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(CNN)   Does Hallmark have a card that says "I'm so very sorry my great-great-Grandpa colonized your country, enslaved your people, pillaged your resources, and killed 10 million of your citizens"? Because someone get the King of Belgium that card   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Belgium, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Congo Free State, Colonialism, Constitution of Belgium, colonial period, King of Belgium, Leopold II of Belgium  
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2033 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jun 2020 at 12:02 PM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-30 3:36:35 PM  
So, one for all the folks in the US who came over from Europe before, say, 1890, to send to the Native Americans?
 
2020-06-30 3:39:14 PM  

Magorn: wakizashi: capt.snicklefritz: What_Would_Jimi_Do: It isn't like Africans enslaved other Africans and then brokered them to whites. Nope.

Get a load of this asshole.

Right?!  I mean everyone knows blacks don't have the agency to do these sorts of things.  Only the white man can profit from pain.  The world was filled with noble savages before the white man enslaved and killed everyone.  It is to laugh

The "Africans sold other Africans" canard is the last refuge of the White Supremacist.  because

1) It's largely not True. The Majority of Slaves in the Transatlantic slave trade were captured by gangs of Portuguese or Arab salve traders who had the advantages of guns and ships and cannons which the natives did not.

2) to the extent that Slavery existed in Africa before the Transatlantic trade; it was more akin to being a POW.   Men captured in war were taken as 'slaves" and worked for a few years before they were freed, and usually settled down with a nice girl from their new village.  It's primary function seems to have been to increase genetic diversity and prevent inbreeding among tribes.  When Europeans bought slaves from African tribal chiefs by and large this is what the seller was expecting would happen.   That they would be brutally dragged 1,000's of miles away with only a 50-50 chance of surviving the trip and then be a slave for their entire lifetime and the lifetime of all their descendants wasn't something the Chiefs could comprehend until too late


I hate those salve traders, jacking up the price of Vaporub and Tiger Balm. Heartless bastards.
 
2020-06-30 3:45:21 PM  
Some people pick the worst farking hills to die on.
 
2020-06-30 4:06:24 PM  
Belgium? I thought this was going to be about the treatment of American Indians.
OK, Yeah, Leopold was terrible too.

geggam: jso2897: White people should never have to apologize for anything.

This very statement is racist. 

The ONLY people who should apologize are those who do wrong

Your racist ass is on here posting anti white shiat and most likely 100% of the white folks on this forum alone havent every done you wrong 

But go on with your victim mentality


Give it a rest. EVERYONE does stuff that's wrong. It's part of being human. However, it's mostly white people who refuse to admit when they've done something wrong and apologize.
 
2020-06-30 4:09:59 PM  

NotARocketScientist: However, it's mostly white people who refuse to admit when they've done something wrong and apologize.


Racist statement
 
2020-06-30 4:10:15 PM  

Elegy: joker420: All slaves that came from Africa were owned by a black man first, BTW

Phhhhtttt, the Belgians were too morally just for slavery. They were too busy instilling Christian values and lifting up the local culture to be as refined and elevated as the white man to mess with slaves.
[...]
(Some things are worse than slavery. The blatant genocide in the Belgian Congo was one of these things.)


Fine distinctions may matter.

The Congo Free State (personal property of Leopold II as approved by the Great Powers) ended in 1908. The genocide as described here supposedly ended with it.

The Belgian Congo (under the control of the Belgian government, parliament and judiciary) ran from 1908 until exactly 60 years ago, 30 June 1960. It had all the trappings of a colony including racism, forced religion and organized robbery, but no evidence of genocide.

/ not sure what to apologize for first
// Belgian but never very proud of it
 
2020-06-30 4:45:57 PM  

ZaphodTheSmall: Elegy: joker420: All slaves that came from Africa were owned by a black man first, BTW

Phhhhtttt, the Belgians were too morally just for slavery. They were too busy instilling Christian values and lifting up the local culture to be as refined and elevated as the white man to mess with slaves.
[...]
(Some things are worse than slavery. The blatant genocide in the Belgian Congo was one of these things.)

Fine distinctions may matter.

The Congo Free State (personal property of Leopold II as approved by the Great Powers) ended in 1908. The genocide as described here supposedly ended with it.

The Belgian Congo (under the control of the Belgian government, parliament and judiciary) ran from 1908 until exactly 60 years ago, 30 June 1960. It had all the trappings of a colony including racism, forced religion and organized robbery, but no evidence of genocide.

/ not sure what to apologize for first
// Belgian but never very proud of it


Nothing. Your country is responsible. You personally are not. Therefore any apology would be dishonest.
 
2020-06-30 4:56:35 PM  
"There's a whole generation of younger people in Belgium who have nothing to do with colonialism, and who are willing to question the colonial past," Stanard said.

Hah, except for, you know, living in a country whose public works were built using the "Builder King's" blood-soaked profits, and whose public treasury was stuffed to the brim with extracted Congolese wealth.

But yeah, other than the entire society you occupy, you guys have nothing to do with colonialism. "We're cool, right Africa?"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-30 5:30:55 PM  

BigNumber12: "There's a whole generation of younger people in Belgium who have nothing to do with colonialism, and who are willing to question the colonial past," Stanard said.

Hah, except for, you know, living in a country whose public works were built using the "Builder King's" blood-soaked profits, and whose public treasury was stuffed to the brim with extracted Congolese wealth.

But yeah, other than the entire society you occupy, you guys have nothing to do with colonialism. "We're cool, right Africa?"

[Fark user image 573x379]


Not so much.  Leopold considered the Congo his PERSONAL property and all it's profits flowed into his personal bank account, not the Public treasury, And, in fact when he was finally forced to relinquish the Congo under threat fo British and French Invasion,  he forced Belgium to fork over the then astronomical sum of 215 million francs  (figure about 500 hundred billion dollars today) to buy him out
 
2020-06-30 5:44:56 PM  

Magorn: BigNumber12: "There's a whole generation of younger people in Belgium who have nothing to do with colonialism, and who are willing to question the colonial past," Stanard said.

Hah, except for, you know, living in a country whose public works were built using the "Builder King's" blood-soaked profits, and whose public treasury was stuffed to the brim with extracted Congolese wealth.

But yeah, other than the entire society you occupy, you guys have nothing to do with colonialism. "We're cool, right Africa?"

[Fark user image 573x379]

Not so much.  Leopold considered the Congo his PERSONAL property and all it's profits flowed into his personal bank account, not the Public treasury, And, in fact when he was finally forced to relinquish the Congo under threat fo British and French Invasion,  he forced Belgium to fork over the then astronomical sum of 215 million francs  (figure about 500 hundred billion dollars today) to buy him out


"Thinking of the future after his death, Leopold did not want the collection of estates, lands and heritage buildings he had privately amassed to be scattered among his daughters, each of whom was married to a foreign prince. In 1900, he created the Royal Trust, by means of which he donated most of his property to the Belgian nation. This preserved them to beautify Belgium in perpetuity, while still allowing future generations of the Belgian royal family the privilege of their use."
 
2020-06-30 6:09:49 PM  

mrschwen: ZaphodTheSmall: Elegy: joker420: All slaves that came from Africa were owned by a black man first, BTW

Phhhhtttt, the Belgians were too morally just for slavery. They were too busy instilling Christian values and lifting up the local culture to be as refined and elevated as the white man to mess with slaves.
[...]
(Some things are worse than slavery. The blatant genocide in the Belgian Congo was one of these things.)

Fine distinctions may matter.

The Congo Free State (personal property of Leopold II as approved by the Great Powers) ended in 1908. The genocide as described here supposedly ended with it.

The Belgian Congo (under the control of the Belgian government, parliament and judiciary) ran from 1908 until exactly 60 years ago, 30 June 1960. It had all the trappings of a colony including racism, forced religion and organized robbery, but no evidence of genocide.

/ not sure what to apologize for first
// Belgian but never very proud of it

Nothing. Your country is responsible. You personally are not. Therefore any apology would be dishonest.


Maybe not criminally liable, but there are other kinds of responsibility.

Let me start small.

In the school year 1975-1976 my history book contained a sentence that would translate (from Dutch) roughly as: "On his death the King donated the Congo to Belgium". I apologize for continuing to believe that blatant lie until well past the age where I started to have access to better sources.
 
2020-06-30 9:15:35 PM  

dereksmalls: If you haven't read King Leopold's Ghost, prepare to be shocked.
Not only did King Leo rape and pillage to his heart's content, but when he was done, he had the audacity to sell what was left of the Congo to Belgium.


...and then burned all the records of what occurred there.

"I will give them my Congo, but they have no right to know what I did there." - Leopold II

/ I just finished that book this afternoon.
 
2020-07-01 6:03:09 AM  

ZaphodTheSmall: / not sure what to apologize for first
// Belgian but never very proud of it


And here I was thinking I was the resident snarky Belgian on Fark.

Seriously though, as I said in the previous thread on this, I can't even snark about it. It's a royal (in both senses of the word) clusterfark. Albert II should have made a public apology 10 years ago on their 50th. Even then it was already overdue.

ZaphodTheSmall: In the school year 1975-1976 my history book contained a sentence that would translate (from Dutch) roughly as: "On his death the King donated the Congo to Belgium". I apologize for continuing to believe that blatant lie until well past the age where I started to have access to better sources.


I'm from a later generation (born in 1983) and I can't really remember anything about it from the history lessons. I usually have a good memory and I have friends from (back then still in) Rwanda so it would've hit close to home and stuck. It seems not much attention was given to it, probably didn't help in this regard that I went to a catholic school.
 
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