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(Texas Observer)   There are police reforms that help everyone, are sensible, straightforward, cost-saving, and have bipartisan support. Who's preventing those reforms? Yeah, you guessed it   (texasobserver.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Crime, Homelessness, Bexar County, Texas, Police, San Antonio's cantankerous police union, San Antonio, Constable, Homelessness in the United States  
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4608 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 May 2020 at 12:05 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-30 11:19:44 AM  
 
2020-05-30 11:22:11 AM  
Police should not have unions
 
2020-05-30 11:26:09 AM  

cman: Police should not have unions


Funny. Like, I thought they hated unions. You know?
 
2020-05-30 11:29:40 AM  

cman: Police should not have unions


Police should have unions just not ones limited to police officers. A union of all city,county, or state workers that includes sanation workers, clerical, etc and Police would protect workers without promoting anti-citizen special interests.
 
2020-05-30 11:53:47 AM  

cman: Police should not have unions


Everyone has a right to a union. And that can't be limited.

What would be better would be if cop unions weren't full of scum and led by scum.
 
2020-05-30 11:57:50 AM  
It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.
 
2020-05-30 12:08:41 PM  
i.scdn.coView Full Size
 
2020-05-30 12:09:02 PM  
How about we take lawsuits out of the respective police pension funds instead of tax payers covering the cost?
 
2020-05-30 12:09:07 PM  

Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.


If they don't like civilians telling them what to do, the only career path for them is the military, and even that can come down to being told what to do by a civilian.
 
2020-05-30 12:09:23 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-30 12:12:05 PM  

Gubbo: cman: Police should not have unions

Everyone has a right to a union. And that can't be limited.

What would be better would be if cop unions weren't full of scum and led by scum.


In many states, all sorts of public workers are prohibited from collective bargaining (mostly teachers, 'cause fark those greedy bastards, right?).  Federal labor laws don't necessarily apply to state employees.  (That's re: legal right to unionize, not moral right, of course.)

But, yeah, it does seem that the people who speak for police unions tend to be the types who inflame the us-vs-them mentality at the heart of these problems, fighting against any police chiefs and civic leaders trying to bring the cops and community together.
 
2020-05-30 12:12:51 PM  
If you look at the union-busting republican governors/legislatures, you'll notice they always exempt the police unions.
 
2020-05-30 12:13:28 PM  

Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.


I work with cops regularly as part of my job. A huge portion have an authority complex they will not be told they are wrong. Regardless of how little the issue or how obviously wrong they are.
 
2020-05-30 12:13:53 PM  

koder: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.

If they don't like civilians telling them what to do, the only career path for them is the military, and even that can come down to being told what to do by a civilian.


Police are civilians, they just tend to forget that when they get geared up for war
 
2020-05-30 12:15:41 PM  

cman: Police should not have unions


the problem isn't that the cops have a union

the problem is that cop unions are made up of cops. and cops are the problem
 
2020-05-30 12:16:28 PM  
When I moved to San Antonio, all my buddies told me, "The biggest gang in town wears blue."

10 cops were busted at once for providing transport services for Mexican narcos.

I quickly learned first-hand why I always had to drive when we went out. My pasty face was like a force field.
 
2020-05-30 12:16:38 PM  
Pay settlements using union dues instead of tax dollars
 
2020-05-30 12:16:43 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-30 12:16:54 PM  

pearls before swine: Gubbo: cman: Police should not have unions

Everyone has a right to a union. And that can't be limited.

What would be better would be if cop unions weren't full of scum and led by scum.

In many states, all sorts of public workers are prohibited from collective bargaining (mostly teachers, 'cause fark those greedy bastards, right?).  Federal labor laws don't necessarily apply to state employees.  (That's re: legal right to unionize, not moral right, of course.)

But, yeah, it does seem that the people who speak for police unions tend to be the types who inflame the us-vs-them mentality at the heart of these problems, fighting against any police chiefs and civic leaders trying to bring the cops and community together.


It's a cultural problem with police even if they don't have unions. The police are generally much more conservative than the population they serve and that makes police culture ripe for dysfunction and power abuse.
 
2020-05-30 12:18:18 PM  

Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.



That's right. You can't judge them until you walk a mile half-mile quarter-mile few hundred feet in their shoes and put your life on the line.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-30 12:18:29 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.

I work with cops regularly as part of my job. A huge portion have an authority complex they will not be told they are wrong. Regardless of how little the issue or how obviously wrong they are.


That's cultural though. And the culture in any group comes from the top.

/and is incredibly hard to change
 
2020-05-30 12:19:12 PM  

Rock Krenn: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.

And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.


That's right. You can't judge them until you walk a mile half-mile quarter-mile few hundred feet in their shoes and put your life on the line.

[Fark user image 250x375]


A belt that big, you could hang more on that belt than even Batman can get in his utility belt
 
2020-05-30 12:20:29 PM  

Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.


I got into it last night with some Dallas cop laying the whole you have no idea how dangerous, etc., etc...oh yeah and he called everyone else in the conversation "pussies"  After reading his comment that no one else knows what it is like to go to work not knowing if you'd see you family ever again and vice versa.

Welp, that's when mouthy me reminded him that cops aren't even in the top ten of deadly jobs and that we as fishermen rank first or second, with loggers. Right now it's loggers.  I invited him to go fishing in the Pacific Northwest.    He then rattled off the name of a chainsaw and a couple of fishing reels (which are not a thing in commercial fishing out here).   He then went on about how we have no idea about meth dealers and the Aryan Brotherhood.  I just said, LOL, welcome to the PNW.  Oh and I invited him to come to a fisherman's or a logger's bar and call them pussies.

He was melting down...that's when I suggested he wasn't emotionally stable enough to be a cop.   he was going all Col. Jessep on us.
 
2020-05-30 12:24:30 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.

I got into it last night with some Dallas cop laying the whole you have no idea how dangerous, etc., etc...oh yeah and he called everyone else in the conversation "pussies"  After reading his comment that no one else knows what it is like to go to work not knowing if you'd see you family ever again and vice versa.

Welp, that's when mouthy me reminded him that cops aren't even in the top ten of deadly jobs and that we as fishermen rank first or second, with loggers. Right now it's loggers.  I invited him to go fishing in the Pacific Northwest.    He then rattled off the name of a chainsaw and a couple of fishing reels (which are not a thing in commercial fishing out here).   He then went on about how we have no idea about meth dealers and the Aryan Brotherhood.  I just said, LOL, welcome to the PNW.  Oh and I invited him to come to a fisherman's or a logger's bar and call them pussies.

He was melting down...that's when I suggested he wasn't emotionally stable enough to be a cop.   he was going all Col. Jessep on us.


Incredible how little attention that gets
 
2020-05-30 12:26:10 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.

I got into it last night with some Dallas cop laying the whole you have no idea how dangerous, etc., etc...oh yeah and he called everyone else in the conversation "pussies"  After reading his comment that no one else knows what it is like to go to work not knowing if you'd see you family ever again and vice versa.



You don't know what it's like
To drink coffee
to eat donuts
Behind blue shirt
 
2020-05-30 12:26:21 PM  
Anyone that uses the term mass incarceration cannot be taken seriously.
 
2020-05-30 12:27:12 PM  
My FIL was a deputy for 25+ years. I'm sure he found himself in dangerous situations, but I think he said that he only had to pull his gun a couple of times during his career. Most police work is pretty mundane kind of stuff and isn't inherently dangerous. Of course in that line of work, mundane can turn into chaotic in a blink. Police aren't constantly putting their lives on the line, though.
 
2020-05-30 12:28:01 PM  
In Seattle the SPOG (Seattle Policemans' Officers Guild) has been a regular, ongoing obstacle to police reform, they fight against any accountability, and coach their membership on writing reports to contain maximal justification for any mistake or oversight.
 
2020-05-30 12:28:27 PM  

Gubbo: Everyone has a right to a union. And that can't be limited.


Federal government does. They want to limit it mroe. Banning public employees from unions is a right wing plank.
 
2020-05-30 12:30:21 PM  

edmo: Gubbo: Everyone has a right to a union. And that can't be limited.

Federal government does. They want to limit it mroe. Banning public employees from unions is a right wing plank.


Moral right to a union. Not legal.
 
2020-05-30 12:30:41 PM  

Fart_Machine: [i.scdn.co image 850x1003]


curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough.
 
2020-05-30 12:30:42 PM  
And yet years ago when I suggested that maybe Obama champion getting rid of or restructuring police unions, I was called a racist. Funny that.
 
2020-05-30 12:31:03 PM  

dwrash: Anyone that uses the term mass incarceration cannot be taken seriously.


Yeah, especially in a country that jails more of its citizens than anyone else. shiat, that kind of untrustworthy fark might actually do something effective about other problems too.
 
2020-05-30 12:31:56 PM  

Gubbo: Incredible how little attention that gets


And they need to be reminded of it every time.
 
2020-05-30 12:31:59 PM  

Kazan: cman: Police should not have unions

the problem isn't that the cops have a union

the problem is that cop unions are made up of cops. and cops are the problem


Holy shiat I clicked smart on a Kazan post.  Maybe his grandkids got his login information?
 
2020-05-30 12:32:28 PM  
anyone mention this guy yet?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-30 12:33:15 PM  

ladodger34: My FIL was a deputy for 25+ years. I'm sure he found himself in dangerous situations, but I think he said that he only had to pull his gun a couple of times during his career. Most police work is pretty mundane kind of stuff and isn't inherently dangerous. Of course in that line of work, mundane can turn into chaotic in a blink. Police aren't constantly putting their lives on the line, though.


Meanwhile, Chauvin was involved in 3 shootings/deaths on the job, AT LEAST.

Hmmmmmmmmmm intensifies.
 
2020-05-30 12:34:21 PM  

koder: dwrash: Anyone that uses the term mass incarceration cannot be taken seriously.

Yeah, especially in a country that jails more of its citizens than anyone else. shiat, that kind of untrustworthy fark might actually do something effective about other problems too.


In a country where prisons are a farking business, a for profit business.
 
2020-05-30 12:34:44 PM  

Gubbo: Dewey Fidalgo: Gubbo: It isn't just unions. Police, some cities like NYC in particular, don't like being told how to do their jobs by people who haven't been out there putting their life on the line.And that phrase as well bothers me, because it implies that anything and everything is acceptable as long as you're alive at the end of the day.

I got into it last night with some Dallas cop laying the whole you have no idea how dangerous, etc., etc...oh yeah and he called everyone else in the conversation "pussies"  After reading his comment that no one else knows what it is like to go to work not knowing if you'd see you family ever again and vice versa.

Welp, that's when mouthy me reminded him that cops aren't even in the top ten of deadly jobs and that we as fishermen rank first or second, with loggers. Right now it's loggers.  I invited him to go fishing in the Pacific Northwest.    He then rattled off the name of a chainsaw and a couple of fishing reels (which are not a thing in commercial fishing out here).   He then went on about how we have no idea about meth dealers and the Aryan Brotherhood.  I just said, LOL, welcome to the PNW.  Oh and I invited him to come to a fisherman's or a logger's bar and call them pussies.

He was melting down...that's when I suggested he wasn't emotionally stable enough to be a cop.   he was going all Col. Jessep on us.

Incredible how little attention that gets


Generally speaking, though, the trees aren't trying to kill the loggers. It's a dangerous job, but not because the trees have malicious intent.

So far.

Hoom, hom.
 
2020-05-30 12:35:34 PM  

dwrash: Anyone that uses the term mass incarceration cannot be taken seriously.


Once again, you have strong opinions and no information.

What you're saying is that you refuse to consider information that might disconfirm or even complicate your beliefs.

You know that's a problem?
 
2020-05-30 12:35:54 PM  
So, are we Pro Union, or Anti Union today, it's almost as hard as keeping track of whether or not alcohol/caffeine is healthy or unhealthy.
 
2020-05-30 12:36:10 PM  
Cops wouldn't need a union if the cities they work for could be relied on to give them reasonable employment contracts.

Like everyone else.
 
2020-05-30 12:36:44 PM  

Kazan: cman: Police should not have unions

the problem isn't that the cops have a union

the problem is that cop unions are made up of cops. and cops are the problem


Power is the problem.

Both my father and I have seen how unions can abuse their power.  That's not to say they should be abolished, because unions are absolutely a necessity, but there needs to be SOME kind of check-and-balance.

But in either case, whether it's entrenched power in the hands of a few union leaders, or people with a desire to have lethal power over their fellow citizens, *power* is the problem.
 
2020-05-30 12:37:03 PM  

dwrash: Anyone that uses the term mass incarceration cannot be taken seriously.


Well, least-a-ways, I won't be taking you seriously, so that's one.
 
2020-05-30 12:37:14 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: So, are we Pro Union, or Anti Union today, it's almost as hard as keeping track of whether or not alcohol/caffeine is healthy or unhealthy.


Almost like it's a complicated topic which can't be boiled down to good/bad
 
2020-05-30 12:38:39 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: So, are we Pro Union, or Anti Union today, it's almost as hard as keeping track of whether or not alcohol/caffeine is healthy or unhealthy.


It's Schrodinger's Union.  It's both a strike and NOT a strike at the same time until the waveform collapses when people show up.  Or not.
 
2020-05-30 12:38:49 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: So, are we Pro Union, or Anti Union today, it's almost as hard as keeping track of whether or not alcohol/caffeine is healthy or unhealthy.


Maybe we can be upset with the only unions comprised of people with the authority to kill other citizens.
 
2020-05-30 12:39:26 PM  
Police pension issues will drive a wedge between Republican and Democratic support of unions in a few short years.
 
2020-05-30 12:39:49 PM  

Kazan: cman: Police should not have unions

the problem isn't that the cops have a union

the problem is that cop unions are made up of cops. and cops are the problem


That's right. Unions, much like governments, are just tools. In the right hands, those tools can be wielded to build amazing things. In the wrong hands, they become weapons of destruction. Police and bad political leaders misuse the tools so that they are weapons of destruction instead of tools of construction.
 
2020-05-30 12:40:59 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Generally speaking, though, the trees aren't trying to kill the loggers. It's a dangerous job, but not because the trees have malicious intent.


Well, it's a good thing that trees and water are not malicious.  Though, even with their lack of regard, concern, even knowledge of humans, they still manage to kill a lot more people.   Cops face danger from intentionally "malicious" people and still don't manage to crack that top ten.   Hell, roofers are more likely to die.
 
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