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    More: News, Hong Kong, Mainland China, China, People's Republic of China, Human rights, national security, human rights groups, anniversary of Hong Kong  
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10298 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 30 Jun 2020 at 2:05 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-30 3:29:35 AM  

pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.


Damn, that's harsh even for China.  At least they can still run away.
 
2020-06-30 3:31:02 AM  

erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*


Kaiser Wilhelm allegedly offered to support Mexico if they wanted to take Texas back during WW1. The best guess as to why they didn't take him up on it was how heavily armed the Texans were. So, maybe twice.
 
2020-06-30 3:31:07 AM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Now watch Trump react to the news by doing..........jack sh*t about it.


Had Hilary been president Hong Kong would already be part of the UK again.
 
2020-06-30 3:32:52 AM  

pkjun: Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.

Are you for real dude? Taiwan was a Japanese colony for fifty years, and after that was a single-party military dictatorship with US financial and military support for another 40. Taiwan didn't become a democracy until 1996.

Taiwan's economic growth rate since 1990 is virtually identical to China's. The only difference is that Taiwan had a massive head start in terms of industrial capital and infrastructure, because Taiwan spent a century as a forward operating base for the Japanese and American colonial and neocolonial empires.

/The Brits did not "colonise all of China"
//They colonised Singapore and Hong Kong, and an archipelago of concessions in port cities and used them to exert economic dominance over China
///Money flowed out of China, into HK, and from HK into the Empire.


the brits outright owned a small portion of HK and leased the rest. 

pkjun: NephilimNexus: phalamir: Dude, HK is part of China.

[media-amazon.com image 491x706]

And someday the entire planet will just be "part of China."

[i.imgur.com image 850x622]

"Watch out, I hear that guy over there might be expansionist"


Dude, America spreads "freedom", it definitely doesn't topple democratic governments and install brutal puppet dictatorships, destabilizing otherwise functioning countries, or force countries to change national policies beneficial to its citizens on threat of invasion, so American companies can steal other countries wealth to the detriment of native populations.
 
2020-06-30 3:33:07 AM  

pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.


Even when dis-armed, they still can be dangerous

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-30 3:39:25 AM  

Me so thorny: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Kaiser Wilhelm allegedly offered to support Mexico if they wanted to take Texas back during WW1. The best guess as to why they didn't take him up on it was how heavily armed the Texans were. So, maybe twice.


I mean that and the fact that the US was an industrial juggernaut that was about to pour an average of ten thousand soldiers a day into Europe, while Mexico was wracked by civil war and unable to put down bandit armies that rarely numbered more than five to ten thousand raggedy-ass cowboys.

That might have had something to do with it.

But it could have also been that Texans are rootin-tootin six-shootin sons of guns. That might have been it too.
 
2020-06-30 3:57:44 AM  

apocryphaandmyth: Boojum2k: Ah, you have some boot polish on your lip. Just off to the side.

Boojum2k: Don't be surprised when the bootheel you're licking now smashes you in the face later.

You almost had me, but then you screwed up the metaphor.  Who polishes the heel?  What on earth would be the point of polishing a boot heel?  It's like you're not even thinking about what you're saying, you're just trying to say "boot" and "lick" as often as possible.


Not getting involved in your internet argument, but once upon a time, when I wore black polished boots and camo for work every day, I polished the whole boot.  Heel and everything.  We even had a special product for the heal to make it extra black and shiny.
 
2020-06-30 4:03:51 AM  

Tanqueray: Your move, Boris.


"La la la, i'm not listening la la la" is his ballpark.
 
2020-06-30 4:12:17 AM  

pkjun: Me so thorny: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Kaiser Wilhelm allegedly offered to support Mexico if they wanted to take Texas back during WW1. The best guess as to why they didn't take him up on it was how heavily armed the Texans were. So, maybe twice.

I mean that and the fact that the US was an industrial juggernaut that was about to pour an average of ten thousand soldiers a day into Europe, while Mexico was wracked by civil war and unable to put down bandit armies that rarely numbered more than five to ten thousand raggedy-ass cowboys.

That might have had something to do with it.

But it could have also been that Texans are rootin-tootin six-shootin sons of guns. That might have been it too.


Like...do Texans actually learn that it was their six-shootin' rough-ridin' cowpokes who made the Mexicans decide not to invade America in 1917?

In 1914, a US Navy officer was mad that some of his drunk sailors trespassing on a Mexican base in Tampico were temporarily arrested and detained for questioning before being returned to the US fleet, so he demanded a formal state apology and a 21-gun salute to the American flag. He got the apology but not the salute, so the United States Navy invaded and occupied Veracruz for five months as punishment.

And Mexico could do absolutely nothing about it.

A few years later, Pancho Villa raided a border town in Texas, so General Pershing led a major expedition through Mexico on a manhunt, brushing aside Mexican complaints about its sovereignty as America occupied huge swathes of northern Mexico in a futile attempt to find the bandit revolutionary.

And again, Mexico could do nothing about it.

And then America decides to enter WWI and goes full Hulk Mode, training and equipping and deploying 300,000 fresh soldiers every month.

And Germany is like "hey uh Mexico, America looks pretty scary right now, any chance you want to take 'em on 1:1 right now I'll let you keep anything you take".

And Mexico is like "lol wtf dude I'm just trying to keep the same government in power for six months without getting invaded, no way I'm invading America, how do you even imagine that would work, we're afraid to sneeze too loudly because it might trigger a third American occupation in five years, those guys are terrifying."

And Texans are apparently like "if it weren't for our six-shooters Mexico would have conquered us in 1917?" Is this a thing they're taught?
 
2020-06-30 4:12:31 AM  

pkjun: NephilimNexus: phalamir: Dude, HK is part of China.

[media-amazon.com image 491x706]

And someday the entire planet will just be "part of China."

[i.imgur.com image 850x622]

"Watch out, I hear that guy over there might be expansionist"


I think the point is China is currently using 1800s US style cries of "unity" to eviscerate both urban and rural sociopolitical opponents... and, you know, ethnic and religious minorities, but that's another problem altogether.
 
2020-06-30 4:12:43 AM  
2020 just continues to deliver, doesn't it?

Let's give 2020 a big hand!


/I haven't had this much suck in one year since I came out in college.
 
2020-06-30 4:15:17 AM  
Wasn't this meant to happen decades in the future? oh yeah right China ... !
 
2020-06-30 4:18:09 AM  
China is hungry for more fools on their plate. Sigh...
 
2020-06-30 4:27:19 AM  
Hong Kong is the 2020 version of 1968 Czechoslovakia. We never had any intention of helping, it's all political bluffing meant for the domestic audience.
 
2020-06-30 4:39:00 AM  

Nadie_AZ: "Chinese state-run Xinhua news agency previously reported the law would criminalize offenses such as secession, subversion against the central Chinese government, terrorism, and colluding with foreign forces."

We get to see watch China reconquer Hong Kong.

fark


The only way China even thinks about reversing course is if the financial/business world threatens to take their banking and manufacturing money elsewhere.
 
2020-06-30 4:42:10 AM  

pkjun: Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.

Are you for real dude? Taiwan was a Japanese colony for fifty years, and after that was a single-party military dictatorship with US financial and military support for another 40. Taiwan didn't become a democracy until 1996.

Taiwan's economic growth rate since 1990 is virtually identical to China's. The only difference is that Taiwan had a massive head start in terms of industrial capital and infrastructure, because Taiwan spent a century as a forward operating base for the Japanese and American colonial and neocolonial empires.

/The Brits did not "colonise all of China"
//They colonised Singapore and Hong Kong, and an archipelago of concessions in port cities and used them to exert economic dominance over China
///Money flowed out of China, into HK, and from HK into the Empire.


Are you for this secret law stripping Hong Kongers of their rights? Or against it?
 
2020-06-30 4:42:12 AM  

Squik2: RIP right to assembly
RIP free press
RIP independent judiciary
RIP open communication/collaboration to those outside China

aka One Country Two Systems, what let Hong Kong be Hong Kong


Harmonious Society. This, above all else, is the Chinese way.

/It's like looking into America's political future.
 
2020-06-30 4:44:05 AM  

Heliodorus: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

If you listen to some Hongkongers, they speak of one country, two systems and the basic law, as if that agreement didn't have a defined end date and purposely vague carve outs to allow Mainland China to interfere as the CCP saw fit. It's not surprising random farkers think this is akin to one country invading another neighboring one.

Frankly, the way HK has been acting to the extradition bill and the fears about revolution at the forefront of the CCP's concerns, Beijing is correct in taking advantage of the global situation and solving the issue now instead of letting the problem fester until 2047.

/Before anyone claims otherwise, I'm far from a Beijing supporter, the simple truth is the writing was on the wall once mainland China industrialized and HK's importance to the nations total gdp was drastically reduced


Great support of the Party!
5 social credits have been added to your score!
 
2020-06-30 5:00:17 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: John Hopoate: Taiwan take note - you're next.

Here in NZ and around the world we sell land to Chinese interests instead of granting then long term leases, so stupid.

Some nations recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign country. Hong Kong was not. So Taiwan is in a more powerful position.


TAIWAIN #1
 
2020-06-30 5:16:46 AM  
I went back and looked - our resident Chinese bot hasn't made a comment in this thread.

Looking back on it, England should never have given back Hong Kong, they should have said "Ummm No, now what are you going to do about it?"
 
2020-06-30 5:35:23 AM  

Commander Lysdexic: pkjun: Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.

Are you for real dude? Taiwan was a Japanese colony for fifty years, and after that was a single-party military dictatorship with US financial and military support for another 40. Taiwan didn't become a democracy until 1996.

Taiwan's economic growth rate since 1990 is virtually identical to China's. The only difference is that Taiwan had a massive head start in terms of industrial capital and infrastructure, because Taiwan spent a century as a forward operating base for the Japanese and American colonial and neocolonial empires.

/The Brits did not "colonise all of China"
//They colonised Singapore and Hong Kong, and an archipelago of concessions in port cities and used them to exert economic dominance over China
///Money flowed out of China, into HK, and from HK into the Empire.

Are you for this secret law stripping Hong Kongers of their rights? Or against it?


Against it, of course. But it doesn't really matter what I think about it, does it? I'm not involved. I'm more interested in the role my own country is playing. Aren't you?
 
2020-06-30 5:58:02 AM  

Boojum2k: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Ah, you have some boot polish on your lip. Just off to the side.


I'm always reminded of the shootout scene in The Book of Eli.
Once the RPG comes out, game over.

/or the Predator drone; your choice
 
2020-06-30 6:05:41 AM  

stray_capts: apocryphaandmyth: Boojum2k: Ah, you have some boot polish on your lip. Just off to the side.

Boojum2k: Don't be surprised when the bootheel you're licking now smashes you in the face later.

You almost had me, but then you screwed up the metaphor.  Who polishes the heel?  What on earth would be the point of polishing a boot heel?  It's like you're not even thinking about what you're saying, you're just trying to say "boot" and "lick" as often as possible.

Not getting involved in your internet argument, but once upon a time, when I wore black polished boots and camo for work every day, I polished the whole boot.  Heel and everything.  We even had a special product for the heal to make it extra black and shiny.


Yeah, but he read a book...lol
 
2020-06-30 6:06:39 AM  
This is how democracy is weakened globally, as democracies are defeated, one by one.

It's a terrible situation. It's terrible that the US has essentially no government.

But unfortunately, this has been almost inevitable, as China rises to the world's greatest power this century.

This is just one speed bump of many against democracy. The romantic days of people fighting for democracy and winning are likely no longer.

We've gotten a little taste as unmarked police attacked peaceful protesters in DC for a photo op.
 
2020-06-30 6:08:30 AM  

pkjun: Commander Lysdexic: pkjun: Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.

Are you for real dude? Taiwan was a Japanese colony for fifty years, and after that was a single-party military dictatorship with US financial and military support for another 40. Taiwan didn't become a democracy until 1996.

Taiwan's economic growth rate since 1990 is virtually identical to China's. The only difference is that Taiwan had a massive head start in terms of industrial capital and infrastructure, because Taiwan spent a century as a forward operating base for the Japanese and American colonial and neocolonial empires.

/The Brits did not "colonise all of China"
//They colonised Singapore and Hong Kong, and an archipelago of concessions in port cities and used them to exert economic dominance over China
///Money flowed out of China, into HK, and from HK into the Empire.

Are you for this secret law stripping Hong Kongers of their rights? Or against it?

Against it, of course. But it doesn't really matter what I think about it, does it? I'm not involved. I'm more interested in the role my own country is playing. Aren't you?


You are all for anything that someone else does.
 
2020-06-30 6:14:00 AM  

GrogSmash: 2020, the year that keeps on giving.

Anyone got a list of actors/singers/writers/sport teams they expected to get wiped out?  It would be fitting with the year...


Never Forget
Fark user imageView Full Size

Who?
 
2020-06-30 6:15:00 AM  
"....law would criminalize offenses such as secession, subversion against the central Chinese government, terrorism, and colluding with foreign forces."

How could that not have already been criminal offenses?
 
2020-06-30 6:17:06 AM  

pkjun: pkjun: Me so thorny: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Kaiser Wilhelm allegedly offered to support Mexico if they wanted to take Texas back during WW1. The best guess as to why they didn't take him up on it was how heavily armed the Texans were. So, maybe twice.

I mean that and the fact that the US was an industrial juggernaut that was about to pour an average of ten thousand soldiers a day into Europe, while Mexico was wracked by civil war and unable to put down bandit armies that rarely numbered more than five to ten thousand raggedy-ass cowboys.

That might have had something to do with it.

But it could have also been that Texans are rootin-tootin six-shootin sons of guns. That might have been it too.

Like...do Texans actually learn that it was their six-shootin' rough-ridin' cowpokes who made the Mexicans decide not to invade America in 1917?

In 1914, a US Navy officer was mad that some of his drunk sailors trespassing on a Mexican base in Tampico were temporarily arrested and detained for questioning before being returned to the US fleet, so he demanded a formal state apology and a 21-gun salute to the American flag. He got the apology but not the salute, so the United States Navy invaded and occupied Veracruz for five months as punishment.

And Mexico could do absolutely nothing about it.

A few years later, Pancho Villa raided a border town in Texas, so General Pershing led a major expedition through Mexico on a manhunt, brushing aside Mexican complaints about its sovereignty as America occupied huge swathes of northern Mexico in a futile attempt to find the bandit revolutionary.

And again, Mexico could do nothing about it.

And then America decides to enter WWI and goes full Hulk Mode, training and equipping and deploying 300,000 fresh soldiers every month.

And Germany is like "hey uh Mexico, America looks pretty scary right now, any chance you want to take 'em on 1:1 right now I'll let you keep anything you take".

And Mexico is like "lol wtf dude I'm just trying to keep the same government in power for six months without getting invaded, no way I'm invading America, how do you even imagine that would work, we're afraid to sneeze too loudly because it might trigger a third American occupation in five years, those guys are terrifying."

And Texans are apparently like "if it weren't for our six-shooters Mexico would have conquered us in 1917?" Is this a thing they're taught?


This will change.  Texas is going purple, then blue.  The change will be permanent.  The GOP is not reproducing, we are.  It is simple demographics.  Predominantly; the right leaning students in my classes are only children or from very small families.  the left leaning students come from very large families.  Year after year, I see the same thing.  The future is very bright
.
 
2020-06-30 6:17:33 AM  
I feel bad for Hong-Kong. But anyone in that city who had the means to leave as soon as Britain handed it back over to China should have done so. You were fooling yourself if you thought China was going to allow this 1 country 2 system policy.
 
2020-06-30 6:17:35 AM  

Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.


Genuine democracy? :) I don't think they could vote while they were a British colony.
 
2020-06-30 6:27:39 AM  

pkjun: Boojum2k: But all the authoritarian regimes in the last couple of centuries have had one identical practice to begin with. Disarm the population for "safety."

Well, except for all of those who rely on a heavily armed partisan paramilitary to enforce their rule, which are globally much more common than those who have disarmed the population.

And come to think of it, most of the countries that have disarmed their populations are wealthy, peaceful and democratic countries, many of which have higher quality of life rankings and better democratic health indicators than the US does.

Sorry, yeah, anyway, back to shaking your head at China for crushing Hong Kong protests with like a quarter of the fury American cops have unleashed on American citizens over the past month.


You're always so predictable.

One or two reasonable-sounding posts, then you start posting bullshiat about how the CCP and its minions are basically similar to other peaceful democracies etc. etc  etc.

There is no democracy today that remotely approximates human rights abuses in China.  Stop making invidious comparisons and spreading lies, China Tool.
 
2020-06-30 6:30:41 AM  

phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.


Hey, Adolf, didn't you used to think Poland was part of Germany, as well?
 
2020-06-30 6:39:20 AM  

bfh0417: pkjun: Commander Lysdexic: pkjun: Straight Outta Hate: silvervial: phalamir: Naido: Democratic governments of the world would take some kind of action, but can't risk making their paymasters nervous

Dude, HK is part of China.  There is not a nation on Earth that is going to get involved in an internal political dispute of another nation unless there are petrochemicals or diamonds involved.  If DC were to be returned to Maryland, France is not going to land troops on the shores of the Potomac.  Anyone who didn't see this was going to happen at some point after 1997 was a damned fool.  Frankly, I am surprised it took this long.

This is one situation, one place, that "colonialism" was right. If they had stayed a British colony, none of this would be happening. Too bad the lease was up :(

It is not like the Brits did not colonize all of China.
The things that propped Hong Kong up were Capitalism and genuine Democracy.
To see what China would look like with those things take a look at Taiwan.
No colonialism was needed there.

Are you for real dude? Taiwan was a Japanese colony for fifty years, and after that was a single-party military dictatorship with US financial and military support for another 40. Taiwan didn't become a democracy until 1996.

Taiwan's economic growth rate since 1990 is virtually identical to China's. The only difference is that Taiwan had a massive head start in terms of industrial capital and infrastructure, because Taiwan spent a century as a forward operating base for the Japanese and American colonial and neocolonial empires.

/The Brits did not "colonise all of China"
//They colonised Singapore and Hong Kong, and an archipelago of concessions in port cities and used them to exert economic dominance over China
///Money flowed out of China, into HK, and from HK into the Empire.

Are you for this secret law stripping Hong Kongers of their rights? Or against it?

Against it, of course. But it doesn't really matter what I think about it, does it? I'm not involved. I'm more interested in the role my own country is playing. Aren't you?

You are all for anything that someone else does.


He's just trying to sound reasonable before he makes another pro-China post, emphasizing shades of gray. To convince you that the largest fascist dictatorship in the history of the world is using peaceful means to bring peace to HK, just like any peaceful democracy would use peaceful means to suppress free speech, imprison without trials, etc.

Wait
 
2020-06-30 6:41:28 AM  

hestheone: "....law would criminalize offenses such as secession, subversion against the central Chinese government, terrorism, and colluding with foreign forces."

How could that not have already been criminal offenses?


Because Hong Kong was treated like a separate country under its own law, which allowed for things like freedom of speech and assembly as it existed under the British. In an actual democracy you have to tolerate quite a bit of pushback from the people.
They were the victim of a water war and the original conflict-avoiding deal was that they'd remain semi independent. The hope is that this would rub off on China and make them more moderate.
...But socialist gonna communist, and now someone who complains about unfair treatment can be charged with "subversion". Marching against Chinese abuses is terrorism and succession.  Words no longer have the same meaning so they can whisk you away to a re-education camp if you refuse to fall in line with the party.

/A utopia on fark, a dystopia to the remaining free world.
 
2020-06-30 6:44:56 AM  
So, should we send them tens of billions of ping pong balls?

Why don't we laugh at "Second Amendment Solutions"?

Registration is a necessary precursor to confisgation.

Confisgation is a necessary precursor to genocide.

Lets see how well things turn out over there.

/Not giving up my guns
//they can't find them all
///brushes off his signed copy of John Ross's "Unintended Consequences"
 
2020-06-30 6:46:03 AM  

Langdon_777: I went back and looked - our resident Chinese bot hasn't made a comment in this thread.

Looking back on it, England should never have given back Hong Kong, they should have said "Ummm No, now what are you going to do about it?"


On one hand, China developed nukes in 1964 and ICBMs in the 80s and the stability of the CCP continued to rise year after year. On the other hand Britain's empire was in its death throes and it couldn't wage a war against China even if it wanted to. The third problem is that the part of HK that Britain actually owned is not self sustaining and the lease ran out on the new territories so there was nothing Britain could do while China could either invade at any point or stop food from reaching British controlled areas and watch as they literally starved to death. Also there was a growing quagmire between a movement for HK independence from both powers and people who wanted to return to China. So they went to the CCP and said, "Since you want it so bad, here's all of HK, it's your problem now. Just let us pretend that we are bowing out with dignity and care about the people in HK (who we actually care about so little we won't allow them to become British citizens and emigrate to the U.K.)"
 
2020-06-30 6:48:12 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2020-06-30 6:58:26 AM  

Animatronik: pkjun: Boojum2k: But all the authoritarian regimes in the last couple of centuries have had one identical practice to begin with. Disarm the population for "safety."

Well, except for all of those who rely on a heavily armed partisan paramilitary to enforce their rule, which are globally much more common than those who have disarmed the population.

And come to think of it, most of the countries that have disarmed their populations are wealthy, peaceful and democratic countries, many of which have higher quality of life rankings and better democratic health indicators than the US does.

Sorry, yeah, anyway, back to shaking your head at China for crushing Hong Kong protests with like a quarter of the fury American cops have unleashed on American citizens over the past month.

You're always so predictable.

One or two reasonable-sounding posts, then you start posting bullshiat about how the CCP and its minions are basically similar to other peaceful democracies etc. etc  etc.

There is no democracy today that remotely approximates human rights abuses in China.  Stop making invidious comparisons and spreading lies, China Tool.


"I agree with some of your opinions but disagree with other ones. Clearly this is evidence you are Chinese spy using insidious mind control tactics to confuse and fool the West through comments on a linkblog frequented by like two hundred people."
 
2020-06-30 6:59:01 AM  

phamwaa: Once the RPG comes out, game over.

/or the Predator drone; your choice


Once, someone in the fire department asked my wife why she had a British anti-tank weapon in the back of her car.  Her response:  It was too damned heavy to carry it up and down the stairs every weekend.

This is why I love her.  Well, that, and that she let me store a frigging rocket launcher in her car...

/Still waxes rhapsodic when watching "A Bridge Too Far" with the kids
 
2020-06-30 7:00:03 AM  
fark China, fark the Chinese government.  fark xi.
 
2020-06-30 7:06:53 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: John Hopoate: Taiwan take note - you're next.

Here in NZ and around the world we sell land to Chinese interests instead of granting then long term leases, so stupid.

Some nations recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign country. Hong Kong was not. So Taiwan is in a more powerful position.


No country in the world will defend Taiwan if it is taken over by China.
 
2020-06-30 7:09:47 AM  

poodebunker: erik-k: Underwater Bystander: I doubt the citizens of Hong Kong are going to submit quietly. Will be very interesting watch these coming days.

Unfortunately, China will get away with this for the same reason they probably won't put up much of a fight: covid.

There's a reason that the authoritarian dictatorship that is the CCP is doing this NOW - anyone that would've gotten in the way is now mired in fighting Covid and double digit unemployment and 10/20/30 percent crashes in GDP.

And here in lies the hidden reason covid was unleashed.
Always look under the blanket when stuff is too bizarre to fathom.
The snafu was it made it's way to the biggest dipcrap mentality peoples of our great US of A... non mask wearing orange man believing morans...I doubt the Chinese gov really meant to kill the world, they just wanted Hong Kong in their clutches and other countries were the collateral damage that happened.

/I hate this Earth
//Won't be sad when my days on this poop show of a planet end
///3 × 1 Billion sick of EVERYTHING


You've a farking idiot.
 
2020-06-30 7:10:37 AM  

Boojum2k: erik-k: Boojum2k: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Ah, you have some boot polish on your lip. Just off to the side.

Keep wanking. SURELY one of these days angry civilians with guns will stop government oppression (as opposed to the historical norm of enthusiastically joining in it).

Just like how SURELY one of these days a random unprepared civilian with a gun will actually stop a mass shooting.

Mass shootings have been stopped by an armed bystander before.

But all the authoritarian regimes in the last couple of centuries have had one identical practice to begin with. Disarm the population for "safety."

Don't be surprised when the bootheel you're licking now smashes you in the face later.


You've a farking idiot as well.
 
2020-06-30 7:14:22 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Bennie Crabtree: John Hopoate: Taiwan take note - you're next.

Here in NZ and around the world we sell land to Chinese interests instead of granting then long term leases, so stupid.

Some nations recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign country. Hong Kong was not. So Taiwan is in a more powerful position.

No country in the world will defend Taiwan if it is taken over by China.


Not with Trump as President. Bunker boy isn't starting a war with a nuclear power unless he's pushed into it by Congress.

China needs to be darn sure of itself though. Invading an island and maintaining a supply chain across a contested channel isn't easy, and the longer the fight goes on the more likely it becomes that America decides to intervene, at which point China would have no achievable war aims. They need to take the island in one go, whether that's because they decapitate the KMT and seize all of Taiwan in a matter of hours as a fait accompli or whether that's because because the Taiwanese accept reunification and don't resist.

But China is in no hurry. Why would they be? It's not like Taiwan is going anywhere, and the richer China gets the more closely integrated Taiwan will become purely through the force of capitalism.
 
2020-06-30 7:15:20 AM  

pkjun: Tyrone Slothrop: Bennie Crabtree: John Hopoate: Taiwan take note - you're next.

Here in NZ and around the world we sell land to Chinese interests instead of granting then long term leases, so stupid.

Some nations recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign country. Hong Kong was not. So Taiwan is in a more powerful position.

No country in the world will defend Taiwan if it is taken over by China.

Not with Trump as President. Bunker boy isn't starting a war with a nuclear power unless he's pushed into it by Congress.

China needs to be darn sure of itself though. Invading an island and maintaining a supply chain across a contested channel isn't easy, and the longer the fight goes on the more likely it becomes that America decides to intervene, at which point China would have no achievable war aims. They need to take the island in one go, whether that's because they decapitate the KMT and seize all of Taiwan in a matter of hours as a fait accompli or whether that's because because the Taiwanese accept reunification and don't resist.

But China is in no hurry. Why would they be? It's not like Taiwan is going anywhere, and the richer China gets the more closely integrated Taiwan will become purely through the force of capitalism.


Lol "the KMT" look at pkjun here posting from 1977
 
2020-06-30 7:17:01 AM  

pkjun: pkjun: Me so thorny: erik-k: pedrop357: Really too bad Hong Kong residents are disarmed.

Not once since the invention of automatic weapons has this gun-wanker fantasy ever happened in real life. Only once before then did something remotely resembling it happen, and without the clandestine support of a major Continental power (and the incredible handicap to the British of being six weeks' sail from supplies and reinforcements) the Revolution would've likely been crushed by 1778.

But surely THIS time the civilian pea shooters would've made the difference. M-hmm *wanking motion*

Kaiser Wilhelm allegedly offered to support Mexico if they wanted to take Texas back during WW1. The best guess as to why they didn't take him up on it was how heavily armed the Texans were. So, maybe twice.

I mean that and the fact that the US was an industrial juggernaut that was about to pour an average of ten thousand soldiers a day into Europe, while Mexico was wracked by civil war and unable to put down bandit armies that rarely numbered more than five to ten thousand raggedy-ass cowboys.

That might have had something to do with it.

But it could have also been that Texans are rootin-tootin six-shootin sons of guns. That might have been it too.

Like...do Texans actually learn that it was their six-shootin' rough-ridin' cowpokes who made the Mexicans decide not to invade America in 1917?

In 1914, a US Navy officer was mad that some of his drunk sailors trespassing on a Mexican base in Tampico were temporarily arrested and detained for questioning before being returned to the US fleet, so he demanded a formal state apology and a 21-gun salute to the American flag. He got the apology but not the salute, so the United States Navy invaded and occupied Veracruz for five months as punishment.

And Mexico could do absolutely nothing about it.

A few years later, Pancho Villa raided a border town in Texas, so General Pershing led a major expedition through Mexico on a manhunt, brushing aside Mexican complaints about its sovereignty as America occupied huge swathes of northern Mexico in a futile attempt to find the bandit revolutionary.

And again, Mexico could do nothing about it.

And then America decides to enter WWI and goes full Hulk Mode, training and equipping and deploying 300,000 fresh soldiers every month.

And Germany is like "hey uh Mexico, America looks pretty scary right now, any chance you want to take 'em on 1:1 right now I'll let you keep anything you take".

And Mexico is like "lol wtf dude I'm just trying to keep the same government in power for six months without getting invaded, no way I'm invading America, how do you even imagine that would work, we're afraid to sneeze too loudly because it might trigger a third American occupation in five years, those guys are terrifying."

And Texans are apparently like "if it weren't for our six-shooters Mexico would have conquered us in 1917?" Is this a thing they're taught?


The Texas education system rivals North Korea's in the propaganda it tells about itself.
 
2020-06-30 7:18:03 AM  

Cajnik: Hong Kong is the 2020 version of 1968 Czechoslovakia. We never had any intention of helping, it's all political bluffing meant for the domestic audience.


Or 1956 Hungary.
 
2020-06-30 7:19:34 AM  

Langdon_777: I went back and looked - our resident Chinese bot hasn't made a comment in this thread.

Looking back on it, England should never have given back Hong Kong, they should have said "Ummm No, now what are you going to do about it?"


Why don't you go ahead and take out a $30,000 loan from your bank, and then go and tell them to get shafted when the due date for repayment comes around. See how well it turns out for you. (Narrator: "It does not turn out well.")

I've said it in past HK threads, and I'll say it again. You can't cheer the dismantling of the British Empire with one breath, and decry China gaining back HK with the next. Colonialism is colonialism, there is no middle ground.

Do I personally like that China is taking back HK? Definitely not. I wish HK could enjoy forever the freedoms that it has enjoyed, but the lease terms are absolutely clear, and China is doing essentially nothing wrong in slowly phasing in the legal framework in time for 2047. In theory they could have sent the troops in in 1998, and the world would have done nothing.
 
2020-06-30 7:23:44 AM  

way south: hestheone: "....law would criminalize offenses such as secession, subversion against the central Chinese government, terrorism, and colluding with foreign forces."

How could that not have already been criminal offenses?

Because Hong Kong was treated like a separate country under its own law, which allowed for things like freedom of speech and assembly as it existed under the British. In an actual democracy you have to tolerate quite a bit of pushback from the people.
They were the victim of a water war and the original conflict-avoiding deal was that they'd remain semi independent. The hope is that this would rub off on China and make them more moderate.
...But socialist gonna communist, and now someone who complains about unfair treatment can be charged with "subversion". Marching against Chinese abuses is terrorism and succession.  Words no longer have the same meaning so they can whisk you away to a re-education camp if you refuse to fall in line with the party.

/A utopia on fark, a dystopia to the remaining free world.


China is an authoritarian capitalist country. If it wasn't, the rest of the world wouldn't be so eager to do business with them.
 
2020-06-30 7:24:52 AM  

pkjun: pkjun: Tyrone Slothrop: Bennie Crabtree: John Hopoate: Taiwan take note - you're next.

Here in NZ and around the world we sell land to Chinese interests instead of granting then long term leases, so stupid.

Some nations recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign country. Hong Kong was not. So Taiwan is in a more powerful position.

No country in the world will defend Taiwan if it is taken over by China.

Not with Trump as President. Bunker boy isn't starting a war with a nuclear power unless he's pushed into it by Congress.

China needs to be darn sure of itself though. Invading an island and maintaining a supply chain across a contested channel isn't easy, and the longer the fight goes on the more likely it becomes that America decides to intervene, at which point China would have no achievable war aims. They need to take the island in one go, whether that's because they decapitate the KMT and seize all of Taiwan in a matter of hours as a fait accompli or whether that's because because the Taiwanese accept reunification and don't resist.

But China is in no hurry. Why would they be? It's not like Taiwan is going anywhere, and the richer China gets the more closely integrated Taiwan will become purely through the force of capitalism.

Lol "the KMT" look at pkjun here posting from 1977


Oh those pieces of shiat are still around, sold out to the CCP when they realized it was the only way to regain power in Taiwan.
 
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