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(Fox News)   Not news: Chinese bank uses gold bars as collateral for loan. News: 83 tons of gold in exchange for 4 billion in loans. Fark: The gold is all fake. Ultrafark: No one checked until the loans were issued   (foxnews.com) divider line
    More: Fake, Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, People's Liberation Army, United States, People's Republic of China, Public company, Influenza, Wuhan, Government-owned corporation  
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3488 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2020 at 2:36 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-07-01 5:27:49 PM  

Pinko_Commie: Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.

With tungsten/gold you'd need a pretty accurate ruler. A 10kg bar of each only differs in volume by 0.6cc.


huh, learn something every day.   Bulk tungsten you can buy at around $200 a kilo.  Gold is running at $60K.   there is some arbitrage available there if you are willing to commit epic fraud.
 
2020-07-01 5:32:04 PM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-07-01 6:10:58 PM  

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: GrogSmash: The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: First someone got the German payment processor for 2.1 billion.

Now a Chinese central bank for 4.

This is an EPIC year for thievery, and the US election is still coming.

Remember the old quip 'Nobody can tell you're skinny dipping until the tide goes out'. Tides out. Bad time to be highly leveraged.

There are a _lot_ of gold covered tungsten bars/coins out there today. IIRC the best non destructive test is a specialized ohm meter.

Its gold.  It can't be easily destroyed.  Worst case scenario, you might have a few bars cut in half or with holes drilled in them.

If it really upsets you, they can be melted down again.

For $4B in loans...  Id be doing a hell of a lot of random sampling.

Coins command a premium price. Because they are harder to fake. Drilling holes in them costs $.


I doubt coins were used in a $4B loan as collateral.  That kind of tonnage is done via bars.
 
2020-07-01 6:18:11 PM  
The Made In China stamp should have tipped them off .
 
2020-07-01 6:21:07 PM  
Sure, but for general gold buying advice, either get an resistance based tester or patronize a trusted source that has one (or a better non-destructive tester).
Don't assume anything about Krugerrands etc. Fakes are mass produced and available on Alibaba. Never trust anyone.

BTW. Just drilling in Tungsten-carbide is test enough. Density matches and drill bit didn't break, it's gold. Just have to make sure you go deep enough.
 
2020-07-01 6:21:13 PM  
Eighty three TONS, current rate, is $4,727,414,400. Was anyone even casually checking to see why the bank was willing to take a $727M risk on that deal?
 
2020-07-01 6:29:56 PM  

dbaggins: Pinko_Commie: Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.

With tungsten/gold you'd need a pretty accurate ruler. A 10kg bar of each only differs in volume by 0.6cc.

huh, learn something every day.   Bulk tungsten you can buy at around $200 a kilo.  Gold is running at $60K.   there is some arbitrage available there if you are willing to commit epic fraud.


On Alibaba: Custom 10oz tungsten gold bullion
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detai​l​/Custom-10-oz-tungsten-gold-bullion_60​727210335.html
Fark user imageView Full Size


Custom 10 oz tungsten gold bullion /Art&Collectible Use and Plated Technique tungsten gold bullion

FOB Reference Price:Get Latest Price
USD 28.00 - USD 30.00 / Piece | 100 Piece/Pieces Australia Kookaburra coin (Min. Order)
 
2020-07-01 7:40:53 PM  
A friend buys rare high grade metal alloys and happens to know way too much about the gold industry.  He claims that so much tungsten and zinc is being used to pad fake gold that alloys containing those two elements are often short or lacking entirely.
 
2020-07-01 9:10:25 PM  
And just think, "Doomsday Preppers" think this is going to be the only thing we can trust in a post-megawhoops society.
 
2020-07-02 3:12:40 PM  

Pinko_Commie: Russ1642: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

All it takes to detect fake gold is a scale, a ruler, a calculator, and around eight brain cells. And if you're going to be loaning money based on it it's a good idea to cut a few bars in half.

With tungsten/gold you'd need a pretty accurate ruler. A 10kg bar of each only differs in volume by 0.6cc.


Well, it'd certainly catch the copper fakes. Generally you ramp up the testing. Quick test can discover the copper fakes. Some electrical tests can detect the others. Measuring the density more accurately isn't hard (weight it dry then suspended in water). Then there's sampling, which involves actual lab work. I'm just guessing here but this has got to be a solved problem by now. If you handle billions of dollars in bullion you should have at least a small laboratory just to do this work.
 
2020-07-02 6:30:51 PM  

chitownmike: PhoenixFarker: Sword and Shield: What blows my mind here is how lazy the fakes are.

If you're going to fake gold, use tungsten. Very similar density (19.32 g/cc for Au, 19.35 g/cc for W). Lead is the classic, but it's not even close (11.35 g/cc). This appears to be copper or brass (densities 8.96 for pure copper, roughly the same for brass unless it's really heavily zinc).

Picking the bar up should have made it obvious.

A longtime friend of mine is a bullion dealer. If he gets a large shipment of gold or silver, the standard practice is to randomly select 1 in 10 for testing. Even a large amount like this shouldn't be massively hard.

One in ten, that's interesting. When we are doing testing on multiple container deliveries of pharma raw materials (from the same mfg. lot) we do (SQRTn)+1, where we round imperfect roots up to the next whole number (e.g., a 15 container shipment would have 5 containers sampled & tested).

None of that is interesting


I thought it was interesting. But I'm no fun at parties anyway.
 
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