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(Ars Technica)   Team Intel goes blasting off again   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Attack, Cryptography, Central processing unit, unending series of attacks, Data, encryption keys, remote server, separate academic teams  
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1135 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Jun 2020 at 1:06 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



22 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-06-10 12:30:55 PM  
Ah, that's what that kernel and microcode update yesterday on Ubuntu was all about.
 
2020-06-10 1:00:22 PM  
Judging by Phoronix's testing, we're seeing yet another performance hit in normal workloads, with a 36% drop in performance for Postgres.

All those gains in performance Intel has eked out of the Skylake revisions keeps vanishing.
 
2020-06-10 1:25:13 PM  
So, are AMD processors anymore secure?
 
2020-06-10 1:25:26 PM  
"speculative execution flaw"
So, SEx flaw?
 
2020-06-10 1:34:41 PM  

jayphat: "speculative execution flaw"
So, SEx flaw?


Which means if you use it to steal money, it becomes a SEx crime.
 
2020-06-10 1:37:02 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: So, are AMD processors anymore secure?


AMD doesn't have SGX.

/at this point anything more than a 486 probably isn't secure
 
2020-06-10 1:50:16 PM  

palladiate: Judging by Phoronix's testing, we're seeing yet another performance hit in normal workloads, with a 36% drop in performance for Postgres.

All those gains in performance Intel has eked out of the Skylake revisions keeps vanishing.


Aw geeze. As a huge postgres/postgis fanboy that really doesn't make me happy.
 
2020-06-10 1:52:58 PM  
Dat tagline tho
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-10 2:58:47 PM  
I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?
 
2020-06-10 3:07:35 PM  

Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


I think the criticism that they've hidden behind a proprietary security and microcode black box layer is justified.

There's no particular reason why the logic of a CPU needs to be mysterious. Make the fast and reliable, and they'll sell.
 
2020-06-10 3:16:51 PM  

Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?



It is the phrase "reasonable cost" that i find questionable to the situation.

If "reasonable" is defined by the CEO and board of directors, as to what they can spend while retaining their golden parachutes and massive pay gap from all the employees, and stock price manipulation....

I'd suggest that if they all earned 50%-75% less, which would still leave them had and shoulders above their staff, they may find that they could more reasonably afford to design better.


I personally don't like the idea that what we have can as a group of us, cold only be as good as what some one else decides the rest of us can have, after they take their slice out of the pie first.
 
2020-06-10 3:17:09 PM  
Since the only meaningful use of SGX up until now has been to protect Netflix Ultra HD DRM, good.
 
2020-06-10 4:36:19 PM  
Good thing I use a Mac

haw haw haw

/ America's ORIGINAL Eat-My-Ass-Guy
 
2020-06-10 4:58:39 PM  

gbv23: Good thing I use a Mac

haw haw haw

/ America's ORIGINAL Eat-My-Ass-Guy


What, you have one of those ARM-based Macs that don't actually exist yet, or are you still running a 15-year-old PowerPC based Mac, like an iMac G5 or iBook?
 
2020-06-10 5:12:08 PM  

Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


Well about that...  FTFA
Intel never fixed the underlying vulnerability in the silicon. Instead, company engineers issued a microcode update that caused CPUs to overwrite buffer contents with garbage every time the processor began a new security-sensitive operation. CacheOut figured out a way to bypass this mitigation.

Yes I very, very much do blame them for this.  Not only for bad decisions in the past regarding speculative execution, but for not fixing it their designs.  Clearly they can't fix old processors, only patch the code.  However choosing to not fix known existing problems with the hardware's design... yeah that's hard to defend.

gbv23: Good thing I use a Mac


Macs have been using Intel CPUs for some time now.  PowerPC was abandoned how long ago?  Unless I'm behind the times here, I believe they still are using Intel.  So no, you are just as vulnerable as anyone else using Intel CPUs - unless the microcode fix for this has already been deployed for Mac.  The next vulnerability will also need fixed on Mac, and the one after that.  Etc.  This is security vulnerability whack-a-mole and you're playing it just like everyone else using the same hardware.
 
2020-06-10 5:35:53 PM  

palladiate: Judging by Phoronix's testing, we're seeing yet another performance hit in normal workloads, with a 36% drop in performance for Postgres.

All those gains in performance Intel has eked out of the Skylake revisions keeps vanishing.


.........AMD's Ryzen once again swoops in for the Win.
 
2020-06-10 5:38:21 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?

I think the criticism that they've hidden behind a proprietary security and microcode black box layer is justified.

There's no particular reason why the logic of a CPU needs to be mysterious. Make the fast and reliable, and they'll sell.


Intel Management Engine with its own network interface is always fun to speculate on.

gives new meaning to Intel Inside....
 
2020-06-10 5:39:29 PM  

Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


Intel is leading the security issues race by a wide margin compared to AMD.
 
2020-06-10 5:40:24 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: So, are AMD processors anymore secure?


yes they are.  Duck (duckduckgo) it!
 
2020-06-10 8:15:44 PM  

PvtStash: Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


It is the phrase "reasonable cost" that i find questionable to the situation.

If "reasonable" is defined by the CEO and board of directors, as to what they can spend while retaining their golden parachutes and massive pay gap from all the employees, and stock price manipulation....

I'd suggest that if they all earned 50%-75% less, which would still leave them had and shoulders above their staff, they may find that they could more reasonably afford to design better.


I personally don't like the idea that what we have can as a group of us, cold only be as good as what some one else decides the rest of us can have, after they take their slice out of the pie first.


Actually the problem is NOT that customers need chips at reasonable costs. It's that both AMD and Intel are locked into trying to keep chips from becoming a commodity product. All this extra techno this, and crypto that has one purpose: to keep third parties from making equivilent chips.

If chips were cars, this is the equivilent of Ford or Toyota adding a computer to the engine that refuses to work unless the car is serviced at the dealership. Also the engine will only run if genuine Ford or Toyota parts are installed.

It also happens that computer is in charge of the door locks, and the starter kill.
 
2020-06-10 8:45:10 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: PvtStash: Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


It is the phrase "reasonable cost" that i find questionable to the situation.

If "reasonable" is defined by the CEO and board of directors, as to what they can spend while retaining their golden parachutes and massive pay gap from all the employees, and stock price manipulation....

I'd suggest that if they all earned 50%-75% less, which would still leave them had and shoulders above their staff, they may find that they could more reasonably afford to design better.


I personally don't like the idea that what we have can as a group of us, cold only be as good as what some one else decides the rest of us can have, after they take their slice out of the pie first.

Actually the problem is NOT that customers need chips at reasonable costs. It's that both AMD and Intel are locked into trying to keep chips from becoming a commodity product. All this extra techno this, and crypto that has one purpose: to keep third parties from making equivilent chips.

If chips were cars, this is the equivilent of Ford or Toyota adding a computer to the engine that refuses to work unless the car is serviced at the dealership. Also the engine will only run if genuine Ford or Toyota parts are installed.

It also happens that computer is in charge of the door locks, and the starter kill.


The only thing preventing another company from making an x64 chip right now is licencing. There are plenty of chipmakers with the knowledge and technology that can do this. AMD holds all the rights doesn't it?
 
2020-06-10 8:56:34 PM  

Russ1642: Evil Twin Skippy: PvtStash: Russ1642: I find it hard to blame Intel and AMD for these security issues. Can we really expect them to design chips at a reasonable cost, that can be manufactured quickly and reliably yet withstand teams of researchers bombarding them from every angle imaginable?


It is the phrase "reasonable cost" that i find questionable to the situation.

If "reasonable" is defined by the CEO and board of directors, as to what they can spend while retaining their golden parachutes and massive pay gap from all the employees, and stock price manipulation....

I'd suggest that if they all earned 50%-75% less, which would still leave them had and shoulders above their staff, they may find that they could more reasonably afford to design better.


I personally don't like the idea that what we have can as a group of us, cold only be as good as what some one else decides the rest of us can have, after they take their slice out of the pie first.

Actually the problem is NOT that customers need chips at reasonable costs. It's that both AMD and Intel are locked into trying to keep chips from becoming a commodity product. All this extra techno this, and crypto that has one purpose: to keep third parties from making equivilent chips.

If chips were cars, this is the equivilent of Ford or Toyota adding a computer to the engine that refuses to work unless the car is serviced at the dealership. Also the engine will only run if genuine Ford or Toyota parts are installed.

It also happens that computer is in charge of the door locks, and the starter kill.

The only thing preventing another company from making an x64 chip right now is licencing. There are plenty of chipmakers with the knowledge and technology that can do this. AMD holds all the rights doesn't it?


They control the spec with a number of patents. Intel stole cross licensed the spec, as did Via. But third parties are pretty much locked out.
 
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