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(Twitter)   The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is publicly laying the groundwork for a mutiny against the office of the "President". I cannot express how groundshaking this letter is in a Fark headline without bringing your mom into the discussion   (twitter.com) divider line
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6941 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jun 2020 at 2:17 AM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-06-04 4:09:50 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Holy shiat. Has this EVER happened? Have military commanders ever felt the need to send a letter like this basically saying "do not listen to this goddamn moron we have for a president"?


The Revolt of the Admirals

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt​_of_the_Admirals#:~:text=A%20Cold%20Wa​r%20incident%20known,Secretary%20of%20​Defense%20Louis%20A.
 
2020-06-04 4:10:08 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: stoli n coke: Cubansaltyballs: When secdef basically recanted and this letter and Mattis' letter...

I think something happened behind closed doors.

I think Trump said something so catastrophically alarming or gave an order so frightening they all got on the same page.

I am curious if he asked or started talking about tanks and Apache's and shooting protestors.

All these guys coming together like that didnt do it because of media pressure or from the shiat we saw on the news. Whatever it was, it was behind closed doors and scared the living shiat out of all these men.

One day we'll hear what it was and it'll terrify us, too.

He wanted troops to gun down protesters like his personal death squad. Then, he probably proposed airstrikes on black majority neighborhoods in major cities.

That teargas photo op showed the generals why you don't let a toddler play with matches.

With any luck, Two Scoops' little stunt just cost him the United States military.

Definitely the officer corps.

The rank and file... probably not.

But we've got like 150 more days of tiny dick wrapped in a bad suit with his face covered makeup from the  thousand island dressing collection who sees every govt asset, especially the military as his own props for his campaign. And to make that limp-dick coward piece of rotting shiat feel like a man for the first time since he raped that 7th grader at Jeff's rape menagerie.


Rank and file's personal opinions don't matter.

First, enlisted military is about 40% black and Hispanic. I wouldn't count on their MAGAt loyalty.

Second, the general's letter, along with setting the groundwork for a possible mutiny, was a thinly veiled warning to the entire Army, of which the general is the highest ranking member. It tells them that anyone who issues or follows an illegal order will be put under Leavenworth.

That's going to cool out any Private Dipshiats that think they're going to go all Rambo on the protesters.
 
2020-06-04 4:11:23 AM  
Dear Republicans,

A pretty damn good case was made that your president was installed with Russian help.  And there is additional evidence to prove this that hasn't seen the light of day.  And there are actions he has taken already that concretely show he places Putin's demands over America.  You had a chance to rectify this state of affairs, but chose not to do anything.  You chose poorly.  Fark off.  If shiat gets real, I hope you all find yourself in the brig.
 
2020-06-04 4:13:15 AM  

ox45tallboy: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

Oh yes there are.

We've averted WWIII on multiple occasions when verified orders came through but the guys on watch wouldn't turn the keys. The orders turned out to be screwups, but it's only because those orders were disobeyed that we aren't in Fallout 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o​f_nuclear_close_calls

I've got faith in the system. American watch guys may have been in their share of  trouble in the past with the testing scandals and what not, but they do have access to current events. Literally none of them want to start WWIII, and I think they'll have a grasp on the situation if the orders ever do come through.


Even if we don't start it, maybe someone else would.
 
2020-06-04 4:16:23 AM  
I think the real life version of the Downfall bunker scene happened in the oval office last night.
 
2020-06-04 4:18:44 AM  

quo vadimus: OK So Amuse Me:

quo vadimus: I do hope you are righter than right. My Dad was Air Force but he was out before he met my Mom so I don't really have any solid grounding in Military things.

Teehee, as a weirdo trying to decide if Pride will give me enough of an excuse to come out to my fam, I read this very, very differently than you intended it to begin with :-D


I think we all tint the words we see with our own colors and you saw something pertinent to your situation, even if it was just the way I stacked the words. It didn't hurt my words for you to see them that way. And, good luck with your decision, whichever way you decide. I hope your family is supportive when you do tell them.
 
2020-06-04 4:19:35 AM  
Cubansaltyballs:

He knows how bad it would be. We're notweren't a 3rd world country. We've got tons of guns and resources that would make the Iraqi insurgency look like a petting zoo. He just doesn't want to think about those two awful awful choices... refuse orders or get blown up by his countrymen with homemade bombs in 3d printed drones.

Hope I didn't FTFY. Really, really hope.
 
2020-06-04 4:21:49 AM  
I am OK with this.

Despite the perspective of some great distance (and all the bravery of being well out of range) I reckon that, overall, Americans as a whole are tired of the Trump sh*tshow, and the military is no different.

What this tells me is that cooler heads will ultimately prevail.
 
2020-06-04 4:23:48 AM  

king of vegas: ox45tallboy: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

Oh yes there are.

We've averted WWIII on multiple occasions when verified orders came through but the guys on watch wouldn't turn the keys. The orders turned out to be screwups, but it's only because those orders were disobeyed that we aren't in Fallout 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o​f_nuclear_close_calls

I've got faith in the system. American watch guys may have been in their share of  trouble in the past with the testing scandals and what not, but they do have access to current events. Literally none of them want to start WWIII, and I think they'll have a grasp on the situation if the orders ever do come through.

Even if we don't start it, maybe someone else would.


The persistent story is that, during the dark days of Watergate, instructions were sent out to ignore launch directives without verification from an independent source.
 
2020-06-04 4:28:15 AM  

anuran: Cubansaltyballs:

He knows how bad it would be. We're notweren't a 3rd world country. We've got tons of guns and resources that would make the Iraqi insurgency look like a petting zoo. He just doesn't want to think about those two awful awful choices... refuse orders or get blown up by his countrymen with homemade bombs in 3d printed drones.

Hope I didn't FTFY. Really, really hope.


Nah. We're a first world country that also includes southern shiathole states and 3rd world rural states that usually act as a ballast but are sometimes repurposed to be an anchor.

After the pedo goblin whose mouth is too small for his face and has hands smaller than his 12 yr old son and raped a 7th grader is gone... We'll right the ship.

Seriously, though. Look up the pics. Barron has bigger hands than the fat sack of crap that is little more than a Crushed Dyson Adderall model 3 with a broke dick and lifts in his shoes
 
2020-06-04 4:32:48 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: FightDirector: Cubansaltyballs: FightDirector: shpritz: It's possible. But that's a lot of assumption. I think Mattis is just reacting to more or less what we're all seeing. Trump said in public that he wants the military to quell the protests. You don't need any inside information to come to the conclussions that Mattis came to.

Quick point.  Evidently there are several other publicly released memos as well. This is just the highest-priority one.  Here are two of them.  Note that these are all coming out essentially simultaneously, which would indicate to me a smaller degree of coincidence that you're ascribing.

[Fark user image image 850x967]

[Fark user image image 850x1097]

I've got my hunch. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

But I just don't see all them doing that because of what they saw on the news.

For clarity, I was supporting your view.  I think that of the various theories ascribed thus far, yours is probably the closest to being correct.  Someone high up in the civilian command structure said or did something, and given the only faster-than-light communication method known to man is the military rumor mill, word of that flashed around the military as they heard what they might be expected to do.  There's too many memos all hitting the same rhetorical points, in too short a time, and SecDef's flip is too fast, to be the result of media or public pressure: it almost has to be an internal matter.

Exactly.

I thought you were agreeing they all  saw the same news report and took it upon themselves to do wild shiat.

Something really crazy happened. We'll find out one day. Like all the times when we found out how close we came to nuclear war 20 years after the event.

It couldn't just be that he said something dumb. No one would care. His dumb crazy thing probably started moving and it freaked everyone out.


I think you're both right, and they responded to him that they couldn't do what he suggested, that it's illegal, unconstitutional, human and civil rights violating and abuse of military, etc. and Trump responded that he didn't care, do it anyway, causing this reaction.
 
2020-06-04 4:33:02 AM  
And just to clarify because sometimes I'm kind of subtle about it... I'm not like, a fan of president never ate a salad in his worthless disgusting puke existence because he grew up to look like his wretched mom that looked like a carney f*cked a cotton candy machine and produced a frizzy haired loser scumbag sack of shiat that has lived a life of rage because he's not a real man.
 
2020-06-04 4:33:14 AM  

mr intrepid: king of vegas: ox45tallboy: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

Oh yes there are.

We've averted WWIII on multiple occasions when verified orders came through but the guys on watch wouldn't turn the keys. The orders turned out to be screwups, but it's only because those orders were disobeyed that we aren't in Fallout 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o​f_nuclear_close_calls

I've got faith in the system. American watch guys may have been in their share of  trouble in the past with the testing scandals and what not, but they do have access to current events. Literally none of them want to start WWIII, and I think they'll have a grasp on the situation if the orders ever do come through.

Even if we don't start it, maybe someone else would.

The persistent story is that, during the dark days of Watergate, instructions were sent out to ignore launch directives without verification from an independent source.


Yeah, there's that, but I mean maybe Russia or China or wherever. They don't even need to send a nuke at us, if they drop a nuke anywhere in the world it could set off a chain reaction.
 
2020-06-04 4:34:04 AM  

joepennerlives: Shaggy_C: Lot of reading between the lines going on here. Sounds more like he's pushing all accountability to the governors and saying anything the guardsmen do that is illegal or against the spirit of the constitution is therefore the governor's responsibility.

Echoes of Trump's coronavirus response, actually.

Take another look at the letter.


Point #2 makes it pretty clear that the national guard is operating under the orders of state governors, full stop. On the one hand he says the troops uphold the constitution, and on the other he's saying the governors are the ones in charge. A bit of the old "look, we want to do our best, but if something goes wrong, those guys are to blame, not me."

Call me a cynic, but I never take anything from someone in Trump's orbit without immediate suspicion.
 
2020-06-04 4:38:06 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: I think the real life version of the Downfall bunker scene happened in the oval office last night.


Spoiler alert: Steiner doesn't attack.
 
2020-06-04 4:40:22 AM  

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...


Wasn't Milley involved with donnie's photo stunt the other night? If so, this seems a little bit hypocritical.
 
2020-06-04 4:42:44 AM  

FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...


Yeah. F*cking hypocrite. F*ck this sh*tbag.
 
2020-06-04 4:45:14 AM  

cherryl taggart: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?


Whether he does or not, it doesn't matter because the Russian military is in and near Russia and the American military is in America...
 
2020-06-04 4:45:53 AM  

TwowheelinTim: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and ov ...


I get the impression that is what triggered it, at least partly.
 
2020-06-04 4:46:08 AM  
The Hero tag has seldom been more deserved
 
2020-06-04 4:47:05 AM  
image.newsvoice.comView Full Size


I bet Milley didn't like being ambushed into being an extra in trump's ridiculous photo op.

But yes, the way I'm reading this is that this is instructions to his officers to remember to refuse orders that are illegal, unconstitutional, and unethical.
 
2020-06-04 4:48:30 AM  

erik-k: cherryl taggart: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?

Whether he does or not, it doesn't matter because the Russian military is in and near Russia and the American military is in America...


How's this for a nightmare? The US military refuses to back him up, and he asks Dom-Daddy Vlad for military help.  The MAGATS would all cheer because he's being tough and Maverick. The US military would give birth to a porcupine, breech presentation.
 
2020-06-04 4:50:06 AM  

BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.


I sincerely hope that some general in DC has contacted whomever is on the receiving end of the football with a "call me if your thing starts beeping" order. Yeah, against protocol in ordinary times but these are not ordinary times.
 
2020-06-04 4:51:16 AM  

ansius: [image.newsvoice.com image 640x380]

I bet Milley didn't like being ambushed into being an extra in trump's ridiculous photo op.

But yes, the way I'm reading this is that this is instructions to his officers to remember to refuse orders that are illegal, unconstitutional, and unethical.


So yeah, a sh*tbag hypocrite: do as I say, not as I do. Again, f*ck this asshole with a rusty horseshoe.
 
2020-06-04 4:51:20 AM  

ox45tallboy: King Something: ox45tallboy: There's simply no one to explain what is actually being said here to Trump.

[Fark user image 480x360]

[Fark user image image 512x288]
"Mein Fuhrer..."


Fark user imageView Full Size

Prince... Prince was unable to make the attack upon the protesters...
 
2020-06-04 4:55:30 AM  

anuran: erik-k: cherryl taggart: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

Question is does he still have the backing of the Russian military?

Whether he does or not, it doesn't matter because the Russian military is in and near Russia and the American military is in America...

How's this for a nightmare? The US military refuses to back him up, and he asks Dom-Daddy Vlad for military help.  The MAGATS would all cheer because he's being tough and Maverick. The US military would give birth to a porcupine, breech presentation.


Russia's got their own problems right now with Covid tearing through Moscow and the price of oil, their economic backbone, in the shiatter. They don't have any troops to spare. That's why they wanted Two Scoops to have our troops do their dirty work in the Middle East.
 
2020-06-04 5:10:47 AM  

TwowheelinTim: ansius: [image.newsvoice.com image 640x380]

I bet Milley didn't like being ambushed into being an extra in trump's ridiculous photo op.

But yes, the way I'm reading this is that this is instructions to his officers to remember to refuse orders that are illegal, unconstitutional, and unethical.

So yeah, a sh*tbag hypocrite: do as I say, not as I do. Again, f*ck this asshole with a rusty horseshoe.


Do you think that an active duty military officer gets a choice when the CinC says "follow me for a walk?"

Officers of the United States military are required to refuse unlawful orders, but the moral degradation of being a prop for one of the Traitor's PR stunts does not rise to the level of an unlawful order.
 
2020-06-04 5:14:51 AM  
Fake news witch hoax so-called General!  He's fired!
 
2020-06-04 5:18:05 AM  

King Something: https://twitter.com/ChiefNGB/status/1​2​68335177484419073

USAF General Joseph Lengyel  is siding with the protesters.


He retweeted Milley as well.

/I hate that retweeting has significance
 
2020-06-04 5:19:00 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

I have to wonder how many JAG people he had working on this.


Perhaps as many as the number of JAGoffs working on Trump's Tinyman Square speech!
 
2020-06-04 5:20:39 AM  
Holy sheerot. This is huge. Now I want to see a similar letter from the commander of NORTHCOM, which is the actual combatant command that covers the US. In other words he has actual control of the troops and firepower.

/an interesting aside, he's a 4 star Air Force General and I believe he was born in Canada, so he'll be very polite.
 
2020-06-04 5:23:36 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: FightDirector: Cubansaltyballs: FightDirector: shpritz: It's possible. But that's a lot of assumption. I think Mattis is just reacting to more or less what we're all seeing. Trump said in public that he wants the military to quell the protests. You don't need any inside information to come to the conclussions that Mattis came to.

Quick point.  Evidently there are several other publicly released memos as well. This is just the highest-priority one.  Here are two of them.  Note that these are all coming out essentially simultaneously, which would indicate to me a smaller degree of coincidence that you're ascribing.

[Fark user image image 850x967]

[Fark user image image 850x1097]

I've got my hunch. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

But I just don't see all them doing that because of what they saw on the news.

For clarity, I was supporting your view.  I think that of the various theories ascribed thus far, yours is probably the closest to being correct.  Someone high up in the civilian command structure said or did something, and given the only faster-than-light communication method known to man is the military rumor mill, word of that flashed around the military as they heard what they might be expected to do.  There's too many memos all hitting the same rhetorical points, in too short a time, and SecDef's flip is too fast, to be the result of media or public pressure: it almost has to be an internal matter.

Exactly.

I thought you were agreeing they all  saw the same news report and took it upon themselves to do wild shiat.

Something really crazy happened. We'll find out one day. Like all the times when we found out how close we came to nuclear war 20 years after the event.

It couldn't just be that he said something dumb. No one would care. His dumb crazy thing probably started moving and it freaked everyone out.


William Barr wants the nuclear football.
 
2020-06-04 5:24:31 AM  

Snaps: I hope this is why the troops in DC seem so calm tonight, they don't have to worry about obeying insane orders.


I watched the seven hour live feed of that protest and the soldiers were pretty calm.

Most of them refused to look at the protesters and acknowledge their humanity, and there was one guy who looked like every fu*king stereotype of a alt-right hitler youth. Big blue eyes and all. I noted him, his expression of disdain barely held in check. How he refused to not only look at anyone in the eye, he wouldn't even look around at the scene in general. Black person after black person "walked the line" demanding respect and acknowledgement as a human being, but he didn't look once. I was getting more and more worried about him.

Then a white man, an older man, began to walk the line, holding up his military ID and declaring he was a veteran and he knew better than to face off against his own people when he was in uniform. He went up and down the line shaming them, and then stopped at Blue-Eyed Boy and told him the same things, directly to his face.

Blue-Eyed Boy blinked.

He suddenly started actually looking at people and the scene and the guys standing next to him and the people across from him.

And I felt a bit better. Blue-Eyed Boy seemed to have had a "come to Jesus moment" and I hope it sticks.
 
2020-06-04 5:26:03 AM  

Rent Party: No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.


It's not the threat of a coup, but it's trumpy being put on notice that the military are on the side of the constitution and the people if he tries to shiatty them up with his stable trumpy farking shiat-stirring hands.
 
2020-06-04 5:34:09 AM  

TwowheelinTim: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and ov ...


I take it, though, that not all those officials were on the same page as Trump. They were there to lend authority to Trump's call to arms against the protest. Milley may have disagreed with Trump's invocation of the military, but as Trump layed it out in his speech, he was within his authority to make the declaration.

(paraphrase) "Governors will use all means including national guard to quell the riots. If I deem the governors unable to stop the violence, I will be forced to use the US military to do it." Because that is exactly what the Insurrection Act allows, the military has to go along with it.

So there they all are, and some people know what's about to go down next, mainly Ivanka and Barr. Barr starts scoping out the protester lines. This was a big thing that people noted. He was taking active interest in it. Then someone (probably Barr, directly or indirectly) ordered state police to push the protesters back before curfew. Those officials NOT in the know would hear the protesters being cleared, but they wouldn't necessarily understand the circumstances, nor who was reacting to whom.

Milley would thus accompany the Clown-in-Chief across the street, and then see the pictures taken with a bible. On the way, he would see the effects of the state police, but again, not necessarily know the full details of what just transpired.

But once he saw the photo op... if you look at the pictures of the officials standing by, there are A LOT of sour and dour faces. It doesn't take long for officials to put 2 and 2 together, and then news reports and video would confirm it later for them. Milley DID get roasted by pundits for making that walk, and most likely that burned in his belly. He was set up along with a number of others to imbue Trump with some sort of presidential authority that he had just abused, staining all those officials who wouldn't have agreed with the actions.

So you might want to hold your fire on Milley before calling him out. Sure, some of this might be to save face; but it's not written as an excuse, it's written as a directive.

Also, for those saying that Trump is surrounded by amoral nincompoops, that is about 90% correct, but you're forgetting about Barr, who has probably kept Trump from being convicted during impeachment, stalled out nearly every court proceeding against Trump, and helped remove many executive branch safeguards in the form of IGs and other career personnel who could rat out malfeasance. Barr might use the most demented of rationales for justifying whatever DOJ command he orders, but it's worked thus far, and he knows the margins of rules and laws that both Trump and his department continue to skirt.
 
2020-06-04 5:41:12 AM  
Last part about Barr I included because people were saying this might go over Trumpy's head. No. Barr will fill him in.
 
2020-06-04 5:57:49 AM  

twistedknickers: My goodness! A strongly worded letter!

Like bringing an email to a gunfight, not going to matter when the thugs start killing protesters.


Thugs?  As in, overly-militarized police?  No.

But it may stop some...or a lot...of military personnel from joining said thugs.

/personally, I expect Trump to fire some of the signatories to that letter
//or try to
///interesting times
 
2020-06-04 5:59:41 AM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: Benevolent Misanthrope: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

I have to wonder how many JAG people he had working on this.

Perhaps as many as the number of JAGoffs working on Trump's Tinyman Square speech!


Hadn't heard that one; I shall be stealing it :)
 
2020-06-04 6:04:52 AM  

yukichigai: Rent Party: No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.

Clarification: the military isn't going to stage a coup, but they've now made it clear they're going to uphold the law of the land above all else. that could be where it ends, but if anyone in the administration decides to demand the military perform some blatantly illegal action and, for example, stakes their legitimacy on their orders being followed, the military is clearly not going to take the action that upholds their legitimacy.

In other words, not a coup per se, but they're given a choice by Trump to either follow his orders or remove him from the White House there is now zero ambiguity as to which of those options they'll go for.


Which is why you see Barr bringing in randos then folding them into one unit under his command for the crapshow at the park when president bunkerboy wanted to walk to the park.  People dont understand how many off the book assets are out there and they are steadily being brought to bear against the American people now.
 
2020-06-04 6:09:50 AM  

Jiggatron69: yukichigai: Rent Party: No it isn't a predicate for mutiny.  It is an effort to maintain good order and discipline in the ranks when you have a POTUS that is clearly out of control and unstable by reminding any troops that might be out there where the loyalty of their oath lies.

It is still a big damn deal, but lets not get all excited about a military coup or some stupid shiat like that.  It ain't happening, nor should it.

Clarification: the military isn't going to stage a coup, but they've now made it clear they're going to uphold the law of the land above all else. that could be where it ends, but if anyone in the administration decides to demand the military perform some blatantly illegal action and, for example, stakes their legitimacy on their orders being followed, the military is clearly not going to take the action that upholds their legitimacy.

In other words, not a coup per se, but they're given a choice by Trump to either follow his orders or remove him from the White House there is now zero ambiguity as to which of those options they'll go for.

Which is why you see Barr bringing in randos then folding them into one unit under his command for the crapshow at the park when president bunkerboy wanted to walk to the park.  People dont understand how many off the book assets are out there and they are steadily being brought to bear against the American people now.


So would it be accurate to say, rich corporate backed private security forces are being deployed against Americans?
 
2020-06-04 6:16:24 AM  

revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.


It gives me hope. The military was always the wildcard. Though I kinda want to see a fist fight break out between actual soldiers and Barr's little green men
 
2020-06-04 6:18:16 AM  

ArkPanda: Benevolent Misanthrope: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...

You speak true.

I have to wonder how many JAG people he had working on this.  You know he didn't just write this off the cuff, it's too good. As you point out, this lays the groundwork for a UCMJ-compliant refusal to take orders.

Now let's see how many individual officers refuse.

You can include Mattis in this too. He may not be very popular around here but I think he's still popular with the military. Has anyone heard from McMaster lately?

Even Esper wobbling is interesting in this light. When was the last time a Secretary of Defense contradicted the president on the military, in even the smallest way.


Mattis has always been the only adult in this administration. And yeah, the grunts still like him because he was one of them
 
2020-06-04 6:23:13 AM  

Stupid Guitar: Cubansaltyballs: When secdef basically recanted and this letter and Mattis' letter...

I think something happened behind closed doors.

I think Trump said something so catastrophically alarming or gave an order so frightening they all got on the same page.

I am curious if he asked or started talking about tanks and Apache's and shooting protestors.

All these guys coming together like that didnt do it because of media pressure or from the shiat we saw on the news. Whatever it was, it was behind closed doors and scared the living shiat out of all these men.

One day we'll hear what it was and it'll terrify us, too.

Given that this is one of the leakiest administrations ever, we'll probably hear about it on Friday.


This post made me realize that Trump is likely just as cheap about the diapers he buys as he is his suits, and with the same lack of concern whether they fit.
 
2020-06-04 6:28:29 AM  

TwowheelinTim: FightDirector: For anyone who does not recognize the seriousness of that letter, GEN Milley is laying the groundwork to do two things:

1) To protect his own job AND the job of anyone who Trump tries to forcibly relieve of duty.  All that letter officially says is to protect American values: that is also a direct instruction written in "command-ese" to disobey orders from any source - very definitely including POTUS - which run contrary to those values.  The way it is written, the only "reason" to relieve anyone of their position who agrees with that letter is that you plan to take actions contrary to those American values.  QED, if they are relieved of duty by Trump now, it is because he plans to take those contrary actions.

2) Equally as serious, if not more so, Milley is laying the legal and ethical groundwork for a potential mutiny.  Not a coup, necessarily (in fact almost certainly not), but definitely a mutiny against the presidential chain of command.  Particularly and especially with that handwritten addendum.  He is careful to call out and defend both the explicit chain of command and the moral authority from the state governors, and then says in multiple ways that their ultimate duty is to American values and the American people.  NOT orders from the president.  If this goes down the way it is looking, this letter will frame the action as a defense of American values and the American people, against a president who not only doesn't care about either one of those, but is actively working to the detriment of those things.

Finally, the fact that his name is attached to this and it's been released publicly is just gigantic.  Serving military officers don't do that.  They don't release overtly political statements like this, no matter what we might wish Mattis had done years ago.  There's literally hundreds of years of tradition (in an institution where tradition really matters, no matter what cynics might think) and officers have it hammered home over and over and over aga ...

Wasn't Milley involved with donnie's photo stunt the other night? If so, this seems a little bit hypocritical.


The chair of the joint chiefs advises on NatSec, it's not an operational role.
 
2020-06-04 6:29:12 AM  
Jesus christ why did I read this.  Can this all cool down now before shiat goes any further?  IT DOES NOT NEED TO GO FURTHER.
 
2020-06-04 6:30:01 AM  

BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.


How do I know that you know absolutely nothing about how the system actually works?
 
2020-06-04 6:37:03 AM  

somedude210: revrendjim: History is littered with the corpses of tyrants who lost the support of their military. A month ago I would have said that could never happen here.

It gives me hope. The military was always the wildcard. Though I kinda want to see a fist fight break out between actual soldiers and Barr's little green men


One on one I'd put my money on Barr's little green men. Actual soldiers tend to spend more time making their beds than training hand to hand unless it's their hobby while prison guards beat the shiat out of people all the time.
 
2020-06-04 6:38:21 AM  

BafflerMeal: Smoking GNU: BafflerMeal: mr intrepid: This also means the president has lost access to the launch codes?

No. There is literally no check and balance to the nuclear football. By design.

That's some pretty damn shiatty design.

This is also true.


"The football" doesn't actually contain any kind of launch codes. It contains retaliatory strike patterns and some authentication protocols.

Any order to launch nukes still has to pass through several human beings first. And we have already had cases where training fark ups directed battle drill launch orders to the actual launch command.

Note the lack of launches when that happened in your history books. You would almost swear that people who know what the fark they are doing are actually in charge of all this.
 
2020-06-04 6:40:32 AM  

What the hell was that: King Something: https://twitter.com/ChiefNGB/status/12​68335177484419073

USAF General Joseph Lengyel  is siding with the protesters.

He retweeted Milley as well.

/I hate that retweeting has significance


"The general's Twitter account. "

*eye twitch*
 
2020-06-04 6:42:04 AM  

FnkyTwn: Trump either tries to play this off like 'of course we believe in free speech, i directed him to say that', or he's removed as Chairman. Probably being removed, because Trump never likes anybody who works for him saying negative shiat about him. It might not be this week, but it will be before Trump is out of office.


Yeah, he'd have to remove the entirety of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... They're pretty close to unanimous.
 
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