dogs? I mean if we're going to draw a line here, let's really draw a line.


They probably do because they're assholes. As for monkeys picking coconuts I bet it is literally a sideshow. Thailand has a pretty farked up relationship with animals but even they know there are easier ways to pick coconuts.
 
2020-07-04 3:56:35 AM  

keldaria: zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.

Yea but 80. 10 coconuts an hour for an 8 hour day (likely less since their work day is likely longer in the country)

So looking up some quick facts on coconut trees. Each tree can produce 50 or more annually in the right conditions and coconuts take about a full year to ripen. They can be harvested by ladder or pole saw. Given that, you aren't climbing a ladder for 1 coconut at a time, you could easily be harvesting significantly more, possibly as many as 8 or so at a time from the same tree. You could even harvest them with a pole saw meaning climbing isn't necessary but even if it was, it doesn't take more than a couple minutes to setup a ladder and climb it to start harvesting. All of which excludes the idea of using some sort of boom lift for extremely easy access. Seriously you would need to take 6 minutes to harvest each single coconut and be working a reasonable 8 hour shift to have a production rate that low and they make it sound like that's the upper limits. Take a watch and set an alarm for 6 minutes and just sit and see how long that takes and try to think about how slow you'd have to be moving to only harvest 1 of something.

Now you could say that maybe they work in teams of 2 or more to harvest so maybe they produce more, say 16 an hour (still likely light but I'll be willing to call this a fair low ball) but it's split between them for an average of 8. The problem is that this same sort of thing isn't factored into the other statistic as each monkey has a handler holding the rope/chain so they don't escape and directing them to the next tree while loading up the produce. That's still a team of 2 yet you wouldn't consider the monkey to be only harvesting 500 right?

So at any rate still going to call bullshiat on them juicing those stats to make it seem even worse tha ...


As the article mentioned you need to pick the coconuts at the right time.  Monkeys can be trained to pick the right coconuts and they can climb trees a lot faster than we can.

Cherry pickers are a good Idea... but we're talking about Thailand here.  The average GDP per capita is less than 8,000 dollars a year.

Coconuts cost less than a dollar a piece and Cherry pickers cost tens of thousands of dollars plus fuel and maintenance.  The people are cheaper and the monkeys are apparently more efficient.
 
2020-07-04 3:58:43 AM  
Are the monkeys living on their own?
 
2020-07-04 4:02:11 AM  

Parrahs: Are the monkeys living on their own?


No, they're staying in their mom's knotholes... just like every other primate in this generation.
 
2020-07-04 4:43:42 AM  

zimbach: Apart from the abuses exposed by PETA (which may be genuine, but no indication given how typical it might be) how is this morally different from any other working farm animal?


Good point. But I draw the line at making cows and donkeys climb coconut trees. That's just mean.
 
2020-07-04 5:12:35 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't monkeys like climbing trees? I mean they seem to do it a lot
 
2020-07-04 5:25:14 AM  

puffy999: Do not not pay the dynamite monkey.


F+ck you.  He's union. He's doing his job.
 
2020-07-04 5:31:51 AM  

ComaToast: zimbach: Apart from the abuses exposed by PETA (which may be genuine, but no indication given how typical it might be) how is this morally different from any other working farm animal?

Good point. But I draw the line at making cows and donkeys climb coconut trees. That's just mean.


The problem for them is getting down.
 
2020-07-04 5:32:27 AM  
I wonder if you could make a dish of monkey brains in coconut water.
 
2020-07-04 5:32:57 AM  

foo monkey: puffy999: Do not not pay the dynamite monkey.

F+ck you.  He's union. He's doing his job.


Hey now, I said do not not pay.
 
2020-07-04 5:33:54 AM  

cakeman: I wonder if you could make a dish of monkey brains in coconut water.


oh, I remember Orbitz.
 
2020-07-04 5:34:41 AM  
Oh nevermind that was monkey liver in carbonated water.
 
2020-07-04 5:57:05 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Are monkey knife fights still ok?
 
2020-07-04 7:09:52 AM  
I use trained sparrows to harvest coconuts.  They grip it by the husk.
 
2020-07-04 7:12:29 AM  

electricjebus: keldaria: zimbach: keldaria:

Might have something to do with speed to ascend a tree and ability to jump from one tree to another without descending. That can do a lot to raise the harvest rate.

Yea but 80. 10 coconuts an hour for an 8 hour day (likely less since their work day is likely longer in the country)

So looking up some quick facts on coconut trees. Each tree can produce 50 or more annually in the right conditions and coconuts take about a full year to ripen. They can be harvested by ladder or pole saw. Given that, you aren't climbing a ladder for 1 coconut at a time, you could easily be harvesting significantly more, possibly as many as 8 or so at a time from the same tree. You could even harvest them with a pole saw meaning climbing isn't necessary but even if it was, it doesn't take more than a couple minutes to setup a ladder and climb it to start harvesting. All of which excludes the idea of using some sort of boom lift for extremely easy access. Seriously you would need to take 6 minutes to harvest each single coconut and be working a reasonable 8 hour shift to have a production rate that low and they make it sound like that's the upper limits. Take a watch and set an alarm for 6 minutes and just sit and see how long that takes and try to think about how slow you'd have to be moving to only harvest 1 of something.

Now you could say that maybe they work in teams of 2 or more to harvest so maybe they produce more, say 16 an hour (still likely light but I'll be willing to call this a fair low ball) but it's split between them for an average of 8. The problem is that this same sort of thing isn't factored into the other statistic as each monkey has a handler holding the rope/chain so they don't escape and directing them to the next tree while loading up the produce. That's still a team of 2 yet you wouldn't consider the monkey to be only harvesting 500 right?

So at any rate still going to call bullshiat on them juicing those stats to make it seem even worse tha ...

As the article mentioned you need to pick the coconuts at the right time.  Monkeys can be trained to pick the right coconuts and they can climb trees a lot faster than we can.

Cherry pickers are a good Idea... but we're talking about Thailand here.  The average GDP per capita is less than 8,000 dollars a year.

Coconuts cost less than a dollar a piece and Cherry pickers cost tens of thousands of dollars plus fuel and maintenance.  The people are cheaper and the monkeys are apparently more efficient.


1250% more efficient for a trained monkey to do the job than a human because they can climb trees faster? Still calling bullshiat. You've also ignored half my post where I take the most conservative approach possible to even come close to getting as low as 80 a day. You are correct it's Thailand and labor is cheap, but boom lifts are not a super expensive luxury nor are they uncommon in Thailand as they are frequently used in their construction industry. You are also talking about something that replaces the need for 10-11.5 employees with increased efficiency if they are truly only getting 80 per day without one. A 60ft rough terrain boom lift typically runs about 80-90k USD new and I often see used around 20-30k. In fact 1 google search later and I actually found one located in Bangkok, Thailand with an asking price of 27.5k. You can buy a used one and have it pay for itself in saved labor cost in less a year or so. Labor is cheap there but not that farking cheap where you'd ignore buying a cheap used lift in favor of throwing a blunt labor force at the problem. Even an entry level farm worker according to google makes 142,700 THB or just over 4,500 USD annually. Even if you had to buy a new lift and considered all fuel and maintenance it would still pay itself off in under 3 years and you'd still be able to sell that lift at that point and recoup at least 60-75% of the purchase price meaning even if your efficiency gains still came nowhere close what a monkey would produce, it would still be super cost effective over just blunt human labor. The idea that a human can only harvest 80 a day while a monkey can harvest 1,000 means not only would you need to ignore technologies like a boom lift but that the human would need to take on average 6 minutes to harvest one while the monkey just took 30 seconds. I cannot fathom how they came up with anywhere near their numbers unless they are trying to compare a man who doesn't use any tools Climbing a tree freestyle like a monkey to a monkey. I suppose that is an "apples to apples" comparison but hardly an honest one.
 
2020-07-04 8:02:57 AM  
Does anyone remember the movie where orangutans were working in the mines and paid with canned goods ? Can't find anything on the internet about it .
 
2020-07-04 8:05:21 AM  

fark account name: I use trained sparrows to harvest coconuts.  They grip it by the husk.


Swallows are better birds for the task .
 
2020-07-04 9:14:34 AM  
Draconian monkey labor laws are a perfect example of government over reach and the start of a slippery slope. Mark my words.

The invisible hand of the free market should be allowed to use its monkey-proxies to harvest coconuts the way God (the right one, I mean) intended.
 
2020-07-04 9:29:41 AM  

RottenEggs: fark account name: I use trained sparrows to harvest coconuts.  They grip it by the husk.

Swallows are better birds for the task .


African or a European?
 
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