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(Some Guy)   "It isn't that they thought police vigilantism was always right-it's that they couldn't imagine it happening to them. They imagined themselves as people protected, rather than endangered, by vigilante police not beholden to the law. "   (patriciarobertsmiller.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Police, Police brutality, Police officer, Constable, world model, police officer, just world model, interlocutor Hubert Lawandorder  
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2547 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jun 2020 at 12:18 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-15 10:50:38 AM  
A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.
 
2020-06-15 11:37:50 AM  
I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.
 
2020-06-15 11:39:58 AM  
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about."

How hard is it to understand that we have Constitutional protections from an overreaching government precisely to protect people who have not done anything wrong?  Do people really think those men in 1789 were sitting around trying to figure out how to make it harder to apprehend and punish criminals?
 
2020-06-15 12:06:25 PM  

propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.


Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.
 
2020-06-15 12:08:15 PM  
"It was not until the 1830s that the idea of a centralized municipal police department first emerged in the United States. In 1838, the city of Boston established the first American police force, followed by New York City in 1845, Albany, NY and Chicago in 1851, New Orleans and Cincinnati in 1853, Philadelphia in 1855, and Newark, NJ and Baltimore in 1857 (Harring 1983, Lundman 1980; Lynch 1984). By the 1880s all major U.S. cities had municipal police forces in place.

...
"More than a hundred years earlier, in 1704, the colony of Carolina developed the fledgling United States' first slave patrol.  The patrol consisted of roving bands of armed white citizens who would stop, question, and punish slaves caught without a permit to travel.  They were civil organizations, controlled and maintained by county courts.  The way the patrols were organized and maintained provided a later framework for preventive (rather than reactive) community policing, particularly in the South.

...
"Patrols in the northern U.S. also became useful for breaking up labor strikes before they became too destructive (Marxist political historian Eric Hobsbawm referred to the mechanisms of violence and destruction of property to agitate for better working conditions as "collective bargaining by riot") and these services became increasingly utilized as the country became more populated and conditions simultaneously grew more difficult for the United States' restive economic underclasses.

...
"Similarly, patrols such as the Mounted Guards (forerunners to what eventually became the Border Patrol) were put in place to maintain minority quotas, among other things."

source

Policing is about protecting the interests of the system and the wealthy, not the interests of the citizens. Our system is backwards. We put more value in the system and those in power than we do in the citizens.

Up through the Great Depression, the police were used to oust people striking for things like a living wage, 8 hour work days, safety, end of child labor, 5 day work weeks, and other things we take for granted.
 
2020-06-15 12:17:50 PM  

pearls before swine: "If you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about."

How hard is it to understand that we have Constitutional protections from an overreaching government precisely to protect people who have not done anything wrong?  Do people really think those men in 1789 were sitting around trying to figure out how to make it harder to apprehend and punish criminals?



Even if you have done something wrong it's not the job of the police to beat or execute you.
 
2020-06-15 12:21:50 PM  
tl;dr: The just world model gets you scammed.
 
2020-06-15 12:26:11 PM  

bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.


I've personally known one cop in my entire life. My parents often let their kid stay the night, because he was an abusive monster.

Of course, he was "one of the bad ones," according to my parents.
 
2020-06-15 12:29:50 PM  

propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.


You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.
 
2020-06-15 12:31:04 PM  

Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.


In most cases we (white people) are trying to not be given a traffic citation
Are you rude to your boss when they evaluate you

/People of color Your mileage will be different like an Abrams vs a prius
 
2020-06-15 12:31:18 PM  

MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.


Polite is one thing, deferential is quite another.
 
2020-06-15 12:31:44 PM  

MattytheMouse: bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.

I've personally known one cop in my entire life. My parents often let their kid stay the night, because he was an abusive monster.

Of course, he was "one of the bad ones," according to my parents.


I know about 6 or 7 and the only 1 I'm suspect of is unfortunately my brother in law.  He's a climate change denier.  I haven't seen any studies done, but I'm willing to bet money that a Venn diagram would show a lot of crossover of bad cops and cops who think climate change is a liberal hoax.
 
2020-06-15 12:32:01 PM  
A whole article based on conversation that likely never happened with people that existed in her head.

/your blog sucks
 
2020-06-15 12:32:33 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

In most cases we (white people) are trying to not be given a traffic citation
Are you rude to your boss when they evaluate you

/People of color Your mileage will be different like an Abrams vs a prius


Are cops the 'boss'?
 
2020-06-15 12:32:58 PM  

MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.


No, but I certainly had to restrain myself from punching them in the face repeatedly.
 
2020-06-15 12:33:13 PM  

MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.


I'm always polite to them because if they're pulling me over, there's almost definitely something that I did that they could give me a ticket for.  So why give them added reason to do so?
 
2020-06-15 12:34:20 PM  
Thanks for the read, I'll have to come back to this when I've a bit more time. I certainly have run into this. I have one coworker that loves to use "I see both sides" I backed her into a corner after she basically stated the cop that killed Floyd was understandable because 90% of the people in prison were black. And yes, she admitted she had never watched hte video but somehow knew the guy was on drugs so probably deserved what he got. And this is someone that generally condems her relatives as pretty racist. Yeah.

I've been tempted to start approaching these conversations when they do this as if the harmed person was a rape victim. He was probably out late, wearing something slutty, shouldn't have been drinking. Just to watch their reaction.
 
2020-06-15 12:34:59 PM  
You can take this and apply it to more than just the absolute failure of the broken windows policing model. I've definitely had a few people try to use the Just World model with respect to other subjects such as the economy, college loans, etc. It's actually rather maddening, because I've seen the holes in it in those subjects as well.
 
2020-06-15 12:36:08 PM  
Libertarians just don't seem to understand that other people exist. It's like they have such a limited worldview they see eveyrone around them as NPCs or something. I saw it on here somewhere, a story about a libertarian who converted because he did some drugs and finally realized, "woah, other people feel things like me to."  They're always "reasonable" (according to their frame of logic) so an unreasonable situation can never happen, but it's like they can't understand that the cop themselves might be unreasonable.
 
2020-06-15 12:36:51 PM  

propasaurus: Cornelis de Gyselaer: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

In most cases we (white people) are trying to not be given a traffic citation
Are you rude to your boss when they evaluate you

/People of color Your mileage will be different like an Abrams vs a prius

Are cops the 'boss'?


It would depend entirely on the situation

If they are in a position to cite you, and you WERE speeding,(you know you were) then yes
If I am reporting a crime then they are MY employee
If i am wandering around not hurting anyone then being belligerent is a bad idea

Otherwise they're massa, or they think they are


/And I am white and look harmless so I have that vital aspect going for me
 
2020-06-15 12:36:56 PM  

pearls before swine: "If you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about."

How hard is it to understand that we have Constitutional protections from an overreaching government precisely to protect people who have not done anything wrong?  Do people really think those men in 1789 were sitting around trying to figure out how to make it harder to apprehend and punish criminals?


This is what happens when you give cops permission to search your vehicle.

https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/69/​6​937.asp

Bite the pillow they're going in dry.
 
2020-06-15 12:37:10 PM  

LL316: MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.

I'm always polite to them because if they're pulling me over, there's almost definitely something that I did that they could give me a ticket for.  So why give them added reason to do so?


Almost certainly something you did wrong, like... looking like you don't belong in that (white) neighborhood, or looking like you couldn't possibly own the car you're driving, or you vaguely match the description of a suspect based solely on skin color...
 
2020-06-15 12:37:54 PM  

MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.


I'm just day dreaming of Fox News covering a story about Walmart employees having killed a customer, all like "well what did she expect was goin to happen? She shouldn't have raised her voice. She's no angel, you know; she was trying to return something her sister got her got her wedding! What you need to understand is that Walmart employees have a tough and frustrating job!"
 
2020-06-15 12:39:58 PM  

propasaurus: LL316: MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.

I'm always polite to them because if they're pulling me over, there's almost definitely something that I did that they could give me a ticket for.  So why give them added reason to do so?

Almost certainly something you did wrong, like... looking like you don't belong in that (white) neighborhood, or looking like you couldn't possibly own the car you're driving, or you vaguely match the description of a suspect based solely on skin color...


AND ALL OF THOSE ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHER
 
2020-06-15 12:40:28 PM  
Propasaurus

shiat ignore the caps
 
2020-06-15 12:45:12 PM  

bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.


I've never had a BAD experience with the police.  You can probably guess both my gender and skin color.

Actually that's still not true, I have had bad experiences but I was just glad I didn't get shot.  They were almost certainly looking for someone (3 patrol cars don't show up for routine) and my power window wasn't working (side note: every power window I ever had has broken and made my life difficult, I actually hate them).  Pretty sure we all woulda been shot if we'd been the wrong race.
 
2020-06-15 12:46:55 PM  
In my experience almost all "Libertarians" are just authoritarians who wish they had more authority.
 
2020-06-15 12:47:49 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: propasaurus: Cornelis de Gyselaer: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

In most cases we (white people) are trying to not be given a traffic citation
Are you rude to your boss when they evaluate you

/People of color Your mileage will be different like an Abrams vs a prius

Are cops the 'boss'?

It would depend entirely on the situation

If they are in a position to cite you, and you WERE speeding,(you know you were) then yes
If I am reporting a crime then they are MY employee
If i am wandering around not hurting anyone then being belligerent is a bad idea

Otherwise they're massa, or they think they are


/And I am white and look harmless so I have that vital aspect going for me


You're precisely the cognitive failure the article is talking about. Nicely demonstrated, meekling.
 
2020-06-15 12:51:28 PM  

MattytheMouse: bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.

I've personally known one cop in my entire life. My parents often let their kid stay the night, because he was an abusive monster.

Of course, he was "one of the bad ones," according to my parents.


A friend from high school became a cop. He was one the mildest, nicest people I knew. Pretty much always kind in his interactions.

Years later I friended him on facebook. Now, what people post on facebook is only a partial view of them, but if what I saw there was accurate, he had transformed into a hyper-aggressive nut obsessed with cops who had been killed and always defending any copy who brutalized or killed someone.

It was... jarring.
 
2020-06-15 12:53:25 PM  

TheBigJerk: In my experience almost all "Libertarians" are just authoritarians who wish they had more authority.


Well, that or white men who rebelled against their parents' authority, ended up applying their feelings on that to all institutions, and never grew out of it.
 
2020-06-15 12:54:54 PM  
The only way I've been able to get around to these types of people, even if it's just a little, was to frame it in a way that makes it about them and theirs.

Ask them: "What crime would your [loved one] have to commit that would make you accept a cop brutalizing/executing them in the street?" Then, because it will invariably be something more serious than "mouthing off" or "furtive movements", ask them why they seem to be asking the victims' families to be okay with it happening to their loved ones for a lesser crime.

Sucks that it has to be framed that way, but that's how you have to deal with people incapable of empathy.

/I can't take credit for it, I heard Ta Nehesi Coates say it during an interview on NPR.
 
2020-06-15 12:55:38 PM  

LL316: MattytheMouse: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

You should be polite to everybody, regardless of their occupation.

With that said, you shouldn't have to be polite to police officers, lest you get beaten up. I can't help but wonder if all those people that are like "well of course the cop had no choice but to beat them up; they were being rude," have ever worked in retail or the service industry before.

I'm always polite to them because if they're pulling me over, there's almost definitely something that I did that they could give me a ticket for.  So why give them added reason to do so?


Because they shouldn't give you a ticket on the basis of whether you're rude or not.

We need to stop normalizing asshole behavior on the part of cops. You should be nice to your server, but if someone is rude to a server we wouldn't think it okay if the server put cyanide into their dish, or stabbed them, or flipped them to the ground and kneeled on their neck till they died. Getting shot or beaten up or arrested should not be a likely possibility just for being rude.
 
2020-06-15 12:57:21 PM  

TheBigJerk: In my experience almost all "Libertarians" are just authoritarians who wish they had more authority.


It's unfortunate that so many "libertarians" entire view on politics boils down to: "the only just laws are my property rights"

I say this as a self identifying libertarian, unfortunately it's the 95% of nutcases that give the rest of the libertarians a bad name. That being said I think you can really effectively determine that if someone calls themselves libertarian but says they approve of policing in America then you can safely assume their "libertarian platform" is "conservative Republicans just aren't openly racist enough for me."
 
2020-06-15 1:01:30 PM  
A good model for typical Libertarian attitudes towards the Bill of Rights is not a pride in how fair our system of government is for people in general.  It's a "let me tell you why the government isn't allowed to stop me, in particular, from doing X, in particular"
 
2020-06-15 1:01:40 PM  
At this point, I doubt there's more than 5% of the population who hasn't been harassed by the police at some point in their lives.  The police love to abuse their power so long as they think you can't stop them or challenge them later.  They'll target you for many reasons, and race is just one of them.  The key thing is the cops feel invincible because, legally speaking, they basically are.

This is an issue affecting everyone.  This is an issue that cuts across all lines (because even the stupidly rich can be targets, for this category, if they're also black).  And this is an issue that is only going to be fixed if there is broad and popular agreement about what needs to be done.

But of course, each time we have one of these moments where there might be a popular awakening, the entire thing gets farked to hell and DIAF because the intersectionalists immediately come in and make it all about race.  Which, let's be frank, the majority of the people in the country don't give a fark about since it doesn't personally affect them.

Considering how MANY times this has happened, and how the conversation has been splintered and derailed every single time, I doubt this is by accident.
 
2020-06-15 1:11:06 PM  
I misunderstood Emma's commitment to Libertarianism.

Emma must have been the first Libertarian the author had met.
 
2020-06-15 1:12:39 PM  

bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.


Gosh, sounds like "____% of people are happy with their health insurance provider." All it tells us is the percentage of folks who don't ever use these things.
 
2020-06-15 1:20:18 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: Cornelis de Gyselaer: propasaurus: Cornelis de Gyselaer: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

In most cases we (white people) are trying to not be given a traffic citation
Are you rude to your boss when they evaluate you

/People of color Your mileage will be different like an Abrams vs a prius

Are cops the 'boss'?

It would depend entirely on the situation

If they are in a position to cite you, and you WERE speeding,(you know you were) then yes
If I am reporting a crime then they are MY employee
If i am wandering around not hurting anyone then being belligerent is a bad idea

Otherwise they're massa, or they think they are


/And I am white and look harmless so I have that vital aspect going for me

You're precisely the cognitive failure the article is talking about. Nicely demonstrated, meekling.


looking harmless != being harmless

I am a librarian dude, we are the epitome of a stainless steel rat

/Yeah i voted for Reagan I gotta expunge that mistake
 
2020-06-15 1:29:49 PM  

eiger: MattytheMouse: bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.

I've personally known one cop in my entire life. My parents often let their kid stay the night, because he was an abusive monster.

Of course, he was "one of the bad ones," according to my parents.

A friend from high school became a cop. He was one the mildest, nicest people I knew. Pretty much always kind in his interactions.

Years later I friended him on facebook. Now, what people post on facebook is only a partial view of them, but if what I saw there was accurate, he had transformed into a hyper-aggressive nut obsessed with cops who had been killed and always defending any copy who brutalized or killed someone.

It was... jarring.


They're explicitly trained to be like that. Look up the guy who teaches "killology".
 
2020-06-15 1:40:49 PM  

Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.


Grown-ups, yes.
Authoritarians... they can't deal with Equals. It's either dominance or groveling, and I'm not sure it isn't a hardwired flaw in the human brain.
 
2020-06-15 3:24:32 PM  

Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.


Maybe cops should be required to have parental experience so they can stand there when dealing with tantrum-throwing assholes and just stare at them while saying "Are you finished?"
 
2020-06-15 3:33:28 PM  

vrax: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

Maybe cops should be required to have parental experience so they can stand there when dealing with tantrum-throwing assholes and just stare at them while saying "Are you finished?"


3 years in retail

or in a library or the DMV
 
2020-06-15 3:49:57 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: vrax: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

Maybe cops should be required to have parental experience so they can stand there when dealing with tantrum-throwing assholes and just stare at them while saying "Are you finished?"

3 years in retail

or in a library or the DMV


OK, I think we need a checklist.  "You must have completed at least two of the following:"
 
2020-06-15 4:11:33 PM  
I hate to say this but we may need to start a movement, like a hashtag civil rights are all our rights or something, where stories about how civil rights laws and rulings have also benefited white people and men against discrimination, or where poor white folk have been harmed by a broken justice system, in order to show a large portion of our population, in order to get the needle moving for a certain part of our population.

Martin Luther King, at the time of his death, was said to be planning a movement aimed at white Appalachia to show them that they were being discriminated against by the same machine, in the hopes of turning political enemies into political friends.  Someone needs to take up this work again.
 
2020-06-15 4:16:11 PM  

bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.


Yep.

Not counting county/state, where I'm at I could have one of four police departments show if called.

One's okay. Professional, does well enough.

Two are average at best. You'll need to lean on them if something needs done.

One is outright malignant. In the last 3 years I've seen them:
- Falsify police reports (claiming they spoke to someone who wasn't there, claiming they spoke to someone who was there but they never contacted).
- Run red lights with no lights/sirens (almost hit one a few months ago- he came running through a deep red light, been red about 4 seconds, missed my bumper by about 8 inches but tore the bumper off the guy in front of me, didn't stop)
- Show up to places uninvited and try and send a bill for "security". We were having an outdoor service with church, about 45 of us on our own church property. Private property, not owned by the city. About 5 minutes after it started, two cops showed up, parked, and sat there watching everything, then they tried to shake down the pastor for "security fees". He told them to leave, as they were not called and he did not request security. They still sent a bill in the mail, threatened to take it to collections. We had video of the whole thing (we videotape services for the sick who can't come) and the attorney we had threatened to take it to court and got it dropped.
- Always run around brandishing weapons. I'm talking routine stops, walking up to the car on the side of the road with gun drawn. Not everything is a farking danger stop.
 
2020-06-15 4:36:06 PM  

LL316: He's a climate change denier. I haven't seen any studies done, but I'm willing to bet money that a Venn diagram would show a lot of crossover of bad cops and cops who think climate change is a liberal hoax.


Magical Thinking gets you turned into a newt.  Your thinking will not get better.
 
2020-06-15 4:38:29 PM  

eiger: MattytheMouse: bingethinker: A survey found that 75% of the people in my city are happy with the job the cops are doing. This just proves that 75% of the people in this city have never had any contact with the police.

I've personally known one cop in my entire life. My parents often let their kid stay the night, because he was an abusive monster.

Of course, he was "one of the bad ones," according to my parents.

A friend from high school became a cop. He was one the mildest, nicest people I knew. Pretty much always kind in his interactions.

Years later I friended him on facebook. Now, what people post on facebook is only a partial view of them, but if what I saw there was accurate, he had transformed into a hyper-aggressive nut obsessed with cops who had been killed and always defending any copy who brutalized or killed someone.

It was... jarring.


By luck and chaos, I have been personally acquainted with 5 people who became cops, 2 of whom I can guarantee are still on active duty unless they're dead.

I rented property in north Georgia for a year with a cop living in houses on either side of mine, and in some kind of inversion of political swing the guy who lived two houses down to the left is probably still active duty and was very much the stereotypical redneck LEO who joined right out of high school, while the guy in the house next door to the right being the one who didn't join the force until his early 30s, came from a retail management background and in private after many beers would complain about how he thought the war on drugs was a goddamn waste of time. The lifer I avoided like the plague, while I got drunk with the "its just a job" cop at least 15 times over the course of a 10 month period.

A guy who bullied me in high school became a cop after high school and is probably still a raging dickhead of a cop operating somewhere in the NJ Tri-state area. And a queer kid I went to college with became a cop after getting a Bachelor's of Psychology because they thought they could change the system from within, and were out in 3 years because "oops, all bad apples!" means there's no underground inner-prectint resistance group, you are the resistance to the norm and you will be purged for it.

One of my mom's college friends joined her local state police force in Virginia after serving as a Navy diver for over a decade and left after 4 years because she got tired of being forced to "forget" to mention inappropriate behavior she witnessed from other officers while on the job, lest she damage her standing within the "brotherhood of blue".

Let's not forget there's also legal precedence in the US making it completely okay for cop academy HR to intentionally deny anyone deemed "too smart for the job". The industry literally pursues and then champions the destructive idiots of society, and then whine about how everyone thinks they act like a bunch of thugs.

So if it seems like all the cops you meet and see are assholes: its not a bug, its a feature.
 
2020-06-15 5:17:13 PM  

winedrinkingman: I hate to say this but we may need to start a movement, like a hashtag civil rights are all our rights or something, where stories about how civil rights laws and rulings have also benefited white people and men against discrimination, or where poor white folk have been harmed by a broken justice system, in order to show a large portion of our population, in order to get the needle moving for a certain part of our population.

Martin Luther King, at the time of his death, was said to be planning a movement aimed at white Appalachia to show them that they were being discriminated against by the same machine, in the hopes of turning political enemies into political friends.  Someone needs to take up this work again.


I did a humanitarian construction trip (kind of like habitat) to Phillipi West Virginia.  You have no idea how bad it was there and you have no idea how anti-education the parents are.. simply because they don't want smart kids who will leave for jobs elsewhere and leave them with no one to take care of them.. and they are so stuck on their own land there is no way in hell the parents are ever going to move.. they want to die there like their parents did.
 
2020-06-15 5:21:20 PM  

vrax: Cornelis de Gyselaer: vrax: Clarence Brown: propasaurus: I'm always polite and deferential to police officers, so that would never happen to me

But why are police automatically owed polite deference? They're supposed to protect and serve us,not the other way around.

Yeah, I can never figure that out. I mean, you shouldn't be rude to a cop because I don't think you should be rude in general. But we all have jobs where people are rude to us from time to time; grownups can deal with that without violence.

Maybe cops should be required to have parental experience so they can stand there when dealing with tantrum-throwing assholes and just stare at them while saying "Are you finished?"

3 years in retail

or in a library or the DMV

OK, I think we need a checklist.  "You must have completed at least two of the following:"


deal with a Karen & get a gold star
 
2020-06-15 7:52:45 PM  
Ok, I have another circle on the Venn diagram. I've come to the conclusion that racism doesn't explain everything. While POC are killed at a higher rate than whites, it still doesn't explain why so many of the people killed by cops are white, so its not just a race thing, its police violence with a lot of racism added.

I think the reason for so much police brutality has to do with the war on drugs. Let me try to explain. I have several perspectives on this, but don't know if I have the energy to explain everything impromptu.

1) When you are arresting everyone, including grandma and 8 year old Tommy for smoking a joint. Everyone looks like a criminal. Cops can't differentiate who a bad person is anymore.

2) When a person is unjust to another person, that person being treated unjustly, is going to want to fight back. They don't perceive that they did anything wrong. If the person being treated unjustly is guilty and feels guilty because they know they did wrong, they tend to not fight back and accept their punishment. They percieve that they did wrong and so are being punished for doing wrong.

3) Some one described something to me about the difference between a crime and a vice once. The difference was, a crime is someone hurting someone else, a vice is something you do to hurt yourself. Most people driving around with a joint in their car, from their perspective, are not hurting anyone but themselves. So when they get stopped they don't think of themselves as someone who is hurting anyone, but are getting a violent response and so end up fighting back because they don't perceive that they did anything wrong.

4) The war on drugs isn't evidence based. I would consider the war on drugs to be based on religious law. Religious laws are not based on evidence. Portugal decriminalized all drugs. Note that they didn't deregulate, they just decriminalized possession of all drugs. There are still regulations, I am still not clear on how they regulate everything but I would like to see how it is working. Portugal proved that it is not necessary to incarcerate everyone who is in possession of a drug.
 
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