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(Car and Driver)   Honda takes anti-theft systems to the previous level   (caranddriver.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Honda Civic, Honda Civic Si, Manual transmission, standard equipment, sedan's subtlety, small sporty sedan, six-speed manual, litmus test of sorts  
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2958 clicks; posted to Business » and Geek » on 06 Jun 2020 at 9:05 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-06 7:22:09 PM  
I'll stick with Magnavolt. It's worked out very well for me.

Magnavolt car anti theft advert from Robocop 2, brilliant!
Youtube 7U4ZYOBzEEs
 
2020-06-06 8:24:58 PM  

LesserEvil: I'll stick with Magnavolt. It's worked out very well for me.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/7U4ZYOBz​EEs?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Fark user imageView Full Size


I'd rather keep the smell of charred flesh *outside*.
 
2020-06-06 8:44:43 PM  
First time I ever drove a manual was many years ago when I went to Germany. Rented a car but forgot about the whole auto/manual difference until I found the car and got in. I knew the general concepts and mechanics--plus I had a shiftronic at home I regularly used--but I wasn't fully prepared. I stalled shifting to reverse. I stalled backing out. I stalled getting out of the garage. But eventually with minimal disruption I got the hang of it. By the end I was even a pro at stop-and-go traffic. I even had this one crazy moment where I was like, "holy shiat I'm stuck in rush hour traffic on the Autobahn and it's SO FARKING COOL!!"

Totally stressful, major adrenaline rush, absolutely worth it.
 
2020-06-06 8:46:10 PM  

LesserEvil: I'll stick with Magnavolt. It's worked out very well for me.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/7U4ZYOBz​EEs]


Subaru...

The offficial Trunk Monkey Trilogy.
Youtube Rx6WB5YJia8
 
2020-06-06 9:23:26 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-06 9:42:14 PM  
I had to do a quick three point turn today and I noticed that I couldn't have done it nearly as fast in an automatic.  You can move a manual faster once you're used to it.
 
2020-06-06 9:44:00 PM  
Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?
 
2020-06-06 9:48:58 PM  

mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?


Or an Si hatch.
 
2020-06-06 9:51:32 PM  

mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?


Jesus would silently approve.
 
2020-06-06 9:58:07 PM  

Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]


The sad thing is that maybe 1 in 1000 wranglers are manual transmission. It is a jeep thing.

/the friends I know who have manual wranglers had to order them special
 
2020-06-06 10:13:50 PM  

McGrits: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

The sad thing is that maybe 1 in 1000 wranglers are manual transmission. It is a jeep thing.

/the friends I know who have manual wranglers had to order them special


I had to order my Tacoma to get a manual.  Took about a month.  Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.  I failed on doing my homework before I bought.  It's fun to drive as long as you don't need low end torque.  Which I wanted as it's a truck.  I have to put it in 4x4 low to just pull a small boat (17' Tracker) out of the lake.  I didn't have to do that with my old Nissan.
 
2020-06-06 10:26:53 PM  

BlueBox: McGrits: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

The sad thing is that maybe 1 in 1000 wranglers are manual transmission. It is a jeep thing.

/the friends I know who have manual wranglers had to order them special

I had to order my Tacoma to get a manual.  Took about a month.  Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.  I failed on doing my homework before I bought.  It's fun to drive as long as you don't need low end torque.  Which I wanted as it's a truck.  I have to put it in 4x4 low to just pull a small boat (17' Tracker) out of the lake.  I didn't have to do that with my old Nissan.


Why would you buy something with a petrol engine if you wanted low end torque?

It's like getting a two stroke motorcycle for touring or a racehorse to work the farm.
 
2020-06-06 10:32:05 PM  

mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?


The first car I ever bought was a 1983 manual Accord wagon. I bought it used, with about 100k miles already on it. I put over 120k MORE miles on that thing before it died, and it would have lasted longer if I hadn't driven it into the surf.
 
2020-06-06 10:37:05 PM  
Shame the car looks silly from the rear.
 
2020-06-06 10:37:38 PM  

dyhchong: BlueBox: McGrits: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

The sad thing is that maybe 1 in 1000 wranglers are manual transmission. It is a jeep thing.

/the friends I know who have manual wranglers had to order them special

I had to order my Tacoma to get a manual.  Took about a month.  Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.  I failed on doing my homework before I bought.  It's fun to drive as long as you don't need low end torque.  Which I wanted as it's a truck.  I have to put it in 4x4 low to just pull a small boat (17' Tracker) out of the lake.  I didn't have to do that with my old Nissan.

Why would you buy something with a petrol engine if you wanted low end torque?

It's like getting a two stroke motorcycle for touring or a racehorse to work the farm.


There are no diesel or electric small pickups available in the US with a manual?  Just guessing at what your point is here.
 
2020-06-06 10:43:17 PM  
Same relative model (the Hilux can also be configured with the same petrol motors as the Tacoma but no one buys those because why would you put a petrol engine on this kind of vehicle? It's destroys its utillity.):

Toyota Tacoma 2016+ Petrol
2.7L 120kW@5200 246Nm@3800
3.5L 207kW@6000 359Nm@4600

Toyota Hilux 2015+ Turbo Diesel
2.5L 107kW@3400 343Nm@1800-3400
3.0L 122kW@3400 343Nm@1600-3400

Diesels are literally made for low end torque across a large power band.
 
2020-06-06 10:44:21 PM  

BlueBox: There are no diesel or electric small pickups available in the US with a manual?  Just guessing at what your point is here.


Oh really? Why? That's really strange. It's the perfect tech for that class of vehicle.
 
2020-06-06 10:49:44 PM  

dyhchong: BlueBox: McGrits: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

The sad thing is that maybe 1 in 1000 wranglers are manual transmission. It is a jeep thing.

/the friends I know who have manual wranglers had to order them special

I had to order my Tacoma to get a manual.  Took about a month.  Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.  I failed on doing my homework before I bought.  It's fun to drive as long as you don't need low end torque.  Which I wanted as it's a truck.  I have to put it in 4x4 low to just pull a small boat (17' Tracker) out of the lake.  I didn't have to do that with my old Nissan.

Why would you buy something with a petrol engine if you wanted low end torque?

It's like getting a two stroke motorcycle for touring or a racehorse to work the farm.


Dad's 2000 automatic gasoline Excursion (not a Limited) with the DANA and Allison packages laughs at your $1,500+ services each year... in 2001. Did all the work himself... that's a lie. He made me do it.

/7 mpg city, 21 hwy (empty). 5 tons NVW heavy when fully wet. 7 ton towing, 2 ton in-body. 8'x4' sheets of 3/4" Weyerhauser Evergreen tickleboard 40-high behind the drivers/copilots seats while hauling minimum 3 tons of cabinets, tools, a full-size air compressor and a diesel generator in an 18' dually trailer.

//Best. Vehicle. Ever.
 
2020-06-06 10:51:03 PM  

dyhchong: BlueBox: There are no diesel or electric small pickups available in the US with a manual?  Just guessing at what your point is here.

Oh really? Why? That's really strange. It's the perfect tech for that class of vehicle.


I agree.
 
2020-06-06 10:55:35 PM  

dyhchong: BlueBox: There are no diesel or electric small pickups available in the US with a manual?  Just guessing at what your point is here.

Oh really? Why? That's really strange. It's the perfect tech for that class of vehicle.


As someone who would love a small pickup, especially with a little turbo diesel, tell me about it.

Trucks are flipping huge nowadays.  I want 90's sized small pickups again.
 
2020-06-06 10:57:42 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-06 11:07:10 PM  
I bought a used '86 Si Hatch back in 1989. Loved. That. Car. I live with few regrets but trading that in on a '95 Civic EX ranks up there.

/Redemption arrived in 2013 when I bought a new 6MT Accord. Glory be to the Honda gearbox Gods!
//Rickroll
 
2020-06-07 12:25:41 AM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: [Fark user image 500x843]


Given the popularity of velcro closers on shoes amongst millennials, I think we have a winning security device.
 
2020-06-07 2:06:49 AM  
Not a problem for me, I have a handy reminder
i.pinimg.comView Full Size


Though it sure is awkward shift from 3rd to 4th.
 
2020-06-07 2:46:58 AM  

mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?


Or the S2000 .
 
2020-06-07 8:48:36 AM  

mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?


They did....the TSX wagon....or that crosstour thingy.

The TSX was lovely (if a bit too upmarket)....the crosstour was an eyesore. Neither did all that well here in the states...
 
2020-06-07 9:28:48 AM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: [Fark user image 500x843]


Not wrong, but waiting until the cops are after you to learn to tie your shoes is a bad idea and will likely result in hilarity at your expense.
 
2020-06-07 9:37:12 AM  

Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image 425x268]


The only disadvantage I have found with driving a stick is valet parking
 
2020-06-07 10:18:22 AM  

Straight Outta Hate: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image 425x268]

The only disadvantage I have found with driving a stick is valet parking


Top 10 Valet Fails
Youtube AGree4n6vf8
 
2020-06-07 10:33:16 AM  

BlueBox: Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.


No Toyota pickup is using Atkinson cycle in the engine. That's reserved specifically for hybrids where the loss of torque gets you increased efficiency, and the torque can be replaced by the supplemental electric motor.
 
2020-06-07 10:36:20 AM  

dyhchong: Diesels are literally made for low end torque across a large power band.


Gasoline engines are increasingly made for low end torque across a wide power band with modern turbochargers that feature VNT, or dual-scroll turbines.

The problem is that Toyota has resisted turbocharging for gasoline engines as long as they possibly can. Their engineering principals at this time are: Turbochargers at cost and complexity, and reduce reliability at the same time. For as long as they can avoid it in the chase for better fuel economy, Toyota is holding off on turbocharging.
 
2020-06-07 10:39:23 AM  

dyhchong: Oh really? Why? That's really strange. It's the perfect tech for that class of vehicle.


1. Emissions restrictions are horrendously excessive in the USA. It's expensive to comply, and all the exhaust treatment systems are terrible at reliability: They constantly fail, throw engine codes, restrict power & speed when failed, and once out of warranty are obnoxiously expensive to get fixed IF you can find a decent tech to work on them. In addition to this, the power of diesel engines is detuned in the USA for this reason (Compare the Mazda diesel engine overseas to the CX-5 diesel sold in the USA for a good example).

2. Americans won't buy them. There is a very small, very vocal part of the market that constantly screams "We want diesel engine options!" and then nobody buys them. They're sold in such small numbers that it's not worth the engineering effort to bring them to the USA.
 
2020-06-07 10:41:05 AM  

Sasquach: mtrac: Nice headline, subby. As long as Honda is doing retro, can they make an Accord wagon?

They did....the TSX wagon....or that crosstour thingy.

The TSX was lovely (if a bit too upmarket)....the crosstour was an eyesore. Neither did all that well here in the states...


I own a 2012 Crosstour. What I really want is a wagon.
 
2020-06-07 10:46:47 AM  

BlueBox: Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.


Oh God, I hadn't realized Toyota is "simulating" an Atkinson cycle on their V-6 engines in the Tacoma. The torque peak is 4,600 RPM?!

There has to be a tuner out there that you can spend a few hundred dollars and get that engine greatly improved.
 
2020-06-07 11:04:21 AM  

Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]


Yeah yeah we know.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-07 12:18:10 PM  

dyhchong: Same relative model (the Hilux can also be configured with the same petrol motors as the Tacoma but no one buys those because why would you put a petrol engine on this kind of vehicle? It's destroys its utillity.):

Toyota Tacoma 2016+ Petrol
2.7L 120kW@5200 246Nm@3800
3.5L 207kW@6000 359Nm@4600

Toyota Hilux 2015+ Turbo Diesel
2.5L 107kW@3400 343Nm@1800-3400
3.0L 122kW@3400 343Nm@1600-3400

Diesels are literally made for low end torque across a large power band.


I wouldn't call that great for diesel either. My Fiat 1.4l MultiAir Turbo engine put out 280BHP@5700 and 300Ft/lb Torque at 3500 with some tuning and minor to medium upgrades. This engine is in some Jeeps and Darts also.

mrmopar5287: BlueBox: Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.

Oh God, I hadn't realized Toyota is "simulating" an Atkinson cycle on their V-6 engines in the Tacoma. The torque peak is 4,600 RPM?!

There has to be a tuner out there that you can spend a few hundred dollars and get that engine greatly improved.


Isn't it amazing how much potential there is in cars that is tuned down these days? From 170BHP to 280 with a larger intercooler and tuning for my Fiat. I'm currently building a 400BHP version that I hope to have ready by fall race season.
 
2020-06-07 12:36:58 PM  

psychosis_inducing: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

Yeah yeah we know.
[Fark user image 425x235]


Weak. Boomers don't need to steal cars.
 
2020-06-07 12:44:27 PM  

gyruss: psychosis_inducing: Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]

Yeah yeah we know.
[Fark user image 425x235]

Weak. Boomers don't need to steal cars.


Then why do we have boomer anti-theft devices?
 
2020-06-07 1:39:29 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-07 2:07:25 PM  

Ian Corrigible: [Fark user image image 425x268]


First off, weak trans. Only 5 gears and reverse is in the wrong spot.

Second, as someone who knows lots of millennials from Europe, it should be considered a American Anti-Theft device. I know plenty of Americans in the 50 and younger crowd that would struggle with a manual transmission, at best. Most millennials I know from Europe could easily drive a manual transmission.

/manual transmissions are still common elsewhere
 
2020-06-07 2:08:36 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: [Fark user image image 425x425]


Is that so your "girlfriend" (probably from Canada) can juice herself?
 
2020-06-07 4:19:46 PM  

Calehedron: Isn't it amazing how much potential there is in cars that is tuned down these days? From 170BHP to 280 with a larger intercooler and tuning for my Fiat. I'm currently building a 400BHP version that I hope to have ready by fall race season.


We live in a Golden Age of engine tuning. Building a hi-po engine used to mean you had to change the cam to change timing, but now that we have engines with variable valve timing, lift, duration, etc. we can tweak stock engines to greatly outperform base tuning.

Of course, manufacturers are using these abilities for fuel economy and emissions, and their build of an engine for 170hp is an engine that can be assumed to put that power out for the duration of warranty. Build it to 280hp and that's questionable, but unless it's for all-out racing there isn't anyone using 280hp for full-time engine performance.

A friend of mine has a 2018 Chevy Cruze that is the gasoline engine counterpart to my diesel. Stock performance is weak because GM took an engine where one of the RPO codes specifies "91 octane recommended" and the instruction manual says 87 octane is fine. Putting an engine monitor on the OBD port shows that ECU is pulling all kinds of timing to avoid detonation when running 87 octane in hot weather. He ran 3 tanks of 93 octane through the car as I recommended and now you can hammer it and it pulls strong clear through 100mph without any hiccups. He added an engine tune and it's easily making 200hp, up from about 150 stock.
 
2020-06-07 4:36:26 PM  

Tchernobog: dyhchong: BlueBox: There are no diesel or electric small pickups available in the US with a manual?  Just guessing at what your point is here.

Oh really? Why? That's really strange. It's the perfect tech for that class of vehicle.

As someone who would love a small pickup, especially with a little turbo diesel, tell me about it.

Trucks are flipping huge nowadays.  I want 90's sized small pickups again.


Ford is bringing back a compact pickup truck to its fleet.

I bet it tanks and maybe lasts three years - everyone wants bigger, and bigger trucks.
 
2020-06-07 4:44:43 PM  

mrmopar5287: We live in a Golden Age of engine tuning. Building a hi-po engine used to mean you had to change the cam to change timing, but now that we have engines with variable valve timing, lift, duration, etc. we can tweak stock engines to greatly outperform base tuning.


I was used to the 60s and 70s muscle until this car. Learning everything over and its been a blast. That 280BHP was too close to the 300 max the internals were rated for and I had a slight mishap last fall. #2 Piston ring land failure on the intake side and melted part of #3. Mechanic put the clamp from Turbo to Cat on wrong, clamp screw blocked the WG arm from fully opening. Boost spike of 40PSI peak and 36 sustained for a few seconds on a 26PSI tuned system shifting into 5th at full push.

So now I am working on a 400HP powerplant with forged everything and heat management out the wazoo. But still, 400HP out of a 1.4L engine in a 2400lb car and getting lighter! That's insane!
 
2020-06-07 5:02:50 PM  

Calehedron: So now I am working on a 400HP powerplant with forged everything and heat management out the wazoo.


Are you going to use a water-methanol injection system? Those work nice if you don't mind having another consumable that you have to refill from time to time.
 
2020-06-07 5:09:28 PM  

mrmopar5287: Calehedron: So now I am working on a 400HP powerplant with forged everything and heat management out the wazoo.

Are you going to use a water-methanol injection system? Those work nice if you don't mind having another consumable that you have to refill from time to time.


I am using one now and even it couldn't prevent that detonation at 40PSI. I just bought a bigger 2gal tank that has the pump mount built in, its so nice! I'm in the Phoenix valley and every thing I can get to lower AIT and heat soak is on the list. I even found a CO2 and mister system to spray the Intercooler to chill it further. Pricey but nothing compared to the overall I've spent on this car so far turning it into a beast.
 
2020-06-07 5:24:17 PM  

Calehedron: I even found a CO2 and mister system to spray the Intercooler to chill it further. Pricey but nothing compared to the overall I've spent on this car so far turning it into a beast.


NOS (Holley Nitrous Oxide Systems) makes systems where it can be used to chill the intercooler. Look into that to see if N2O can be refilled cheaper than CO2.

I would say propane is cheap enough to use as a sprayer but that also comes with the hazards of a flammable gas. BUT you can find setups to use propane as a liquid sprayed into the intake stream for both cooling and additional fuel.
 
2020-06-07 5:26:04 PM  

Calehedron: I even found a CO2 and mister system to spray the Intercooler to chill it further.


https://www.holley.com/products/nitro​u​s/intercooler_sprayers/parts/16034NOS
 
2020-06-07 5:29:35 PM  

mrmopar5287: BlueBox: Unfortunately I didn't realize an Atkinson cycle engine is really a bad match to a manual.

Oh God, I hadn't realized Toyota is "simulating" an Atkinson cycle on their V-6 engines in the Tacoma. The torque peak is 4,600 RPM?!

There has to be a tuner out there that you can spend a few hundred dollars and get that engine greatly improved.


I was just about to post a response.  I think this is the engine that Lexus used in the weird car that looks like a tennis shoe with the wrap around back window.

I've been too busy to look for a tuner.  I'm keeping it until I see the new Nissan.
 
2020-06-07 5:56:41 PM  

mrmopar5287: 1. Emissions restrictions are horrendously excessive in the USA. It's expensive to comply, and all the exhaust treatment systems are terrible at reliability: They constantly fail, throw engine codes, restrict power & speed when failed, and once out of warranty are obnoxiously expensive to get fixed IF you can find a decent tech to work on them. In addition to this, the power of diesel engines is detuned in the USA for this reason (Compare the Mazda diesel engine overseas to the CX-5 diesel sold in the USA for a good example).


Weird, I've now owned several diesels (1.6L Turbo Hyundai hatchback up to several medium trucks  - 6 tonne GVM sort of thing) and haven't had this issue at all. Three of the commuter vehicles have been Hyundais that have done no fewer than 300,000KM and still running great. Two of my trucks had done over 500,000KM without these issues.

Calehedron: dyhchong: Same relative model (the Hilux can also be configured with the same petrol motors as the Tacoma but no one buys those because why would you put a petrol engine on this kind of vehicle? It's destroys its utillity.):

Toyota Tacoma 2016+ Petrol
2.7L 120kW@5200 246Nm@3800
3.5L 207kW@6000 359Nm@4600

Toyota Hilux 2015+ Turbo Diesel
2.5L 107kW@3400 343Nm@1800-3400
3.0L 122kW@3400 343Nm@1600-3400

Diesels are literally made for low end torque across a large power band.


I wouldn't call that great for diesel either. My Fiat 1.4l MultiAir Turbo engine put out 280BHP@5700 and 300Ft/lb Torque at 3500 with some tuning and minor to medium upgrades. This engine is in some Jeeps and Darts also.


Lol, your Fiat wouldn't last five seconds pulling a large trailer.

What torque does it generate at 1600RPM?
Or would you rig up a system that attaches the trailer once you're up to speed?
Maybe rev it up to 3500RPM then drop the clutch when pulling an extra two tonnes?

Where the power band is is just as important as the output. Especially as the comparison was "low end" torque. And not just "torque".
 
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