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(Prevail)   Best thing Subby has ever read on race and atonement for the US original sin of slavery. BTW, when did you first realize "atone" came from "at one," or making whole? (For Subby, it was today)   (gregolear.substack.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Slavery, African American, Black people, White people, Race, Black man, Afro-Latin American, black lives  
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3566 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2020 at 6:03 PM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-09 5:02:00 PM  
The approved phrasing is "I was today years old" subby
 
2020-06-09 5:23:26 PM  
I knew awhile back, but that's because I'm a religion scholar and quite a few Christian theories on the meaning of the death/resurrection of Jesus investigate different mechanisms of the "atonement" or "at-one-ment" --the idea of reconciling an estranged humanity separated by sin (sin meaning separation from God) to the presence of God. But its a pretty cool thing to learn, I agree. We can all learn something new every day, Submitter :-)
 
2020-06-09 6:07:25 PM  
BTW, when did you first realize "atone" came from "at one," or making whole?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-09 6:08:22 PM  
Says it in fewer words:
How Can We Win
Youtube sb9_qGOa9Go
 
2020-06-09 6:08:23 PM  
1590s, "be in harmony, agree, be in accordance," from adverbial phrase atonen (c. 1300) "in accord," literally "at one," a contraction of at and one. It retains the older pronunciation of one. Meaning "make up (for errors or deficiencies)" is from 1660s; that of "make reparations" is from 1680s.
 
2020-06-09 6:10:59 PM  
Now why'd the mods pull that green article about George Floyd's 2nd grave essay?  Did they hate Politics tab flamewars on the Front page?
 
2020-06-09 6:13:36 PM  

FlyingJ: George Floyd's 2nd grave


Unfortunate typo
 
2020-06-09 6:14:22 PM  

tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[YouTube video: How Can We Win]


I saw that on Last Week Tonight, then looked up the whole video. She's so powerful, and it got real dusty in my room by the time I got to the end, even after the second viewing. Everyone should see this, it really gets the message across.
 
2020-06-09 6:18:36 PM  
That's a rough link to see on mobile Fark, subby.

Just sayin'.
 
2020-06-09 6:18:44 PM  
It's good to see a thorough and impartial write-up on the issue...
 
2020-06-09 6:21:36 PM  
Isn't language interesting?
 
2020-06-09 6:23:18 PM  

FlyingJ: Now why'd the mods pull that green article about George Floyd's 2nd grave essay?  Did they hate Politics tab flamewars on the Front page?


I was wanting to ask that myself.

I dug the link to that thread out of my history and it's been completely nuked.
 
2020-06-09 6:23:24 PM  
That's not true. It originates from the Casio VL-Tone, which made 'a tone' available to the masses and democratized synthesizer intros.
 
2020-06-09 6:25:19 PM  

Somacandra: I knew awhile back, but that's because I'm a religion scholar and quite a few Christian theories on the meaning of the death/resurrection of Jesus investigate different mechanisms of the "atonement" or "at-one-ment" --the idea of reconciling an estranged humanity separated by sin (sin meaning separation from God) to the presence of God. But its a pretty cool thing to learn, I agree. We can all learn something new every day, Submitter :-)


That sounds like MLKjr's movement. And maybe one of the shared ideals Gandhi saw between theologies? (Dogmas?)
 
2020-06-09 6:28:03 PM  
The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.
 
2020-06-09 6:31:49 PM  

tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/sb9_qGOa​9Go?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


that was very persuasive
 
2020-06-09 6:33:12 PM  
We need to atone for our original sin. The time has come. What will that look like? I don't know.

:-|
 
2020-06-09 6:35:58 PM  

tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/sb9_qGOa​9Go?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Another poor attempt at justifying theft and violence.  I support the protesters 100% and am grateful for the attention they have brought to police brutality.  Any leader of the movement who does not condemn the looting, violence, and arson weakens the case.  Again - silence is approval.

Le'ts seek the truth.  The whole truth.  Today during George Floyd's funeral service, the pastor said "George Floyd's only crime was that he was born black."  That's when I turned it off.  He does not have to be perfect to be entitled to fair treatment by the police.  People trying to justify Chauvin's actions or deny Floyd's criminal lifestyle are detrimental to the cause.
 
2020-06-09 6:36:57 PM  

Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.


So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?
 
2020-06-09 6:42:59 PM  
When a word was formed along with early English or Latin it's not exactly a portmanteau.
 
2020-06-09 6:48:26 PM  

AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?


Those families moved to a country with heaping multitudes of racist shiat-bags, and twice as many who don't mind it. So it's like a When in Rome situation, they ain't off the hook
 
2020-06-09 6:49:03 PM  

AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?


If you're a person of color who immigrated here then it's quite plausible that the economic woes in your parents' mother country is a direct result of European colonialism. I'd include you without reservation in the no income tax club.
 
2020-06-09 6:49:15 PM  
R.W. Griffith?
 
2020-06-09 6:54:11 PM  

MerelyFoolish: tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/sb9_qGOa​9Go?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]

Another poor attempt at justifying theft and violence.  I support the protesters 100% and am grateful for the attention they have brought to police brutality.  Any leader of the movement who does not condemn the looting, violence, and arson weakens the case.  Again - silence is approval.

Le'ts seek the truth.  The whole truth.  Today during George Floyd's funeral service, the pastor said "George Floyd's only crime was that he was born black."  That's when I turned it off.  He does not have to be perfect to be entitled to fair treatment by the police.  People trying to justify Chauvin's actions or deny Floyd's criminal lifestyle are detrimental to the cause.


There is a broad chasm between justifying and explaining.  Since you apparently don't get that - well, let me go with a Farkism: username checks out.
 
2020-06-09 6:56:12 PM  

Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.


Fark user image

Very on brand of you.
 
2020-06-09 6:58:07 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Has known for a while.
 
2020-06-09 7:04:03 PM  

Slappy Longballs: AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?

Those families moved to a country with heaping multitudes of racist shiat-bags, and twice as many who don't mind it. So it's like a When in Rome situation, they ain't off the hook


Ah, so my grandparents who escaped Eastern Europe under Soviet communism are racist shiatbags for coming to the US.  Good to know.  I guess I'll never be supporting this idea.
 
2020-06-09 7:06:48 PM  

Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-09 7:07:23 PM  

Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.


Or just fix income taxes(and a multitude of other things) so that the disadvantaged have better results.
 
2020-06-09 7:07:32 PM  
I don't believe in Original Sin subby.

And frankly I am fine with having the knowledge of good and evil.
 
2020-06-09 7:12:18 PM  

AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?


I'm 17 years older than 50 years

I'm feeling really old
 
2020-06-09 7:14:38 PM  
Actually, the burning cross is described in the book (The Klansmen) that Griffith adapted into Birth of a Nation. So  he didn't really invent it. However, because of the popularity of the film, the KKK did rise again in influence and power.
 
2020-06-09 7:14:46 PM  
I remember checking IDs and taking it was wacky that kids who were born the year I graduated from high school could legally drink, made me feel really old. I'm way over that now.
 
2020-06-09 7:21:06 PM  

MerelyFoolish: People trying to justify Chauvin's actions or deny Floyd's criminal lifestyle are detrimental


By mentioning Floyd's alleged "criminality", you might be read out as justifying Chauvin's actions.

Not hostile. Just noticing.
 
2020-06-09 7:25:29 PM  
I'm Norwegian American. Apparently I have to atone for my ancestors treatment of white Europeans. It's not like I personally blood eagled any of them. Not that I wouldn't but I haven't yet.
 
2020-06-09 7:25:43 PM  
Essays like this are the reason Trump will be reelected.
 
2020-06-09 7:30:45 PM  
What we're seeing out on the streets (i.e.' police killing black people' brutalizing anyone who objects, etc. etc.) is not an aberration, it's the system working exactly as it was designed to from day one. Both major parties have always been actively complicit in this, because the bipartisan political consensus is white supremacy, and people who aren't in favour of that are carefully denied a voice. Until white progressives acknowledge that, we're not gonna get anywhere.
 
2020-06-09 7:32:11 PM  

tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/sb9_qGOa​9Go?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


said more erudite and nuanced then I, someone give her a doctorate so she can be a professor of history/socialogy.

/as an aside, I drove to Rosewood in my teen years and all was left was the foundations of the buildings, but the county mowed the grass around them.
 
2020-06-09 7:32:55 PM  
The problem I see with laying today's problems at the feet of centuries past is that if we do "atone" for the past, we're going to want to think we've solved this problem, but we're going to wake up the next day and see the world is still full of racism, because racism isn't just the legacy of African slavery in the USA.  And perhaps we'll have lost an opportunity for a greater change.

But, hell, let's level economic/legal/political playing field between black and white in this country regardless.  If people are still going to be dicks to each other, at least it will be more fairly distributed.
 
2020-06-09 7:33:41 PM  
*sigh* There's several cultures that the US has stepped on since its conception - African, First Nation, Mexican, and more.

There's no universal panacea that will make "atonement" possible; we will never achieve such an ideal state.  To believe otherwise is simplistic.

What's possible is to make improvements, fighting inertia to highlight and rectify ongoing issues, punishing, penalizing, and educating the perpetuators of negative habits.  Allowing moments like George Floyd's death to act as a catalyst, to radically shift needs and issues forward.

To believe atonement by any one group unto another is possible, let alone desirable, is based in denial.  To deny those who took it too far in the opposite direction.  To deny those who attempted to improve things over the years and paid the penalty (often with their lives) for doing so.  To deny when one wronged group has wronged another out of grief, anger, or fear.  To deny our shared history, blemishes and blessings alike.

/sorry if I got preachy
 
2020-06-09 7:38:46 PM  
Here's my ridiculous but also possibly totally serious idea:  Only black women can run for office in the US until further notice.

I know we aren't talking about sexism these day, but there's no reason we can't kill two birds with one stone.
 
2020-06-09 7:40:11 PM  

Gooch: AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?

If you're a person of color who immigrated here then it's quite plausible that the economic woes in your parents' mother country is a direct result of European colonialism. I'd include you without reservation in the no income tax club.


If you're a person of color who emigrated here in the last 50 years, you're ancestors likely profited off those slave sales. 🧐
 
2020-06-09 7:40:32 PM  

Gooch: AngryDragon: Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.

So what about those of us whose families immigrated to the US within the last 50 years?

If you're a person of color who immigrated here then it's quite plausible that the economic woes in your parents' mother country is a direct result of European colonialism. I'd include you without reservation in the no income tax club.


Excluding anyone from paying taxes sounds like a recipe for abuse. How about providing good quality services and educational opportunities, maybe business loans, investment opportunities, paths to make theAmerican dream real.

/Not paying a tax sounds nice
But for most people it's meaningless if you are not earning a decent living.
 
2020-06-09 7:41:10 PM  

FlyingJ: Now why'd the mods pull that green article about George Floyd's 2nd grave essay?  Did they hate Politics tab flamewars on the Front page?


The thread was full of some absolute monsters trying to justify killing him. I was out and about and couldn't reply at the time, but I was certainly hoping the moderators would take it seriously. They were almost gagging on their farking dogwhistles.

Anyone trying to bring up things Floyd did unrelated to his murder as an attempt to justify it are just broken on the inside. Floyd did not have to be a goddamn saint for his death at the knee of a uniformed cop to be an atrocity.

For people with working human hearts reading, don't bother engaging these people. They're just sad people trying to make you feel like shiat for caring about a human life. There's nothing you can say to them that's harsher than the self-own of spending their time saying vitriolic things in a desperate attempt to sway the public opinion against a dead man, and it not even working.
 
2020-06-09 7:49:21 PM  

Flerkenpie070: MerelyFoolish: People trying to justify Chauvin's actions or deny Floyd's criminal lifestyle are detrimental

By mentioning Floyd's alleged "criminality", you might be read out as justifying Chauvin's actions.

Not hostile. Just noticing.


No, he was a convicted felon who had done real jail time in Texas.  That's the reality, but it has nothing to do with what happened to him.  It's like MLK was a known womanizer, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he was the greatest figure that 20th century America produced, bar none.
 
2020-06-09 7:51:02 PM  

tyyreaunn: Says it in fewer words:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/sb9_qGOa​9Go?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Best thing on the internet.  

Kimberly Jones  for president. 

I'm not gonna write her in this year, because Trump has got to go. 2024 for sure
 
2020-06-09 7:51:19 PM  

pearls before swine: Here's my ridiculous but also possibly totally serious idea:  Only black women can run for office in the US until further notice.

I know we aren't talking about sexism these day, but there's no reason we can't kill two birds with one stone.


Condelezza Rice for president!!
 
2020-06-09 7:51:31 PM  
Around 400,000 white Union solders died, and almost 300,000 were wounded to free the slaves.  Seems like some atonement was paid.  Unless, he wants to argue it was about States rights.
 
2020-06-09 8:00:46 PM  

docgrog: Flerkenpie070: MerelyFoolish: People trying to justify Chauvin's actions or deny Floyd's criminal lifestyle are detrimental

By mentioning Floyd's alleged "criminality", you might be read out as justifying Chauvin's actions.

Not hostile. Just noticing.

No, he was a convicted felon who had done real jail time in Texas.  That's the reality, but it has nothing to do with what happened to him.  It's like MLK was a known womanizer, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he was the greatest figure that 20th century America produced, bar none.


The decision to bring up the history of a man who they only know because he was the victim of police brutality, so as to paint him in a negative light on the day of his funeral, has some negative implications for these folk.
 
2020-06-09 8:01:29 PM  

Gooch: The best way to atone would be to abolish income taxes for non-whites in the United States. Minorities are so far behind economically that taxing their work is tantamount to enslavement.


Especially Asians.
 
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