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(The Detroit_News)   "America faces existential issues that merit free-wheeling discussion, vigorous debate and an open examination of diverse views." That, of course, is never gonna happen   (detroitnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, President of the United States, United States, Want, Donald Trump, Democracy, United States Constitution, Racism, Freedom of speech  
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784 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jun 2020 at 11:05 AM (34 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-29 9:52:26 AM  
...That, of course, is never gonna happen

It could happen.
 
2020-06-29 10:17:31 AM  
The power of the word "racist" is so devastating and applied with such recklessness that it makes the consequences of speaking too dangerous.

If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.
 
2020-06-29 10:20:42 AM  

koder: The power of the word "racist" is so devastating and applied with such recklessness that it makes the consequences of speaking too dangerous.

If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.


ProTip:  Don't start your argument with "I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro."

It's kind of a tell that you're a racist.
 
2020-06-29 10:25:54 AM  

koder: If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.

If you don't check all the boxes on whatever purity test you're up against, you could easily be branded a racist.
 
2020-06-29 10:41:05 AM  

Destructor: koder: If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.
If you don't check all the boxes on whatever purity test you're up against, you could easily be branded a racist.


What's there to defend over the next few months that needs input that could be labeled racist? If you support any of Trump's or the Republican platform, you'll correctly be labeled a racist, because what part of it doesn't have racial undertones? Even their covid handling has been racist from the beginning. A farking virus. That's not anyone's fault but theirs. Plus, they have gone full fascist, and there is no way you'll scrub that stank off in any discourse until they're out of office.

This is the bed white people made when they elected a racist.
 
2020-06-29 10:55:52 AM  

koder: If you support any of Trump's or the Republican platform, you'll correctly be labeled a racist, because what part of it doesn't have racial undertones? Even their covid handling has been racist from the beginning


Hmm. I'm scratching my head trying to think of something... The only that comes close is the trade war with China? I mean, I'm not saying it's a genius move or anything, has been well handled, or is effective in the long run. But, that doesn't seem racist at all.

I could list the tax-cut. But I know how liberals are with that sort of classist stuff, so I'll leave it off the list.

There were a few other ones that won't have the same general approval among conservatives. Is moving the Israeli embassy racist?
 
2020-06-29 11:02:38 AM  

Destructor: koder: If you support any of Trump's or the Republican platform, you'll correctly be labeled a racist, because what part of it doesn't have racial undertones? Even their covid handling has been racist from the beginning

Hmm. I'm scratching my head trying to think of something... The only that comes close is the trade war with China? I mean, I'm not saying it's a genius move or anything, has been well handled, or is effective in the long run. But, that doesn't seem racist at all.

I could list the tax-cut. But I know how liberals are with that sort of classist stuff, so I'll leave it off the list.

There were a few other ones that won't have the same general approval among conservatives. Is moving the Israeli embassy racist?


See, you have plenty of things to talk about that aren't racist. What were you complaining about again?
 
2020-06-29 11:07:56 AM  
Ah, the old "it's unfair that my racist opinions are called racist" complaint. That's always appreciated by the racists.
 
2020-06-29 11:08:12 AM  
Made it to second paragraph, stopped reading there.

It's a whiny article about repubs being stifled on social media.
 
2020-06-29 11:08:26 AM  
Did the idiot writing that article mention the lieing, name calling, conspiracy-inventing, libelous president ONCE in that screed?
 
2020-06-29 11:08:28 AM  
This is the guy that wrote an article titled, "Whitmer's Dictatorship Continues".

Seems like a reasonable bruh.
 
2020-06-29 11:09:56 AM  

koder: See, you have plenty of things to talk about that aren't racist. What were you complaining about again?


Oh, nothing specifically, I guess. Just... you should be able to discuss stuff. Like, statue toppling, etc., without being called a racist for wanting to preserve a statue of one of the founders.
 
2020-06-29 11:11:03 AM  
"But we can't talk about that."  accept for an op-ed in a major paper.  what a whiny fark.
 
2020-06-29 11:11:18 AM  
except
 
2020-06-29 11:11:45 AM  

twistedsteel5252: Made it to second paragraph, stopped reading there.

It's a whiny article about repubs being stifled on social media.


Makes sense because the other columns I've read from this guy make him sound like a whiny Republican.

Guess the Detroit News holds onto him for "balance"?
 
2020-06-29 11:12:28 AM  
I'm going to lecture you about how cancel culture and how no one can speak their mind freely, especially me, from my privileged position as a columnist in a major newspaper.
 
2020-06-29 11:14:33 AM  
Ooooh!  Diverse views?  Let's see who they mean.

FTA: The mobs who are looting and burning the First Amendment don't really want to hear from you.

Ahhhh ok so by "diverse views" you mean like Nazis, not like different legitimate communities.

"I want to kill your whole family lineage and set up an ethnostate... counterpoint?"

Oh also, because people oppose your views doesn't mean your first amendment tights are being infringed.  It's a right to say stupid shiat not an obligation for others to sit quietly while you rattle on about Teh Jewz.
 
2020-06-29 11:15:38 AM  

Destructor: koder: If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.
If you don't check all the boxes on whatever purity test you're up against, you could easily be branded a racist.


So? Fox News is still in operation, despite a long history of racism. Plenty of right-wingers who have been consistently racist for decades still have huge platforms, even in the mainstream.

The real issue here is that some people get the sads when someone calls them out on their bullshiat and are trying to silence those people.
 
2020-06-29 11:17:26 AM  

eiger: Destructor: koder: If whatever you have to say can be labeled racist, either figure out how to say it differently or just shut the fark up for now. Whatever it is, it can wait a few months.
If you don't check all the boxes on whatever purity test you're up against, you could easily be branded a racist.

So? Fox News is still in operation, despite a long history of racism. Plenty of right-wingers who have been consistently racist for decades still have huge platforms, even in the mainstream.

The real issue here is that some people get the sads when someone calls them out on their bullshiat and are trying to silence those people.


And to be clear, this is not just right-wingers. I see a lot of privileged liberal and even leftist journalists and pundits who are in a virtual panic over the fact that the normies are actually calling them out. They are basically trying to shut people up who they don't want to hear from. Which is hilarious because their entire argument is based in assertions about free speech.
 
2020-06-29 11:17:47 AM  
Why can't we choose the more centrist path?

i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2020-06-29 11:18:01 AM  

Destructor: ...That, of course, is never gonna happen

It could happen.


It will only happen when a certain elephant-represented political party has been crushed out of the public spotlight.

We as Americans agree on a lot more than we disagree on, but having one party that is actively working to limit the rights of non-party members, whose members reliably and blatantly lie about their motivations, and who are so hypocritical that even they can't keep a straight face about things is not welcome at the table in a discussion about 'freedom and equality'.

Crush the GOP into powder...burn the ashes, and bury them in the time capsule of history.  Then we can have a civil discussion.
 
2020-06-29 11:18:32 AM  
I mean...

... if your complaint is that it's unfair that people are accusing you of being racist, maaaaaybe posting an op-ed that's basically a Youtube-style numbered list of "top ten most disingenuous and boilerplate stock arguments of the American Nazi Party and KKK" isn't really the best approach to trying to solve your problem?

Like, not even pointing out that the writer of this clearly is, in fact, racist here.  I'm pointing out that this argument isn't going to help his case.  The only actual logical point he's making is proved untrue by contradiction: he's biatching about the media not publishing opinions he agrees with in an opinion piece in a newspaper.  So there's actually convincing anyone of anything out the window.  And the rest of it is, as mentioned, just meaningless talking points distributed by literal card-carrying nazis for use literally every time they're called out for anything, so all you're doing by repeating them is signalling that you're a card-carrying Nazi, which I'll charitably assume probably... isn't true?  Maybe?

Seems self-defeating basically.
 
2020-06-29 11:19:09 AM  
first amendment tights.
 
2020-06-29 11:21:33 AM  
They're afraid that one wrong look or word might have outsized, unfair consequences? So ... they have to experience something black people have to deal with every day of their lives?
 
2020-06-29 11:22:51 AM  
"Discussion" usually means that there are two equally valid viewpoints, and a bridge can be constructed to allow congress-to allow a meaningful compromise.

Here's a shiat sandwich.
I'd prefer ham, rye.
Ok, here's a shiat sandwich with ham on rye.
No, thank you.

What's the compromise position against racism, tribalism, xenophobia?

Just the tip?  A little bit is OK?
 
2020-06-29 11:24:41 AM  

eiger: So? Fox News is still in operation, despite a long history of racism. Plenty of right-wingers who have been consistently racist for decades still have huge platforms, even in the mainstream.

The real issue here is that some people get the sads when someone calls them out on their bullshiat and are trying to silence those people.


Because it's a unilateral weapon. You pull out the "Racist" label, and you're basically saying, "I'm now done communicating with you, because you're abjectly incorrigible."

I'm not saying it should never be deployed. But it does tend to be a conversation stopper.
 
2020-06-29 11:26:07 AM  
So, actually gunning down African-Americans for the raw funsies is good, solid police work and totally protected.  But calling somebody a racist is so beyond the pale it requires the extermination of the speaker's entire gene-line.  Got it.
 
2020-06-29 11:26:35 AM  
Wow, such a strong supporter of open and frank discussion of the issues. I bet his defense of Kapernick was something special.

Also, if you just read two of this asshat's oppinion columns, you may need a palate cleanser.
 
2020-06-29 11:27:00 AM  
Voters of all races who are sickened by the unchecked violence in the streets of America's big cities, appalled that Democratic mayors and governors have ceded private property to armed insurgents and await an articulation of how and when it will end may find their answer in the president's hard-line bluster.

Yea, no. Trump's hard line bluster is a big reason why these protests are still going on, and why extreme opinions are getting traction. If you don't like the more extreme messages coming out of the protests, the best way to address it is to vote against Trump, not for him.
 
2020-06-29 11:28:41 AM  
Look, I have a black friend and I don't want to sound 'racist' but, I just want my outdated and bigoted view points to be considered as valid criticism. That's all.
 
2020-06-29 11:28:56 AM  

Destructor: eiger: So? Fox News is still in operation, despite a long history of racism. Plenty of right-wingers who have been consistently racist for decades still have huge platforms, even in the mainstream.

The real issue here is that some people get the sads when someone calls them out on their bullshiat and are trying to silence those people.

Because it's a unilateral weapon. You pull out the "Racist" label, and you're basically saying, "I'm now done communicating with you, because you're abjectly incorrigible."

I'm not saying it should never be deployed. But it does tend to be a conversation stopper.


I have a solution.

Respond with "I'm not a racist, but...." and then present your opinion as though it were self-evident, irrefutable fact.

It'll work, believe me.
 
2020-06-29 11:29:56 AM  

Destructor: eiger: So? Fox News is still in operation, despite a long history of racism. Plenty of right-wingers who have been consistently racist for decades still have huge platforms, even in the mainstream.

The real issue here is that some people get the sads when someone calls them out on their bullshiat and are trying to silence those people.

Because it's a unilateral weapon. You pull out the "Racist" label, and you're basically saying, "I'm now done communicating with you, because you're abjectly incorrigible."

I'm not saying it should never be deployed. But it does tend to be a conversation stopper.


Really? I've never noticed that. Typically when someone is called a racist, they become far more voluble and intent on proving their (often racist) point.

This "argument" is one racists use to prevent people from calling them racists.
 
2020-06-29 11:30:01 AM  
Wait, hang on a minute here. I want to hear all about why we should keep this statue up of Teddy. Tell me more about your values.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-29 11:32:08 AM  

Bastet1000: Wait, hang on a minute here. I want to hear all about why we should keep this statue up of Teddy. Tell me more about your values.

[Fark user image image 382x255]


The best people can offer for that is "taking it down is erasing history".  Which is bullshiat, because history exists regardless of public statuary.  There are no statues of my grandparents, but they still existed.
 
2020-06-29 11:32:13 AM  

El_Dan: Voters of all races who are sickened by the unchecked violence in the streets of America's big cities, appalled that Democratic mayors and governors have ceded private property to armed insurgents and await an articulation of how and when it will end may find their answer in the president's hard-line bluster.

Yea, no. Trump's hard line bluster is a big reason why these protests are still going on, and why extreme opinions are getting traction. If you don't like the more extreme messages coming out of the protests, the best way to address it is to vote against Trump, not for him.


You would think a columnist would know that "bluster" is usually synonymous with "hot air".
 
2020-06-29 11:33:27 AM  

Bastet1000: Wait, hang on a minute here. I want to hear all about why we should keep this statue up of Teddy. Tell me more about your values.

[Fark user image 382x255]


Teddy is helping those people. We should honor him for taking up such a burden.
 
2020-06-29 11:36:22 AM  

SecondaryControl: "Discussion" usually means that there are two equally valid viewpoints, and a bridge can be constructed to allow congress-to allow a meaningful compromise.

Here's a shiat sandwich.
I'd prefer ham, rye.
Ok, here's a shiat sandwich with ham on rye.
No, thank you.

What's the compromise position against racism, tribalism, xenophobia?

Just the tip?  A little bit is OK?


You have to reserve yourself the right to tell people their opinion is shiat and that they're bad people for thinking that way, and leave it at that. Not every opinion is valid, and we need to stop acting as if they are.
 
2020-06-29 11:36:47 AM  

eiger: This "argument" is one racists use to prevent people from calling them racists.


Depends on the argument, I suppose.

One effect is it does cause some "turtle-ing"; maybe not stopping any sort of development but certainly slowing it down. Isn't it always best to give your opponent plenty of rope?---  See? I can't even finish that sentence. Privileged, checked.

/Discuss.
 
2020-06-29 11:37:31 AM  

eiger: Bastet1000: Wait, hang on a minute here. I want to hear all about why we should keep this statue up of Teddy. Tell me more about your values.

[Fark user image 382x255]

Teddy is helping those people. We should honor him for taking up such a burden.


He's helping them?  No, they are carrying his gear and following them.  He couldn't even give the African guy a pair of pants.  Nude statues after all.
 
2020-06-29 11:38:12 AM  

Destructor: Because it's a unilateral weapon. You pull out the "Racist" label, and you're basically saying, "I'm now done communicating with you, because you're abjectly incorrigible."
I'm not saying it should never be deployed. But it does tend to be a conversation stopper.


The racist label can only be applied to things that are racist.  The abjectly incorrigible part usually comes as a result of doubling down on that racism, or pretending it never was.  You know, when people are "Just Sayin'", or when they have "Statistics from The Institute for White Preservation".. yadda yadda.

So calling someone's actions racist in the past happens all the time, and apologies and mea-culpas happen all the time.  The big "shut downs" happen when there's no point in talking to someone who will a) clearly not change their ignorance and it's toxic to interact with them or b) are already being disingenuous and are treating everyone else like suckers for their intellectual amusement. The "Ironic Nazis" such as they are.

Yeah nobody's going to bother with either of those groups.  If you have been a racist in the past, but you're trying hard to change now, you won't find a lot of shutdowns.
 
2020-06-29 11:38:21 AM  

Destructor: eiger: This "argument" is one racists use to prevent people from calling them racists.

Depends on the argument, I suppose.

One effect is it does cause some "turtle-ing"; maybe not stopping any sort of development but certainly slowing it down. Isn't it always best to give your opponent plenty of rope?---  See? I can't even finish that sentence. Privileged, checked.

/Discuss.


Your dick shrinks into your torso whenever people call out your racist statements?
 
2020-06-29 11:39:57 AM  

rebelyell2006: Your dick shrinks into your torso whenever people call out your racist statements?


What's it supposed to do?
 
2020-06-29 11:42:02 AM  

Destructor: rebelyell2006: Your dick shrinks into your torso whenever people call out your racist statements?

What's it supposed to do?


I don't know, because I don't go around saying racist crap.
 
2020-06-29 11:42:50 AM  
It's because we are doing symbolic things again instead of fixing actual problems.  Yes, statues are problematic, but what about all the real issues?
 
2020-06-29 11:44:39 AM  

lectos: It's because we are doing symbolic things again instead of fixing actual problems.  Yes, statues are problematic, but what about all the real issues?


Addressing the statues is one element of addressing the problem.
 
2020-06-29 11:46:44 AM  

rebelyell2006: Destructor: rebelyell2006: Your dick shrinks into your torso whenever people call out your racist statements?

What's it supposed to do?

I don't know, because I don't go around saying racist crap.


I don't know at all.

But you make it sound like it might be worth experimenting. Just shout out random racist slurs and monitoring the situation for some sort of unusual dick activity.
 
2020-06-29 11:47:02 AM  
Is the red color of the the tape a reference to Red Pills?
 
2020-06-29 11:50:56 AM  

salvador.hardin: Wow, such a strong supporter of open and frank discussion of the issues. I bet his defense of Kapernick was something special.

Also, if you just read two of this asshat's oppinion columns, you may need a palate cleanser.


Thanks for posting that. I'm generally open to listening to arguments against judging people too quickly, and I'm in favor of keeping the difficult conversations we have to have around race nuanced, but seeing this same guy pushed an anti Kap piece means I can pretty safely ignore his opinion. If you will die on the hill of Nazi free speech but object to Americans speaking about racism then you aren't a speech advocate you're just a Nazi sympathizer.
 
2020-06-29 11:51:58 AM  

rebelyell2006: eiger: Bastet1000: Wait, hang on a minute here. I want to hear all about why we should keep this statue up of Teddy. Tell me more about your values.

[Fark user image 382x255]

Teddy is helping those people. We should honor him for taking up such a burden.

He's helping them?  No, they are carrying his gear and following them.  He couldn't even give the African guy a pair of pants.  Nude statues after all.


Too subtle? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki​/The_Whit​e_Man%27s_Burden

The poem was presented to TR by Kipling to help justify the annexation of the Philippines.

The "cool" image TR has somehow gotten on the internet has overshadowed a lot of his nasty ideas and actions.
 
2020-06-29 11:52:15 AM  

rebelyell2006: Destructor: eiger: This "argument" is one racists use to prevent people from calling them racists.

Depends on the argument, I suppose.

One effect is it does cause some "turtle-ing"; maybe not stopping any sort of development but certainly slowing it down. Isn't it always best to give your opponent plenty of rope?---  See? I can't even finish that sentence. Privileged, checked.

/Discuss.

Your dick shrinks into your torso whenever people call out your racist statements?


For people without dicks, it's an involuntary arrangement of the hair into a Karen style.
 
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