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(Forbes)   Wall St. upset the money spigot might be partly diverted somewhere other than Wall St.   (forbes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Democratic Party, stock market, Goldman Sachs, Joe Biden, Iraq War troop surge of 2007, Barack Obama, John Kerry, Morgan Stanley  
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2196 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2020 at 6:50 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-28 2:05:11 AM  
The main concern for Wall Street if Trump doesn't win reelection is the likelihood of higher corporate taxes: In December 2019, Biden pledged to roll back Trump's signature tax cut legislation, which massively boosted corporate profits.

Would it be ok if we just altogether stopped treating these folks like hIman beings?  Maybe think of them as a parasite that we have to find a way to kill without harming the host
 
2020-06-28 2:10:07 AM  
'But.. but.. we want ALL the money!  If someone else gets any of it, that's just not right.. it hurts our feelings!'
 
2020-06-28 2:22:22 AM  
Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.
 
2020-06-28 4:14:28 AM  
I would love to see an economy where the middle and working classes are healthy, happy, prosperous, have their needs taken care of, and make enough money to save for retirement and put their kids through college without worrying about debt..... yet the Down Jones, S&P, Nasdaq, etc.... are taking an absolute beating.

You know, the exact reverse of what we have today.
 
2020-06-28 4:34:34 AM  

DannyBrandt: What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?


The stock market tracks the valuation of financial assets which people use to store their wealth because they don't want to store it as cash.

The reason why is because cash is inflationary, a fluctuating metric set by the Fed that generally hovers around 2% a year. That means the purchasing power of a dollar today has the purchasing power of 98 cents a year from now. You might immediately think this is a bad thing -- your money is literally losing money the longer you hold onto it!! But the truth is inflation has a lot more positive things going for it, not the least of which is that it incentivizes lending and spending (which is the point behind money -- that it be spent; that it change hands as often as possible). You may curse inflation when you receive your paycheck but you'll fall in love with it when you buy a car or home (every year that longterm loan gets 2% easier to pay off).

So inflation is supposed to happen. It is actually preferable to the alternative and it really greases the wheels of commerce and aids in the all important principle of "shiat getting done" in a complex modern capitalist society. But I digress.

But what if you're rich like Scrooge McDuck and you have a billion dollars in cash sitting in a money bin somewhere. Well, in one year that billion has lost $20 million in estimated value due to inflation. That's bad.

So the rich don't store their wealth in cash. In fact, they keep as little liquid cash on hand as possible. All their wealth is stored in financial assets that, instead of losing value over time like money, they only increase in value. There are many different types of assets and instruments and contracts and derivatives that I won't get into, but the stock exchange is the index that records, tracks, and allocates all of them. It is a very useful thing but there are parts of it that is some shady-ass voodoo economic casino gambling bullshiat. These are usually the parts that crash economies.
 
2020-06-28 4:43:49 AM  
The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.
 
2020-06-28 5:30:28 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-28 5:44:41 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.


Well you see, there are a LOT of guys looking to retire...like...soonish, so they have to get while the gettin' is good, and a few more years while American burns...well, there ARE other markets, and the winds of Bali are just calling...
 
2020-06-28 6:58:48 AM  

hubiestubert: common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.

Well you see, there are a LOT of guys looking to retire...like...soonish, so they have to get while the gettin' is good, and a few more years while American burns...well, there ARE other markets, and the winds of Bali are just calling...


Difficulty: Everything fun is illegal in Bali.
 
2020-06-28 7:03:53 AM  
What are they worried about? Biden has been in the pocket of Wall Street for decades.
 
2020-06-28 7:06:46 AM  

DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.


Here's the short version:
Companies are owned in the form of 'shares'.  They are literally "pieces of ownership of a company".
The company issues these shares in the form of an 'offering'.  Which is nothing more than declaring "This company is now composed of 1 million pieces of ownership.

These pieces get bought and sold on an exchange, like Amex, or The New York Stock Exchange, etc. Now, here's the part that most people miss. Once that 'offering' is made, the "company" never sees another dime for that share of stock. The buying and selling that goes on is largely done by a few firms, most of whom have their headquarters on "Wall St" in New York

The 'value' of a company, then is calculated (a poor reflection of a company's value, I might add) by taking all shares of stock the company owns, and multiplying that by the last amount some schmuck paid for one.

So what does Wall St "do"?  They collect massive fees for brokering deals between buyers and sellers, They collect massive fees for 'managing funds' of stock ownership, they collect massive fees for providing 'analysis' of price points and fluctuations, and they collect money by simply doing the trading themselves(The buying, holding and selling).

All that...and the company whose shares are being traded never sees a dime of it after the 'offering'
 
2020-06-28 7:13:07 AM  
The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat


Obligatory reminder that the stock market is not the economy.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-28 7:15:24 AM  

A Cave Geek: The 'value' of a company, then is calculated (a poor reflection of a company's value, I might add) by taking all shares of stock the company owns, and multiplying that by the last amount some schmuck paid for one.


If you want to get technical about it, the economic equilibrium price for a stock should be approximately equal the discounted value of all future anticipated dividends.
 
2020-06-28 7:20:54 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.


And they still haven't figured out the current economic problem is largely exacerbated by the human health problem.
 
2020-06-28 7:22:56 AM  

Shaggy_C: A Cave Geek: The 'value' of a company, then is calculated (a poor reflection of a company's value, I might add) by taking all shares of stock the company owns, and multiplying that by the last amount some schmuck paid for one.

If you want to get technical about it, the economic equilibrium price for a stock should be approximately equal the discounted value of all future anticipated dividends profits.


Stock ownership is a claim on profits.  Dividends are a nice bonus, though.  I tend to avoid stocks that don't pay one reliably.
 
2020-06-28 7:27:29 AM  

DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.


It's a place where people buy and sell small pieces of ownership in companies. Depending on various factors, people are willing to pay more or less money for a piece of ownership.

For example, depending on what the company has done in the past, and what they want to do now, that might match up with someone's financial goals. Is it an established company looking to just keep doing their thing and paying a dividend to their owners? That might be more attractive to a person near retirement than a startup looking to either crash and burn or make 10,000% more income in 10 years. The latter might be more attractive to a young person wanting to take a bigger gamble.
 
2020-06-28 7:27:30 AM  
Wall Street can go fark itself.They'll be lucky to get Biden instead of someone who'll bring out the farking guillotines.

/Figuratively.
//Or literally, I don't really care either way.
 
2020-06-28 7:34:09 AM  
Good.  Wait until they see the power of our fully operational Warren
 
2020-06-28 7:58:25 AM  
DannyBrandt:

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

It's Realm Grinder, but with real money.
 
2020-06-28 8:01:27 AM  

Murkanen: DannyBrandt:

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

It's Realm Grinder, but with real money.


For the quants, it's Cookie Clicker
 
2020-06-28 8:07:49 AM  

DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.


It's largely meant to be a way to get people to give money to companies small and large in exchange for stock, which theoretically  represents a small percentage of ownership of the company.  In practice, it's hard to get enough stock to take over a company, but it is done by corporate raiders fairly often in hostile takeovers.  The problem is that rich people also use the stock market as a casino playground, and bribe politicians to enact laws that help their favorites and hurt their competition.   This playground means that the best you can hope for is that you or your 401k plan sponsor is betting on the right horses that other wealthy players are happy with, not necessarily in companies that have better products or services than others.  This scenario produces a drive for profits for shareholders over anything else, meaning a decline in quality of goods and services for everyone as companies try to squeeze out every penny.  This means lower wages, less benefits, mediocre products that just look pretty, and an economy where people can't afford housing, healthcare, vacations, cars, etc. In short, companies need the money from investors to grow their business, but with the current investors focus on short term windfalls rather than long term investment, everyone is getting shafted but the wealthy.
 
2020-06-28 8:10:47 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.


Because in typical, modern, business-school-graduate fashion, they are more interested in short term gains than in long term stability.
 
2020-06-28 8:12:33 AM  

A Cave Geek: DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.

Here's the short version:
Companies are owned in the form of 'shares'.  They are literally "pieces of ownership of a company".
The company issues these shares in the form of an 'offering'.  Which is nothing more than declaring "This company is now composed of 1 million pieces of ownership.

These pieces get bought and sold on an exchange, like Amex, or The New York Stock Exchange, etc. Now, here's the part that most people miss. Once that 'offering' is made, the "company" never sees another dime for that share of stock. The buying and selling that goes on is largely done by a few firms, most of whom have their headquarters on "Wall St" in New York

The 'value' of a company, then is calculated (a poor reflection of a company's value, I might add) by taking all shares of stock the company owns, and multiplying that by the last amount some schmuck paid for one.

So what does Wall St "do"?  They collect massive fees for brokering deals between buyers and sellers, They collect massive fees for 'managing funds' of stock ownership, they collect massive fees for providing 'analysis' of price points and fluctuations, and they collect money by simply doing the trading themselves(The buying, holding and selling).

All that...and the company whose shares are being traded never sees a dime of it after the 'offering'


see also: rent seeking. When organizations form to do nothing but rent seeking, you are in end-stage capitalism.
 
2020-06-28 8:17:05 AM  

Pharmdawg: It's largely meant to be a way to get people to give money to companies small and large in exchange for stock, which theoretically  represents a small percentage of ownership of the company.  In practice, it's hard to get enough stock to take over a company, but it is done by corporate raiders fairly often in hostile takeovers.  The problem is that rich people also use the stock market as a casino playground, and bribe politicians to enact laws that help their favorites and hurt their competition.   This playground means that the best you can hope for is that you or your 401k plan sponsor is betting on the right horses that other wealthy players are happy with, not necessarily in companies that have better products or services than others.  This scenario produces a drive for profits for shareholders over anything else, meaning a decline in quality of goods and services for everyone as companies try to squeeze out every penny.  This means lower wages, less benefits, mediocre products that just look pretty, and an economy where people can't afford housing, healthcare, vacations, cars, etc. In short, companies need the money from investors to grow their business, but with the current investors focus on short term windfalls rather than long term investment, everyone is getting shafted but the wealthy.


Tell us how you really feel.
 
2020-06-28 8:17:20 AM  
The fact that the wealthy go into a virtual panic whenever there is any sign that they will, sometime in the future, possibly make slightly less money, tells you all you really need to know about the wealthy.

It also tells you that we need to find some way to strip these people of their power, and, ideally, their money. They will always stand in the way of making this country a decent place for its citizens.
 
2020-06-28 8:22:51 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.


As a millennial, since I've been able to vote, both Republican presidencies have ended in a crash then recession.
 
2020-06-28 8:24:07 AM  
More panic and more uncertainly about a Biden presidency, the more the market goes down.  The more the market goes down, the worse the current "president's" numbers get.  The worse his numbers get, the more panic and uncertainty....
 
2020-06-28 8:24:24 AM  

DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.


It's actually a great mechanism for building wealth and in theory it should democratize the ownership of companies, land, commodities, whatever. But like everything in America, we took it to its most ridiculous extreme and now you have billionaire vultures selling poor people's mortgages to slightly less poor people and telling them it's a REIT for their retirement portfolio. It's really gross.
 
2020-06-28 8:25:32 AM  

Shaggy_C: What are they worried about? Biden has been in the pocket of Wall Street for decades.


How dare you, sir. Better than Trump should be good enough!
 
2020-06-28 8:32:12 AM  

eiger: The fact that the wealthy go into a virtual panic whenever there is any sign that they will, sometime in the future, possibly make slightly less money, tells you all you really need to know about the wealthy.

It also tells you that we need to find some way to strip these people of their power, and, ideally, their money. They will always stand in the way of making this country a decent place for its citizens.


If it were up to me, I'd impose a .01% 'Systemic risk' tax on all shares traded on all US-based exchanges, and require that all trades and servers for trades reside IN the US, to prevent getting around it.  (Yes, you can still do that with the cloud, don't think that's a way out)

All funds collected through this tax will be required to go to:90% social safety net programs.  (medicare, medicaid, CHIP, etc.) 10% to an insurance program to cover losses to retail stock holders (not institutional ones) who suffer losses when Fund companies fail.

This will accomplish three things:
- It will slow down the pace of trading, forcing companies to think a little harder about what they're buying and selling (though not much harder)
- It will provide a revenue source for safety net programs, taking a decided bite out of the 'we can't afford it' argument against helping the poor and downtrodden,
- It will give hardworking Americans some value for their investment in allowing these wall street firms to suck money out of their retirement funds, at their expense, tax free.
 
2020-06-28 8:46:36 AM  
Everything connected to Wall Street is a scam especially when it comes to the working class. 401K is designed to promise a retirement fund but gives many fees to fund managers while propping up the stock market with working class money.

Retirement Plans: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube gvZSpET11ZY
 
2020-06-28 8:48:10 AM  
I've heard that the markets like consistency.  You'd think Biden would be much more so than Trump.
 
2020-06-28 8:50:55 AM  

ScrimBoy: I've heard that the markets like consistency.  You'd think Biden would be much more so than Trump.


Yeah, you'd think they'd get really tired of surprise tariffs.
 
2020-06-28 8:55:25 AM  

DannyBrandt: Honest question, because I don't really know. And I'm not very smart.

What the f*ck is Wall Street? Like, what does the stock market actually do?

The valuations of companies fluctuate daily so they buy and sell portions of it, and I guess that 4% of my paycheck goes into some fund where hopefully those people are making the right bets?

There's so much about life I don't understand. Like I said, I'm not very smart.


The punchline is that with every passing year, we offload more and more of the decisions being made about the market onto computers running algorithms that we don't understand.

So we are almost literally throwing our money into a black box that doesn't understand the value of money and hope for the best.  I almost preferred it when there were greedy people whose motivations I could trust and understand.  Now?  A firm could blow a billion dollars on soy tomorrow and *NOT KNOW WHY*.
 
2020-06-28 9:07:56 AM  

Ishkur: You may curse inflation when you receive your paycheck but you'll fall in love with it when you buy a car or home (every year that longterm loan gets 2% easier to pay off).


You assume people get paid more each year.

They don't.

Inflation makes things more expensive, but it doesn't raise my paycheck.

I'm a worker for a state government, where civil servants haven't received any raises in literally over a decade because the GOP in our State legislature refuses to allow it.  I've spent the last few years trying to get a job in the private sector, and I literally can't even get recruiters or HR people to return my calls.

Then there's the fact that the minimum wage hasn't increased in well over a decade as well.

Before I was a civil servant, I worked in a call center.  Pay there was calculated in an elaborate formula based on performance metrics. . .that were all elaborately designed to keep people from getting raises while telling them its their own fault.  Before that, I worked retail in a department store, and was paid barely above minimum wage, and technically there was a performance-based formula that could lead to raises. . .if you sold enough. . .but in reality there were enough sales in the store for maybe 1 clerk to get raises if he did all the checking out, in reality you just got griped at every quarterly review for not selling enough and you're told to sell more if you want a raise.

Inflation means everything gets more expensive, and you get poorer every year.  If my salary at my current job had even received a raises for the amount of inflation I'd be making around 15% more than I make now.  Instead I get poorer every year thanks to inflation.

fark inflation
 
2020-06-28 9:15:06 AM  

Invisible Obama: Ishkur: You may curse inflation when you receive your paycheck but you'll fall in love with it when you buy a car or home (every year that longterm loan gets 2% easier to pay off).

You assume people get paid more each year.

They don't.

Inflation makes things more expensive, but it doesn't raise my paycheck.

I'm a worker for a state government, where civil servants haven't received any raises in literally over a decade because the GOP in our State legislature refuses to allow it.  I've spent the last few years trying to get a job in the private sector, and I literally can't even get recruiters or HR people to return my calls.

Then there's the fact that the minimum wage hasn't increased in well over a decade as well.

Before I was a civil servant, I worked in a call center.  Pay there was calculated in an elaborate formula based on performance metrics. . .that were all elaborately designed to keep people from getting raises while telling them its their own fault.  Before that, I worked retail in a department store, and was paid barely above minimum wage, and technically there was a performance-based formula that could lead to raises. . .if you sold enough. . .but in reality there were enough sales in the store for maybe 1 clerk to get raises if he did all the checking out, in reality you just got griped at every quarterly review for not selling enough and you're told to sell more if you want a raise.

Inflation means everything gets more expensive, and you get poorer every year.  If my salary at my current job had even received a raises for the amount of inflation I'd be making around 15% more than I make now.  Instead I get poorer every year thanks to inflation.

fark inflation


If you carry a lot of debt, inflation is good for you.  Like, you bought that house and are living in it, but the money you now owe the bank is worth *less* than it was when you used it to buy the house.

In general, however, discussions about the merits and pitfalls of inflationary and deflationary economies misses the point.  You don't *choose* those paradigms, you adapt to them.  Inflation is ... inflation.  What is good or bad about it is entirely dependent upon how our society chooses to adapt to it... or not.  A society can leverage either situation to the benefit of its citizens.
 
2020-06-28 9:27:15 AM  

Invisible Obama: You assume people get paid more each year.


They do. They're called annual rate increases/evaluations. Usually somewhere around 3-6%.

At least, in civilized countries that's what happens. I can't speak for the one country on the planet that doesn't even have paid maternity leave.
 
2020-06-28 9:32:21 AM  

Invisible Obama: fark inflation


Considering the average personal debt of the American taxpayer is $90,460, not only is inflation useful and good but it's probably the only thing keeping this teetering jenga tower of an economy together.
 
2020-06-28 9:33:51 AM  

Ishkur: Invisible Obama: You assume people get paid more each year.

They do. They're called annual rate increases/evaluations. Usually somewhere around 3-6%.

At least, in civilized countries that's what happens. I can't speak for the one country on the planet that doesn't even have paid maternity leave.


It's worth considering what happens to a graded payscale even if everyone is "fairly" given the same yearly percentage raise.

And while plenty of Americans get this pittance, it is well understood that you will eventually price yourself out of your job, probably right before you're vested.

Only real way to get a raise in America is to get a new job and use the pay from your last job as a valuation.
 
2020-06-28 9:38:03 AM  
I know how we can "incentivize" the stock market:
1. Organize massive protests on Wall Street
2. Bring 20 of these "incentivizers"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-28 9:57:41 AM  

hubiestubert: common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.

Well you see, there are a LOT of guys looking to retire...like...soonish, so they have to get while the gettin' is good, and a few more years while American burns...well, there ARE other markets, and the winds of Bali are just calling...


The problem is that the selfish elderly moneyed class just refuse to retire, because they just can't stand spending one second of their lives NOT making money.  It's an obsession with them.

And the REAL problem is that too many of these ol' coots are politicians, specifically those cement-headed GOP SENATORS.
 
2020-06-28 10:07:30 AM  
Oblig:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-28 10:24:18 AM  

Naido: The main concern for Wall Street if Trump doesn't win reelection is the likelihood of higher corporate taxes: In December 2019, Biden pledged to roll back Trump's signature tax cut legislation, which massively boosted corporate profits.

Would it be ok if we just altogether stopped treating these folks like hIman beings?  Maybe think of them as a parasite that we have to find a way to kill without harming the host


It's going to be tough to extract taxes from dead "parasites".
 
2020-06-28 10:42:23 AM  

BeesNuts: It's worth considering what happens to a graded payscale even if everyone is "fairly" given the same yearly percentage raise.


Umm... absolutely nothing? Annual raises reduce turnover and reward loyalty and experience. A reliable worker with years of dependability is always going to be far more efficient and productive than a new hire, and should be allotted the type of status, benefits, and pay that comes with seniority.

Yes, wage creep can be a concern but it's not really anything a company worries about until the employee racks up decades of employment, and that is actually a rare thing in today's economy. Most companies don't last decades, much less their workers.

No joke: A friend of mine got a job as a grocery clerk at Safeway right out of high school. Started at the very bottom making $11/hr.

20+ years later and he's still working for the same company. He's moved up to assistant manager of grave shift or some such, making orders, doing inventory and stocking shelves, so naturally his paygrade has gone up with his promotions, but most of it is actually from annual increases and he makes up to nearly $40/hr now.
 
2020-06-28 10:45:15 AM  

Ishkur: Invisible Obama: fark inflation

Considering the average personal debt of the American taxpayer is $90,460, not only is inflation useful and good but it's probably the only thing keeping this teetering jenga tower of an economy together.


Then let the farker collapse.

You just gave an "explanation" for why inflation is good, that is predicated on a faulty premise. . .that people make more each year to compensate for inflation.

For a LOT of Americans, that doesn't happen, or it happens at a rate WELL below the rate of inflation.

We get poorer every year, but are told the economy is doing great because "OMG stonks!"

Many of us can't even afford to farking buy a house anymore, because they want huge down payments that most people can't even afford.  Sorry, but to most Americans, a $20,000 cash down payment might as well be $20 million for fark-all anyone can get that kind of cash.  if I didn't have VA Loan eligibility, I'd probably NEVER be able to buy a house. . .and my parents lost their house 20 years ago because of shenanigans with how mortgages are traded and sold like baseball cards.

We see prices go up on everything from milk to cars every year. . .while our paychecks don't budge.

We have our pension systems raided and replaced with 401k's. . .which is just an elaborate shell game for fund managers to take your retirement funds and say it's your own fault somehow.

. . .our whole goddamn economy is built on worshiping the stock market and this idea that if it's good for the megacorporations and stock market and rich. . .then it's good enough for everyone.

fark that.

Let the motherfarker burn.  It's not doing us a damn bit of good.
 
2020-06-28 10:50:43 AM  

Ishkur: Invisible Obama: You assume people get paid more each year.

They do. They're called annual rate increases/evaluations. Usually somewhere around 3-6%.

At least, in civilized countries that's what happens. I can't speak for the one country on the planet that doesn't even have paid maternity leave.


Yeah, that shiat doesn't happen here.

I don't know what fantasyland you live in, but it doesn't happen here.

What happens here with an annual evaluation at my job is:
1. Your boss hands you an evaluation form in January.  No matter how well you did, you're always rated as "average".  You're told to sign the form.
2. Every tiny mistake, no matter how petty, you've made all year long is carefully annotated as an excuse for why you don't get a "good" evaluation that would warrant a raise.
3. You're also told that there's no money in the budget for raises even if anyone got a "good" evaluation.

If you want a higher paying job, your only hope is to quit your job for another job that pays better. . .if you can find one.  I've been interviewing for jobs that pay ANYTHING better for years, and haven't gotten a one.  Every year I work at my job, I effectively get a pay cut because of goddamn inflation, and the Republicans in the State Legislature won't allow raises at my workplace because they say the budget can't afford it (thanks to sweeping tax cuts).
 
2020-06-28 10:53:15 AM  

QFarker: common sense is an oxymoron: The stock market typically performs better when an incumbent is reelected, while it usually underperforms when the White House flips from Republican to Democrat.

Not a word, of course, about the fact that during the course of a presidency the market performs significantly better under Democrats than Republicans.

Because in typical, modern, business-school-graduate fashion, they are more interested in short term gains than in long term stability.


In my experience, the short return focus is because companies are competing directly with peers and aren't a leader in their field or industry. They can only compete by reducing costs.

In my MBA classes, they made a major point about long term sustainability, innovating, and strategy. My current employer, in a mature industry, doesn't do any of those - but also competes in a commodity business. Therefore, they focus on short term cost reduction by delaying investment in assets.

/could be recency bias since I was just reading about Blue Ocean Strategy
 
2020-06-28 10:55:19 AM  

Ishkur: No joke: A friend of mine got a job as a grocery clerk at Safeway right out of high school. Started at the very bottom making $11/hr.

20+ years later and he's still working for the same company. He's moved up to assistant manager of grave shift or some such, making orders, doing inventory and stocking shelves, so naturally his paygrade has gone up with his promotions, but most of it is actually from annual increases and he makes up to nearly $40/hr now.


Now I believe you're just making things up, because there's no way that 20 years ago an entry-level position at a grocery store for a teenager fresh out of high school was $11/hr.  20 years ago a job like that would pay maybe a little over half that.

Ten years ago I was a college graduate and couldn't get an $11/hr job, the closest I could get was $10.50/hr at a call center (theoretically you could get up to $11/hr if your performance metrics were insanely good, but in reality that never happened to anyone).  Better paying jobs simply weren't out there.

I remember working shiatty retail jobs in the late 90's like grocery store work.  That was more a $6/hour (or AT BEST $7/hr) job. . .now they pay about $11/hr if you're luckyand they don't offer you minimum wage of $7.25/hr with promises of raises later.
 
2020-06-28 11:20:48 AM  

Invisible Obama: Then let the farker collapse.


That will hurt you far more than anyone else.

If you're really adamant about inflicting wholesale suffering, misery, confusion and death on western civilization, then I guess we're done here.

You simply aren't someone worth having a discussion with and I don't respect your right to one more minute of my time.
 
2020-06-28 11:26:18 AM  
Pampering the stock market did not protect against the pandemic.

Pampering the stock market didn't end the pandemic, it made it worse.

Donald J Trump is destroying the economy.

STFU you ghouls! Vote Biden or be considered Trumps forever!
 
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