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(Concordia)   Indigenous knowledge keepers attempt to decolonize contemporary physics   (concordia.ca) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Indigenous peoples, Physics, Indigenous intellectual property, Indigenous scholar, Science, Tanja Tajmel, Louellyn White, Indigenous Australians  
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711 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 May 2020 at 1:56 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-28 1:34:40 PM  
I'm all for more inclusive education. I'm all for studying Indigenous theory, literature and creation mythology.

But what the actual fark is this program really doing? All I see are three lily-white academics spouting mumbo-jumbo about redefining physics based on Indigenous principles, or something. They want to redefine the way light is accepted to be a wave by considering how Indigenous Peoples thought about light?

I guess I'm not "woke," but this stinks of greenwashing a grant application so it feels good. I just hope it actually benefits Indigenous students and doesn't just feed these white folks feel-better party.

/go ahead, dogpile on me, shiat on my post, whatever...I'm genuinely having trouble understanding the value of what's being presented...
 
2020-05-28 1:51:15 PM  

beezeltown: /go ahead, dogpile on me, shiat on my post, whatever...I'm genuinely having trouble understanding the value of what's being presented...


Fark user imageView Full Size

"Dogpile!?" That's species-ist!

Also, you're not alone. Perhaps we need a study to try and figure out what this study is.
 
2020-05-28 1:59:41 PM  
They need to go even further and be more inclusive.  For instance, why do we teach about "evolution" while we don't each kids about creationism?  Why are we excluding these totally valid viewpoints and assuming that "science" is correct?

/s
 
2020-05-28 2:03:04 PM  
"Hey, we have some money to piss away, let's give it to the Three Stooges here and we can feel extremely virtuous for the rest of the year."
 
2020-05-28 2:07:44 PM  
WTF did I read with some speed of light, assuming that light has a speed in your culture?
 
2020-05-28 2:09:05 PM  
That word salad article was classic PhD.  Three white people spouting nonsense for 1,000 words and collecting a six-figure check for it.

"Indigenous ways of knowing have been suppressed and marginalized throughout academic history and we are finally gaining momentum in elevating Indigenous knowledges as equally valid to Western science," says White,

And yet, something tells me that Professor White gets her medical care from a doctor and not a shaman.
 
2020-05-28 2:10:28 PM  
beezeltown:I guess I'm not "woke," but this stinks of greenwashing a grant application so it feels good. I just hope it actually benefits Indigenous students and doesn't just feed these white folks feel-better party.

Oh come on, at least ones of these crackers is claiming indigenous blood for the bennies.
 
2020-05-28 2:10:58 PM  
The Nlaka'pamux people are well known for their particle accelerators.
 
2020-05-28 2:16:21 PM  
Most important paragraph in TFA:

Tajmel believes that appropriately redistributing available funds will be a vital step toward decolonizing academia. "More than 90 per cent of this project's funding goes directly to Indigenous peoples as bursaries for students, and honoraria for Elders and Knowledge Keepers," she says.

They also spent a few bucks to get a nifty vanity domain:  decolonizinglight.com
 
2020-05-28 2:17:25 PM  

FLMountainMan: And yet, something tells me that Professor White gets her medical care from a doctor and not a shaman.


After reading that, I'm not so sure. Have you ever watched, "Altered States"? Some serious indigenous science going on there.
 
2020-05-28 2:28:07 PM  
And that's why I left academia.
 
2020-05-28 2:32:50 PM  

beezeltown: But what the actual fark is this program really doing? All I see are three lily-white academics spouting mumbo-jumbo about redefining physics based on Indigenous principles, or something. They want to redefine the way light is accepted to be a wave by considering how Indigenous Peoples thought about light?


They are actually trying to redefine some currency from a grant-making organization into their own slush fund.
 
2020-05-28 2:41:17 PM  
Sniff sniff, hou smell that?
"A New Frontiers in Research Fund grant will support interdisciplinary approaches to decolonizing science "

sniff sniff, smells like pseudo-profound bullshiat to me.

here's the truth they were attempting to both complicate and overly simply all at once.

Some fields of knowledge DEMAND HIGHLY FOCUSED SPECIALISTS.
We will need people that get laser focused on single topics of knowledge because they are that complicated, it's not reasonable to imaging one human mastering more than that one topic really.

BUT the world is freaking complicated, and little to nothing operates in a vacume alone, and so it i, some things can't be properly understood from a singularly topic focused body of knowledge.

In the end we NEED specialists, BUT we also NEED Bards too.

What we really need is a situation in which the PhD single topics are less driving the boat of science research and development for all of us. And more that the single topic PhDs are the work horses, coordinated and having cross topic work directed by more generalist Bard types that can better bring it all together than the single topic focused can.
As usual from my xp, when a singe topic PhD begins to try and branch out more, they start speaking in pseudo-profound bs terms more too.
 
2020-05-28 2:48:43 PM  
What the fark does 'belief' have to do with 'knowledge'
 
2020-05-28 2:56:41 PM  
I don't understandf therefore magic puhlitical corectness gon' mad
 
2020-05-28 2:58:13 PM  
A physicist by training with a passion for the Northern Lights, Tajmel questioned the colonial assumptions made in the way Western science evaluates light and what it considers knowledge.
I looked up the articles of these people in the hope they've decolonized Maxwell's equations from all that pesky math and so have finally made them usable in Fark threads, but alas...
 
2020-05-28 3:06:52 PM  
How to decolonize?
Decolonizing Light follows complementary approaches: We are engaging Indigenous ontologies and epistemologies for knowledge creation, we are studying colonial anchor points in the history of physics in the context of light, we are studying the views of scientists on colonialism, we're investigating the discourse on contemporary largescale light experiments, we are training Indigenous and racialized students to do research in synchrotrons, and we are encouraging and training Indigenous and racialized students to follow research questions which are not defined by us but by themselves.

Words words - Beavis and Butthead
Youtube 1BcHSt3J1hs
 
2020-05-28 3:06:58 PM  

PvtStash: In the end we NEED specialists, BUT we also NEED Bards too.


"Polymaths". Love that word.

Anyway, someone get this guy a 6 figure grant!
 
2020-05-28 3:08:37 PM  

Destructor: FLMountainMan: And yet, something tells me that Professor White gets her medical care from a doctor and not a shaman.

After reading that, I'm not so sure. Have you ever watched, "Altered States"? Some serious indigenous science going on there.


Watched that movie when I, too, was in an altered state and it made a lot of sense.  Later, when I was unaltered, not so much.
 
2020-05-28 3:22:00 PM  

PvtStash: n the end we NEED specialists, BUT we also NEED Bards too.


But we don't need bards to do particle physics.
 
2020-05-28 3:23:20 PM  
"...unique interdisciplinarity..."

WTF
 
2020-05-28 3:23:39 PM  
I see a lot of people didn't read the article. And this is why decolonization, or what ever you want to call it, is needed. Yall just blindly attack what you think it is thereby reinforcing the lily white stereotype.
 
2020-05-28 3:27:33 PM  

mrlewish: I see a lot of people didn't read the article. And this is why decolonization, or what ever you want to call it, is needed. Yall just blindly attack what you think it is thereby reinforcing the lily white stereotype.


But they want to crucify Maxwell!!1
 
2020-05-28 3:36:29 PM  

mrlewish: I see a lot of people didn't read the article. And this is why decolonization, or what ever you want to call it, is needed. Yall just blindly attack what you think it is thereby reinforcing the lily white stereotype.


LMFAO.  I did read the article.  It's gibberish.  A strong of sentences thrown together that mean very little in the end.
 
2020-05-28 3:39:30 PM  

This text is now purple: PvtStash: n the end we NEED specialists, BUT we also NEED Bards too.

But we don't need bards to do particle physics.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Don't we though?
 
2020-05-28 3:41:20 PM  
If you cut through all the grandiose language about "decolonizing physics", their actual projects seem to be:

Cultural ideas about light in Indigenous knowledges and philosophies
Physicists' views on colonialism in science
The concept of light in the history of science through a decolonial lens
Physics research projects using synchrotron radiation


Except for the last, it's sociological research about the historical and contemporary study and practice of science in indigenous and western cultures, not physics research.
 
2020-05-28 3:47:42 PM  

LewDux: mrlewish: I see a lot of people didn't read the article. And this is why decolonization, or what ever you want to call it, is needed. Yall just blindly attack what you think it is thereby reinforcing the lily white stereotype.

But they want to crucify Maxwell!!1


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 3:54:16 PM  

mrlewish: I see a lot of people didn't read the article. And this is why decolonization, or what ever you want to call it, is needed. Yall just blindly attack what you think it is thereby reinforcing the lily white stereotype.


Can you explain, since you're so much smarter than all of us, where does the article explain what are "the colonial assumptions made in the way [of] Western science" and how do they make the physics fields of classical electrodynamics or quantum field theory (the modern theories that describe "light") unacceptable or inapplicable?

Science is basically a bunch of models that describe the laws of nature in a general manner and allow you to apply those models to predict the outcome of complex phenomena from these simple generalizations. TFA alleges that "insufficient historical context and geopolitical awareness" create some sort of a problem. What is the problem that "insufficient historical context" and "geopolitical awareness" create for ED and QFT in this respect? How does including them improve on the theories?

Please explain, I'm really interested in your opinion. But try to be specific.

Thanks.
 
2020-05-28 4:30:49 PM  
Please let me know when indigenous culture elders provide testable physics hypotheses which are supported by the evidence of repeatable tests. If a First Nations elder comes up with a new theory of quantum gravity and it works in repeated tests, we'll dump the current theories and accept the new one. But its has to be testable, or it will end up as a recurring joke like the elegant (but currently untestable) String Theory.

There's nothing inherently 'colonial' about the scientific method (except in Battlestar Galactica re-runs). Something is or is not predicted by hypothesis and is or is not matched by evidence during testing, which either is or is not repeatable. If a hypothesis passes these hurdles, it becomes theory, and will remain valid until such time something more accurate/precise comes along.

Indigenous cultures are under-represented in physics to the same extent women are under-represented in government in Saudi Arabia (and largely for similar reasons). Deal with the underlying racism, racism-supported endemic poverty, and virulently-racist government actions to get indigenous people a fair shot at working in those fields and leave the white-guilt buzzwords at home.
 
2020-05-28 5:30:53 PM  
We need to burn the universities down and start over again.
 
2020-05-28 5:52:26 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: The Nlaka'pamux people are well known for their particle accelerators.


That atlatl ain't no joke.
 
2020-05-28 5:55:29 PM  

pup.socket: A physicist by training with a passion for the Northern Lights, Tajmel questioned the colonial assumptions made in the way Western science evaluates light and what it considers knowledge.
I looked up the articles of these people in the hope they've decolonized Maxwell's equations from all that pesky math and so have finally made them usable in Fark threads, but alas...


Probably developed a passion for weed while he was studying those northern lights too, if this headline is right.
 
2020-05-28 6:12:34 PM  

Wenchmaster: Please let me know when indigenous culture elders provide testable physics hypotheses which are supported by the evidence of repeatable tests. If a First Nations elder comes up with a new theory of quantum gravity and it works in repeated tests, we'll dump the current theories and accept the new one. But its has to be testable, or it will end up as a recurring joke like the elegant (but currently untestable) String Theory.

There's nothing inherently 'colonial' about the scientific method (except in Battlestar Galactica re-runs). Something is or is not predicted by hypothesis and is or is not matched by evidence during testing, which either is or is not repeatable. If a hypothesis passes these hurdles, it becomes theory, and will remain valid until such time something more accurate/precise comes along.

Indigenous cultures are under-represented in physics to the same extent women are under-represented in government in Saudi Arabia (and largely for similar reasons). Deal with the underlying racism, racism-supported endemic poverty, and virulently-racist government actions to get indigenous people a fair shot at working in those fields and leave the white-guilt buzzwords at home.


This isn't an attack on you... but your response does provide a near perfect example of why things like this project are an (unfortunate) necessity.

Try to reconcile the first sentence you wrote with the last one.  The first sentence essentially says, "Don't talk to me unless you have something worthwhile to say in my language," and the last is, "We need to deal with racial and cultural bias."  Do you see the disconnect?

Now imagine if that first sentence was the reaction to literally every aspect of your life for multiple generations.  Then add on the history of 'school == kidnapping, rape, and death'.  How likely are you going to be to want to engage education on European values?

It's unfortunate because the Western tradition of science is demonstrably the best method for understanding the universe and advancing human quality of life.  But colonialism absolutely farked up getting Indigenous peoples to buy into it... so now we have to do it the hard and inefficient way.  If respect had been shown from the start, we wouldn't be in this situation.
 
2020-05-28 6:14:49 PM  

Kurohone: Wenchmaster: Please let me know when indigenous culture elders provide testable physics hypotheses which are supported by the evidence of repeatable tests. If a First Nations elder comes up with a new theory of quantum gravity and it works in repeated tests, we'll dump the current theories and accept the new one. But its has to be testable, or it will end up as a recurring joke like the elegant (but currently untestable) String Theory.

There's nothing inherently 'colonial' about the scientific method (except in Battlestar Galactica re-runs). Something is or is not predicted by hypothesis and is or is not matched by evidence during testing, which either is or is not repeatable. If a hypothesis passes these hurdles, it becomes theory, and will remain valid until such time something more accurate/precise comes along.

Indigenous cultures are under-represented in physics to the same extent women are under-represented in government in Saudi Arabia (and largely for similar reasons). Deal with the underlying racism, racism-supported endemic poverty, and virulently-racist government actions to get indigenous people a fair shot at working in those fields and leave the white-guilt buzzwords at home.

This isn't an attack on you... but your response does provide a near perfect example of why things like this project are an (unfortunate) necessity.

Try to reconcile the first sentence you wrote with the last one.  The first sentence essentially says, "Don't talk to me unless you have something worthwhile to say in my language," and the last is, "We need to deal with racial and cultural bias."  Do you see the disconnect?

Now imagine if that first sentence was the reaction to literally every aspect of your life for multiple generations.  Then add on the history of 'school == kidnapping, rape, and death'.  How likely are you going to be to want to engage education on European values?

It's unfortunate because the Western tradition of science is demonstrably the best method for understanding the universe and advancing human quality of life.  But colonialism absolutely farked up getting Indigenous peoples to buy into it... so now we have to do it the hard and inefficient way.  If respect had been shown from the start, we wouldn't be in this situation.


More word salad.
 
2020-05-28 6:24:30 PM  

Russ1642: Kurohone: Wenchmaster: Please let me know when indigenous culture elders provide testable physics hypotheses which are supported by the evidence of repeatable tests. If a First Nations elder comes up with a new theory of quantum gravity and it works in repeated tests, we'll dump the current theories and accept the new one. But its has to be testable, or it will end up as a recurring joke like the elegant (but currently untestable) String Theory.

There's nothing inherently 'colonial' about the scientific method (except in Battlestar Galactica re-runs). Something is or is not predicted by hypothesis and is or is not matched by evidence during testing, which either is or is not repeatable. If a hypothesis passes these hurdles, it becomes theory, and will remain valid until such time something more accurate/precise comes along.

Indigenous cultures are under-represented in physics to the same extent women are under-represented in government in Saudi Arabia (and largely for similar reasons). Deal with the underlying racism, racism-supported endemic poverty, and virulently-racist government actions to get indigenous people a fair shot at working in those fields and leave the white-guilt buzzwords at home.

This isn't an attack on you... but your response does provide a near perfect example of why things like this project are an (unfortunate) necessity.

Try to reconcile the first sentence you wrote with the last one.  The first sentence essentially says, "Don't talk to me unless you have something worthwhile to say in my language," and the last is, "We need to deal with racial and cultural bias."  Do you see the disconnect?

Now imagine if that first sentence was the reaction to literally every aspect of your life for multiple generations.  Then add on the history of 'school == kidnapping, rape, and death'.  How likely are you going to be to want to engage education on European values?

It's unfortunate because the Western tradition of science is demonstrably the best method for understanding the universe and advancing human quality of life.  But colonialism absolutely farked up getting Indigenous peoples to buy into it... so now we have to do it the hard and inefficient way.  If respect had been shown from the start, we wouldn't be in this situation.

More word salad.


The point is that the ridiculously bad history between white people and indigenous cultures has absolutely fark all to do with physics.
 
2020-05-28 6:36:08 PM  

RTOGUY: We need to burn the universities down and start over again.


Please apply with these fellows for a grant before applying your Berserker culture to their problems.
 
2020-05-28 6:38:46 PM  
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe indigenous elders and shaman are a potentially invaluable resource for biology, ecology, and medicinal chemistry, but asking them for insight into physics is a stretch.
 
2020-05-28 8:10:55 PM  

Pharmdawg: Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe indigenous elders and shaman are a potentially invaluable resource for biology, ecology, and medicinal chemistry, but asking them for insight into physics is a stretch.


Depends on your goal.

I really doubt anyone anywhere believes that funding this study will upend our current understanding of physics and result in grand new theories.

But, if your goal was outreach and PR with indigenous peoples, this could be a cheap way to approach them. It is a cheap and interesting collaboration.

It doesn't need to prove Einstein wrong to be a worthwhile token investment.
 
2020-05-28 8:18:51 PM  
There is a benefit to decolonizing science in terms of having adequate representation of indigenous people doing science. A lot of that comes down to better education through early childhood, primary, and secondary  schools, which tend to really suck on Canadian reserves (poorly funded).

There's also a benefit to using more indigenous knowledge in some sciences, because indigenous knowledge can be fill gaps or complement scientific surveys (like ecology). For example, archaeologists used Inuit traditional knowledge passed down over the generations to help find the Terror and Erebus of the lost Franklin expedition.

But physics? Chemistry? Anything that's fundamentally math? Hard no.
 
2020-05-29 12:33:10 AM  
What I find bothersome about these sorts of stories is the assumption that hard science is identical to the humanities, and subject to the same revision every time there is a social of political upheaval. The Enlightenment rightly understood the hard sciences to be the great equalizer of humanity. You claim you're king by divine right? Prove it. You claim your racial, social, ethnic group is in some respect superior? Define your terms, show your work, and prove it. It's toppled kings and slowly, imperfectly, and unevenly demonstrated that in most respects that matter, humanity is homogenous.

If this is a study to attempt to engage indigenous people in the study of science by reframing knowledge in culturally appropriate language and concept, that's wonderful, and long overdue, but I wouldn't call that "decolonizing". It's more like outreach, but I suppose they're the ones that got the grant, so they know what they're doing. The fact is that Europeans also had a long tribal period when they understood things like weather and light in different ways and gave that stuff up pretty quickly when they came up with a system that worked better, at least in the short term, and gave them more access to wealth and power.
 
2020-05-29 12:51:58 AM  

Wenchmaster: Indigenous cultures are under-represented in physics to the same extent women are under-represented in government in Saudi Arabia (and largely for similar reasons).


Physics is the field where a small, minority indigenous population holds a majority of the Nobel prizes.
 
2020-05-29 1:45:24 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-29 2:15:33 AM  
Farkers applying same "world salad" method in different fields


Fark user image


Or "Them idiot scientists are smokin weed yall" in nearest physics thread
 
2020-05-29 12:17:49 PM  

Captain Shaky: But, if your goal was outreach and PR with indigenous peoples, this could be a cheap way to approach them. It is a cheap and interesting collaboration.  It doesn't need to prove Einstein wrong to be a worthwhile token investment.


$163,000 is a sizable token.

Oh wait, my bad -- Canadian dollars.   Carry on
 
2020-05-29 4:57:41 PM  

Kurohone: This isn't an attack on you... but your response does provide a near perfect example of why things like this project are an (unfortunate) necessity.

Try to reconcile the first sentence you wrote with the last one.  The first sentence essentially says, "Don't talk to me unless you have something worthwhile to say in my language," and the last is, "We need to deal with racial and cultural bias."  Do you see the disconnect?

Now imagine if that first sentence was the reaction to literally every aspect of your life for multiple generations.  Then add on the history of 'school == kidnapping, rape, and death'.  How likely are you going to be to want to engage education on European values?

It's unfortunate because the Western tradition of science is demonstrably the best method for understanding the universe and advancing human quality of life.  But colonialism absolutely farked up getting Indigenous peoples to buy into it... so now we have to do it the hard and inefficient way.  If respect had been shown from the start, we wouldn't be in this situation.



The scientific method does not care what color you are, what language you speak, what god(s) you worship, or where you are born. All that matters is evidence and testable predictions. The occurrence of the phrase 'western science' is itself misleading, because it is just science- the most accurate tool for describing how and why the universe works humans have so far developed. This is also known as objective reality, in that it remains true regardless of the state of credulity of those exposed to it. If scientists in Beijing or Tehran or Soweto advance scientific knowledge, is it still "western science"? If the idea is to get indigenous people to "buy into" objective reality, then those indigenous people need to "buy into" math and learn the scientific method. Period. Full stop.

Every culture has its own creation myths, but we don't teach those in science class. The reason those creation myths are not taught in science classes is because they have no value in providing testable hypotheses or predicting future results from present evidence and thereby creating ideas for future hypotheses, testing, and predictions. Just like every other creation myth on Earth, the First Nations' creation myths are objectively false and disproven by evidence from repeatable tests. There is no value in including creation myths from any source in a search for facts about the universe, because the myths are objectively and provably wrong.

If the idea is to encourage indigenous people to contribute to science, I'm all for it. Too many generations of scientific advances have been delayed or lost because those who may have developed new or better understanding of objective reality were denied the opportunity due to the blinkered pig-ignorance of their contemporaries. That bigoted refusal to accept any ideas from non-European/white/christian/male sources is not science- and is often itself undone by application of the scientific method to the rantings of bigots. Increasing inclusion in the scientific community is an intrinsically worthwhile goal, but this will NOT be achieved by trying to add sky fairy bullshiat to science curricula. The organization in TFA spent a lot of verbiage saying their goal was to add provable falsehoods into the discussion of objective reality.

How would one go about testing whether a giant raven created the world? What objective value is provided by making the attempt to test this? Why does anyone think that sort of question belongs in a study of objective reality? In the Soviet Union, it was decided that certain developmental traits in adult humans would be transmitted to the next generation. Somehow, a man who worked out his whole life to develop muscles would pass his musculature on to his offspring. Someone who spent years learning to play the piano could produce a child born with those abilities. This was the official position on the USSR, despite the fact it was easily debunked as bullshiat. It was globally ridiculed- not because it came from the USSR, but because it was objectively wrong. No one involved in scientific inquiry used this hypothesis, despite the originator's insistence that all the contrary evidence was somehow proof of a conspiracy against the USSR and not merely facts remaining facts despite the political backing of the politburo. Closer to home, the so-called 'intelligent design' bullshiat promulgated by christian dominionists in the US was rightfully dismissed as bullshiat because it cannot make testable predictions and does not match the available evidence, and is therefore NOT SCIENCE.

Closer to the topic at hand, many First Nations people outright reject a great deal of anthropological research and its supporting evidence because the facts and evidence contradict tribal lore. DNA testing of human remains in various North American sites has revealed that very few of the current First Nations communities have more than the most tenuous connections to some of the earliest human inhabitants of the continent. This supports the theory there were multiple waves of human migration to North America from Asia, involving a wide variety of human source populations. This evidence is in direct contradiction to many First Nations beliefs that their ancestors were created in the lands where those tribes were 'discovered' by European migrants in the 16th century CE. If fables are contradicted by evidence, they have no value in most scientific inquiry- even if those fables are part of the oral history of a ruthlessly-oppressed culture.

If TFA was about using indigenous peoples' traditions and oral history as a tool to encourage improved acceptance of objective reality among those indigenous people, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If TFA had been about trying to improve non-indigenous understanding and acceptance of indigenous cultures, there would be a similar lack of discussion. But TFA said the goal was to force indigenous cultural traditions into the scientific method- completely violating scientific principles in the process. Including sky fairies in the search for objective evidence about the universe does not improve the process of learning more about the universe. This is true if the source of the bullshiat is indigenous culture, religious extremism, nationalism, or political ideology. Facts is facts. Woo is NOT facts. Adding Woo to the search for facts makes it harder to search for facts, and reduces the utility of our best tool for determining what is and is not a fact.

Wanting to atone of for the atrocities of the past (including the very recent past) is a laudable goal. Trying to shoehorn indigenous traditions into physics research does absolutely nothing to obviate the horrors inflicted on indigenous groups by the descendants of the people who happened to work out a more accurate and precise method for learning about the universe. Adding a bunch of wild flowers, several chicken feathers, and the eyes of a newt does not improve the accuracy of a measuring instrument. Slaughtering a goat and reading its entrails does not increase the accurate range of long-term weather forecasts. Reading tea leaves or throwing chicken bones into the air does not test whether 2 + 2 actually equals 4.

Systemic racism will not be overcome by watering down scientific principles to accommodate the cultural traditions of the historically oppressed minority groups. This method isn't even the equivalent of treating a sucking chest wound with thoughts and prayers. It's closer to blowing one's own foot off with a shotgun because that's what happened to one of the kids down the street. Deal with the actual systemic racism problem, and help the victims of that systemic racism get equal access to the benefits of living in a world crammed full of the wonders wrought by using science. Let the indigenous people make their own decisions about how much they wish to partake of the mechanized world their oppressors have created- but make damned sure they make an informed choice freely and of their own will. That specifically includes correcting the systemic abuses the indigenous groups are currently suffering. Hold people, groups, commercial entities, and governments accountable for their bad behavior. Remove the systemic obstacles to indigenous people getting access to enough information to permit them to make informed choices.

Through no fault of their own, indigenous populations all over the world have fallen victim to the high-tech culture exported at gun- and sword- point from the area around the Mediterranean Sea. Many of the people descended from those who conquered the world with science are justifiably horrified and ashamed when they learn the facts about that conquest. Watering down science won't make it right- it will likely make things worse. Deal with the underlying illness (systemic racism) in lieu of treating the symptoms the side effects of the medicine used to treat some of the symptoms.

But actually confronting past and current systemic racism is hard ... and takes a long time to even begin to show results ... and costs a lot of money. It's much easier/cheaper/faster to cram a bunch of white-guilt buzzwords into a grant application and pat yourself on the back.

tl/dr: There is no such thing as "western science", and anyone claiming they're trying to "de-colonialize" "western science" probably has a grift in the works.
 
2020-05-29 5:42:51 PM  
Knee-jerk-wall-of-text
 
2020-05-29 5:50:02 PM  

LewDux: Many strawmen knew what it was to be crushed under Knee-jerk-wall-of-text that day, I can tell you!

 
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