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(Dark Horizons)   Christopher Nolan crashed a real 747 for Tenet, because it was cheaper than CG. Innocent bystanders were actually killed as well, because it was cheaper than CG   (darkhorizons.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Christopher Nolan, Film director, Mind, Film, Nolan's films, filmmaker Chris Nolan, 3D computer graphics, real plane of the real size  
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2838 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 27 May 2020 at 11:48 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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TWX [TotalFark]
2020-05-27 4:55:08 PM  
Innocent bystanders were actually killed as well, because it was cheaper than CG

No subby, you're thinking of John Landis.
 
2020-05-27 6:03:05 PM  

TWX: Innocent bystanders were actually killed as well, because it was cheaper than CG

No subby, you're thinking of John Landis.



I think the important thing here is we don't go to pieces over Vic Morrow.
 
2020-05-27 6:39:36 PM  
Fun trivia: the railway sabotage / train crash scene in Lawrence of Arabia was done by crashing an actual train. Good thing they didn't need a second take.

In their defense, CGI was not an option.
 
2020-05-27 8:49:43 PM  
Tenet, but hundreds of thousands went hungry.

Economics!
 
2020-05-27 8:56:41 PM  
I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.
 
2020-05-27 11:53:40 PM  

Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.


It was probably way cooler, though.
 
2020-05-28 12:08:40 AM  

Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.


Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.
 
2020-05-28 12:15:29 AM  

elvisaintdead: TWX: Innocent bystanders were actually killed as well, because it was cheaper than CG

No subby, you're thinking of John Landis.


I think the important thing here is we don't go to pieces over Vic Morrow.


At least he no longer had to suffer with his dandruff problem

/they found his Head & Shoulders at the scene of the accident
 
2020-05-28 12:18:12 AM  
Doesn't shock me, he always uses practical effects when possible.  Opening scene in TDKR?  Yeah, that was a real fuselage hanging from another plane.
 
2020-05-28 12:30:00 AM  
From 1992...

Bill's idea for a movie
Youtube aQFq6sGcOpk
 
2020-05-28 12:31:21 AM  
Actually they did crash the plane but then ran time backwards to un-do it,  and returned it for the deposit.
 
2020-05-28 12:36:54 AM  
Not as spectacular, but Taylor Hackford did it in "White Nights" way back in 1985.
 
2020-05-28 12:42:44 AM  

calufrax: From 1992...

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/aQFq6sGc​Opk?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


They were using CG to replace stunt people's faces already in 1992. Jurassic Park comes to mind.
 
2020-05-28 12:49:15 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: elvisaintdead: TWX: Innocent bystanders were actually killed as well, because it was cheaper than CG

No subby, you're thinking of John Landis.


I think the important thing here is we don't go to pieces over Vic Morrow.

At least he no longer had to suffer with his dandruff problem

/they found his Head & Shoulders at the scene of the accident


I thought it was pretty tasteless of Annie to start singing about it:  "Two Morrows! Two Morrows!"
 
2020-05-28 2:10:08 AM  

Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.


747s are cheap enough for someone to bring one to Burning Man, so I'm guessing an old decommissioned one doesn't cost that much. Especially compared to the cost of a contract from ILM.
 
2020-05-28 2:32:57 AM  

Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.


There's probably 50 of them just in the boneyard near Pinal County Airfield here.  You could just take one, paint it to look like it's in service, and blow it up on site there.
 
stk
2020-05-28 3:10:00 AM  

HugeMistake: Fun trivia: the railway sabotage / train crash scene in Lawrence of Arabia was done by crashing an actual train. Good thing they didn't need a second take.

In their defense, CGI was not an option.


Fark user imageView Full Size
Same with Buster Keatons The General. The crash was filmed not too far from where I live, which is fun.
 
2020-05-28 3:29:38 AM  

The Third Man: Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.

There's probably 50 of them just in the boneyard near Pinal County Airfield here.  You could just take one, paint it to look like it's in service, and blow it up on site there.


Even the A380's are being parked and ready for the sequel.
 
2020-05-28 3:56:47 AM  
Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?
 
2020-05-28 4:11:38 AM  

stk: HugeMistake: Fun trivia: the railway sabotage / train crash scene in Lawrence of Arabia was done by crashing an actual train. Good thing they didn't need a second take.

In their defense, CGI was not an option.

[Fark user image 332x250] [View Full Size image _x_]Same with Buster Keatons The General. The crash was filmed not too far from where I live, which is fun.


Buster Keaton was nuts... in a good way.
 
stk
2020-05-28 5:39:38 AM  

lolmao500: stk: HugeMistake: Fun trivia: the railway sabotage / train crash scene in Lawrence of Arabia was done by crashing an actual train. Good thing they didn't need a second take.

In their defense, CGI was not an option.

[Fark user image 332x250] [View Full Size image _x_]Same with Buster Keatons The General. The crash was filmed not too far from where I live, which is fun.

Buster Keaton was nuts... in a good way.


By all accounts he should have died, like, 20 times filming stunts but he always bounced back.
 
2020-05-28 6:50:04 AM  
So I'm guessing it wasn't actually flying, they just rammed it into the hanger.
 
2020-05-28 9:12:35 AM  
A retired 747 (with the equipment stripped out of it) only costs about $1 million. It probably cost almost as much to make the building they crashed it into.
 
2020-05-28 10:01:38 AM  

bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?


Enjoy your six hour Ingmar Bergman marathon.
 
2020-05-28 10:10:15 AM  

Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.


Bare 747 frames start at around $55,000

5 mins of VFX can start around $600,000

https://www.flexport.com/blog/decommi​s​sioned-planes-salvage-value/

https://getwrightonit.com/animation-p​r​ice-guide/
 
2020-05-28 10:45:46 AM  

mindset zero: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Bare 747 frames start at around $55,000

5 mins of VFX can start around $600,000

https://www.flexport.com/blog/decommis​sioned-planes-salvage-value/

https://getwrightonit.com/animation-pr​ice-guide/


And how much does it cost in permits, insurance, labor and time to safely explode said 747?
 
2020-05-28 10:51:03 AM  

SuperChuck: And how much does it cost in permits, insurance, labor and time to safely explode said 747?


Probably way less than you think. Pyro is a very mature art, unlike CGI, with well established best practices.

In any case, I predict we'll see another movie that has a very simple plot that people think is more complex than it is because the script contains a gimmick and also Nolan doesn't view the job of a director as being to "communicate an idea clearly in film," but instead "to obfuscate through a combination of misdirection and incompetence/laziness about how things are shot".

The man can't shoot a big action sequence to save his life. The Batman stuff is a great example.
 
2020-05-28 11:03:06 AM  
Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.


Older 747-400s are still in very high demand for freight, to the point that conversions are offered to turn the passenger variants into cargo planes, and Boeing sells the updated 747-8 freighter variant to companies, like UPS, that can afford a new aircraft. And while most airlines have switched to twin engine planes thanks to regulation and technology changes, companies such as Lufthansa, Korean Air, and Air China have each ordered a few of the passenger version of the updated 747-8.
 
2020-05-28 1:33:27 PM  

mindset zero: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Bare 747 frames start at around $55,000

5 mins of VFX can start around $600,000

https://www.flexport.com/blog/decommis​sioned-planes-salvage-value/

https://getwrightonit.com/animation-pr​ice-guide/


There are so many variables when it comes to VFX shots that a simplified price guide such as that one is simply unreliable.
 
2020-05-28 3:36:31 PM  

Heliodorus: Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.


Older 747-400s are still in very high demand for freight, to the point that conversions are offered to turn the passenger variants into cargo planes, and Boeing sells the updated 747-8 freighter variant to companies, like UPS, that can afford a new aircraft. And while most airlines have switched to twin engine planes thanks to regulation and technology changes, companies such as Lufthansa, Korean Air, and Air China have each ordered a few of the passenger version of the updated 747-8.


Yeah that's incorrect. There haven't been any full passenger frames converted to freighters in many years. The last 2, done several years ago, were Asiana 744M combis, which were built with the main deck cargo door from day 1 and were minimal change conversions.

All passenger 748s have already been delivered to customers and Vought (Triumph) has shut down and disassembled the fuselage production line. It's days are over.
 
2020-05-28 3:46:11 PM  

FLMountainMan: bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?

Enjoy your six hour Ingmar Bergman marathon.


Nah, I enjoy a good action movie but then I'd rather watch a Zach Snyder movie, or even a Michael Bay movie for that matter, rather than a Nolan one. As they have actual cinematographic talent, which Nolan has very little of.
 
2020-05-28 3:51:07 PM  

bikkurikun: FLMountainMan: bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?

Enjoy your six hour Ingmar Bergman marathon.

Nah, I enjoy a good action movie but then I'd rather watch a Zach Snyder movie, or even a Michael Bay movie for that matter, rather than a Nolan one. As they have actual cinematographic talent, which Nolan has very little of.


If you're going to troll well, you can't just jump to Snyder and Bay on the second post.  Too on the nose.
 
2020-05-28 3:58:29 PM  

FLMountainMan: If you're going to troll well, you can't just jump to Snyder and Bay on the second post. Too on the nose.


I dunno, there's a legitimate point to Snyder. The stories and scripts are garbage, but he has an unmistakable visual style. I mean, so does Bay, but Snyder's films are at least legible (excepting some awful color grading, which is more of a post-production choice than a directorial choice).

Nolan tends to make an absolute mess of basic action beats, visually. We're talking film-school 101 flubs like violating the 180º rule, which sure, rules are meant to be broken, but the result is that the film is less clear, the action less easy to follow, the stakes feel less real.

Nolan isn't terrible, but he's incredibly overrated. He's the new Tarantino for people who like trash movies but want to pretend at having better taste than the average filmgoer. Much like Tarantino, he ends up falling back on playing with time a lot, because that's an easy way to conceal the true simplicity of the plot. A little sleight of hand, as it were.

(I did legitimately like Memento and the Prestige)
 
2020-05-28 4:08:15 PM  

bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?


Yes, the answer is yes.
 
2020-05-28 4:34:38 PM  

t3knomanser: FLMountainMan: If you're going to troll well, you can't just jump to Snyder and Bay on the second post. Too on the nose.

I dunno, there's a legitimate point to Snyder. The stories and scripts are garbage, but he has an unmistakable visual style. I mean, so does Bay, but Snyder's films are at least legible (excepting some awful color grading, which is more of a post-production choice than a directorial choice).

Nolan tends to make an absolute mess of basic action beats, visually. We're talking film-school 101 flubs like violating the 180º rule, which sure, rules are meant to be broken, but the result is that the film is less clear, the action less easy to follow, the stakes feel less real.

Nolan isn't terrible, but he's incredibly overrated. He's the new Tarantino for people who like trash movies but want to pretend at having better taste than the average filmgoer. Much like Tarantino, he ends up falling back on playing with time a lot, because that's an easy way to conceal the true simplicity of the plot. A little sleight of hand, as it were.

(I did legitimately like Memento and the Prestige)


Exactly.
Michael Bay makes movies for 15 year old boys, but there is no denying he's technically very capable in certain aspects of film making, and as someone who likes cinema I can enjoy that even though the rest of the movie is crap. There are not many directors who can do what he does.

With Snyder I'd even go as far as to say that his DC Movies like Batman vs Superman are far superior over any Marvel Movie. I don't give a rat's ass what  the rotten tomato rankings are, they are meaningless.

As for Nolan, of course I was exaggerating a bit for the fun of it, but he is indeed just so overhyped and overrated. Makes shiatty movies, but he's so mysterious and deep!
 
2020-05-28 4:43:07 PM  

bikkurikun: With Snyder I'd even go as far as to say that his DC Movies like Batman vs Superman are far superior over any Marvel Movie.


I don't know that I'd go that far, but the DCEU under Snyder came from a place of creative vision, while the MCU feels much more like an assembly line. I don't think the DCEU has a good creative vision, mind you, but at least they were trying to do something. MCU films found their pattern and have been refining that formula, swapping between by-the-numbers solo adventures and mind-numbing fan-service spectacles with no stakes for the Avengers bits. When they've got a line that's maybe kinda failing, like Thor, or something that they don't have as much faith in (Guardians), they'll open up a bit, but you'll note that GotG2 basically dropped right back into the MCU formula once they knew the concept sold.

(I'm so tired of the MCU, so so tired. Stopped after Ragnarok, probably pop in for Love and Thunder, because Waititi is actually good)
 
2020-05-28 4:50:21 PM  

bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?


You forgot the power of love saves everyone.
 
2020-05-28 4:54:35 PM  

bikkurikun: As for Nolan, of course I was exaggerating a bit for the fun of it, but he is indeed just so overhyped and overrated. Makes shiatty movies, but he's so mysterious and deep!


Overall, I've liked Christopher Nolan's movies, except the last one. Dunkirk was terrible.
It felt like he just woke up and said "Hey, let's make a war movie, but without any character development or emotional investment for the audience."
 
2020-05-28 4:55:20 PM  

hotmoonsauce: You forgot the power of love saves everyone.


Oh man, that love monologue in Interstellar is really something, isn't it? I don't fault Hathaway for not carrying that scene, because nobody could do dialogue like that and make it sound believable. Ugh.
 
2020-05-28 5:13:35 PM  

t3knomanser: Much like Tarantino, he ends up falling back on playing with time a lot, because that's an easy way to conceal the true simplicity of the plot


I don't think that's why Tarantino screws around with time. In Jackie Brown it seemed like he was just doing it for the hell of it but before that in Reservoir Dogs it was to control when an audience learns important plot points to make it more suspenseful  and in Pulp Fiction a lot of it was because the climax of the story (Jules' redemption) wasn't the last scene chronologically.
 
2020-05-28 5:20:26 PM  

Mugato: but before that in Reservoir Dogs it was to control when an audience learns important plot points to make it more suspenseful


But that's sorta my point. Memento is another great example of this, and I like Memento. But the suspense is entirely contrived because of the timeline shenanigans. Without it, there'd be no suspense. In Jackie Brown, it's done so that we can see the same chain of events play out from multiple perspectives, because it helps us understand the character actions which follow. And yes, in Pulp Fiction, it was to detach narrative structure from temporal structure, which clearly worked. But then fast forward to Hateful Eight, where the flashback is used to tell us shiat we already had figured out (and comes way too late in the film), and it's notable that's about where the narrative tension utterly falls apart too, kicking off the worst 3rd act in a Tarantino film, by far.
 
2020-05-28 5:27:14 PM  

t3knomanser: But that's sorta my point. Memento is another great example of this, and I like Memento. But the suspense is entirely contrived because of the timeline shenanigans. Without it, there'd be no suspense


Well I think Reservoir Dogs would have been good anyway but it was better that we find out who the cop is later and dive right into the action at the beginning.

I don't remember a whole lot about Hateful Eight except he shot it in 70mm and insisted they showed it that way even though most of it takes place in one room.
 
2020-05-28 5:35:13 PM  

t3knomanser: Without it, there'd be no suspense.


Why does that matter?
 
2020-05-28 5:47:52 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Why does that matter?


As a general rule, stories should contain some degree of suspense, and it's usually preferable for that suspense to arise from the characters and plot, rather than from the narrative structure.
 
2020-05-28 5:49:44 PM  

hotmoonsauce: bikkurikun: Is this going to be another overrated Nolan gimmicky crapfest of poor character development, hamfisted dialogues and  unnecessary convoluted, pseudo-intellectual, but in the end razor-thin and overly sentimental plots?

You forgot the power of love saves everyone.


Yeah, that's what I meant with sentimental, maybe not the right wording as he doesn't actually do emotion well. I actually enjoyed somewhat parts of interstellar, because it seemed like a Sci-Fi movie that cared at least a bit about the Sci, and then he ends he ruins everything with that kind of nonsense. Haven't been that frustrated with a sci-fi movie since the computer virus shenanigans in Independence Day.
 
2020-05-28 6:04:42 PM  

t3knomanser: and it's usually preferable for that suspense to arise from the characters and plot, rather than from the narrative structure.


I'd argue they all work hand in hand in successful storytelling.  In a more straight-forward narrative, the structure definitely takes a back seat, but it's a perfectly fine device to use in building suspense.
 
2020-05-28 6:35:40 PM  

Arkanaut: Mugato: I kind of doubt it was cheaper than CG.

Cheaper than good CG.

// 747s are mostly retired and sitting in boneyards these days.


If you remove the engines and copper wiring beforehand, they can be sold for salvage and scrap at a fair rate. Copper isn't what is used to be, but it's not negligible. Once you do the scene, you can probably make a fair bit of coin by sending in all the aluminum for recycling, too.
 
2020-05-28 10:09:54 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: In a more straight-forward narrative, the structure definitely takes a back seat, but it's a perfectly fine device to use in building suspense.


I mean, it's a device that can work, but it rarely does. Usually, its purpose is to take a straightforward narrative and conceal how straightforward it is- Nolan especially does this (Inception is a simple heist movie, dressed up with special effects and a time gimmick, and Interstellar's time gimmick exists to conceal that there isn't actually a plot at all).

Structure should service the story, not define it.
 
2020-05-28 10:51:21 PM  

Heliodorus: Cheaper than good CG


The problem with good CG is that the costs are not reliably predictable.
The cost of practical effects are well known.
 
2020-05-28 11:39:21 PM  
That wasn't so hard...

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