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(History Channel)   On this day in history, in 1914, Austria's Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. And they all lived happily ever after   (history.com) divider line
    More: Vintage, World War I, World War II, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, Bosnian Serb nationalist, 19-year-old Gavrilo Princip, official visit, outbreak of World War, group of young nationalists  
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1061 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2020 at 6:06 PM (6 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-28 2:37:31 PM  

Franz Ferdinand - Take Me Out (Official Video)
Youtube GhCXAiNz9Jo

RIP Franz Ferdinand

 
2020-06-28 3:16:37 PM  
well, after the war, and the spanish flu.
 
7 days ago  
Good thing no one cares about Austria.
 
7 days ago  

cretinbob: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/GhCXAiNz​9Jo]
RIP Franz Ferdinand


Came looking for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Just kidding, the sandwich story is bullshiat.
 
6 days ago  
He was just there to Pump *clap* You Up
 
TWX [TotalFark]
6 days ago  

LordOfThePings: [Fark user image 524x499]

Just kidding, the sandwich story is bullshiat.


Ferdinand and cabal had good taste in firearms:

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


FN Model 1910, based on John Browning's designs.

A video on it:

Small Arms of WWI Primer 058: Belgian FN1910
Youtube RxCwMSG9xjg
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size


/what a total screwball
 
6 days ago  
YES I FORGOT THE RIP I SEE THAT NOW
 
6 days ago  
The death of one man ended empires and a world order. It's amazing when you look at it. In 1914, they went to war on horses with lances. In 1918, tanks and airplanes and flame throwers and on and on.
 
6 days ago  
Crikey! That sounds like some fair dinkum bad news, mate.
 
6 days ago  
Don't forget Archduchess Sophie, subbie, you misogynist.
 
6 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: The death of one man ended empires and a world order. It's amazing when you look at it. In 1914, they went to war on horses with lances. In 1918, tanks and airplanes and flame throwers and on and on.


Chemical weapons and Trenches to make it a top 5.
 
6 days ago  

Mentat: Good thing no one cares about Austria.


Of course not. farking kangaroos.
 
6 days ago  
So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?
 
6 days ago  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
6 days ago  
The existence and story of the dark hand and the subsequent assassination really are fascinating. Would make a great docu drama series actually considering everyone knows what it leads to.
 
6 days ago  
Sorry The Black Hand. Had to wiki that one for myself.
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

TWX: LordOfThePings: [Fark user image 524x499]

Just kidding, the sandwich story is bullshiat.

Ferdinand and cabal had good taste in firearms:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 468x316]

FN Model 1910, based on John Browning's designs.

A video on it:

[YouTube video: Small Arms of WWI Primer 058: Belgian FN1910]


It helps that they were in cahoots with the Serbian secret service and the highest reaches of that government.
 
6 days ago  

Mentat: Good thing no one cares about Austria.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  
I remember that day. I had schnitzel for lunch.
 
6 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: The death of one man ended empires and a world order. It's amazing when you look at it. In 1914, they went to war on horses with lances. In 1918, tanks and airplanes and flame throwers and on and on.


1914 military doctrine was basically 1871 doctrine. 1919 doctrine was basically 1939 doctrine. Military technology and military doctrine advanced more quickly than at any other point in history. Tactics and technologies would often go through multiple generations of measure-countermeasure-countercounterm​easure production in one battle.

Yet somehow the popular conception of generalship during the war is "what a bunch of pigheaded brain-dead morons." Not really fair!
 
6 days ago  
West Wing WWI Beginnings
Youtube CqlEKMtwUR4
 
6 days ago  
Yeah, good stuff.  Screwed up Europe and helped make the middle east what it is today. Plus a lovely flu that wiped out a few folks (being sarcastic btw)
 
6 days ago  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?


Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.
 
6 days ago  

pkjun: Nadie_AZ: The death of one man ended empires and a world order. It's amazing when you look at it. In 1914, they went to war on horses with lances. In 1918, tanks and airplanes and flame throwers and on and on.

1914 military doctrine was basically 1871 doctrine. 1919 doctrine was basically 1939 doctrine. Military technology and military doctrine advanced more quickly than at any other point in history. Tactics and technologies would often go through multiple generations of measure-countermeasure-countercounterm​easure production in one battle.

Yet somehow the popular conception of generalship during the war is "what a bunch of pigheaded brain-dead morons." Not really fair!


Yep. The reason the start of the war was so bloody was that the tactics had not yet caught up with the technology. Machine guns and long-range indirect-fire artillery used with 1871-era tactics and doctrine make for an awful lot of wasted soldiers. If the generals had realized that using machine guns and rolling artillery barrages to cover for a force following closely behind the rolling artillery barrage under the cover of the machine guns was the way to go rather than hours-long artillery barrages followed by charging the enemy trenches after the artillery barrage had stopped was mass suicide...
 
6 days ago  

gar1013: AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?

Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.


WWI was going to happen by 1925, no matter what (too many of the princes in Europe wanted another land war, and had entered into too many mutal-assured-destruction treaties to remain peaceful).
 
6 days ago  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?


No, the lesson is always keep a wary eye on Serbia.
 
6 days ago  

gar1013: AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?

Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.


Industrialisation, colonial imperialism, great power brinkmanship, rail timetables for mobilisation and the irresolvable tensions of nationalism in a region with geographically mixed populations wouldn't have just gone away. The powder keg would still have been there and politics would still have been performed by throwing matches at each other. Who knows how it might have turned out?

The Hitler thought experiment is interesting because the unique personality and decisions of Hitler had an enormous impact on world history; it's implausible to imagine a Second World War without Hitler himself driving it. The July Crisis, though, was just a mid-tier diplomatic crisis grinding its way through the halls of diplomacy to the general pan-European war all observers had been predicting and fearing and preparing for over the past decade.
 
6 days ago  

gar1013: ...If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.


I want a God-Machine that lets me yank a historical thread like the above, then see the most likely results played out on a screen.  Not IRL, that's nuts.  Do it IRL, and some nutbar will fix it that Donald Trump becomes POTUS in 2016 and.... oh.
 
6 days ago  
This has been a pretty wild day in history! On this day in history:
Tyson bit Holyfield
Queen Victoria crowned
Treaty of Versailles signed
Nelson Mandela goes to jail
Mel Brooks birthday
Mick Foley thrown through a table at Hell in the Cell

The day isn't over yet for something crazy to happen!
 
6 days ago  

ClavellBCMI: gar1013: AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?

Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.

WWI was going to happen by 1925, no matter what (too many of the princes in Europe wanted another land war, and had entered into too many mutal-assured-destruction treaties to remain peaceful).


This, and also the prevailing attitude at the time that a good war once a generation was a great way to cleanse out the deadwood and freshen up society. Of course, this attitude hadn't caught up to the advent of machine guns and tanks, and was based on old sword-and-musket warfare.

Bottom line: people on all sides were itching for a nice war. It would've happened one way or another.
 
6 days ago  

pkjun: Yet somehow the popular conception of generalship during the war is "what a bunch of pigheaded brain-dead morons." Not really fair!


Considering the greatest weapon for killing the British the Germans had was Field Marshal Haig, I am going to politely disagree with you there.  And Mustafa Kemal must have been completely bemused at the "tactics" of Gallipoli.


Unrelated:  It wasn't the death of Franz Ferdinand that was important, but the political brinkmanship of Europe.  Kill him ten years before and no one cares.  Kill him ten years later and WWI has already happened because of some other act of rank bullshiat.  It's like claiming that the integrity of Poland's border was the cause of WWII.
 
6 days ago  
One man can make a difference.
 ---Gavrilo Princip
 
6 days ago  

LordOfThePings: [Fark user image 524x499]

Just kidding, the sandwich story is bullshiat.


Hey!
 
6 days ago  

pkjun: gar1013: AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?

Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.

Industrialisation, colonial imperialism, great power brinkmanship, rail timetables for mobilisation and the irresolvable tensions of nationalism in a region with geographically mixed populations wouldn't have just gone away. The powder keg would still have been there and politics would still have been performed by throwing matches at each other. Who knows how it might have turned out?

The Hitler thought experiment is interesting because the unique personality and decisions of Hitler had an enormous impact on world history; it's implausible to imagine a Second World War without Hitler himself driving it. The July Crisis, though, was just a mid-tier diplomatic crisis grinding its way through the halls of diplomacy to the general pan-European war all observers had been predicting and fearing and preparing for over the past decade.


There's also the question of whether the Russian Revolution would've taken place without WWI and, if it did, whether the Bolsheviks would've been victorious.  Without either of those things happening, there's no Cold War and Mao most likely doesn't take over China.
 
6 days ago  

mom_dropped_me: Yeah, good stuff.  Screwed up Europe and helped make the middle east what it is today. Plus a lovely flu that wiped out a few folks (being sarcastic btw)


Not sure it did "Screw up Europe." Moving roughly from West to East:

* Ireland managed to secure the existence of an Irish Free State

* Britain became a full democracy with universal suffrage

* France was made whole with the return of Alsace-Lorraine

* Germany became a democracy

* Yugoslavia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland won their Independence from a newly democratic Austria

* So did Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Ukraine, from a no-longer-Tsarist Russia

* Borders were adjusted and set to their current position throughout huge swathes of Central and Eastern Europe

* The Ottoman Empire became a democracy

* Russia became the biggest political experiment in history

Worth the dead? I wouldn't make that argument, but I also wouldn't say that Europe 1925 was necessarily more dysfunctional than Europe 1905.
 
6 days ago  

NDP2: pkjun: gar1013: AAAAGGGGHHHH: So, the moral of the story is "OBEY YOUR ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS AND SUBMIT, YOU PEASANTS!"?

Well...

Think of how many people died in WWI.

20 million, with half being military and half civilian.

Without WWI, you wouldn't have had the rise of Hitler and the Nazis.

WWII had 70-85 million deaths. While not all of them were related to the European theater, a good portion were. Maybe you still have the war in Asia, but still - you're looking at a good 50 million deaths due to the war in Europe.

70 million people dead between two world wars, massive economic devastation, and Eastern Europe crushed under the heel of Soviet oppression.

If you have a time machine and someone says to kill Hitler, smack them for thinking small. Go kill the assshole who killed Franz Ferdinand.

Industrialisation, colonial imperialism, great power brinkmanship, rail timetables for mobilisation and the irresolvable tensions of nationalism in a region with geographically mixed populations wouldn't have just gone away. The powder keg would still have been there and politics would still have been performed by throwing matches at each other. Who knows how it might have turned out?

The Hitler thought experiment is interesting because the unique personality and decisions of Hitler had an enormous impact on world history; it's implausible to imagine a Second World War without Hitler himself driving it. The July Crisis, though, was just a mid-tier diplomatic crisis grinding its way through the halls of diplomacy to the general pan-European war all observers had been predicting and fearing and preparing for over the past decade.

There's also the question of whether the Russian Revolution would've taken place without WWI and, if it did, whether the Bolsheviks would've been victorious.  Without either of those things happening, there's no Cold War and Mao most likely doesn't take over China.


On the other hand, the Chinese warlord era absolutely does happen, and I'm not sure you'd love *any* plausible outcome of that cauldron.
 
6 days ago  

12349876: Nadie_AZ: The death of one man ended empires and a world order. It's amazing when you look at it. In 1914, they went to war on horses with lances. In 1918, tanks and airplanes and flame throwers and on and on.

Chemical weapons and Trenches to make it a top 5.


Machine guns, overlapping fields of fire (kill zones), the use of tanks as something other than an infantryman with treads and camouflage uniforms had all been pushed at the French General Staff long before the war began - not least by some dude named DeGualle.

But alas. The aging veterans of Sedan were still mentally inhabiting the 19th century and preferred the horse-charge, the bright red pantaloon and the mysteriously French quality of élan to defeat their ancient rivals while mouthing the platitude: War never changes.

The Germans however were not farking around and began with Krupp artillery and what later became known as "field gray" uniforms. And they swept through the Allies like a scythe through butter. Indeed if they hadn't lost their nerve and had stuck to Moltke's plan we'd all be speaking Deutsche about now.

But that couldn't happen either, because the German General Staff, despite their technical prowess, belligerent nature and rapid adaptability, were also in the grip of myths of superiority that had precisely no congruent points with reality.

National exceptionalism and old dudes who think they know it all: Is there anything they cannot destroy?
 
6 days ago  

Sexy Jesus: One man can make a difference.
---Gavrilo Princip


Interesting, he was just one of several assassins that day. . He just happened to be the lucky one.
 
6 days ago  
Did anything happen because of it? Because I don't recall ever having never seen a statue of him...
 
6 days ago  
On the plus side. I got some really cool aerial photos my grandfather took of German trenches in France.
 
6 days ago  
The 1904 Russo-Japan war a preview of the tactics that were eventually used during WWI. Unfortunately bot may watched the preview.
 
6 days ago  
I've noticed a serious trend on the internet of "both sides" absolution of German war guilt.  It really ignores the fact that Kaiser Wilhelm threw away a delicate diplomatic balance and, when he had opportunities to defuse tensions, instead escalated matters.  The Germans chained themselves to an iron timetable.

/Although I am partial to the theory that German unification made a conflict in central Europe inevitable.
 
6 days ago  

UNC_Samurai: I've noticed a serious trend on the internet of "both sides" absolution of German war guilt.  It really ignores the fact that Kaiser Wilhelm threw away a delicate diplomatic balance and, when he had opportunities to defuse tensions, instead escalated matters.  The Germans chained themselves to an iron timetable.

/Although I am partial to the theory that German unification made a conflict in central Europe inevitable.


I have... read that one of the compounding problems was that Tsar Nicholas was in a weak domestic position - for example, the Revolution of 1905 - and needed something to shore himself up at home, and believed that supporting existing treaties in the Balkans was the way to go. Wilhelm communicated with his cousin that his preference was to back off from supporting the fighting... Of course, Germany and France were readying for another war anyway, so whether he wanted to just concentrate war with France that was coming anyway, rather than fight both France and Russia...
 
6 days ago  
Now you know why we never stop and ask directions.
 
6 days ago  

calufrax: UNC_Samurai: I've noticed a serious trend on the internet of "both sides" absolution of German war guilt.  It really ignores the fact that Kaiser Wilhelm threw away a delicate diplomatic balance and, when he had opportunities to defuse tensions, instead escalated matters.  The Germans chained themselves to an iron timetable.

/Although I am partial to the theory that German unification made a conflict in central Europe inevitable.

I have... read that one of the compounding problems was that Tsar Nicholas was in a weak domestic position - for example, the Revolution of 1905 - and needed something to shore himself up at home, and believed that supporting existing treaties in the Balkans was the way to go. Wilhelm communicated with his cousin that his preference was to back off from supporting the fighting... Of course, Germany and France were readying for another war anyway, so whether he wanted to just concentrate war with France that was coming anyway, rather than fight both France and Russia...


The German general staff was wedded to a plan that involved laying waste to a neutral country as part of a preemptive offensive.  The only time Moltke the Lesser ever showed a spine was when he told the Kaiser, "the movements of millions cannot be improvised."
 
6 days ago  

Mentat: Good thing no one cares about Austria.


Well, the kangaroos are cool, but way too much of the wildlife wants to kill you.
 
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