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(NBC News)   New study shows that asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 may be even more prevalent than previously thought and can shed the virus for 8 days, but go ahead keep complaining about having to wear a mask when you're "healthy"   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Infectious disease, Disease, Infection, World Health Organization, New estimates of the number of asymptomatic people, Epidemiology, Influenza, COVID-19  
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3341 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 28 May 2020 at 12:05 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-27 9:11:15 PM  
If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else
 
2020-05-27 11:01:19 PM  

Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate endanger everybody else


The greater the amount of asymptomatic transmission, the more effective universal mask compliance becomes at protecting everyone.

If you believe a mask is more powerful as a symbol than as a public health measure, maybe you shouldn't be allowed in public without a handler.
 
2020-05-28 12:10:37 AM  
On the downside, that is going to make squashing community spread a biatch.

On the upside, that will mean that the fatality rate is likely overestimated.
 
2020-05-28 12:11:22 AM  
Fark masks! Mah Constitooshunul Freedumbs are more important than your grandma!!!
MAGA!!
 
2020-05-28 12:11:28 AM  

common sense is an oxymoron: the more effective universal mask compliance becomes at protecting everyone.


Do you have a study that shows how effective masks are?  I have not seen anything that really is able to quantify that.
 
2020-05-28 12:12:53 AM  
And so you know, "Phantom of the Opera" masks are not good enough.
 
2020-05-28 12:13:14 AM  
 
2020-05-28 12:18:15 AM  

Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else


Another example of the level of respect we have for our elders. Lock them up so that people like this can act like assholes.
 
2020-05-28 12:18:30 AM  
New study shows that asymptomatic cases of Covid19 may be even more prevalent then previous thought and can shed the virus for 8 days, but go ahead keep complaining about having to wear a mask when you're "healthy"

Subby, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.  Which is a phrase that most of the internet is completely ignorant of or disagrees with
 
2020-05-28 12:19:38 AM  

caljar: Here is a study.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspe​ctive/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-cov​id-19-not-based-sound-data


Yeah, that doesn't do anything but refute CSIAO's post.
 
2020-05-28 12:23:12 AM  

Noseybonk: Another example of the level of respect we have for our elders. Lock them up so that people like this can act like assholes.


Beats the option of sending COVID positive patients right into their midst and then trying to cover it up.
 
2020-05-28 12:23:17 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 12:25:02 AM  

Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else


Well, your name certainly fits.
 
2020-05-28 12:25:13 AM  

caljar: Here is a study.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspe​ctive/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-cov​id-19-not-based-sound-data


Ah jeez, not this crap again.  1) April 1st for the date.  Take that for what it's worth.  2) The goal is not 100% prevention of transmission, but to reduce the _probability_ of spread such that there is not a huge spike.  Intelligent people realize there will still be spread, and that it's a _probability_, modified by my behavior, that governs my chances.

If everyone is reasonably careful, there will be a hospital bed available if I need it.  If everyone says we're in stage "Two dot farkit", then I'll be competing for a hospital bed with you.

/ And I probably have more money than you so I'll get the better care
// Until I get the bill, then we're equally f'd.
/// Wear your damn mask
 
2020-05-28 12:25:55 AM  

trappedspirit: New study shows that asymptomatic cases of Covid19 may be even more prevalent then previous thought and can shed the virus for 8 days, but go ahead keep complaining about having to wear a mask when you're "healthy"


Problem with this forced conclusion to your argument is that I still haven't seen a study that details the efficiency of masks in preventing the spread of Covid, other than the kind of studies that caljar posed.
 
2020-05-28 12:27:39 AM  

abhorrent1: [Fark user image 510x467]


That looks super-duper scientifically quantified and peer-reviewed.

/was she eating Triscuts during the right hand experiment?
 
2020-05-28 12:28:48 AM  
This is why I don't make out with strangers anymore.
 
2020-05-28 12:29:53 AM  
If I am going to be the reason someone's grandma dies, it should be because of how good I am in bed, not because I sneezed in the produce section.

Wear a mask
 
2020-05-28 12:30:48 AM  
So one of the big questions this brings up is : Do asymptomatic people develop antibodies/immunity?

You need to know the answer to that in order to make any predictions of how the epidemic will play out.
 
2020-05-28 12:31:32 AM  

HeadLever: common sense is an oxymoron: the more effective universal mask compliance becomes at protecting everyone.

Do you have a study that shows how effective masks are?  I have not seen anything that really is able to quantify that.


D. F. Johnson, J. D. Druce, C. Birch, M. L. Grayson. "A quantitative assessment of the efficacy of surgical and N95 masks to filter influenza virus in patients with acute influenza infection."

Clin. Infect. Dis. 49, 275-277 (2009). Indicates that surgical and N95 masks (the non-valve variety) are equally effective at egress filtering for influenza virus. Experimental method used RT-PCR to detect virus on sample plates 20 cm from an infected, coughing patient.

D. Milton, M. Fabian, B. Cowling, M. Grantham, J. McDevitt. "Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks." PLOS Pathog. 9, (2013). Indicates surgical masks produce a greater than 3-fold reduction of exhaled droplets and are effective at source control.

S. Bae, et al. "Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARSCoV-2: A Controlled Comparison in 4 Patients." Annals Intern. Medicine (2020). This particularly interesting study had COVID-19 patients cough onto a sample plate at 20 cm distance and alternate between mask and no mask. It was a small-n study, but it showed a 10-fold decrease in exhaled viral load...using a cotton mask.

Leung, et al. "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks," Nature Medicine 26, 676-80, 03 Apr. 2020. Relevant: "Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals." (cf. the Bae et al. paper referenced earlier which noted similar particle capture rates for cotton and surgical masks).

van der Sande et al. "Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections Among the General Population," PLoS One, 2008 Jul. 9, 3(7). Relevant: "Any type of general mask use is likely to decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, in spite of imperfect fit and imperfect adherence, personal respirators providing most protection."

Davies et al. "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?" Dis. Med. Pub. Health Prep. 2013 Aug 7(4) 413-418. Relevant: "The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask....Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection." Results indicate that for sub-micron particles (as measured by total colony-forming units isolated after coughing), the no-mask, homemade-mask, and surgical-mask numbers were 21, 6, and 3.
 
2020-05-28 12:31:35 AM  

HeadLever: trappedspirit: New study shows that asymptomatic cases of Covid19 may be even more prevalent then previous thought and can shed the virus for 8 days, but go ahead keep complaining about having to wear a mask when you're "healthy"

Problem with this forced conclusion to your argument is that I still haven't seen a study that details the efficiency of masks in preventing the spread of Covid, other than the kind of studies that caljar posed.


COVID is not spread is some crazy new way. It's distributed through droplets from your mouth and nose. Masks can limit the droplets that reach the space that other people inhabit. 

You don't need a study to understand how masks reduce transmission...but it might be helpful to pull your head out of your @ss.
 
2020-05-28 12:31:47 AM  
I'll keep coming back and rubbing it in: for those who were so loud and vocal about people not needing to wear a mask during this pandemic while all of us in Asia said you all should wear masks to help prevent the spread, y'all can shut up and fark the hell off now.
 
2020-05-28 12:34:07 AM  

Noseybonk: Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else

Another example of the level of respect we have for our elders. Lock them up so that people like this can act like assholes.


I think that some people just hate their parents and want them to die. I assume there's an inheritance involved, or just settling old scores.
 
2020-05-28 12:34:34 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Do asymptomatic people develop antibodies/immunity?


I believe that this is generally a "yes".  They find these people through the antibody testing.

/QED
 
2020-05-28 12:34:36 AM  

Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else


T4
 
2020-05-28 12:37:00 AM  
Considering that we aren't likely to get a vaccine anytime soon, when do you think the fark crowd is going to be ready to get back out and live their lives again? Or is it just going to be a spontaneous bandwagon following consensus of the peanut gallery? Is there some sort of line in the sand that will get people out from under their beds or are we just going to wait until there's nothing left to come back to? I only ask because it seems there's a whole lot of generalized pretentious dismissal of anybody who has already decided to get back out there. Is there a fark approved scientist who is also awesome at making policy decisions that we are all following on Twitter or something?
 
2020-05-28 12:37:57 AM  

trappedspirit: New study shows that asymptomatic cases of Covid19 may be even more prevalent then previous thought and can shed the virus for 8 days, but go ahead keep complaining about having to wear a mask when you're "healthy"

Subby, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.  Which is a phrase that most of the internet is completely ignorant of or disagrees with


Bullshiat. Vinegar works better than honey. Try it.

https://xkcd.com/357/
 
2020-05-28 12:38:32 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 12:38:56 AM  

Johnsnownw: COVID is not spread is some crazy new way. It's distributed through droplets from your mouth and nose. Masks can limit the droplets that reach the space that other people inhabit.


True, but the issue is that masks also make people touch their face more.  I have no qualms about wearing them (I do when I go inside where there are many people), however; creating a premise that masks will be the cure-all to this problem without this real world, empirical information is misguided.
 
2020-05-28 12:40:35 AM  

Il Douchey: /Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else


Almost half of Americans have a chronic medical condition that predisposes them to a bad outcome should they become infected. Isolating the vulnerable is hardly any different, numerically, from maintaining lockdown permanently. Neither choice is a viable option.


Wear a mask. Don't talk, sing, or breathe heavily in public. Don't participate in indoor gatherings of any size.  The lives you save probably won't be your own, but the jobs you save might include yours.
 
2020-05-28 12:40:36 AM  
I'm waiting for my co-worker's kid to get his COVID test results so we find out if we're all getting tested, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

/work in a pharmacy
//wear a mask on the clock
///wash your faking hands
 
2020-05-28 12:40:44 AM  

Gheist: I only ask because it seems there's a whole lot of generalized pretentious dismissal of anybody who has already decided to get back out there...and abandon social distancing.


FTFY

Maybe if more people took social distancing more seriously, more people would feel comfortable going out.

But when you have a bunch of jerk offs who decide to hold gatherings like this, it makes it difficult.

static01.nyt.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 12:44:26 AM  
I'm wearing a mask and gloves and don't give a shiat if people think it looks weird.
 
2020-05-28 12:45:15 AM  
In general, a mask doesn't protect you, it offers some modicum of protection to the people you encounter.

Thus not wearing a mask tells everyone you encounter that you don't care about them, you only care about yourself.

In the midst of a global pandemic, you are outing yourself as the selfish asshole you truly are.

Just admit that you don't give a shiat for your fellow man
 
2020-05-28 12:46:06 AM  

HeadLever: Johnsnownw: COVID is not spread is some crazy new way. It's distributed through droplets from your mouth and nose. Masks can limit the droplets that reach the space that other people inhabit.

True, but the issue is that masks also make people touch their face more.  I have no qualms about wearing them (I do when I go inside where there are many people), however; creating a premise that masks will be the cure-all to this problem without this real world, empirical information is misguided.


Condoms aren't a cure-all for pregnancy and STIs. Should that stop public health experts from recommending people wear condoms when having casual sex?
 
2020-05-28 12:46:32 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Gheist: I only ask because it seems there's a whole lot of generalized pretentious dismissal of anybody who has already decided to get back out there...and abandon social distancing.

FTFY

Maybe if more people took social distancing more seriously, more people would feel comfortable going out.

But when you have a bunch of jerk offs who decide to hold gatherings like this, it makes it difficult.

[static01.nyt.com image 850x566]


While your point is well taken, you know that's never going to be fully controlled right? If those things are going to happen anyhow, when do the rest of us get to start having lives again? Especially considering that it looks like the mortality rate isn't really that scary after all. I'm here in Los Angeles, the "epicenter" of the SoCal outbreak and our hospitals never even got close to overwhelmed. Can we declare some sort of victory and rebuild our economy and futures or are we just going to have to put up with the basement dwellers pretending that the best policy decision is not to leave the house ever again.
 
2020-05-28 12:46:33 AM  

Gheist: Considering that we aren't likely to get a vaccine anytime soon, when do you think the fark crowd is going to be ready to get back out and live their lives again? Or is it just going to be a spontaneous bandwagon following consensus of the peanut gallery? Is there some sort of line in the sand that will get people out from under their beds or are we just going to wait until there's nothing left to come back to? I only ask because it seems there's a whole lot of generalized pretentious dismissal of anybody who has already decided to get back out there. Is there a fark approved scientist who is also awesome at making policy decisions that we are all following on Twitter or something?


A good indicator would be having adequate testing rates, declining tottal infection rates, declining death rates, and declining positive test rates. Most states where people are pushing to reopen have shiat testing rates, meaning the numbers are unknown, and/or one or more of the other rates are increasing, meaning it's actively getting worse there. It's generally a good idea to wait for things to start getting better, or at least stop getting worse, before you go out and join the pandemic.
 
2020-05-28 12:49:52 AM  

Il Douchey: If you're scared of this, put on shoes; don't demand that the world be covered in rubber.

/Isolate the old and sick, liberate everybody else


They make this neat stuff- liquid latex, that people , usually couple, paint themselves with.
I would love to cover your whole body with it.
Of course, concrete is cheaper. Hmmmm.
 
2020-05-28 12:49:59 AM  

wood0366: HeadLever: common sense is an oxymoron: the more effective universal mask compliance becomes at protecting everyone.

Do you have a study that shows how effective masks are?  I have not seen anything that really is able to quantify that.

D. F. Johnson, J. D. Druce, C. Birch, M. L. Grayson. "A quantitative assessment of the efficacy of surgical and N95 masks to filter influenza virus in patients with acute influenza infection."

Clin. Infect. Dis. 49, 275-277 (2009). Indicates that surgical and N95 masks (the non-valve variety) are equally effective at egress filtering for influenza virus. Experimental method used RT-PCR to detect virus on sample plates 20 cm from an infected, coughing patient.

D. Milton, M. Fabian, B. Cowling, M. Grantham, J. McDevitt. "Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks." PLOS Pathog. 9, (2013). Indicates surgical masks produce a greater than 3-fold reduction of exhaled droplets and are effective at source control.

S. Bae, et al. "Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARSCoV-2: A Controlled Comparison in 4 Patients." Annals Intern. Medicine (2020). This particularly interesting study had COVID-19 patients cough onto a sample plate at 20 cm distance and alternate between mask and no mask. It was a small-n study, but it showed a 10-fold decrease in exhaled viral load...using a cotton mask.

Leung, et al. "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks," Nature Medicine 26, 676-80, 03 Apr. 2020. Relevant: "Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals." (cf. the Bae et al. paper referenced earlier which noted similar particl ...


Thanks! - First question - any links to those?  I know that they are sometimes hard to get the full paper info.

Just trying to determine if these are peer-reviewed based upon medical (hospital/clinic setting) or in the real world by laypeople using non-N95 materials?  I don't doubt that masks of any shape and size provides some level of protection as any filter material will.  However, some of the ancillary handling and cleaning aspects could negate much of the benefits that this mechanical separation provides.

I generally agree with wearing masks in crowded places, especially in areas where there is community spread and distancing is not easy.  However, I am also a bit dubious on this being a cure all as many are alluding to here.
 
2020-05-28 12:50:40 AM  
I might consider going back out regularly when my area no longer has arseholes that insist on walking right up to people wearing masks and asking them why they're scared and/or coughing on them. There are times when I hate humanity.  This is one of those times.
 
2020-05-28 12:51:04 AM  

Gheist: Can we declare some sort of victory


How can you declare victory on something that's still ongoing?

We can reopen but we still need to be cognizant of social distancing.

This notion that we can let our guard down as we reopen is a dangerous one and will put us in a bad spot down the road.
 
2020-05-28 12:52:03 AM  

HeadLever: Johnsnownw: COVID is not spread is some crazy new way. It's distributed through droplets from your mouth and nose. Masks can limit the droplets that reach the space that other people inhabit.

True, but the issue is that masks also make people touch their face more.  I have no qualms about wearing them (I do when I go inside where there are many people), however; creating a premise that masks will be the cure-all to this problem without this real world, empirical information is misguided.


I know of no one hawking masks as a cure-all, certainly that's not the information disseminated by the CDC. What medical professionals are saying is that, outside of quarantine, it's the best way to reduce transmission. 

There should be no debate about wearing a mask. You just do it.
 
2020-05-28 12:52:03 AM  

HeadLever: On the upside, that will mean that the fatality rate is likely overestimated.


even with if it had an 80% asymptomatic rate it would still have 10x the IFR of influenza
 
2020-05-28 12:52:06 AM  

Error 482: Gheist: Considering that we aren't likely to get a vaccine anytime soon, when do you think the fark crowd is going to be ready to get back out and live their lives again? Or is it just going to be a spontaneous bandwagon following consensus of the peanut gallery? Is there some sort of line in the sand that will get people out from under their beds or are we just going to wait until there's nothing left to come back to? I only ask because it seems there's a whole lot of generalized pretentious dismissal of anybody who has already decided to get back out there. Is there a fark approved scientist who is also awesome at making policy decisions that we are all following on Twitter or something?

A good indicator would be having adequate testing rates, declining tottal infection rates, declining death rates, and declining positive test rates. Most states where people are pushing to reopen have shiat testing rates, meaning the numbers are unknown, and/or one or more of the other rates are increasing, meaning it's actively getting worse there. It's generally a good idea to wait for things to start getting better, or at least stop getting worse, before you go out and join the pandemic.


What's considered "good"? Seems a bit subjective to me.
Here in Los Angeles the percentage of the population that is testing positive is decreasing significantly (despite confirmed cases increasing because all the expanded testing) hospitalizations are down. Deaths are down. Overall things are definitely getting better. Do I still need to be terrified? Especially considering the survivability for someone in my age group is about 99.98%?

Also, was it worth it for the 24% and climbing unemployment rate here?
 
2020-05-28 12:52:14 AM  

kayanlau: I'll keep coming back and rubbing it in: for those who were so loud and vocal about people not needing to wear a mask during this pandemic while all of us in Asia said you all should wear masks to help prevent the spread, y'all can shut up and fark the hell off now.


Please do! I was giving the protocols in Asia as an example and talking about pulling scarves over my face before masks became available again, and I was reamed on IG for being ignorant of science.

Imagine how the farkheads feel right about now.
 
2020-05-28 12:52:38 AM  

abhorrent1: Fark masks! Mah Constitooshunul Freedumbs are more important than your grandma!!!
MAGA!!


whoa i did not expect that from someone i have farkied as an nra-fanboy
 
2020-05-28 12:52:48 AM  

HeadLever: Johnsnownw: COVID is not spread is some crazy new way. It's distributed through droplets from your mouth and nose. Masks can limit the droplets that reach the space that other people inhabit.

True, but the issue is that masks also make people touch their face more.  I have no qualms about wearing them (I do when I go inside where there are many people), however; creating a premise that masks will be the cure-all to this problem without this real world, empirical information is misguided.


Who's claiming masks to be a cure-all? It's about slowing the spread and doing what we can to minimize contagion. It's unbelievable that this still has to be explained to people.
 
2020-05-28 12:53:04 AM  

caljar: Here is a study.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspe​ctive/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-cov​id-19-not-based-sound-data


That's not a study. That's an opinion.
 
2020-05-28 12:54:21 AM  
Guys, ya gotta listen to the totally earnest, totally not trolls making their totally good faith arguments.

They are just swatting down the totally real arguments that you all are totally making, like masks are the cure-all for the virus and that nobody should leave their house again.
 
2020-05-28 12:54:24 AM  
I seriously don't understand these people and their fear of masks... Whenever I have mine on mentally I'm running around as Sub-Zero after one too many kegs of beer.

/do they not like ninjas?
 
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