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(Den Of Geek)   Great, now being a Drow is a hate crime   (denofgeek.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Community, Chevy Chase, Yvette Nicole Brown, Dungeons & Dragons, Tropic Thunder, Ken Jeong, favorite episode of Community, Fantasy  
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3468 clicks; posted to Entertainment » and Geek » on 29 Jun 2020 at 8:06 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-28 9:23:52 PM  
Is it still OK to be a Droog?
 
2020-06-29 2:37:14 AM  
Tortollans: 'I believe we should trade with people of all races and creeds!  Except the Naga.  Horrible creatures!'
 
2020-06-29 2:48:40 AM  
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For sure the entertainment industry has a lot to reckon with. Hollywood famously works mostly through access and networking (with talent often irrelevant) and if you start with an in-group that's 100% white you're going to wind up with some structural disparities that will persist for a long time. If your business decisions run on "who do I owe favours to" and "who has the right connections", it doesn't matter how progressive your opinions are, the outcomes are going to to be inadvertently racist even if not deliberately racist.

Making the entertainment industry less racist would require some deep structural shifts away from a culture of nepotism where it's simply assumed anyone successful under 40 has parents and grandparents who are either in the industry and able to open some doors or who are rich enough to buy that access directly.

But that would be inconvenient, and would disadvantage the very people who would have any ability to make any sort of change happen.

On the other hand, they could take an episode or two of an off-the-air sitcom off streaming for a few months, or promise to re-cast a voice actor on a cartoon, and say something about "learning to be more sensitive 😌" or "doing our part to combat systemic racism 😇". Doing that shiat is free.
 
2020-06-29 4:02:02 AM  
I'm about as woke as they come, but I think this move - and the removal of the 30 Rock sixth season live show - is dumb. In both cases, they specifically address the overt racism and ridicule it. Hell, it's the entire premise of John Hamm's character in the 30 Rock sketch. And NBC got its lumps in that sketch, too.

Isn't it better to point and laugh at how stupid racism is than to erase all traces and pretend it never existed?

What's next? Dave Chappelle's Black Klansman?
 
2020-06-29 5:10:29 AM  
Luckily I just watched the episode the other day. Of all this woke shiat, this has to be the most ridiculous. He wasn't wearing blackface, he was in a costume of a fantasy creature.  And the actor isn't even white.

People are going to look back at this point in history and laugh. Either that or it's going to get even worse.
 
2020-06-29 7:57:41 AM  
Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.
 
2020-06-29 8:09:06 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.


Dressing up as a Drow isn't blackface.
 
2020-06-29 8:12:31 AM  
Where are we now on RDJ in Tropic Thunder?
 
2020-06-29 8:16:45 AM  

Beta Tested: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Dressing up as a Drow isn't blackface.


The drow were first invented to get around the rules when conventions started banning blackface. Almost everything interesting that's been done with them since has been mostly about breaking out of the original drow archetypes, sometimes explicitly.
 
2020-06-29 8:19:41 AM  

Alphax: Tortollans: 'I believe we should trade with people of all races and creeds!  Except the Naga.  Horrible creatures!'


Well, they're not wrong. The MAGA Naga literally owe their existence to a dark pact their power-hungry leader forged with an evil elder god.

Warbringers: Azshara
Youtube hndyTy3uiZM
 
2020-06-29 8:21:53 AM  
Didn't we we this thread with the same headline last week?
 
2020-06-29 8:22:13 AM  

Beta Tested: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Dressing up as a Drow isn't blackface.


Ignore him, he's just being a moron as usual.
 
2020-06-29 8:22:55 AM  
I disagree about removing the episode (because the blackface being unfortunate was straight-up part of the joke), but actually the initial depiction of drow was racist and reeeeeally black-face-ey specifically.

There is a reason that Pathfinder changed them from black to fluorescent purple and re-wrote their 'eeeeevil' schtick to be more alien and otherworldly and less 'degenerate, shiatty humans with an extra helping of sexual perversion' on like the first editing pass, and why even the legendarily obtuse WotC is actually belatedly following them now on at least the purple thing.

// I mean, good luck to whatever poor intern at Wizards gets that job, since they already fully committed to the ultimate setting of infinite, fractal racist stereotypes and unfortunate implications as the "default" for 5th edition where all the League play and modules is set.

// Change the default setting to Eberron, you cowards!
 
2020-06-29 8:24:02 AM  

Lochsteppe: Alphax: Tortollans: 'I believe we should trade with people of all races and creeds!  Except the Naga.  Horrible creatures!'

Well, they're not wrong. The MAGA Naga literally owe their existence to a dark pact their power-hungry leader forged with an evil elder god.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/hndyTy3u​iZM]


What about the Mind Flayers?   Isn't their entire culture based on slavery?
 
2020-06-29 8:27:19 AM  

Alphax: Tortollans: 'I believe we should trade with people of all races and creeds!  Except the Naga.  Horrible creatures!'


Rep grinding is so much easier with no have audio and Tool playing on the background
 
2020-06-29 8:29:14 AM  
PC culture run amok.
 
2020-06-29 8:29:33 AM  
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size


Guess they have take X-Men 2 down.
 
2020-06-29 8:31:51 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.


And that was presented in that actual episode, if you'd bothered to RTFA:

The potential poor taste and blackface implications of the makeup is immediately pointed out by the other characters with Shirley (Yvette Nicole Brown), who is a Woman of Color, saying, "So we're just going to ignore the hate crime, huh?" Chang responds, "I'm a dark elf or a drow."

When the Montagnards run out of Girondins and Dantonists to guillotine,  the more extreme Montagnards will go after the less extreme Montagnards.  Just ask Robespierre.

I think that's what we're seeing now.  The episode, based on the description above*, sounds to me like it's *AGAINST* blackface.   How can you to be against something without showing an example of it?  Hire a black actor to replace Ken Jeong with a black actor for those scenes?

You can't make a film about what bad guys the Nazis were without some of the actors dressing as Nazis.  You can't make a film or TV episode about how bad blackface is without portraying it on the screen.

I have to say, though, that I'm secretly enjoying this.  The morons are out in force, cancelling even their own in an effort to appear more pure than everyone else.   Either that, or they are so woefully ignorant of the history involved that they simply are clueless about how it looks to those who are aware of history.

In short, I think we can all agree that blackface is bad, right?  But if you erase the things that say it's bad along with those that don't, you no longer can point to why it's bad in the first place.  Which means in a generation or two, it'll make a comeback because no one will know why it's bad.

*I have not seen it, as Community just didn't do it for me.  YMMV.
 
2020-06-29 8:32:13 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.


Are you sure about that, Dave?
lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2020-06-29 8:32:55 AM  
Tyrone Slothrop: PC culture corporate pandering run amok.
 
2020-06-29 8:33:04 AM  

holdmybones: Didn't we we this thread with the same headline last week?


And we'll keep doing it until we get it right!
 
2020-06-29 8:35:12 AM  

Millennium: Beta Tested: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Dressing up as a Drow isn't blackface.

The drow were first invented to get around the rules when conventions started banning blackface. Almost everything interesting that's been done with them since has been mostly about breaking out of the original drow archetypes, sometimes explicitly.


The drow were first invented because Gary Gygax wanted to throw a curveball to players going through the "Against the Giants" modules who were used to elves coming from Tolkien's mythology.
 
2020-06-29 8:35:26 AM  
Speaking of outrage in the realm of fantasy, how farking outrageous was it that "regular" people played little people in the Lord of the Rings films? Warwick Davis and Billy Barty are out on the street because of Spider-Man and the asshole from Goonies. Ok, Billy Barty's been dead for a while now but the outrage stands.
 
2020-06-29 8:37:15 AM  
Meanwhile, in Elder Scrolls Online it sometimes feels like the US in the 1860s. I still think the most farked up part is that the devs had the 9 races split up into 3 factions of 3 races each to fight over the throne and, coincidentally, the story had the Dark Elves, who love to enslave other races, agree to the outlawing of slavery and freed the Argonians (lizard people), who then decided it'd be a good idea to form an alliance with the god damn Dark Elves.

The hell kind of moronic writing is that?

"Sorry about the centuries of brutal enslavement. We cool?"
"Sure! No hard feelings! We even think you'd be great at ruling along with us! Let's team up!"
"Brilliant!"
 
2020-06-29 8:37:23 AM  

Snapper Carr: Tyrone Slothrop: PC culture corporate pandering run amok.


Same thing.
 
2020-06-29 8:37:32 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Are you sure about that, Dave?
[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 200x187]


LL's character is a right winger. He doesn't give a shiat about blackface.
 
2020-06-29 8:39:48 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Snapper Carr: Tyrone Slothrop: PC culture corporate pandering run amok.

Same thing.


Not really.  One is honest concern with a perceived injustice.  The other is a cynical attempt to profit from said concern by appealing to those who share it.
 
2020-06-29 8:40:17 AM  

Mugato: Speaking of outrage in the realm of fantasy, how farking outrageous was it that "regular" people played little people in the Lord of the Rings films? Warwick Davis and Billy Barty are out on the street because of Spider-Man and the asshole from Goonies. Ok, Billy Barty's been dead for a while now but the outrage stands.


Techically Elijah Wood may not be a midget\dwarf, but the dude is really small.
 
2020-06-29 8:41:59 AM  

Eravior: Meanwhile, in Elder Scrolls Online it sometimes feels like the US in the 1860s. I still think the most farked up part is that the devs had the 9 races split up into 3 factions of 3 races each to fight over the throne and, coincidentally, the story had the Dark Elves, who love to enslave other races, agree to the outlawing of slavery and freed the Argonians (lizard people), who then decided it'd be a good idea to form an alliance with the god damn Dark Elves.

The hell kind of moronic writing is that?

"Sorry about the centuries of brutal enslavement. We cool?"
"Sure! No hard feelings! We even think you'd be great at ruling along with us! Let's team up!"
"Brilliant!"


Historical precedence: African slaves in America embracing the religion of their masters.
 
2020-06-29 8:43:26 AM  
OMG a shiatty episode of a shiatty show is being removed, I'm boycotting
       .....White farker 2020..............
 
2020-06-29 8:45:13 AM  

Millennium: The drow were first invented to get around the rules when conventions started banning blackface. Almost everything interesting that's been done with them since has been mostly about breaking out of the original drow archetypes, sometimes explicitly.


I genuinely can't tell whether this is a joke, or if  it is something people believe believe.  This is where we are :(
 
2020-06-29 8:45:56 AM  

Mugato: Tyrone Slothrop: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Are you sure about that, Dave?
[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 200x187]

LL's character is a right winger. He doesn't give a shiat about blackface.


Yes, I know. But I enjoy posting Papa Lazarou any chance I can get.

\watch The League of Gentlmen
\\which has nothing to do with The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
\\\are you local?
 
2020-06-29 8:49:24 AM  
General Mills is removing the Fruit from Fruit Loops.
 
2020-06-29 8:50:50 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Millennium: Beta Tested: Lucky LaRue: Stop the faux-outrage and contorted attempts at justification, people.  Blackface is wrong. Period.  End of discussion.

Dressing up as a Drow isn't blackface.

The drow were first invented to get around the rules when conventions started banning blackface. Almost everything interesting that's been done with them since has been mostly about breaking out of the original drow archetypes, sometimes explicitly.

The drow were first invented because Gary Gygax wanted to throw a curveball to players going through the "Against the Giants" modules who were used to elves coming from Tolkien's mythology.


I thought they were invented because TSR couldn't get/didn't want to pay for the rights to Moorcock's Melniboneans

/The first Drizzt was an albino
cdn3-www.comingsoon.netView Full Size
 
2020-06-29 8:54:27 AM  
Meh.  I think this one is an excess of caution, but so what?    The slope isn't that slippery, and it's not a big deal.  If the joke had been anything deeper than, "Ha!  Casual racism exists and we're pointing that out with something that only looks sort of like it!" maybe I'd care enough to fight about it.
 
2020-06-29 8:57:37 AM  

holdmybones: Didn't we we this thread with the same headline last week?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-29 8:58:05 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: The slope isn't that slippery, and it's not a big deal.


The slope is very slippery (that's racist BTW) and erasing someone's art for some bullshiat trend that people are going to laugh at in a couple years is a big deal.
 
2020-06-29 8:58:33 AM  
The Kids in the Hall - Tony Comes to Dinner
Youtube qkDRZrZhE-Y
Blackface isn't the same as wearing makeup. The point of it was to be a ridiculous caricature of a black person. We've lost the nuance in the rush to condemn and cancel.
 
2020-06-29 8:59:26 AM  
But they still show cop shows.
 
2020-06-29 9:02:34 AM  

Mugato: LowbrowDeluxe: The slope isn't that slippery, and it's not a big deal.

The slope is very slippery (that's racist BTW) and erasing someone's art for some bullshiat trend that people are going to laugh at in a couple years is a big deal.


Honestly, I'm only shocked that you weren't in at the start of the thread pre-emptively crying about it.  It's not erased, they stopped airing it.   Nice of you to show your true colors with the second half, though.
 
2020-06-29 9:03:18 AM  

Mugato: Speaking of outrage in the realm of fantasy, how farking outrageous was it that "regular" people played little people in the Lord of the Rings films? Warwick Davis and Billy Barty are out on the street because of Spider-Man and the asshole from Goonies. Ok, Billy Barty's been dead for a while now but the outrage stands.


Fark user imageView Full Size


It still stings.
 
2020-06-29 9:06:27 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: It's not erased, they stopped airing it.


That's a distinction without a difference.  If you can't access it anymore, it's effectively erased.
 
2020-06-29 9:09:05 AM  
If you go dig out the 3.0/3.5 open copyright document, or submission criteria for Dungeon, even way back in 2000 they were smart enough to put in language about "no references to real-world ethnicities, races, or cultures".

They should retcon the Drow to have some alternating white & black areas, like the Frank Gorshin character on that great episode of original Trek.
 
2020-06-29 9:10:46 AM  

dittybopper: LowbrowDeluxe: It's not erased, they stopped airing it.

That's a distinction without a difference.  If you can't access it anymore, it's effectively erased.


You'll get over it, rooftop.
 
2020-06-29 9:11:46 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: [external-content.duckduckgo.com image 320x480]

Guess they have take X-Men 2 down.


It's no longer X-Men, we just call the mutants now.
This has solved sexism!

Mugato: LowbrowDeluxe: The slope isn't that slippery, and it's not a big deal.

The slope is very slippery (that's racist BTW) and erasing someone's art for some bullshiat trend that people are going to laugh at in a couple years is a big deal.


I think people were laughing until it became serious.  Big agencies were giving small victories to cancel culture and now its become a wave so large that they've just stopped advertising and creating entirely.   There's billions of dollars in damage being done to the industry as we speak and no amount of virtue payouts will replace that.
When the old industry collapses and a new one rises in its place, it's going to take the little threats far too seriously to laugh about it.

/I'm willing to bet the censorship trend will reverse on the very people promoting it now.
/Which is cause for a few giggles, but more censorship is rarely a good thing in the long run.
 
2020-06-29 9:12:37 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Nice of you to show your true colors with the second half, though.


My true colors? What is that supposed to mean?? You bigots are all the same.
 
2020-06-29 9:12:53 AM  

Mugato: Luckily I just watched the episode the other day. Of all this woke shiat, this has to be the most ridiculous. He wasn't wearing blackface, he was in a costume of a fantasy creature.  And the actor isn't even white.

People are going to look back at this point in history and laugh. Either that or it's going to get even worse.


Counterpoint:

It's an episode of farking Community and nobody in the future is going to give a shiat, just like nobody in the present should give a shiat.
 
2020-06-29 9:14:17 AM  
At least it's not the episode with Annie playing Hector the Well-Endowed.
 
2020-06-29 9:23:59 AM  

Mugato: LowbrowDeluxe: Nice of you to show your true colors with the second half, though.

My true colors? What is that supposed to mean?? You bigots are all the same.


I ignored it the first time, but the appeal to borrowed morals is probably the most pathetic excuse for an argument technique ever devised.  Aside from being the most transparently disingenuous bullshiat ever devised, it places you firmly in the same pack with every other idiot who has tried the, "no, you're the REAL racist," of late.   Worst of all, not once in the history of ever has anyone actually believed that bullshiat and had their mind blown with sudden self-realization.  It's not only the most asinine of gotcha attempts, not only does it put you as a fellow traveler to some of the most idiotically stupid people on the planet, it has literally never worked.  It's perfect for you.
 
2020-06-29 9:24:08 AM  
Grew up in MS, in high school a friend had a Halloween party and we we were all huge RA Salvatore nerds so i went as Drizzt. Took me years to realize why i got such weird looks at the gas station near his house.
 
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