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(Atlas Obscura)   The Black Death raised the wages of the peasants, and they spent it on better beer   (atlasobscura.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Beer, Public house, Black Death, uniform measures of ale, oldest pub, landlord of Ye Olde Fighting Cocks, victims of what medieval historian Norman Cantor, place of the simple ale stake  
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786 clicks; posted to Food » and Geek » on 27 May 2020 at 11:29 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



28 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-05-27 10:15:58 PM  
This was my goal all along. I'm sorry your government couldn't manage me better, but that's not my fault.
 
2020-05-27 10:59:34 PM  
Can't we just skip straight to the more money and better beer part?
 
2020-05-28 12:52:00 AM  
lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size


"We have the tools, we have the will; we travel into Hell, but God travels with us." 

Is going to be my new beer run motto.
 
2020-05-28 1:40:47 AM  
Historically you have to know that there were serfs, slaves, peasants, boobs, hustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers, and Methodists.

/technically i am a methodist
//no i don't go to church and that is my God Given Right
 
2020-05-28 1:56:19 AM  
Makes good sense. Beer was all they had to drink that wasn't dangerous. The rich had their wine, and the working people and middle classes made their own beer. Tea wasn't invented by the Chinese yet, and coffee was a Heathen Muslim beverage until it was Christianized by Pope Clement the something or other (I forget his number, but I think it has a VII in it).

Water, fuel, food and clothing were almost the only things to spend your money on unless you were rich. They went to bed early and got up early, so candles and fuel were great luxeries and new clothing was a once a year item for servants and other hanger-ons, less frequent for peasants.
 
2020-05-28 3:20:51 AM  
Dilly dilly!
 
2020-05-28 3:28:04 AM  

casual disregard: serfs, slaves, peasants, boobs, hustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers, and Methodists


I read that in Grace's voice.
ll-media.tmz.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-28 6:41:20 AM  
Started and ended by pandemics.
 
2020-05-28 6:44:19 AM  
"Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".
 
2020-05-28 7:02:15 AM  

Jim_Callahan: "Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".


They had it coming.
 
2020-05-28 7:18:13 AM  
So... Coronavirus is a good thing?
 
2020-05-28 7:19:26 AM  

turboke: Jim_Callahan: "Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".

They had it coming.


They still do.
 
2020-05-28 7:37:18 AM  

brantgoose: Makes good sense. Beer was all they had to drink that wasn't dangerous. The rich had their wine, and the working people and middle classes made their own beer. Tea wasn't invented by the Chinese yet, and coffee was a Heathen Muslim beverage until it was Christianized by Pope Clement the something or other (I forget his number, but I think it has a VII in it).

Water, fuel, food and clothing were almost the only things to spend your money on unless you were rich. They went to bed early and got up early, so candles and fuel were great luxeries and new clothing was a once a year item for servants and other hanger-ons, less frequent for peasants.


The funny thing is that over all those centuries, no one put two and two together and realized that if you boil water, you're much less likely to get sick.

I mean, they knew beer was safe, and you boil the water for that first.  They knew wine was safe*, and you boil the water for that first.  They knew soups and stews were safe, and you boil the water for those too.

Just observationally, it should have been relatively easy to grasp the idea that boiling water makes it safer to drink.

This is something that's commonly known today, which is why I don't think we'll ever have widespread outbreaks of something like Cholera even in situations where normal infrastructure breaks down.  Everyone has heard of "boil water orders" from the authorities.  The only people who won't be able to do that kind of thing are those not smart enough to figure out how to boil water.


*At least, if it wasn't adulterated, which it commonly was, at least back in Roman times.
 
2020-05-28 7:37:24 AM  
They named a pub "The Fighting Cocks"?

Fark user imageView Full Size

/nttiawwt
 
2020-05-28 8:20:46 AM  
Well if they live in poverty they might as well enjoy themselves.
 
2020-05-28 8:28:59 AM  
I can't believe people with more money buy better things.
 
2020-05-28 9:05:53 AM  
Wow, they should have used that money to pay off their student loans, mortgages, and contribute to their 401K.
 
2020-05-28 9:35:51 AM  
Actually, one luxury splurge by the peasants, the buying and wearing of underwear. directly led to a quantum leap forward in human civilization.  As the printing presses were first coming on line about a century later, the habit of peasants to wear underwear, something their improved fortunes after the black death made possible, meant there were plenty of rags available to be turned into cheap paper, to allow mas production of cheap books
 
2020-05-28 9:46:10 AM  

Magorn: Actually, one luxury splurge by the peasants, the buying and wearing of underwear. directly led to a quantum leap forward in human civilization.  As the printing presses were first coming on line about a century later, the habit of peasants to wear underwear, something their improved fortunes after the black death made possible, meant there were plenty of rags available to be turned into cheap paper, to allow mas production of cheap books


James Burke Connections, Ep. 4 "Faith in Numbers"
Youtube z6yL0_sDnX0


Fast forward to about the 20 minute mark to get to the part where frilly knickers led to paper which led to books.
 
2020-05-28 9:47:05 AM  

bughunter: casual disregard: serfs, slaves, peasants, boobs, hustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers, and Methodists

I read that in Grace's voice.
[ll-media.tmz.com image 394x223]


They think he's a righteous dude.
 
2020-05-28 9:54:32 AM  

Jim_Callahan: "Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".


My understanding is that, for the most part, the wage increase went to the people whose jobs it was to "motivate" the peasants to work, or else.
 
2020-05-28 9:59:25 AM  

dittybopper: Magorn: Actually, one luxury splurge by the peasants, the buying and wearing of underwear. directly led to a quantum leap forward in human civilization.  As the printing presses were first coming on line about a century later, the habit of peasants to wear underwear, something their improved fortunes after the black death made possible, meant there were plenty of rags available to be turned into cheap paper, to allow mas production of cheap books

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/z6yL0_sD​nX0]

Fast forward to about the 20 minute mark to get to the part where frilly knickers led to paper which led to books.


That's precisely where I learned that, thanks!
 
2020-05-28 10:12:23 AM  

Arkanaut: My understanding is that, for the most part, the wage increase went to the people whose jobs it was to "motivate" the peasants to work, or else.


Your understanding is incorrect.

It led to real increases in wages even for the lowest workers.   It also led to greater mobility, because there was essentially nothing you could do to prevent people from simply going where the work paid better.

Feudalism in England, at least, was largely killed by the Black Death.  Not immediately, but the devastating impact it had on *EVERYBODY* meant that the rules were initially relaxed because things had to be done, and they were gradually abolished over the next 300 years.

Of course, England always walked a fine line.  The defense of the realm rested largely on the shoulders of the peasants and yeomanry, which meant they were obligated to be armed according to their economic station, and while no peasant or yeoman could defeat a knight on a one-to-one basis (except during the primacy of the great warbow), a large group of pissed off peasants and yeomanry could defeat a small number of knights.

So even before the Black Death, things weren't as bad for the typical English peasant as for, say, the typical French peasant.
 
2020-05-28 10:14:29 AM  
Hmm the wage increase came because so many litterate people died (mainly in the clergy) that the elite (1% of society) HAD TO let the poor people into their ranks or else the church would literally cease to exist and all their power would be gone with it... so they had to teach a lot of poor people how to read and write because they didnt know who would survive the plague.

The black death was good for humanity and europe as a whole... if it hadnt happened, the dark ages would have lasted 200-300 more years.
 
2020-05-28 10:16:40 AM  

Magorn: dittybopper: Magorn: Actually, one luxury splurge by the peasants, the buying and wearing of underwear. directly led to a quantum leap forward in human civilization.  As the printing presses were first coming on line about a century later, the habit of peasants to wear underwear, something their improved fortunes after the black death made possible, meant there were plenty of rags available to be turned into cheap paper, to allow mas production of cheap books

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/z6yL0_sD​nX0]

Fast forward to about the 20 minute mark to get to the part where frilly knickers led to paper which led to books.

That's precisely where I learned that, thanks!


I enjoyed that series when I was younger.

A few years ago, I was at the local library during one of it's fundraising book sales, and I saw a copy of the companion book for the series, so I bought it.  Best $2 I ever spent.

People donate books to the library to be sold to raise money.  I habitually go because you can find some amazing books for very cheap.

Check out that amazingly miniaturized GPS receiver at the very beginning......
 
2020-05-28 11:28:52 AM  

dready zim: turboke: Jim_Callahan: "Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".

They had it coming.

They still do.


Maybe if the wealthy didn't do shiat to make people want to shred them apart by the limbs, those things wouldn't happen.

However, since it takes the absolute destruction of humanity to make such a situation occur, which improves the lower classes lives, at the expense of the rich, who've generally enslaved folk for the most part, you can see why they get rich again with all these bootlickers willing to bend themselves over for someone who's a bigger piece of shiat than they are.

It's no wonder Britain sent men to march straight into machine gun fire, dying like flies, willingly marching into death by the thousands, because.

I can't think of a reason someone would need more than 500k a year besides greed.  Sure the president deserves 400k-500k and other such important positions, but really, everything else is simply enslaving others to simply benefit yourself and only yourself, using the local population and environment as a body, until it's no longer useful, then is discarded as the rich person moves to the next body to leech off of.

It's why potatoes were so important compared to grain, you didn't need the labor or slaves for potatoes, so it was easier to feed yourself.

Anyways, supply of labor goes down, wages goes up as demand doesn't fall as much.  Simple economics.

Oh those poor rich people.
 
2020-05-28 5:30:31 PM  

links136: dready zim: turboke: Jim_Callahan: "Raised their wages" is an interesting way to phrase a situation where the chaos and decimation of the wealthy class made it easier for them to be murdered in their beds by less-autocratic nobles, forced into disadvantageous contracts by angry commoners out of fear for their lives, or outright lynched and replaced by democratic counsels and such.

I mean, sure, okay, the end result was that the lower classes had more money and better pay, but that's like saying that if I murder you and turn your skin into an umbrella I've "been gifted better rain protection by the wealthy".

They had it coming.

They still do.

Maybe if the wealthy didn't do shiat to make people want to shred them apart by the limbs, those things wouldn't happen.

However, since it takes the absolute destruction of humanity to make such a situation occur, which improves the lower classes lives, at the expense of the rich, who've generally enslaved folk for the most part, you can see why they get rich again with all these bootlickers willing to bend themselves over for someone who's a bigger piece of shiat than they are.

It's no wonder Britain sent men to march straight into machine gun fire, dying like flies, willingly marching into death by the thousands, because.

I can't think of a reason someone would need more than 500k a year besides greed.  Sure the president deserves 400k-500k and other such important positions, but really, everything else is simply enslaving others to simply benefit yourself and only yourself, using the local population and environment as a body, until it's no longer useful, then is discarded as the rich person moves to the next body to leech off of.

It's why potatoes were so important compared to grain, you didn't need the labor or slaves for potatoes, so it was easier to feed yourself.

Anyways, supply of labor goes down, wages goes up as demand doesn't fall as much.  Simple economics.

Oh those poor rich people.


Kind of an idiot aren't you?
 
2020-05-28 7:03:01 PM  
Priorities, people!
 
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