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(Twitter)   Engineers neglect wind resistance when designing new sidewalk sides on the Golden Gate Bridge, causing it to sing, loudly and dissonantly   (twitter.com) divider line
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2751 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Jun 2020 at 7:44 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-06 1:08:59 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2020-06-06 1:30:23 AM  
That's pretty awesome. lol
 
2020-06-06 1:39:17 AM  
That's an amazing fark up
 
2020-06-06 1:44:57 AM  
The golden moan bridge?
 
2020-06-06 2:25:35 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up


In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?
 
Xai [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2020-06-06 2:51:41 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-06 2:53:31 AM  

Xai: [Fark user image 577x433]


BUB RUB!
 
2020-06-06 6:11:14 AM  
The wind cries Mary?
 
2020-06-06 6:29:14 AM  
They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé
Youtube XggxeuFDaDU
 
2020-06-06 6:51:02 AM  

jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[YouTube video: Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé]


Thank you jasonvatch.  I was about to go look for that clip myself.  Absolutely the first thing I thought of.  I was TOLD that engineers had learned from that incident... I find myself kinda doubting that with these singing sidewalks
 
2020-06-06 7:18:04 AM  

BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?


They were analyzing the changes to wind resistance, not auditory side effects.
 
2020-06-06 7:19:19 AM  

Otera: jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[YouTube video: Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé]

Thank you jasonvatch.  I was about to go look for that clip myself.  Absolutely the first thing I thought of.  I was TOLD that engineers had learned from that incident... I find myself kinda doubting that with these singing sidewalks


Really? You think the changes made to lower the bridge's wind cross-section were made in ignorance of the Tacoma Narrows bridge?
 
2020-06-06 7:28:07 AM  

qorkfiend: Otera: jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[YouTube video: Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé]

Thank you jasonvatch.  I was about to go look for that clip myself.  Absolutely the first thing I thought of.  I was TOLD that engineers had learned from that incident... I find myself kinda doubting that with these singing sidewalks

Really? You think the changes made to lower the bridge's wind cross-section were made in ignorance of the Tacoma Narrows bridge?


Resonance is resonance. Not saying it's in full ignorance, but resonance is one of the thing that they're supposed to be looking out for
 
2020-06-06 7:32:11 AM  

Otera: qorkfiend: Otera: jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[YouTube video: Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé]

Thank you jasonvatch.  I was about to go look for that clip myself.  Absolutely the first thing I thought of.  I was TOLD that engineers had learned from that incident... I find myself kinda doubting that with these singing sidewalks

Really? You think the changes made to lower the bridge's wind cross-section were made in ignorance of the Tacoma Narrows bridge?

Resonance is resonance. Not saying it's in full ignorance, but resonance is one of the thing that they're supposed to be looking out for


Which is why they made these changes to reduce that, showing that - unlike what Subby would have you believe - they were fully cognizant of it already.

Is it a shiatty side effect? Sure. Should they have caught it? Sure. Is any of that due to "ignorance of wind resistance" as subby puts it, or "ignorance of one of the most famous engineering failures in history" as some other posters put it? No. Just...no.
 
2020-06-06 8:08:05 AM  

BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?


The engineer likley didn't think about sound when he did the math for wind loading. I doubt they did detailed analysis beyond calculating surface area and checking a chart.
 
2020-06-06 8:28:13 AM  

BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?


Someone's got the audio on their computer turned down.

Probably got tired of all the auto play videos online.
 
2020-06-06 9:02:32 AM  
It's beautiful!

/ Listened to No Pussyfooting yesterday.
// Maybe keeps people off the bridge.
/// Get some tape, do some tuning!
 
2020-06-06 9:07:19 AM  
Do you want Cthulhu?  Because that's how you summon Cthulhu.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-06 9:13:34 AM  
I thought "oh maybe just a little humming." Holy shiat that's loud.
 
2020-06-06 9:20:52 AM  

solokumba: Do you want Cthulhu?  Because that's how you summon Cthulhu.

[Fark user image 850x850]


In this time line, Cthulhu would be an improvement...
 
2020-06-06 9:33:59 AM  
I just hope it doesn't start some serious problems. Get the right frequency and things will break. All we need in 2020.

/ Which means it will happen.
 
2020-06-06 9:34:06 AM  

solokumba: Do you want Cthulhu?  Because that's how you summon Cthulhu.

[Fark user image 850x850]


Only if it stayed underwater...  that size and weight, on dry land ?  Try a Cthulhu Pancake. One big "squish".
 
2020-06-06 9:38:41 AM  

wheresmypen: It's beautiful!

/ Listened to No Pussyfooting yesterday.
// Maybe keeps people off the bridge.
/// Get some tape, do some tuning!


I was just thinking that they should commission Vangelis to do an audio art project.  Get a complete album played for you while jogging across the bridge....
 
2020-06-06 9:46:53 AM  

solokumba: Do you want Cthulhu?  Because that's how you summon Cthulhu.

[Fark user image 850x850]


Someone on Fark (can't remember who) suggested that Cthulhu would be more terrifying if his skin was more like a cuttlefish than just plain green.
media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2020-06-06 9:54:43 AM  
What a lack of wind resistance may look like:
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

It didn't work out too well for Bugs, IIRC.
 
2020-06-06 10:06:23 AM  

Otera: qorkfiend: Otera: jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[YouTube video: Tacoma Bridge Collapse: The Wobbliest Bridge in the World? (1940) | British Pathé]

Thank you jasonvatch.  I was about to go look for that clip myself.  Absolutely the first thing I thought of.  I was TOLD that engineers had learned from that incident... I find myself kinda doubting that with these singing sidewalks

Really? You think the changes made to lower the bridge's wind cross-section were made in ignorance of the Tacoma Narrows bridge?

Resonance is resonance. Not saying it's in full ignorance, but resonance is one of the thing that they're supposed to be looking out for


They do.

They look for harmonic resonance at or near multiples of the natural frequency of the bridge. This is going to be somewhere in the range of 1-3Hz

Resonance at the frequency we hear here is so far outside what could move the bridge itself that it would never be considered.

From the looks of it it seems it's also the handrails themselves that are vibrating not the bridge - I reckon if you clocked one with a sledge hammer it would ring with a very similar sound. There's no way those would be analyzed for vibration themselves, just their effect on the overall movement of the bridge.
 
2020-06-06 10:25:29 AM  

ZMugg: What a lack of wind resistance may look like:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x638]
It didn't work out too well for Bugs, IIRC.


One of the rare times Bugs Bunny lost.

/ Daaaa loopa-doopa-loop ah doo pa doo -- every time I see Moscow Mitch.
 
2020-06-06 10:35:56 AM  
Did they hire people who they know, who are "engineers" for the first time?
Because there's been a lot of that going around.
 
2020-06-06 10:42:07 AM  
It's like an Am7 chord on the guitar. Cool.
 
2020-06-06 10:44:39 AM  

dodecahedron: It's like an Am7 chord on the guitar. Cool.


Play along with it. Go from Am7 to F. Melancholy. This isn't going to deter any suicides, that's for sure.
 
2020-06-06 10:44:55 AM  
And the bridge will become a big hit, get signed by an A&R guy, and end up on the Top 40.
 
2020-06-06 10:48:26 AM  
I'll be pedantic and point out that it is resonance, not dissonance, that causes the effect.
 
2020-06-06 10:50:27 AM  
Well, maybe they can fix it cheaply by measuring the sound frequencies and adding some damping to the rail every odd multiple of the frequenceis involved, or if that can't be figured out just add it at random intervals.
 
2020-06-06 10:56:50 AM  

dodecahedron: dodecahedron: It's like an Am7 chord on the guitar. Cool.

Play along with it. Go from Am7 to F. Melancholy. This isn't going to deter any suicides, that's for sure.


Don't B that way, G.
 
2020-06-06 11:06:39 AM  

ZMugg: solokumba: Do you want Cthulhu?  Because that's how you summon Cthulhu.

[Fark user image 850x850]

Someone on Fark (can't remember who) suggested that Cthulhu would be more terrifying if his skin was more like a cuttlefish than just plain green.
[media.giphy.com image 512x384] [View Full Size image _x_]


Reminds me of the mesmer fish from Subnautica
https://subnautica.fandom.com/wiki/Me​s​mer
 
2020-06-06 11:08:13 AM  

Xai: [Fark user image image 577x433]


Iss juss fo decoration, man.
 
2020-06-06 11:11:12 AM  

deadsanta: I'll be pedantic and point out that it is resonance, not dissonance, that causes the effect.


True. The dissonance is heard in the tone produced.
 
2020-06-06 11:31:21 AM  

BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?


That reminds me of a meeting I had at an old company (a leader in the market with decades of experience). They were behind schedule, preparing to launch a new product that had a sound design on paper and small-scale lab testing but no real-world or beta site evaluation. The sales team had been "pre-selling" it for a year regardless.
I was being vocal about the lack of testing and the potential repercussions.
I finally said, "This company should be doing the things or clients think we do."
/It launched anyway, without my vote
//First failure 6 months later
 
2020-06-06 11:31:33 AM  
Open up a back seat window in your car and you can get a little of that. In the clip there, that's an insane amount of noise. Is that a recent fix or has that been part of the game for years?
 
2020-06-06 11:41:23 AM  

jasonvatch: They can't claim ignorance on this one. They should have known better.

1940:
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/XggxeuFD​aDU]


They have two where the original one was. Spare?
CSB: my son used to live within sight of them. Have driven over them both.
 
2020-06-06 11:42:36 AM  

lindalouwho: Did they hire people who they know, who are "engineers" for the first time?
Because there's been a lot of that going around.


They gave it to the intern.
 
2020-06-06 11:49:18 AM  

yakmans_dad: Open up a back seat window in your car and you can get a little of that. In the clip there, that's an insane amount of noise. Is that a recent fix or has that been part of the game for years?


All my recent (read aerodynamic) vehicles get the "womp womp womp" thing going when you open a back window and don't crack a front window. If you let it can get so bad you can feel it in your ears as much as hear it. It gets caused by the shape drag of the car forming a vacuum that pulls air out the window, but the aerodynamic shape of the car won't allow air to just rush in to fill it... so it effectively sets up an air glugging effect like when you upend a bottle with no vent. Crack a front window and it goes away instantly. Fascinating stuff.

Anyways, I agree with all the people saying this is an unfortunate overlook that had nothing to do with the intended change and likely wouldn't get checked. There will probably be an easy fix, ie bolting something else on the outside of the hand rails to distribute the flow, or removing a vertical piece in each rail or something that will calm it down. Also fascinating stuff though.
 
2020-06-06 12:02:27 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: I was just thinking that they should commission Vangelis to do an audio art project.  Get a complete album played for you while jogging across the bridge....


Vangelis?

Alan Lamb would be a better choice.  An Australian composer who strung up a bunch of old telegraph wires, strapped contact mics to them, recorded the sounds, and then mixed them up to create an album.

Alan Lamb - Primal Image
Youtube eVXP_ZTpXIk

Warning:  Gets a bit on the level of Merzbow.

I also think a Japanese noise artist like Aube could have done a lot with these sounds, but unfortunately he's no longer with us.
 
2020-06-06 12:05:23 PM  

Target Builder: Resonance at the frequency we hear here is so far outside what could move the bridge itself that it would never be considered.


Also, from the sound, it's very clear that this is a whistle effect- the engineers were looking for the effect winds would have on the bridge. Why would they even consider the effect the bridge has on the wind? Bridge engineers aren't going to do acoustic modeling on the air.
 
2020-06-06 12:09:18 PM  

CrazyCurt: ZMugg: What a lack of wind resistance may look like:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x638]
It didn't work out too well for Bugs, IIRC.

One of the rare times Bugs Bunny lost.

/ Daaaa loopa-doopa-loop ah doo pa doo -- every time I see Moscow Mitch.


Cecil Turtle was the one character who always got the better of Bugs Bunny.
 
2020-06-06 12:11:31 PM  

BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?


Given that alot of things are only tested on virtual wind tunnels rather than actual ones unless it is absolutely required as its easier and cheaper to tweak a computer model and run it through the simulation again than to build multiple scale models for testing in an actual wind tunnel it is like they had no clue about the auditory issue as the softweare for sunch program likely does not even consider such things.

Given what this is and the likely low return on development costs for what ever company built the things i doubt these ever saw testing in a real wind tunnel.   More likely they had a set of specs to meet and ran computers models through a virtual wind tunnel until they met them while staying on budget.
 
2020-06-06 12:18:42 PM  
That's a pretty significant fark-up, boys. And a noise nuisance and environmental impact. They should be required to mitigate or tear it down.
 
2020-06-06 12:23:11 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?

The engineer likley didn't think about sound when he did the math for wind loading. I doubt they did detailed analysis beyond calculating surface area and checking a chart.


I'm fairly sure they checked for subsonic resonances.  The Tacoma Narrows failure is a classic study for MEs and Structural Es.  But yeah - having audio on in a cubefarm is frowned upon.
 
2020-06-06 12:26:15 PM  

cefm: That's a pretty significant fark-up, boys. And a noise nuisance and environmental impact. They should be required to mitigate or tear it down.


Anti-suicide device
 
2020-06-06 12:46:16 PM  

dionysusaur: Tr0mBoNe: BizarreMan: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That's an amazing fark up

In all of the computer models and wind tunnel studies they should have done in advance of the construction.  How did that get by?

The engineer likley didn't think about sound when he did the math for wind loading. I doubt they did detailed analysis beyond calculating surface area and checking a chart.

I'm fairly sure they checked for subsonic resonances.  The Tacoma Narrows failure is a classic study for MEs and Structural Es.  But yeah - having audio on in a cubefarm is frowned upon.


For multiples (in the n=1-3 range) of the natural frequencies of the dominant mode shapes of the superstructure, not of railings.

Nobody, anywhere, is checking handrails for frequencies, either due to whistling or resonance, so high they're they're audible.

I'm not even sure there's any software out there that would allow that sort of investigation outside of research labs.
 
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