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(Fox News)   Not news: Chinese bank uses gold bars as collateral for loan. News: 83 tons of gold in exchange for 4 billion in loans. Fark: The gold is all fake. Ultrafark: No one checked until the loans were issued   (foxnews.com) divider line
    More: Fake, Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, People's Liberation Army, United States, People's Republic of China, Public company, Influenza, Wuhan, Government-owned corporation  
•       •       •

3488 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2020 at 2:36 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-07-01 1:46:20 PM  
25 votes:
What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.
 
2020-07-01 2:24:44 PM  
23 votes:
If no one knows it's fake, it's as good as real gold.
 
2020-07-01 2:50:48 PM  
20 votes:
If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $4 billion, that's the bank's problem.
 
2020-07-01 3:22:18 PM  
9 votes:
I see this a different way... I have a feeling this guy is being framed by the Chinese government as an excuse to destroy him and/or take over his bank.
The news makes us all jump up and say "wow! How did they fall for this? Didn't they check the gold??"
And the Chinese government says "We can't believe this has happened... maybe this free market and open banking thing needs to be controlled! Wow, capitalists can't be trusted."

When in reality, it probably was real gold and it got swapped out for fakes by the Chinese government and they pin it on the guy who was not loving his Communist party enough.

/could be totally wrong, but I have a hard time China would have let this story come out if they didn't want you to know this narrative.
 
2020-07-01 2:42:15 PM  
7 votes:
Speaking of unverified gold being used for propping up the economy... How's Ft. Knox doing these days?
 
2020-07-01 2:51:06 PM  
6 votes:

Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.


One in ten, that's interesting. When we are doing testing on multiple container deliveries of pharma raw materials (from the same mfg. lot) we do (SQRTn)+1, where we round imperfect roots up to the next whole number (e.g., a 15 container shipment would have 5 containers sampled & tested).
 
2020-07-01 2:46:32 PM  
6 votes:
Genuinely kind of impressed. Ballsy, considering that this is the sort of fraud that's been going on for millenia. I mean, who would seriously expect this to actually work in the modern world?
 
2020-07-01 2:46:50 PM  
5 votes:
Very interesting story - but why provide it as a foxnews link? Just to discredit it?
 
2020-07-01 4:36:06 PM  
4 votes:

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: First someone got the German payment processor for 2.1 billion.

Now a Chinese central bank for 4.

This is an EPIC year for thievery, and the US election is still coming.

Remember the old quip 'Nobody can tell you're skinny dipping until the tide goes out'. Tides out. Bad time to be highly leveraged.

There are a _lot_ of gold covered tungsten bars/coins out there today. IIRC the best non destructive test is a specialized ohm meter.


Its gold.  It can't be easily destroyed.  Worst case scenario, you might have a few bars cut in half or with holes drilled in them.

If it really upsets you, they can be melted down again.

For $4B in loans...  Id be doing a hell of a lot of random sampling.
 
2020-07-01 2:48:26 PM  
4 votes:
First someone got the German payment processor for 2.1 billion.

Now a Chinese central bank for 4.

This is an EPIC year for thievery, and the US election is still coming.

Remember the old quip 'Nobody can tell you're skinny dipping until the tide goes out'. Tides out. Bad time to be highly leveraged.

There are a _lot_ of gold covered tungsten bars/coins out there today. IIRC the best non destructive test is a specialized ohm meter.
 
2020-07-01 2:10:59 PM  
4 votes:
Guessing the same pile of "gold" was used as collateral at five other banks before this one.


Hopefully, the borrowers are HK protestors.
 
2020-07-01 1:57:40 PM  
4 votes:

Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.


Well this has been covered
 
2020-07-01 5:11:53 PM  
3 votes:

Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.


With tungsten/gold you'd need a pretty accurate ruler. A 10kg bar of each only differs in volume by 0.6cc.
 
2020-07-01 3:05:46 PM  
3 votes:

Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.



True.  Silver and gold are soft, ductile metals.
 
2020-07-01 2:51:44 PM  
3 votes:

FrancoFile: This is basically an episode of Hogan's Heroes.

How do say "I know nothing!" in Mandarin?


我什么都不知道!
Wǒ shénme dōu bù zhīdào!
 
2020-07-01 9:10:25 PM  
2 votes:
And just think, "Doomsday Preppers" think this is going to be the only thing we can trust in a post-megawhoops society.
 
2020-07-01 7:40:53 PM  
2 votes:
A friend buys rare high grade metal alloys and happens to know way too much about the gold industry.  He claims that so much tungsten and zinc is being used to pad fake gold that alloys containing those two elements are often short or lacking entirely.
 
2020-07-01 6:18:11 PM  
2 votes:
The Made In China stamp should have tipped them off .
 
2020-07-01 4:10:52 PM  
2 votes:

BeotchPudding: croesius: Speaking of unverified gold being used for propping up the economy... How's Ft. Knox doing these days?

[medias.spotern.com image 640x360]

More Gold than Fort Knox.


Especially since they have not allowed anyone to do inventory in decades.
 
2020-07-01 3:49:33 PM  
2 votes:

Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.


All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.
 
2020-07-01 3:28:34 PM  
2 votes:

Vespers: Genuinely kind of impressed. Ballsy, considering that this is the sort of fraud that's been going on for millenia. I mean, who would seriously expect this to actually work in the modern world?


Difficulty...China

Where anything goes, as long as it makes you money.
 
2020-07-01 2:57:41 PM  
2 votes:

Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.


Wow, your friend is a bullionaire??

/sorry
//the people in the article broke the most important law in China
///don't get caught
 
2020-07-01 2:41:13 PM  
2 votes:
Isn't the whole thing fake to begin with?
 
2020-07-01 6:21:13 PM  
1 vote:
Eighty three TONS, current rate, is $4,727,414,400. Was anyone even casually checking to see why the bank was willing to take a $727M risk on that deal?
 
2020-07-01 6:10:58 PM  
1 vote:

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: GrogSmash: The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: First someone got the German payment processor for 2.1 billion.

Now a Chinese central bank for 4.

This is an EPIC year for thievery, and the US election is still coming.

Remember the old quip 'Nobody can tell you're skinny dipping until the tide goes out'. Tides out. Bad time to be highly leveraged.

There are a _lot_ of gold covered tungsten bars/coins out there today. IIRC the best non destructive test is a specialized ohm meter.

Its gold.  It can't be easily destroyed.  Worst case scenario, you might have a few bars cut in half or with holes drilled in them.

If it really upsets you, they can be melted down again.

For $4B in loans...  Id be doing a hell of a lot of random sampling.

Coins command a premium price. Because they are harder to fake. Drilling holes in them costs $.


I doubt coins were used in a $4B loan as collateral.  That kind of tonnage is done via bars.
 
2020-07-01 5:32:04 PM  
1 vote:
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-01 5:27:49 PM  
1 vote:

Pinko_Commie: Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.

With tungsten/gold you'd need a pretty accurate ruler. A 10kg bar of each only differs in volume by 0.6cc.


huh, learn something every day.   Bulk tungsten you can buy at around $200 a kilo.  Gold is running at $60K.   there is some arbitrage available there if you are willing to commit epic fraud.
 
2020-07-01 5:20:30 PM  
1 vote:
Geez, even the guys on Pawn Stars figured out how to make sure the gold they bought was real.
 
2020-07-01 4:12:38 PM  
1 vote:

Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.


Drill samples, but yeah same idea.
 
2020-07-01 3:34:53 PM  
1 vote:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-07-01 3:27:25 PM  
1 vote:
I have a feeling that Jia fellow, if he's still alive, has a pretty good stash of the real stuff squirreled away somewhere. Probably a good time to disappear, if possible.
 
2020-07-01 3:24:37 PM  
1 vote:
"So this is like real gold, right?"
"Yeah bro, yeah. This is real primo shiat right here. Top shelf stuff. Ain't nothing wrong with this gold, no siree."
"Well... okay."

How I imagine it went down.
 
2020-07-01 3:08:19 PM  
1 vote:
Fake gold? What's the Trump angle on this Fool's Gold story. There has to be one.
 
2020-07-01 2:59:03 PM  
1 vote:

Sin'sHero: Guessing the same pile of "gold" was used as collateral at five other banks before this one.


Hopefully, the borrowers are HK protestors.


You don't know how collateral works
 
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