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(Twitter)   The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is publicly laying the groundwork for a mutiny against the office of the "President". I cannot express how groundshaking this letter is in a Fark headline without bringing your mom into the discussion   (twitter.com) divider line
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6948 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jun 2020 at 2:17 AM (25 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-06-04 1:29:11 AM  
74 votes:

ox45tallboy: There's simply no one to explain what is actually being said here to Trump.


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2020-06-04 1:35:35 AM  
67 votes:

King Something: ox45tallboy: There's simply no one to explain what is actually being said here to Trump.

[Fark user image 480x360]


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"Mein Fuhrer..."

 
2020-06-04 3:18:48 AM  
66 votes:
I found an antifa to report to the FBI

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2020-06-03 10:52:24 PM  
41 votes:

revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.


Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?
 
2020-06-04 2:24:46 AM  
35 votes:

cherryl taggart: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?


Hah! Does the Russian military have even enough coal to run their telephones, let alone their carriers?
 
2020-06-03 11:05:53 PM  
35 votes:
Now Donnie can give him the nickname Mad Dog Milley.
 
2020-06-04 3:10:52 AM  
28 votes:

Cubansaltyballs: When secdef basically recanted and this letter and Mattis' letter...

I think something happened behind closed doors.

I think Trump said something so catastrophically alarming or gave an order so frightening they all got on the same page.

I am curious if he asked or started talking about tanks and Apache's and shooting protestors.

All these guys coming together like that didnt do it because of media pressure or from the shiat we saw on the news. Whatever it was, it was behind closed doors and scared the living shiat out of all these men.

One day we'll hear what it was and it'll terrify us, too.


Given that this is one of the leakiest administrations ever, we'll probably hear about it on Friday.
 
2020-06-04 12:42:17 AM  
25 votes:
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/and I'm spent
//night night
 
2020-06-04 2:32:56 AM  
23 votes:
I just wanted to briefly interrupt and tell subby I appreciated the headline. Been a while since one has made me laugh out loud. I'm kinda fond of the "your mom" ones.

/I have a juvenile sense of humor
 
2020-06-04 2:35:14 AM  
22 votes:

gopher321: Maybe this is why Pence has been scarce the past few days? Where is he, exactly?


Hopefully hooked up to a ventilator.
 
2020-06-04 2:40:15 AM  
20 votes:
WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY MOM AND WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT!?
 
2020-06-04 4:33:02 AM  
19 votes:
And just to clarify because sometimes I'm kind of subtle about it... I'm not like, a fan of president never ate a salad in his worthless disgusting puke existence because he grew up to look like his wretched mom that looked like a carney f*cked a cotton candy machine and produced a frizzy haired loser scumbag sack of shiat that has lived a life of rage because he's not a real man.
 
2020-06-04 3:44:39 AM  
18 votes:

Samfucious: WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY MOM AND WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT!?


About 9 months before you were born, I suppose.

/Luke, I am your father
 
2020-06-04 3:26:52 AM  
18 votes:
Oh yeah, him and what army?
 
2020-06-04 3:22:02 AM  
18 votes:

Samfucious: WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY MOM AND WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT!?


Dude, *everybody* knows it. The nice bagger with Down's syndrome, down at the Foodmart, knows it.
 
2020-06-04 3:03:53 AM  
17 votes:

mrparks: So this is what the GOP pivot looks like. Let Dumbtr*mp run things into the ground, and then swoop in and save us.

YAY!


Once again proving that for people like you, the problem was never with what Trump did but with which party he belonged too.

/ We also saw it when party-before-principles Democrats said people should rally behind Bloomberg if he won the primary.
// Thankfully that didn't come close to happening.
 
2020-06-04 2:58:40 AM  
16 votes:

OK So Amuse Me: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...

I do hope you are righter than right. My Dad was Air Force but he was out before he met my Mom so I don't really have any solid grounding in Military things.


Teehee, as a weirdo trying to decide if Pride will give me enough of an excuse to come out to my fam, I read this very, very differently than you intended it to begin with :-D
 
2020-06-04 2:29:46 AM  
15 votes:

maddog2030: SpockYouOut: How long until the miltary protects peaceful protestors from the police?

Thin Blue Line meets the Green Machine you say?


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2020-06-04 3:49:04 AM  
14 votes:
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2020-06-04 3:34:50 AM  
14 votes:

Brat E. Pants: I just wanted to briefly interrupt and tell subby I appreciated the headline. Been a while since one has made me laugh out loud. I'm kinda fond of the "your mom" ones.

/I have a juvenile sense of humor


We're all fond of your mom. Headlines I mean.
 
2020-06-04 3:18:41 AM  
14 votes:

ox45tallboy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

They aren't mercs.

They're the prison riot squad.

We've even got a thread about it.

https://www.fark.com/comments/10835341

Although honestly it's not much of an improvement.


You can buy drugs from them. Can't do that with mercs.
 
2020-06-04 8:08:28 AM  
13 votes:
Has anyone heard from Space Force on this matter?
 
2020-06-04 2:45:33 AM  
13 votes:
This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?
 
2020-06-04 2:41:07 AM  
13 votes:
Lot of reading between the lines going on here. Sounds more like he's pushing all accountability to the governors and saying anything the guardsmen do that is illegal or against the spirit of the constitution is therefore the governor's responsibility.

Echoes of Trump's coronavirus response, actually.
 
2020-06-04 2:37:10 AM  
11 votes:

Rent Party: No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.


While you're making things up that people are getting excited about a "military coup"  how about imagining me a steak or something...I'm hungry and lazy at the same time.
 
2020-06-04 3:24:15 AM  
9 votes:

Smoking GNU: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

That's some pretty damn shiatty design.


Heh, you want to hear shiatty, from 1962 to 1977, the code that unlocked the nukes was 00000000.
 
2020-06-04 3:30:20 AM  
8 votes:

mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?


Good thing they changed it from 00000000 before he was elected.
 
2020-06-04 3:24:21 AM  
8 votes:

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: SpockYouOut: How long until the miltary protects peaceful protestors from the police?

Soon


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2020-06-04 4:51:20 AM  
7 votes:

ox45tallboy: King Something: ox45tallboy: There's simply no one to explain what is actually being said here to Trump.

[Fark user image 480x360]

[Fark user image image 512x288]
"Mein Fuhrer..."


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Prince... Prince was unable to make the attack upon the protesters...
 
2020-06-04 4:48:30 AM  
7 votes:

erik-k: cherryl taggart: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?

Whether he does or not, it doesn't matter because the Russian military is in and near Russia and the American military is in America...


How's this for a nightmare? The US military refuses to back him up, and he asks Dom-Daddy Vlad for military help.  The MAGATS would all cheer because he's being tough and Maverick. The US military would give birth to a porcupine, breech presentation.
 
2020-06-04 4:38:06 AM  
7 votes:

Cubansaltyballs: I think the real life version of the Downfall bunker scene happened in the oval office last night.


Spoiler alert: Steiner doesn't attack.
 
2020-06-04 10:05:05 AM  
6 votes:

AnEasyTarget: What's the law in US constitution that says only an order of congress can direct troops on US soil. It's from late 1800s post US civil war.


The Grab The By the Posse Commitatus
 
2020-06-04 7:26:53 AM  
6 votes:

GoldSpider: I wonder how much coverage this is going to get in the mainstream press.


"President Trump today again declared his power and intent to use the military, including tanks, to crush protests in DC and around the country.  Others disagree."
 
2020-06-04 2:56:54 AM  
6 votes:

gopher321: Maybe this is why Pence has been scarce the past few days? Where is he, exactly?


He's been hiding with Trump in the White House basement.
 
2020-06-04 2:33:59 AM  
6 votes:

shastacola: scottydoesntknow: Holy shiat. Has this EVER happened? Have military commanders ever felt the need to send a letter like this basically saying "do not listen to this goddamn moron we have for a president"?

No, for about the 4th month in a row, we're in uncharted territory.


Dammit, Nathan! Stop breaking everything!
 
2020-06-04 10:28:14 AM  
5 votes:

Samfucious: WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT MY MOM AND WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT!?


Is your mom now, or has she ever been, a member of The Lemon Party?

/pics, or it didn't happen
 
2020-06-04 9:35:51 AM  
5 votes:

Smoking GNU: lolmao500: Boo_Guy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

That's rather disturbing to think about. Did they put their own little private army together to carry out their deeds in case the actual army tells them no?

That could turn incredibly bad.

Would it? The army would slaughter the fascist scumbags shooting at americans, it would save us a ton of money in lawyers and trials.

A gunbattle between the military and a  facist-takeover army loyal to the evil shouty yam of hate and chaos in DC? And you don't think it'd instantly spread all over the country with cries of "The military has betrayed dear leader" under the usual derp brigade? That's how you get 20 of insurgency and carbombings in your country.


If we've got an unrest modifier of greater than 15% or more we can spend prestige points to decrease the unrest. Prestige levels are low now anyway, who cares about another 20 points? After that we can just use admin points to get an extra diplomat to smooth things a bit with our trading partners. "I don't like supply lines" isn't going to work for this run since the continent is in control of like 9 trade nodes. We can always attempt to steer trade from our neighbor's, but with such low prestige they won't really go for it. We probably should have switched out Native Policy to "integrate" instead of "subjugate" but that's way too late now. All we can do is just try to maximize profits to pay back our loans.
 
2020-06-04 8:29:13 AM  
5 votes:

rightClick: mikalmd: Is it article 25 time yet ?

how do you plan on getting pence to cooperate to make this happen?


You'll have to find him first.
 
2020-06-04 6:37:03 AM  
5 votes:

somedude210: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

It gives me hope. The military was always the wildcard. Though I kinda want to see a fist fight break out between actual soldiers and Barr's little green men


One on one I'd put my money on Barr's little green men. Actual soldiers tend to spend more time making their beds than training hand to hand unless it's their hobby while prison guards beat the shiat out of people all the time.
 
2020-06-04 3:27:03 AM  
5 votes:

I want that sauce Morty!: apocryphaandmyth: ox45tallboy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

They aren't mercs.

They're the prison riot squad.

We've even got a thread about it.

https://www.fark.com/comments/10835341

Although honestly it's not much of an improvement.

Bringing the riot squad to a potential riot isn't stark raving madness.
Bringing in mercenaries sure would be.

Well a prison riot squad is probably used to being able to do things that you'd normally not get away with in full public view. However, the regular police are already shooting rubber bullets at people's eyes. So....


I'm not saying the prison riot squad is a measured, reasonable response to civil unrest.  I'm saying it's on the map.  It shares a border with territory that shares a border with reasonable.
 
2020-06-04 2:20:40 AM  
5 votes:
No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.
 
2020-06-03 10:53:57 PM  
5 votes:
My goodness! A strongly worded letter!

Like bringing an email to a gunfight, not going to matter when the thugs start killing protesters.
 
2020-06-04 7:21:16 AM  
4 votes:

gopher321: Maybe this is why Pence has been scarce the past few days? Where is he, exactly?


Hopefully, putting the final touches on a 25th Amendment document
 
2020-06-04 2:25:34 AM  
4 votes:
Has Trump called him Karen yet?
 
2020-06-03 10:36:32 PM  
4 votes:
For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over again over years do not interfere in or publicly speak about the political process or chain of command without an incrediblygood reason.  Here, GEN Milley has done both. Overtly.

Mattis's letter was a broadside against the office of the president.  This letter is damn near a nuke.
 
2020-06-04 9:54:38 AM  
3 votes:
Gosh, such a rebuke!  It sure is nice to see the military do jack shiat except wipe their asses with their oaths.
 
2020-06-04 9:44:26 AM  
3 votes:
I  have full confidence in these guys

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2020-06-04 9:43:13 AM  
3 votes:

silvervial: Snaps: I hope this is why the troops in DC seem so calm tonight, they don't have to worry about obeying insane orders.

I watched the seven hour live feed of that protest and the soldiers were pretty calm.

Most of them refused to look at the protesters and acknowledge their humanity, and there was one guy who looked like every fu*king stereotype of a alt-right hitler youth. Big blue eyes and all. I noted him, his expression of disdain barely held in check. How he refused to not only look at anyone in the eye, he wouldn't even look around at the scene in general. Black person after black person "walked the line" demanding respect and acknowledgement as a human being, but he didn't look once. I was getting more and more worried about him.

Then a white man, an older man, began to walk the line, holding up his military ID and declaring he was a veteran and he knew better than to face off against his own people when he was in uniform. He went up and down the line shaming them, and then stopped at Blue-Eyed Boy and told him the same things, directly to his face.

Blue-Eyed Boy blinked.

He suddenly started actually looking at people and the scene and the guys standing next to him and the people across from him.

And I felt a bit better. Blue-Eyed Boy seemed to have had a "come to Jesus moment" and I hope it sticks.


Wow. Quite an imagination you have there. That narrative didn't bubble out of your cauldron of stereotypes and theatrical drama at all.
 
2020-06-04 6:40:32 AM  
3 votes:

What the hell was that: King Something: https://twitter.com/ChiefNGB/status/12​68335177484419073

USAF General Joseph Lengyel  is siding with the protesters.

He retweeted Milley as well.

/I hate that retweeting has significance


"The general's Twitter account. "

*eye twitch*
 
2020-06-04 4:51:16 AM  
3 votes:

ansius: [image.newsvoice.com image 640x380]

I bet Milley didn't like being ambushed into being an extra in trump's ridiculous photo op.

But yes, the way I'm reading this is that this is instructions to his officers to remember to refuse orders that are illegal, unconstitutional, and unethical.


So yeah, a sh*tbag hypocrite: do as I say, not as I do. Again, f*ck this asshole with a rusty horseshoe.
 
2020-06-04 2:35:40 AM  
3 votes:
Approval rating by institution :
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/con​f​idence-institutions.aspx
The military : 73%
Supreme Court : 38%
Congress : 11%
The police : 53% (probably much lower than that today)
The just-us system : 24%

Trump : 42%


I say if the military were to move against Trump tomorrow if he gives illegal orders, they would have the backing of 3/4 of americans.
 
2020-06-04 2:29:36 AM  
3 votes:

GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.


Good point! That was extremely unusual. The NG getting replaced with prison guards for reasons unknown was baffling. The protestors should've hit them up for drugs, though. That's their side gig.

/ Now THAT would make for a photo.
 
2020-06-03 11:04:32 PM  
3 votes:

twistedknickers: My goodness! A strongly worded letter!

Like bringing an email to a gunfight, not going to matter when the thugs start killing protesters.


The pen is mightier than the sword and cover your ass I think is the idea here.
 
2020-06-04 6:54:14 PM  
2 votes:

Kazan: Klyukva: / We also saw it when party-before-principles Democrats said people should rally behind Bloomberg if he won the primary.

I didn't see a single democrat saying that.


Then you weren't reading the FARK politics tab.
 
2020-06-04 10:29:42 AM  
2 votes:

Smoking GNU: LrdPhoenix: Smoking GNU: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

That's some pretty damn shiatty design.

Heh, you want to hear shiatty, from 1962 to 1977, the code that unlocked the nukes was 00000000.

Yup, heard about that one already.


One of my favorites is where they used to store the cores before loading them into the bomb/airplane. In a shack at the end of the runway. Why yes, a bomber crashed into the shack.
 
2020-06-04 10:09:30 AM  
2 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-04 9:46:43 AM  
2 votes:

Halfabee64: chawco: yukichigai: Rent Party: No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.

Clarification: the military isn't going to stage a coup, but they've now made it clear they're going to uphold the law of the land above all else. that could be where it ends, but if anyone in the administration decides to demand the military perform some blatantly illegal action and, for example, stakes their legitimacy on their orders being followed, the military is clearly not going to take the action that upholds their legitimacy.

In other words, not a coup per se, but they're given a choice by Trump to either follow his orders or remove him from the White House there is now zero ambiguity as to which of those options they'll go for.

they don't have the legal authority to remove him from the White House. They can decline to follow his orders if they think they've is illegal, but that's all they can do.

Anything else is in fact a military coup. Only Congress can remove the president.

His cabinet can remove him under the 25th Amendment, but their too busy with their snouts in the trough to do anything about it.


they're
 
2020-06-04 9:24:31 AM  
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: joepennerlives: Shaggy_C: Lot of reading between the lines going on here. Sounds more like he's pushing all accountability to the governors and saying anything the guardsmen do that is illegal or against the spirit of the constitution is therefore the governor's responsibility.

Echoes of Trump's coronavirus response, actually.

Take another look at the letter.

Point #2 makes it pretty clear that the national guard is operating under the orders of state governors, full stop. On the one hand he says the troops uphold the constitution, and on the other he's saying the governors are the ones in charge. A bit of the old "look, we want to do our best, but if something goes wrong, those guys are to blame, not me."

Call me a cynic, but I never take anything from someone in Trump's orbit without immediate suspicion.


Perhaps he wanted the National Guard to understand that their governors might be issuing illegal orders, and those orders should not interfere with defending the Constitution and American citizens.
 
2020-06-04 9:17:23 AM  
2 votes:

somedude210: Koodz: somedude210: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

It gives me hope. The military was always the wildcard. Though I kinda want to see a fist fight break out between actual soldiers and Barr's little green men

One on one I'd put my money on Barr's little green men. Actual soldiers tend to spend more time making their beds than training hand to hand unless it's their hobby while prison guards beat the shiat out of people all the time.

NG maybe. Active duty folks, especially from Bragg or Drum? I wouldn't want to f*ck with them


Don't fark with us Drummies. We're tempered in Chemical Creek when it's -40 out.

/Chemical Creek eats the laces off your boots and turns the leather white
//parts of it glow at night in the summer
 
2020-06-04 9:10:00 AM  
2 votes:
I'm losing track here.

Is this unifying or dividing?
 
2020-06-04 7:14:46 AM  
2 votes:
I wonder how much coverage this is going to get in the mainstream press.
 
2020-06-04 6:44:38 AM  
2 votes:

quizzical: ox45tallboy: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...

What;s interesting to me is I don't think any of the Trump loyalists are savvy enough to understand what this is and what it means. There's simply no one to explain what is actually being said here to Trump.

Some will know.  But are they going to call out the chairman for simply stating that he swore to uphold the constitution?  They can't say boo without starting a conversation about why they think it is a bad thing.

The smart move is to say "of course we all support the constitution!" and pivot to a new talking point.  Trump will probably  fire him or demand his resignation by Friday.


For what?

Nothing the General states was in any way political, or even controversial. The Armed Forces swears and oath to protect the Constitution, the People of America, and follow lawful orders. In that order. And the lawful orders is baked right into the oath.

Trump has turned Twitter into a semi-official means of disseminating information to the chain of command.

Any call on the part of Trump for fire that General would require a pile of explaining that really would not help Trump's case.
 
2020-06-04 2:41:42 AM  
2 votes:

gopher321: Maybe this is why Pence has been scarce the past few days? Where is he, exactly?


According to my exhaustive five minutes of searching the internet he's planning a trip to Minneapolis to coincide with Obama's next week. No mention of what he's been doing outside of that for the last five days or so. Making some kind of attempt at outreach is the sort of thing he'd do if he was still being loyal to the administration or if he was preparing to get a battlefield promotion, so I don't think we can draw much from that. Keeping distance from the President on the other hand is just a good idea right now.
 
2020-06-03 10:49:46 PM  
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Holy shiat. Has this EVER happened? Have military commanders ever felt the need to send a letter like this basically saying "do not listen to this goddamn moron we have for a president"?


No, for about the 4th month in a row, we're in uncharted territory.
 
2020-06-05 12:02:57 AM  
1 vote:

Klyukva: Kazan: Klyukva: / We also saw it when party-before-principles Democrats said people should rally behind Bloomberg if he won the primary.

I didn't see a single democrat saying that.

Then you weren't reading the FARK politics tab.


I was, Vlad.
 
2020-06-05 12:02:32 AM  
1 vote:

anuran: foo monkey: ReaverZ: scottydoesntknow: Holy shiat. Has this EVER happened? Have military commanders ever felt the need to send a letter like this basically saying "do not listen to this goddamn moron we have for a president"?

MacArthur pretty much did.

He was relieved of his command and rightly so.  This time, I dunno.  Say what you want about Truman, but he wasn't raving lunatic.

Truman had also been a Captain in combat  back when units elected their officers. He knew the score. In his biography he said "I didn't fire MacArthur for being a stupid son of a biatch, which he was. If that were a crime half the generals and congressmen would be in jail. I fired him for disobeying his commanding officer."

If Truman or Eisenhower or Kennedy or Teddy Roosevelt were alive today and could see what the occupant of !600 Pennsylvania Avenue was doing....


Truman; "This administration is a stain on America. Everyone connected with it should be investigated and prosecuted for treason."

Eisenhower: "At the very least."

Kennedy; "One hundred percent, absolutely agree."

Roosevelt: "Screw that. I say we just shoot the bastards."

Eisenhower: "Yeah, I'm for that, too."
 
2020-06-04 1:06:39 PM  
1 vote:

TWX: For all the threads that postulate what would happen if Trump loses and refuses to acknowledge that he lost in November through Inaguration in January, this is all the proof that you need that Trump's Presidency would be over.  The military has just been told to adhere to their oath to the Constitution, to the people of the United States.


I just hope their understanding of the Constitution is to the *actual* Constitution and not some warped right-wing, Sovereign Citizen version.
 
2020-06-04 11:06:03 AM  
1 vote:

BeesNuts: AdrienVeidt: Gosh, such a rebuke!  It sure is nice to see the military do jack shiat except wipe their asses with their oaths.

This is an official public statement from one of the highest ranking military officials in our country explicitly instructing every member of every branch of the armed service to ... not do that.


And having jack shiat for effect because their oaths mean shiat.
 
2020-06-04 10:26:28 AM  
1 vote:
I hate to bust up the circlejerk, but support for Trump remains high among the enlisted. Talking about oaths and service to the community is nice, but it's just talk. Historically, the involvement of the National Guard has not gone well for us. If the top brass is hoping that troops will choose them over their pyrite idol, they're probably doomed to disappointment.
 
2020-06-04 10:21:22 AM  
1 vote:

AdrienVeidt: Gosh, such a rebuke!  It sure is nice to see the military do jack shiat except wipe their asses with their oaths.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-06-04 10:18:56 AM  
1 vote:

Artisan Sandwich: silvervial: Snaps: I hope this is why the troops in DC seem so calm tonight, they don't have to worry about obeying insane orders.

I watched the seven hour live feed of that protest and the soldiers were pretty calm.

Most of them refused to look at the protesters and acknowledge their humanity, and there was one guy who looked like every fu*king stereotype of a alt-right hitler youth. Big blue eyes and all. I noted him, his expression of disdain barely held in check. How he refused to not only look at anyone in the eye, he wouldn't even look around at the scene in general. Black person after black person "walked the line" demanding respect and acknowledgement as a human being, but he didn't look once. I was getting more and more worried about him.

Then a white man, an older man, began to walk the line, holding up his military ID and declaring he was a veteran and he knew better than to face off against his own people when he was in uniform. He went up and down the line shaming them, and then stopped at Blue-Eyed Boy and told him the same things, directly to his face.

Blue-Eyed Boy blinked.

He suddenly started actually looking at people and the scene and the guys standing next to him and the people across from him.

And I felt a bit better. Blue-Eyed Boy seemed to have had a "come to Jesus moment" and I hope it sticks.

Wow. Quite an imagination you have there. That narrative didn't bubble out of your cauldron of stereotypes and theatrical drama at all.


Go fark yourself. That's what happened right on my computer screen. EABOD you twit.
 
2020-06-04 10:10:19 AM  
1 vote:

AdrienVeidt: Gosh, such a rebuke!  It sure is nice to see the military do jack shiat except wipe their asses with their oaths.


Nice bomb throw. Good height, but terrible distance. Gotta work on your throwing arm.
 
2020-06-04 9:01:03 AM  
1 vote:
That he was asked / ordered to bomb LIBERAL** cities.

Typo.
 
2020-06-04 8:19:33 AM  
1 vote:

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of

FnkyTwn: Trump either tries to play this off like 'of course we believe in free speech, i directed him to say that', or he's removed as Chairman. Probably being removed, because Trump never likes anybody who works for him saying negative shiat about him. It might not be this week, but it will be before Trump is out of office.


Of course, nowhere in this letter does it actually mention Trump, just an exhortation to uphold American ideals.  Sure, potato, potahto, but still.
 
2020-06-04 8:07:36 AM  
1 vote:

bughunter: BadReligion: JustSurfin: "The fate of their democracy is now in the hands of the Generals" is not a sentence I ever expected to write about America. Yet, there it is."

https://twitter.com/tomperrine/status/​1267677198615343105

Because the elected civilian lead ship has turned against the civilians.

Jesus farking Christ.  (Yes, that will be filtered)

That sounds like Egypt under Morsi, after they kicked out Mubarak.

Now look what they've got.


A not-terrorist in charge? Coptic Christians living slightly more peacefully than before? Stability with Israel?

/You seriously want Morsi back over Al-Sisi?
 
2020-06-04 7:41:37 AM  
1 vote:

Kazan: Klyukva: / We also saw it when party-before-principles Democrats said people should rally behind Bloomberg if he won the primary.

I didn't see a single democrat saying that.


That particular poster smells like borscht. With cranberries. Treat him accordingly.
 
2020-06-04 7:33:15 AM  
1 vote:

Kazan: Klyukva: / We also saw it when party-before-principles Democrats said people should rally behind Bloomberg if he won the primary.

I didn't see a single democrat saying that.


Just more cowardly conservative projection. Pay the bootlicker no mind.
 
2020-06-04 6:23:13 AM  
1 vote:

Stupid Guitar: Cubansaltyballs: When secdef basically recanted and this letter and Mattis' letter...

I think something happened behind closed doors.

I think Trump said something so catastrophically alarming or gave an order so frightening they all got on the same page.

I am curious if he asked or started talking about tanks and Apache's and shooting protestors.

All these guys coming together like that didnt do it because of media pressure or from the shiat we saw on the news. Whatever it was, it was behind closed doors and scared the living shiat out of all these men.

One day we'll hear what it was and it'll terrify us, too.

Given that this is one of the leakiest administrations ever, we'll probably hear about it on Friday.


This post made me realize that Trump is likely just as cheap about the diapers he buys as he is his suits, and with the same lack of concern whether they fit.
 
2020-06-04 4:42:44 AM  
1 vote:

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...


Yeah. F*cking hypocrite. F*ck this sh*tbag.
 
2020-06-04 4:40:22 AM  
1 vote:

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...


Wasn't Milley involved with donnie's photo stunt the other night? If so, this seems a little bit hypocritical.
 
2020-06-04 4:34:04 AM  
1 vote:

joepennerlives: Shaggy_C: Lot of reading between the lines going on here. Sounds more like he's pushing all accountability to the governors and saying anything the guardsmen do that is illegal or against the spirit of the constitution is therefore the governor's responsibility.

Echoes of Trump's coronavirus response, actually.

Take another look at the letter.


Point #2 makes it pretty clear that the national guard is operating under the orders of state governors, full stop. On the one hand he says the troops uphold the constitution, and on the other he's saying the governors are the ones in charge. A bit of the old "look, we want to do our best, but if something goes wrong, those guys are to blame, not me."

Call me a cynic, but I never take anything from someone in Trump's orbit without immediate suspicion.
 
2020-06-04 4:05:12 AM  
1 vote:

twistedknickers: My goodness! A strongly worded letter!

Like bringing an email to a gunfight, not going to matter when the thugs start killing protesters.


strange. why exactly is it that SO many old, OLD friends are just soooo....."conservative", slimy, ignorant, and hateful when it comes to the freedoms that make america great?  i think those are the adjectives i was grasping for! when it comes to the old old -and seldom seen- dear friends.....

it's JUST SO WEIRD.......
 
2020-06-04 3:53:52 AM  
1 vote:

GWSuperfan: Cubansaltyballs: Definitely the officer corps.

The rank and file... probably not.

Eh, I know plenty of lower-level officers and senior enlisted and W-Xes that will be on the friction point between command and the actual boots on the ground. Most of them are horrified at the prospect of even being put in their current position, and will likely balk at relaying orders that they think might be illegal.


I only know a few active ones. I was chatting with one of them. Asked him what he thought. He brushed it off as "never gonna happen so don't fret about it" kind of thing.

He knows how bad it would be. We're not a 3rd world country. We've got tons of guns and resources that would make the Iraqi insurgency look like a petting zoo. He just doesn't want to think about those two awful awful choices... refuse orders or get blown up by his countrymen with homemade bombs in 3d printed drones.
 
2020-06-04 3:31:55 AM  
1 vote:

Smoking GNU: lolmao500: Boo_Guy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

That's rather disturbing to think about. Did they put their own little private army together to carry out their deeds in case the actual army tells them no?

That could turn incredibly bad.

Would it? The army would slaughter the fascist scumbags shooting at americans, it would save us a ton of money in lawyers and trials.

A gunbattle between the military and a  facist-takeover army loyal to the evil shouty yam of hate and chaos in DC? And you don't think it'd instantly spread all over the country with cries of "The military has betrayed dear leader" under the usual derp brigade? That's how you get 20 of insurgency and carbombings in your country.


Good. Burn out the hornets.
 
2020-06-04 3:27:09 AM  
1 vote:

Smoking GNU: lolmao500: Boo_Guy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

That's rather disturbing to think about. Did they put their own little private army together to carry out their deeds in case the actual army tells them no?

That could turn incredibly bad.

Would it? The army would slaughter the fascist scumbags shooting at americans, it would save us a ton of money in lawyers and trials.

A gunbattle between the military and a  facist-takeover army loyal to the evil shouty yam of hate and chaos in DC? And you don't think it'd instantly spread all over the country with cries of "The military has betrayed dear leader" under the usual derp brigade? That's how you get 20 of insurgency and carbombings in your country.


I am OK with this. It is the only way I can see to cut out the cancer and cauterize the wound. Fox and Sinclair et al have pushed things too far anything else. And I think the Trumpers will not last that long.
 
2020-06-04 3:27:07 AM  
1 vote:

BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.


Oh yes there are.

We've averted WWIII on multiple occasions when verified orders came through but the guys on watch wouldn't turn the keys. The orders turned out to be screwups, but it's only because those orders were disobeyed that we aren't in Fallout 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_​o​f_nuclear_close_calls

I've got faith in the system. American watch guys may have been in their share of  trouble in the past with the testing scandals and what not, but they do have access to current events. Literally none of them want to start WWIII, and I think they'll have a grasp on the situation if the orders ever do come through.
 
2020-06-04 3:22:13 AM  
1 vote:

SpockYouOut: How long until the miltary protects peaceful protestors from the police?


Soon
 
2020-06-04 3:20:07 AM  
1 vote:

ox45tallboy: GardenWeasel: Maybe this is the real reason why Barr bought mercs and DOJ  squads to DC.

They aren't mercs.

They're the prison riot squad.

We've even got a thread about it.

https://www.fark.com/comments/10835341

Although honestly it's not much of an improvement.


Bringing the riot squad to a potential riot isn't stark raving madness.
Bringing in mercenaries sure would be.
 
2020-06-04 3:19:59 AM  
1 vote:

Cubansaltyballs: When secdef basically recanted and this letter and Mattis' letter...

I think something happened behind closed doors.

I think Trump said something so catastrophically alarming or gave an order so frightening they all got on the same page.

I am curious if he asked or started talking about tanks and Apache's and shooting protestors.

All these guys coming together like that didnt do it because of media pressure or from the shiat we saw on the news. Whatever it was, it was behind closed doors and scared the living shiat out of all these men.

One day we'll hear what it was and it'll terrify us, too.


Mattis isn't behind said doors these days. And SecDef is just covering his ass.
 
2020-06-04 2:35:12 AM  
1 vote:

fragMasterFlash: Has Trump called him Karen yet?


If you were paying attention, you would know that Karen is still escalating her feud with that one white guy alone holding a black lives matter sign in Florida. She's busy at the moment but I'm sure she'll get right on it, seeing how she has almost unlimited time to be a busy body and demand that she be respected about EVERYTHING, ALWAYS!
 
2020-06-04 1:54:16 AM  
1 vote:
So...quick question.  Can anyone track down a digitized copy of this?  I think I'd like to read it:

https://catalog.princeton.edu/catalog​/​dsp01cc08hh28h

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2020-06-04 12:16:36 AM  
1 vote:

twistedknickers: My goodness! A strongly worded letter!

Like bringing an email to a gunfight, not going to matter when the thugs start killing protesters.


The way I read it, the soldiers that have orders to escort police will not accept orders to attack peaceful civilians, and might even intervene if cops get out of line.  So yeah, this is kind of a big deal.
 
2020-06-03 11:30:34 PM  
1 vote:
How long until the miltary protects peaceful protestors from the police?
 
2020-06-03 11:06:24 PM  
1 vote:
I hope this is why the troops in DC seem so calm tonight, they don't have to worry about obeying insane orders.
 
2020-06-03 11:05:10 PM  
1 vote:
Maybe this is why Pence has been scarce the past few days? Where is he, exactly?
 
2020-06-03 10:51:26 PM  
1 vote:
History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.
 
2020-06-03 10:45:13 PM  
1 vote:

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...


You speak true.

I have to wonder how many JAG people he had working on this.  You know he didn't just write this off the cuff, it's too good. As you point out, this lays the groundwork for a UCMJ-compliant refusal to take orders.

Now let's see how many individual officers refuse.
 
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