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(Reuters)   A story as old as time: Companies shielding CEO pay while laying off their workforce during the COVID-19 outbreak   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Salary, Corporate governance, Stock market, Stock, Executive compensation, Chief executive officer, executives' pay packages, Board of directors  
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3038 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 May 2020 at 3:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-28 11:08:12 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 3:53:46 PM  
You simply don't understand the markets. CEO pay is only high because there is so much demand for so few competent CEOs.

Do you realize how hard it is to tell people to tell other people to tell other people to lay other people off so you can make an additional 25 cents a quarter in earnings? Do you?

Do you realize how difficult it is for a CEO to get decent BJs by handpicked 20-year old interns in the company limo without getting caught and blackmailed by the HR director?

Do you know the pain and suffering that a CEO's child has to go through, not sure if they got into Harvard on their own merits or because of the 25 million dollar building donated in their dad's name?

It's a tough job. One day you're golfing, the next day you're discovering that your quarterly adjusted free cash flow is down 3.2% from the previous quarter and your human capital wants to unionize because half of them are sick from COVID and YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW YOU WERE GIVING THOSE GREEDY F*CKERS MEDICAL BENEFITS.
 
2020-05-28 3:54:17 PM  
At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.
 
2020-05-28 3:54:25 PM  
And yet they act like their needed and doing us a favor. And what is worse is people kiss their butts and help them stay in power and vote like them. We're stupid.
 
2020-05-28 3:54:39 PM  

edmo: [Fark user image image 280x320]


Turn off the lights.
 
2020-05-28 3:55:27 PM  
EAT THE RICH
 
2020-05-28 3:56:40 PM  

dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.


well you sound sane.
 
2020-05-28 3:59:15 PM  

dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.


**********Slowly backing up through a brick wall ... another brick wall ... Mt. Everest ... Jurassic Park ... ***************
 
2020-05-28 4:01:40 PM  

bdub77: You simply don't understand the markets. CEO pay is only high because there is so much demand for so few competent CEOs.

Do you realize how hard it is to tell people to tell other people to tell other people to lay other people off so you can make an additional 25 cents a quarter in earnings? Do you?

Do you realize how difficult it is for a CEO to get decent BJs by handpicked 20-year old interns in the company limo without getting caught and blackmailed by the HR director?

Do you know the pain and suffering that a CEO's child has to go through, not sure if they got into Harvard on their own merits or because of the 25 million dollar building donated in their dad's name?

It's a tough job. One day you're golfing, the next day you're discovering that your quarterly adjusted free cash flow is down 3.2% from the previous quarter and your human capital wants to unionize because half of them are sick from COVID and YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW YOU WERE GIVING THOSE GREEDY F*CKERS MEDICAL BENEFITS.


NICE f#cking summary!

/enthusiastically_applauding_dude.gif
 
2020-05-28 4:01:48 PM  

Ben Enya: dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.

well you sound sane.


❤❤❤❤❤❤
There was this one lady. She got all Karen's about a Playboy at work. And wanted to go to HR
So one weekend, while, coding, I jizzed in that awful smelling hand cream she never got tired of constantly applying hourly.
 
2020-05-28 4:01:59 PM  

dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.


And what does this have to do with CEOs?
 
2020-05-28 4:04:36 PM  
things better change after this
 
2020-05-28 4:06:30 PM  

some_beer_drinker: things better change after this


They won't. That's the truly sick thing about this. They won't change until people start staying home to make the change happen.
 
2020-05-28 4:09:17 PM  

waxbeans: Ben Enya: dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.

well you sound sane.

❤❤❤❤❤❤
There was this one lady. She got all Karen's about a Playboy at work. And wanted to go to HR
So one weekend, while, coding, I jizzed in that awful smelling hand cream she never got tired of constantly applying hourly.


Found Tyler Durden's Fark handle.
 
2020-05-28 4:10:10 PM  

powhound: some_beer_drinker: things better change after this

They won't. That's the truly sick thing about this. They won't change until people start staying home to make the change happen.


I think they mean socioeconomic change, but that too.
 
2020-05-28 4:17:20 PM  

Herr Morgenstern: powhound: some_beer_drinker: things better change after this

They won't. That's the truly sick thing about this. They won't change until people start staying home to make the change happen.

I think they mean socioeconomic change, but that too.


That's what I meant also.
 
2020-05-28 4:19:43 PM  

CipollinaFan: And what does this have to do with CEOs?


This is helpful advice for dealing with inter-office conflict.
 
2020-05-28 4:20:41 PM  

powhound: some_beer_drinker: things better change after this

They won't. That's the truly sick thing about this. They won't change until people start dying at the hands of the oppressed.


If history is any guide.
 
2020-05-28 4:22:20 PM  

Ben Enya: well you sound sane.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 4:23:00 PM  

Just another Heartland Weirdass: powhound: some_beer_drinker: things better change after this

They won't. That's the truly sick thing about this. They won't change until people start dying at the hands of the oppressed.

If history is any guide.


Is it strange that I keep hoping that history repeats itself?
 
2020-05-28 4:29:59 PM  

CipollinaFan: dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.

And what does this have to do with CEOs?


Maybe dtm is the CEO.

Like A Boss (ft. Seth Rogen) - Uncensored Version
Youtube NisCkxU544c
 
2020-05-28 4:31:46 PM  
They laid off 70 people here last week, I was working from home so I didn't know about it until I came in Monday. Most of this week I have been checking serial numbers on returned laptops and mailing peoples stuff to their homes.
A messed up part is the 5 people that started the day before we went into full lockdown, they got here were given their laptops and sent home to do their online training and they got it first.  Didn't even really get a chance.
 
2020-05-28 4:35:46 PM  

powhound: **********Slowly backing up through a brick wall ... another brick wall ... Mt. Everest ... Jurassic Park ... ***************


And when I say up and in between I mean down in the heart of darkness.
The dark arts.
Black magic.
The Law Firm of Brown & Williamson.
 
2020-05-28 4:58:51 PM  
There is no way of saying this without sounding callous to people who will probably never be in this position, but... it's necessary and the grinding of teeth here have to be from people who will never run anything more complicated than a yard sale.

I'm a CEO.
Full disclosure: I took a massive paycut during this because my pay actually impacts the short term survival of the company and as the original founder I still have a ton of equity.

I had to furlough more than 75% of my staff because of the pandemic causing hell in the industry and because of the lockdown in Los Angeles. No matter how good I am or how hard I try, I'm not going to affect either of those two variables. My job is to keep us alive until the world regains its sanity.

If the company survives through this, we will be operating at less than half staff for at least 18 to 24 months and more than $3,500,000 of annual payroll will be wiped out. We will likely not get back up to our normal $7M+ payroll for several years.

... I will still get a massive equity bonus if I can pull this off and keep the company alive
... So will some of my top executives. In fact I'm negotiating retention bonuses with them now so they don't run.
... If they run, the company dies, no matter how many people I do or do not lay off. Then everybody loses their job.

Yah, it sounds terrible, but it's necessary. The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before. You don't hire a leader because everything is always a smoothly running machine. You hire a CEO to grow the company in good times and to keep the company alive in bad times.

It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa. We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well. The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially. No matter what the peanut-gallery approved nonsense is about powerful people getting away with murder, executives get prosecuted criminally all the time for statements on paper that they *should* have known were incorrect but perhaps didn't because in times like these they are operating at half staff and everybody who remains is overworked and under supported and passing on bad information.
I'm seriously getting insane offers from groups looking to do a consolidation and roll-up play with other distressed companies in my industry. Do you think it will benefit my workers if the board cuts my pay even further and I go take one of those offers?

Yes, CEOs are still getting paid. They are getting paid because they are being asked to do a job that is now more important than ever, riskier than ever, and where if they fail, they can be tied up in lawsuits for years.
I know it sounds just incredibly heartless to folks who have lost their jobs, especially to those who aren't going to get their jobs back even after this catastrophe, but it's absolutely necessary or the board is going to run the risk of the company failing, *nobody* coming back and the existing employees losing their jobs as well.
 
2020-05-28 5:02:20 PM  
From their getting to know the executive team:

O. Bruton Smith, Executive Chairman, Director
David Bruton Smith, Chief Executive Officer, Director
 
2020-05-28 5:18:47 PM  
I an a custodian. I am currently working as essential personnel for my city's utilities company.

Although folks like me aren't the ones you think of when you think of essential personnel, we are. We keep our jobs, because it's our job to keep the "truly essential" personnel safe. You know, the folks who keep the water running, and the electricity going to power all those ventilators.

So no, nobody's thinking of us when they lean out their windows and clap and cheer for doctors and nurses. That's okay. My twin is a nurse. Those people deserve all the praise.

But the one thing everybody in this country who has a farking conscious should agree upon is that, even if it's temporary, PAY US MORE!!! A dollar an hour more that won't affect the SNAP and Medicaid we qualify for. A $500 bonus for Christmas. Hell, a even a farking $50 dollar gift cardfor Christmas!I

Anyone donating money to the cause doesn't get his that works. By the time that money trickles down to us, it's usually in the form of a catered dinner from a cheap Mexican restaurant, or a cheap water bottle with the friggin company logo all over it.

Pay us more. Pay us more. PAY US MORE. Thank you's are nice, but that shiat is easy to do when you're safe at home ordering your food to be delivered from Whole Foods.

Pay us more.
And count your farking blessings that you don't have to go through this shiat. We are the people who power the economy. And if the middle class doesn't want to help lift us up, what the fark are we sacrificing our lives for?
 
2020-05-28 5:23:22 PM  

Gheist: The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before.



I'm sure that history degree from Arizona State is really going to save the world.
 
2020-05-28 5:26:22 PM  
They make 350x the lowest employee for a reason.
Because they're the highest employee.

Besides. You don't want Donald Trump running your country and working for free.

He has declared bankruptcy 6 times.
 
2020-05-28 5:26:23 PM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: I an a custodian. I am currently working as essential personnel for my city's utilities company.

Although folks like me aren't the ones you think of when you think of essential personnel, we are. We keep our jobs, because it's our job to keep the "truly essential" personnel safe. You know, the folks who keep the water running, and the electricity going to power all those ventilators.

So no, nobody's thinking of us when they lean out their windows and clap and cheer for doctors and nurses. That's okay. My twin is a nurse. Those people deserve all the praise.

But the one thing everybody in this country who has a farking conscious should agree upon is that, even if it's temporary, PAY US MORE!!! A dollar an hour more that won't affect the SNAP and Medicaid we qualify for. A $500 bonus for Christmas. Hell, a even a farking $50 dollar gift cardfor Christmas!I

Anyone donating money to the cause doesn't get his that works. By the time that money trickles down to us, it's usually in the form of a catered dinner from a cheap Mexican restaurant, or a cheap water bottle with the friggin company logo all over it.

Pay us more. Pay us more. PAY US MORE. Thank you's are nice, but that shiat is easy to do when you're safe at home ordering your food to be delivered from Whole Foods.

Pay us more. And count your farking blessings that you don't have to go through this shiat. We are the people who power the economy. And if the middle class doesn't want to help lift us up, what the fark are we sacrificing our lives for?


How do you have the nerve to come here and complain after that moving oratory by one of our nations hard working CEO's?

You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
2020-05-28 5:30:21 PM  
Gheist:Bravo. It takes courage to put yourself out there, knowing you will get pounded. However...


It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa.

And what is your take on the wage ratio changes over the years? Were CEOs (paid 42x the lowest-paid worker in 1980, now paid ~204x) just poor leaders back then? Did they not deserve what you earn now?

We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well.

Just curious, what would happen to you if your company failed? Would you be able to get another job again? Do you have enough savings to get by?


The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially.

So executives in the US are going to jail over these regulatory violations? Can you point to some examples?

Somehow, I think the executive class in the US will be fine.
 
2020-05-28 5:32:27 PM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: I an a custodian. I am currently working as essential personnel for my city's utilities company.

Although folks like me aren't the ones you think of when you think of essential personnel, we are. We keep our jobs, because it's our job to keep the "truly essential" personnel safe. You know, the folks who keep the water running, and the electricity going to power all those ventilators.

So no, nobody's thinking of us when they lean out their windows and clap and cheer for doctors and nurses. That's okay. My twin is a nurse. Those people deserve all the praise.

But the one thing everybody in this country who has a farking conscious should agree upon is that, even if it's temporary, PAY US MORE!!! A dollar an hour more that won't affect the SNAP and Medicaid we qualify for. A $500 bonus for Christmas. Hell, a even a farking $50 dollar gift cardfor Christmas!I

Anyone donating money to the cause doesn't get his that works. By the time that money trickles down to us, it's usually in the form of a catered dinner from a cheap Mexican restaurant, or a cheap water bottle with the friggin company logo all over it.

Pay us more. Pay us more. PAY US MORE. Thank you's are nice, but that shiat is easy to do when you're safe at home ordering your food to be delivered from Whole Foods.

Pay us more. And count your farking blessings that you don't have to go through this shiat. We are the people who power the economy. And if the middle class doesn't want to help lift us up, what the fark are we sacrificing our lives for?


Yes, custodians can equalize pay disparity silently.

If you treat that custodian like shiat...
Your next cup of coffee might taste like shiat...

/ not all custodians do this.
// the ones that are paid right and proud of their company don't.
/// but if that company needs to save money on paychecks...you'd better save them money by only using one rag all night long...
//// and wipe out coffee cups last.
 
2020-05-28 5:34:53 PM  

dothemath: Gheist: The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before.


I'm sure that history degree from Arizona State is really going to save the world.


I don't get that reference. I don't have a history degree, I didn't go to Arizona state and I'm not trying to save the world..just my company.
 
2020-05-28 5:45:05 PM  

Gheist: I don't get that reference. I don't have a history degree, I didn't go to Arizona state and I'm not trying to save the world..just my company.


That's exactly what some guy that went to Arizona State would say.

I bet you were the freakin' mayor of Saguaroville.

Nice try.
 
2020-05-28 5:59:23 PM  
The company that runs 95% of US auto dealerships is engaged in shady and despicable activity?

I just don't know what to believe anymore.
 
2020-05-28 6:00:45 PM  

LamOtter: Gheist:Bravo. It takes courage to put yourself out there, knowing you will get pounded. However...


It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa.

And what is your take on the wage ratio changes over the years? Were CEOs (paid 42x the lowest-paid worker in 1980, now paid ~204x) just poor leaders back then? Did they not deserve what you earn now?


It depends on the company honestly. I sure as hell don't get 204X or even 42X the salary of my lowest paid workers, although if you include my equity options it's a good multiple. Those aren't valuable until you have a liquidity event however and we aren't yet a public company. My avg employee salary is somewhere around $70K-$80K as well.

For massive leviathan companies that have tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of employees, I can see the man or woman at the top making a *lot* more than the front lines, especially if they are lower wage earners. Nobody is going to pay a million dollars a year to the Starbucks barista or the Mcdonalds fry cook, but it is absolutely going to be necessary to pay the CEO of those companies a competitive comp package. They are overwhelmingly huge multi-national behemoths worth more than $100B with tens of billions a year in revenue. The person at the top of those monsters is going to get paid, and it sure as hell isn't going to be 42X minimum wage.

I'm willing to bet that your statistic is only for large publicly traded companies where the comp packages of the executives are disclosed in regulatory filings. Those public companies are a completely different beast than what they were in 1980.

The vast, vast majority of CEOs make a good wage but it's nothing like that. Even here in LA the avg CEO wage is only around a half mil a year. Not a bad salary, but it's not 240X. It's not even 42X of 1980 if you're using LAs minimum wage as the "lowest paid worker"


We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well.

Just curious, what would happen to you if your company failed? Would you be able to get another job again? Do you have enough savings to get by?


That completely depends on the how this role shakes out. It's another reason for retention bonuses for execs. There's significant liability for an executive from a cratered company. It can take a *very* long time to get another executive job. Many individuals who have careers tied to their reputations will jump ship if it appears that the company isn't going to survive or even is just going to hit the headlines in a bad way. The vast majority of people in that position will take a new job before they've left the old one.  If an exec stays to the end and it becomes a chap 11 nightmare, or worse, it can be very tough to gain the trust and confidence of a new major enterprise. It's definitely one of my major points on why you don't fark over your executive staff when you really need them to hold the company together. They will be getting poached elsewhere if the headhunters smell blood in the water. This isn't something that is really concerning to most people, but when you're playing at this level it's just a reality of life.

I do have enough to hold me over until I find a new role, but if I'm in the position that I'm unemployed then I'm already screwed. I almost certainly won't be a CEO at my next job and it will be a challenge to land a new C suite role within 12 to 18 months.


The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially.

So executives in the US are going to jail over these regulatory violations? Can you point to some examples?

Somehow, I think the executive class in the US will be fine.


Yes, I absolutely can. In fact I'm dealing with a vendor with a CEO who is being prosecuted by the SEC currently. One of the funds I used to work with also had their top guy charged due to accounting statements on the performance of their fund and he'll almost certainly end up taking a plea that'll probably have him in prison for a year and a day and a lifetime ban from the securities industry. It happens all the time. The trope that execs can break the law at will and get away with it is just nonsense told by the peanut gallery. The problem is that if you aren't watching closely, it can be really, really easy to slip up. Times like these compound that danger to an incredible degree because all the people you are relying on are already underwater.
 
2020-05-28 6:03:27 PM  
Things are back to normal.
 
2020-05-28 6:10:32 PM  
Y'know, the GOP is incredibly hot on "means testing", and now I find one that I can go along with: anyone with an income > $2m/yr gets *zero* exemptions and *zero* deductions, they pay the max full rate.
 
2020-05-28 6:33:35 PM  

edmo: [Fark user image 280x320]


And i will turn out the lights
 
2020-05-28 6:45:37 PM  

dothemath: CipollinaFan: And what does this have to do with CEOs?

This is helpful advice for dealing with inter-office conflict.


hey its ok we just need the Mayhem movie virus and all will be ok..hmm i have a copy i should upload it to that youtooby thingy
 
2020-05-28 7:59:56 PM  
My company made me proud.
They cut all executives pay by 10-20%.
The more you made, the higher the pay cut. This was to avoid laying people off.
If I remember correctly, the CEO announced he wasn't taking a salary until this mess was over.
 
2020-05-28 8:13:47 PM  
There wasn't this big pay disparity way back when we taxed the high earners at 90%.  Sounds like we need to go back to the 1950's and reinstate those tax rates.
 
2020-05-28 8:31:58 PM  
Obligatory
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 8:59:34 PM  

Gheist: There is no way of saying this without sounding callous to people who will probably never be in this position, but... it's necessary and the grinding of teeth here have to be from people who will never run anything more complicated than a yard sale.

I'm a CEO.
Full disclosure: I took a massive paycut during this because my pay actually impacts the short term survival of the company and as the original founder I still have a ton of equity.

I had to furlough more than 75% of my staff because of the pandemic causing hell in the industry and because of the lockdown in Los Angeles. No matter how good I am or how hard I try, I'm not going to affect either of those two variables. My job is to keep us alive until the world regains its sanity.

If the company survives through this, we will be operating at less than half staff for at least 18 to 24 months and more than $3,500,000 of annual payroll will be wiped out. We will likely not get back up to our normal $7M+ payroll for several years.

... I will still get a massive equity bonus if I can pull this off and keep the company alive
... So will some of my top executives. In fact I'm negotiating retention bonuses with them now so they don't run.
... If they run, the company dies, no matter how many people I do or do not lay off. Then everybody loses their job.

Yah, it sounds terrible, but it's necessary. The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before. You don't hire a leader because everything is always a smoothly running machine. You hire a CEO to grow the company in good times and to keep the company alive in bad times.

It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa. We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well. The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially. No matter what the peanut-gallery approved nonsense is about powerful people getting away with murder, executives get prosecuted criminally all the time for statements on paper that they *should* have known were incorrect but perhaps didn't because in times like these they are operating at half staff and everybody who remains is overworked and under supported and passing on bad information.
I'm seriously getting insane offers from groups looking to do a consolidation and roll-up play with other distressed companies in my industry. Do you think it will benefit my workers if the board cuts my pay even further and I go take one of those offers?

Yes, CEOs are still getting paid. They are getting paid because they are being asked to do a job that is now more important than ever, riskier than ever, and where if they fail, they can be tied up in lawsuits for years.
I know it sounds just incredibly heartless to folks who have lost their jobs, especially to those who aren't going to get their jobs back even after this catastrophe, but it's absolutely necessary or the board is going to run the risk of the company failing, *nobody* coming back and the existing employees losing their jobs as well.


ROFLMAO.
Considering a whole nation can run on autopilot. I'm calling b.s.

Read enough and actually pay attention. CEOs are lies. I'm 46. Had a Fortune magazine subscription since I was a kid. Also worked in back offices my whole life. Companies are like boats. Captains are are important but not as important as the rest of the boat.
 
2020-05-28 9:43:39 PM  

Gheist: dothemath: Gheist: The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before.


I'm sure that history degree from Arizona State is really going to save the world.

I don't get that reference. I don't have a history degree, I didn't go to Arizona state and I'm not trying to save the world..just my company.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Replace joke with sarcastic insult, you pompous git.
 
2020-05-28 10:24:48 PM  

dothemath: At a job many years ago there was a person who I farkING. HATED.

And whenever she would make me especially angry I would wait until she went to lunch and take her desk phone receiver and stick it down the back of my pants right up and in between my sweaty, stank ass butt cheeks and then put it back.

Watching her lips against it while talking was like an hour of dep tissue massage for my soul.


You know that's assault right? Right?
 
2020-05-28 10:44:17 PM  

Gheist: LamOtter: Gheist:Bravo. It takes courage to put yourself out there, knowing you will get pounded. However...


It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa.

And what is your take on the wage ratio changes over the years? Were CEOs (paid 42x the lowest-paid worker in 1980, now paid ~204x) just poor leaders back then? Did they not deserve what you earn now?

It depends on the company honestly. I sure as hell don't get 204X or even 42X the salary of my lowest paid workers, although if you include my equity options it's a good multiple. Those aren't valuable until you have a liquidity event however and we aren't yet a public company. My avg employee salary is somewhere around $70K-$80K as well.

For massive leviathan companies that have tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of employees, I can see the man or woman at the top making a *lot* more than the front lines, especially if they are lower wage earners. Nobody is going to pay a million dollars a year to the Starbucks barista or the Mcdonalds fry cook, but it is absolutely going to be necessary to pay the CEO of those companies a competitive comp package. They are overwhelmingly huge multi-national behemoths worth more than $100B with tens of billions a year in revenue. The person at the top of those monsters is going to get paid, and it sure as hell isn't going to be 42X minimum wage.

I'm willing to bet that your statistic is only for large publicly traded companies where the comp packages of the executives are disclosed in regulatory filings. Those public companies are a completely different beast than what they were in 1980.

The vast, vast majority of CEOs make a good wage but it's nothing like that. Even here in LA the avg CEO wage is only around a half mil a year. Not a bad salary, but it's not 240X. It's not even 42X of 1980 if you're using LAs minimum wage as the "lowest paid worker"

We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well.

Just curious, what would happen to you if your company failed? Would you be able to get another job again? Do you have enough savings to get by?

That completely depends on the how this role shakes out. It's another reason for retention bonuses for execs. There's significant liability for an executive from a cratered company. It can take a *very* long time to get another executive job. Many individuals who have careers tied to their reputations will jump ship if it appears that the company isn't going to survive or even is just going to hit the headlines in a bad way. The vast majority of people in that position will take a new job before they've left the old one.  If an exec stays to the end and it becomes a chap 11 nightmare, or worse, it can be very tough to gain the trust and confidence of a new major enterprise. It's definitely one of my major points on why you don't fark over your executive staff when you really need them to hold the company together. They will be getting poached elsewhere if the headhunters smell blood in the water. This isn't something that is really concerning to most people, but when you're playing at this level it's just a reality of life.

I do have enough to hold me over until I find a new role, but if I'm in the position that I'm unemployed then I'm already screwed. I almost certainly won't be a CEO at my next job and it will be a challenge to land a new C suite role within 12 to 18 months.

The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially.

So executives in the US are going to jail over these regulatory violations? Can you point to some examples?

Somehow, I think the executive class in the US will be fine.

Yes, I absolutely can. In fact I'm dealing with a vendor with a CEO who is being prosecuted by the SEC currently. One of the funds I used to work with also had their top guy charged due to accounting statements on the performance of their fund and he'll almost certainly end up taking a plea that'll probably have him in prison for a year and a day and a lifetime ban from the securities industry. It happens all the time. The trope that execs can break the law at will and get away with it is just nonsense told by the peanut gallery. The problem is that if you aren't watching closely, it can be really, really easy to slip up. Times like these compound that danger to an incredible degree because all the people you are relying on are already underwater.


Well, God forbid you take a job not in the C suite.  What a hellish life it must be for those few unfortunate souls who have to stoop that low.
 
2020-05-29 3:13:26 AM  
My company's CEO slashed his salary to $0, and instituted significant paycuts for executives, lower paycuts for middle management, 10% paycuts for all other salaries, and issued furloughs for whomever could voluntarily afford it (with benefits) before the layoffs.

I can't impress upon you the level of respect and thankfulness he has earned, even from many of the people who lost their jobs.

/I guess I just want to say that it's not like this everywhere.
 
2020-05-29 3:24:01 AM  

AngryDragon: The company that runs 95% of US auto dealerships is engaged in shady and despicable activity?

I just don't know what to believe anymore.


95 dealerships. Not 95%.
 
2020-05-29 3:54:44 AM  

Gheist: There is no way of saying this without sounding callous to people who will probably never be in this position, but... it's necessary and the grinding of teeth here have to be from people who will never run anything more complicated than a yard sale.

I'm a CEO.
Full disclosure: I took a massive paycut during this because my pay actually impacts the short term survival of the company and as the original founder I still have a ton of equity.

I had to furlough more than 75% of my staff because of the pandemic causing hell in the industry and because of the lockdown in Los Angeles. No matter how good I am or how hard I try, I'm not going to affect either of those two variables. My job is to keep us alive until the world regains its sanity.

If the company survives through this, we will be operating at less than half staff for at least 18 to 24 months and more than $3,500,000 of annual payroll will be wiped out. We will likely not get back up to our normal $7M+ payroll for several years.

... I will still get a massive equity bonus if I can pull this off and keep the company alive
... So will some of my top executives. In fact I'm negotiating retention bonuses with them now so they don't run.
... If they run, the company dies, no matter how many people I do or do not lay off. Then everybody loses their job.

Yah, it sounds terrible, but it's necessary. The CEOs job is *more* valuable and necessary now than ever before. You don't hire a leader because everything is always a smoothly running machine. You hire a CEO to grow the company in good times and to keep the company alive in bad times.

It's also not a "free" service. Executives aren't here to be Mother Teresa. We have our own families and our own futures to protect as well. The additional litigation risk in times like this is absolutely insane. You're also having to operate on skeleton crews so the risk of making incorrect or misleading attestations to our regulatory agencies is increased exponentially. No matter w ...



Gheist is a CEO?

ishethough.jpg

7M/year is probably less than the payroll of an average Walmart store.

How many employees do you need to have to be considered a CEO?
 
2020-05-29 9:11:48 AM  

bobbyjoebobby: You know that's assault right? Right?


Good.
I wish it was murder.
 
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