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(ESPN)   Do you believe in miracles? The numbers say you should   (espn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Soviet Union, Olympic Games, Miracle on Ice, Ice hockey, Ice hockey at the 1980 Winter Olympics, Russia, total shot attempts, United States  
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556 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 May 2020 at 4:00 PM (9 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



12 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-05-22 4:22:16 PM  
If you haven't watched the dramatization of that with Kurt Russell, you should.  Really good movie.  He nails the Herb Brooks Minnesota accent.  And I cried at the end.
 
2020-05-22 4:42:47 PM  
Not only was it highly improbable that they could win fair and square, it was almost certain that the State Department was screaming for that win by any means necessary.

Cold War policy was more or less "tit for tat".  If you replied in kind to any enemy action, it was impossible for them to gain by aggressive actions.  There was widespread belief that there were plenty of shenanigans during the gold medal basketball game in Munich, 1972 (the USSR won).  The ideal response would be to engineer a US victory in ice hockey.

Work out what the odds of the US winning "fair and square".  And then figure out what the odds were by them cheating (still not all that great) times the odds of the US cheating at Lake Placid.  The ratio is more or less the odds the US got that medal by cheating.  I really doubt that number is less than 99.9%

The only real problem here is that I have *absolutely* *no* idea how they could have gotten away with the thing.  You couldn't just send an NHL all-star team (assuming you could keep Canada from doing same), they'd be obviously too old.  You might get away with a goalie (and the goalie's performance was key), but that'd hardly be enough for the gold.  I've always imagined some sort of magnetic field slowing down the puck in one direction (then switching the polarity if they swap goals in halftime or something), but I really don't know enough about hockey to know what would work.

I've never heard a peep from Russian posts saying "when the USA cheated in Lake Placid" (something Pravda might have run with or without evidence).  You'd think they would at least know how it was done (you certainly wouldn't have heard it in Reagan's America, but on the modern internet?) and it would be fairly common knowledge, but no.  Never heard a whisper, and I've been convinced of the odds for a long time.  So maybe it was a miracle and God was the one behind the fix.  Can't say I'd expect divine help for someone derelict in their duty to maintain US/USSR stasis, but that is the dominant hypothesis that must be defeated.

The other thing is why they didn't manage to get the win in Montreal?  First, Montreal isn't all that America friendly, and second perhaps they needed to build the cheat into the ice rink or otherwise have the control only available by a "home field advantage".  More likely, they *did* manage to cheat, but it was hardly enough to overcome the massive disadvantage the Americans had.  It probably took a miracle *with* reasonably undetectable cheating.

Anyway, the point is that by the standards of the Cold War, America *had* to cheat to win that medal.  If the State Department wasn't at least making a full effort to do so, they were derelict in their duty to maintain detante and prevent the USSR from getting the upper hand.  So the odds of the USA cheating should be fairly high (even if the odds of winning *with* cheating don't seem all that hot).
 
2020-05-22 4:49:04 PM  
Where you from, you sexy thing, you?
 
2020-05-22 5:33:45 PM  
Every year after the World Series, after the Superb Owl, n-> : "Well , the best team lost..."
 
2020-05-22 5:43:35 PM  
1972 Olympics Basketball Final USA USSR
1972 Olympics Basketball Final USA USSR
Youtube 1dyoTkX7Ypc
 
2020-05-22 6:02:53 PM  
When I get to have a threesome with Sarah Michelle Gellar and Winona Ryder I'll let you know that I believe in miracles
 
2020-05-22 6:26:48 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Not only was it highly improbable that they could win fair and square, it was almost certain that the State Department was screaming for that win by any means necessary.

Cold War policy was more or less "tit for tat".  If you replied in kind to any enemy action, it was impossible for them to gain by aggressive actions.  There was widespread belief that there were plenty of shenanigans during the gold medal basketball game in Munich, 1972 (the USSR won).  The ideal response would be to engineer a US victory in ice hockey.

Work out what the odds of the US winning "fair and square".  And then figure out what the odds were by them cheating (still not all that great) times the odds of the US cheating at Lake Placid.  The ratio is more or less the odds the US got that medal by cheating.  I really doubt that number is less than 99.9%

The only real problem here is that I have *absolutely* *no* idea how they could have gotten away with the thing.  You couldn't just send an NHL all-star team (assuming you could keep Canada from doing same), they'd be obviously too old.  You might get away with a goalie (and the goalie's performance was key), but that'd hardly be enough for the gold.  I've always imagined some sort of magnetic field slowing down the puck in one direction (then switching the polarity if they swap goals in halftime or something), but I really don't know enough about hockey to know what would work.

I've never heard a peep from Russian posts saying "when the USA cheated in Lake Placid" (something Pravda might have run with or without evidence).  You'd think they would at least know how it was done (you certainly wouldn't have heard it in Reagan's America, but on the modern internet?) and it would be fairly common knowledge, but no.  Never heard a whisper, and I've been convinced of the odds for a long time.  So maybe it was a miracle and God was the one behind the fix.  Can't say I'd expect divine help for someone derelict in their duty to maintain US/USSR stasis, but that is the dominant hypothesis that must be defeated.

The other thing is why they didn't manage to get the win in Montreal?  First, Montreal isn't all that America friendly, and second perhaps they needed to build the cheat into the ice rink or otherwise have the control only available by a "home field advantage".  More likely, they *did* manage to cheat, but it was hardly enough to overcome the massive disadvantage the Americans had.  It probably took a miracle *with* reasonably undetectable cheating.

Anyway, the point is that by the standards of the Cold War, America *had* to cheat to win that medal.  If the State Department wasn't at least making a full effort to do so, they were derelict in their duty to maintain detante and prevent the USSR from getting the upper hand.  So the odds of the USA cheating should be fairly high (even if the odds of winning *with* cheating don't seem all that hot).


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2020-05-22 6:32:09 PM  
yet_another_wumpus:

The other thing is why they didn't manage to get the win in Montreal?  First, Montreal isn't all that America friendly, and second perhaps they needed to build the cheat into the ice rink or otherwise have the control only available by a "home field advantage".  More likely, they *did* manage to cheat, but it was hardly enough to overcome the massive disadvantage the Americans had.  It probably took a miracle *with* reasonably undetectable cheating.

I can tell you exactly why they didn't get the win in Montreal: the 1976 Winter Olympics were played in Innsbruck.

/they did finish 5th, which was still pretty respectable
 
2020-05-22 9:31:30 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Not only was it highly improbable that they could win fair and square, it was almost certain that the State Department was screaming for that win by any means necessary.

Cold War policy was more or less "tit for tat".  If you replied in kind to any enemy action, it was impossible for them to gain by aggressive actions.  There was widespread belief that there were plenty of shenanigans during the gold medal basketball game in Munich, 1972 (the USSR won).  The ideal response would be to engineer a US victory in ice hockey.

Work out what the odds of the US winning "fair and square".  And then figure out what the odds were by them cheating (still not all that great) times the odds of the US cheating at Lake Placid.  The ratio is more or less the odds the US got that medal by cheating.  I really doubt that number is less than 99.9%

The only real problem here is that I have *absolutely* *no* idea how they could have gotten away with the thing.  You couldn't just send an NHL all-star team (assuming you could keep Canada from doing same), they'd be obviously too old.  You might get away with a goalie (and the goalie's performance was key), but that'd hardly be enough for the gold.  I've always imagined some sort of magnetic field slowing down the puck in one direction (then switching the polarity if they swap goals in halftime or something), but I really don't know enough about hockey to know what would work.

I've never heard a peep from Russian posts saying "when the USA cheated in Lake Placid" (something Pravda might have run with or without evidence).  You'd think they would at least know how it was done (you certainly wouldn't have heard it in Reagan's America, but on the modern internet?) and it would be fairly common knowledge, but no.  Never heard a whisper, and I've been convinced of the odds for a long time.  So maybe it was a miracle and God was the one behind the fix.  Can't say I'd expect divine help for someone derelict in their duty to maintain US/USSR stasis, but that is the dominant hypothesis that must be defeated.

The other thing is why they didn't manage to get the win in Montreal?  First, Montreal isn't all that America friendly, and second perhaps they needed to build the cheat into the ice rink or otherwise have the control only available by a "home field advantage".  More likely, they *did* manage to cheat, but it was hardly enough to overcome the massive disadvantage the Americans had.  It probably took a miracle *with* reasonably undetectable cheating.

Anyway, the point is that by the standards of the Cold War, America *had* to cheat to win that medal.  If the State Department wasn't at least making a full effort to do so, they were derelict in their duty to maintain detante and prevent the USSR from getting the upper hand.  So the odds of the USA cheating should be fairly high (even if the odds of winning *with* cheating don't seem all that hot).


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-22 10:35:07 PM  

FrancoFile: If you haven't watched the dramatization of that with Kurt Russell, you should.  Really good movie.  He nails the Herb Brooks Minnesota accent.  And I cried at the end.


Really good, I've watched it at least 3 times in full.  I like the way they took a few seconds to show the USSR players and coach, looking frightened more than sad.  Always made me think "wonder what will happen to those poor guys get home?"

Then, I must have overlooked it when it came out, but there's a 30 for 30 called Of Miracles and Men.  Looks at things from the perspective of the Soviet players; I thought it was great.  Really makes you feel for the poor bastards.  Win or lose, our guys had a much better life to look forward to after the game.
 
2020-05-23 10:26:50 AM  
There was/is no doubt the Soviets were the superior hockey club, but Brooks picked and prepared that team to specifically beat them. Sure the Soviets got lots of shots - they were better skaters and puck handlers - but the US team was coached to keep them from moving the puck East and west deep in their zone, to allow shots Craig could see and handle, and the US teams fitness was great so they were able to keep it up for the entire game. They also needed some luck, and getting Tikonov to bench Tretiak was a big one.

A bunch of us watched the game on the tape delay, we all decided not to listen to the news to get the final results before we watched it. Most of us had our cowboy hats on (it was a big thing at the time), and it was an incredible experience. The last 10 minutes after Eruzioni scored were the longest and most agonizing 10 minutes of my life.
 
2020-05-23 6:09:07 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Not only was it highly improbable that they could win fair and square, it was almost certain that the State Department was screaming for that win by any means necessary.

Cold War policy was more or less "tit for tat".  If you replied in kind to any enemy action, it was impossible for them to gain by aggressive actions.  There was widespread belief that there were plenty of shenanigans during the gold medal basketball game in Munich, 1972 (the USSR won).  The ideal response would be to engineer a US victory in ice hockey.

Work out what the odds of the US winning "fair and square".  And then figure out what the odds were by them cheating (still not all that great) times the odds of the US cheating at Lake Placid.  The ratio is more or less the odds the US got that medal by cheating.  I really doubt that number is less than 99.9%

The only real problem here is that I have *absolutely* *no* idea how they could have gotten away with the thing.  You couldn't just send an NHL all-star team (assuming you could keep Canada from doing same), they'd be obviously too old.  You might get away with a goalie (and the goalie's performance was key), but that'd hardly be enough for the gold.  I've always imagined some sort of magnetic field slowing down the puck in one direction (then switching the polarity if they swap goals in halftime or something), but I really don't know enough about hockey to know what would work.

I've never heard a peep from Russian posts saying "when the USA cheated in Lake Placid" (something Pravda might have run with or without evidence).  You'd think they would at least know how it was done (you certainly wouldn't have heard it in Reagan's America, but on the modern internet?) and it would be fairly common knowledge, but no.  Never heard a whisper, and I've been convinced of the odds for a long time.  So maybe it was a miracle and God was the one behind the fix.  Can't say I'd expect divine help for someone derelict in their duty to maintain US/USSR sta ...


How did they do it?

Silly Rabbit - it was easy.  They used a non-regulation and unusual weight of hockey puck, which the U.S. team had practiced with for months. Not easily detectable but just enough to throw the Russian's shots and passes off.
 
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