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(MEL Magazine)   "This is the enduring spirit of a superpower that can't get its sh*t together and convert to the metric system, build high-speed rail or guarantee universal health care"   (melmagazine.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Profanity, Beer pong, Metric system, good-faith effort, President Trump, best practices, enduring spirit of a superpower, symbolic start of summer  
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3296 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 May 2020 at 11:33 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-22 1:45:23 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: It's still a $1000 fine for violating social distancing around here. I'm kinda surprised America didn't see this as a chance to make some bank.


They should send decoy ice cream trucks into neighborhoods.  When the crowds gather they throw open the window and BAM, it's the police!  They could call it Operation: Entrap-mint.
 
2020-05-22 1:46:49 PM  

RasIanI: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

And it funny, because all the calculations for those missions out of NASA were in metric.


Actually.....
 
2020-05-22 1:48:51 PM  

Magruda: RasIanI: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

And it funny, because all the calculations for those missions out of NASA were in metric.

Actually.....


It funny because NASA not using metric is what led to the Mars rover crash.
 
2020-05-22 1:58:27 PM  

Magruda: Magruda: RasIanI: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

And it funny, because all the calculations for those missions out of NASA were in metric.

Actually.....

It funny because NASA not using metric is what led to the Mars rover crash.


Wasn't it in fact a bad conversion from Imperial to metric that cratered it? I cannot recall exactly...
 
2020-05-22 2:02:11 PM  

NetOwl: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.


There's no real reason to use the metric system, and in some ways, it's worse.  Feet are better than meters, and Fahrenheit is better than Celsius for the weather.  And this may come as a surprise to Europe, but we do use metric for science, anyway.

Calling people apes (which is technically right, but I doubt your intent was to technically right, or else you would have called everyone apes) just because they don't want to have to re-calibrate their intuition for every measurement they make in everyday life is a bit much.

Something as fundamental to the way we think as our measurement system is not easy to change once you're an adult.  It requires far more adjustment than metric system proponents will admit, and there's no reason to force that on millions of people who are getting along just fine already.


Engineers use Imperial. It's horrifying.
 
2020-05-22 2:04:32 PM  

foo monkey: I've been assured by our public education system that the metric system is for Europeans and homos.


But you repeat yourself! Heyo!
 
2020-05-22 2:07:14 PM  

Mad_Radhu: NetOwl: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.


There's no real reason to use the metric system, and in some ways, it's worse.  Feet are better than meters, and Fahrenheit is better than Celsius for the weather.  And this may come as a surprise to Europe, but we do use metric for science, anyway.

Calling people apes (which is technically right, but I doubt your intent was to technically right, or else you would have called everyone apes) just because they don't want to have to re-calibrate their intuition for every measurement they make in everyday life is a bit much.

Something as fundamental to the way we think as our measurement system is not easy to change once you're an adult.  It requires far more adjustment than metric system proponents will admit, and there's no reason to force that on millions of people who are getting along just fine already.

I kind of hate measuring in feet due to having to work with fractions, though. Figuring out half of 15 3/8" is not nearly as easy to do in your head as half of 39 cm. Replace all of the yardsticks with meter sticks and everything is much easier to deal with.


Even easier if you spell it 'metre' - ie correctly.
 
2020-05-22 2:08:00 PM  

CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.


Strangely enough the Nazis the US kept from paying for their crimes that built those rockets used the metric system.
 
2020-05-22 2:10:47 PM  

FlippityFlap: Magruda: Magruda: RasIanI: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

And it funny, because all the calculations for those missions out of NASA were in metric.

Actually.....

It funny because NASA not using metric is what led to the Mars rover crash.

Wasn't it in fact a bad conversion from Imperial to metric that cratered it? I cannot recall exactly...


Control software supplied by Lockheed was programmed to output in non-SI units (in violation of the production contract); the craft was programmed for inputs in SI units.

/naturally, bad things happened
//imperial units suck
///especially the BTU/lbm
 
2020-05-22 2:12:13 PM  

FlippityFlap: Magruda: Magruda: RasIanI: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

And it funny, because all the calculations for those missions out of NASA were in metric.

Actually.....

It funny because NASA not using metric is what led to the Mars rover crash.

Wasn't it in fact a bad conversion from Imperial to metric that cratered it? I cannot recall exactly...


Both scenarios are a failure to convert. so Yes.
 
2020-05-22 2:18:45 PM  
FlippityFlap:Well, I guess you don't science much then. I've had to re-learn just about every facet of my career in IT, many times over in the last 30 years. It can be done, and in fact it's probably good for your brain.

Not much anymore, but I do have a STEM degree. Learning the necessary metric units was just not a big deal. I understand metric just fine, but I just don't see why it is demonstrably better for the vast majority of everyday applications. You also mention having to re-learn everything over the last 30 years. Even presuming that's true, why is it better to make an entire country re-learn everything instead of just the people who actually need it? For most day to day applications, metric is at best a lateral move. Would it be better if America just always had the metric system? Maybe. But once a system is in place you need a really compelling reason to tear it down and replace it, and there just really isn't one. I could spend 30 hours driving to my brother's house 2000 miles away and never come within 500 miles of a country that uses metric. Why in the world does it matter that I'm measuring my distance in miles or my gas in gallons, or that all the relevant signs along the way express information in these terms that everyone reading them completely understands.
 
2020-05-22 2:24:44 PM  

fo_sho!: Not being metric hurts the US when competing globally in industry.
I work in product r&d and new product development. We work in metric and english measurements as needed, but metric is massively preferred. We ran into a major issue very recently where we are trying to design and fast track production for a medical product which has seen Covid 19 massively increase its demand.
We are trying to produce it with 2 contract manufacturers, one in Asia and one in the US. They use different systems so we have to develop 2 almost identical designs which are minutely different due to the available tooling at each site. Conpletely different drawing packages now have to be generated and revved through production. This is a clusterfark and adds a ton of risk.
Imagine if you are an international company looking at using a CM in each country. One uses the same system as the rest of the world, and the other uses it's own base 12 system. It's never going to be the final driver (cost usually is) but it definitely does not help.


I used to work for an American company in the South of England. They were being charged £70 a pair for brass pliers. The pliers were made in America. I got an American molding supplies company to send me their catalogue. Lo and behold, a dozen pairs of brass pliers could be had for $150 plus shipping (another $100). So, a much cheaper alternative. You should have heard the number of excuses I got for not buying them directly from the states, including "We haven't got an account to pay for it in the USA." and "But all their stuff isn't metric.". I pointed out that our headquarters were in America and must have an account somewhere in the same country and asked what the difference between a metric and imperial pair of pliers were.....
 
2020-05-22 2:25:10 PM  

BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.


Well. We do sell drugs by the gram.

Cycling has largely moved to metric.  All the bolts are metric Allen in decent bikes.  Mountain bike wheels are the last remnant of using inches.  Everything else,crank lengths, hub spacing, disk brake rotors sizing is in mm.
 
2020-05-22 2:40:38 PM  

Subtonic: Another navel-gazing defeatist puff piece that adds no insight or possible solutions. But hey, it got to say 'F*ck it" 50 times so that's pretty cool.


No, the insight this piece adds is that we are not exceptional.  We aren't even mediocre.  The sooner we face that stark reality, the sooner things improve.

But it has to start with stopping this practice of considering ourselves awesome.
 
2020-05-22 2:41:39 PM  
The metric system is symbolic more than anything, because the last real effort was tied in the era we're still fighting. The peak of the American Century.

For symbolism's sake, the peak was December 14, 1972.  The day Apollo 17 left the Moon. Within a few years of that... Watergate, First Oil Shock, End of Bretton Woods, Fall of Saigon, Europe had the Concorde and we didn't... on and on.

This was also the era of the US's last real effort to join the world in daily metric system use.  And in the light of that era, fighting change became a totemic "damn it, this is one thing we can hold on to" for wounded American pride.  And so it has remained.
 
2020-05-22 2:42:50 PM  

NetOwl: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.


There's no real reason to use the metric system, and in some ways, it's worse.  Feet are better than meters, and Fahrenheit is better than Celsius for the weather.  And this may come as a surprise to Europe, but we do use metric for science, anyway.

Calling people apes (which is technically right, but I doubt your intent was to technically right, or else you would have called everyone apes) just because they don't want to have to re-calibrate their intuition for every measurement they make in everyday life is a bit much.

Something as fundamental to the way we think as our measurement system is not easy to change once you're an adult.  It requires far more adjustment than metric system proponents will admit, and there's no reason to force that on millions of people who are getting along just fine already.


Ok boomer.
 
2020-05-22 2:42:55 PM  

Geotpf: twistedsteel5252: edmo: There will never be another "greatest generation." They were it.

They could be Assholes too. They once sent a boatload of Jewish refugees back to nazi Germany

Also remember their general attitude towards African Americans.


The greatest generation: "hey we gave "I love Lucy's" husband a pass. He was rich after all. That and "the honeymooners" was wholesome entertainment where we joked about beating our wives yuk yuk yuk".
 
2020-05-22 2:45:39 PM  

FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....


I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.
 
2020-05-22 2:52:08 PM  

TaDu: When I was younger, I thought that the foolish choices made by characters in monster movies was just bad writing in order to advance the plot.  The last few years has revealed it to be the terrifying truth of human nature.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-22 2:53:34 PM  

rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.


That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.
 
2020-05-22 2:54:54 PM  

harleyquinnical: Sophont: Jack Sabbath: Spot on.  We Americans are a lazy entitled breed. Some can rise above that; most don't.

More could rise above if the ones who refused to would stop stomping on them.

Too many bright, capable people are foiled again and again by a Lumbergh or a Karen whom can't stand that you might know more, might work harder, or are just different than they are, and they demand respect they haven't earned.

I never thought "foolish evil" would ever be a character alignment, but given how often people use WIZ as a dump stat, I am starting to understand why it honeslty should be, bravery so often walking a fine line with foolishness.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-22 2:57:10 PM  

New Farkin User Name: NetOwl: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.


There's no real reason to use the metric system, and in some ways, it's worse.  Feet are better than meters, and Fahrenheit is better than Celsius for the weather.  And this may come as a surprise to Europe, but we do use metric for science, anyway.

Calling people apes (which is technically right, but I doubt your intent was to technically right, or else you would have called everyone apes) just because they don't want to have to re-calibrate their intuition for every measurement they make in everyday life is a bit much.

Something as fundamental to the way we think as our measurement system is not easy to change once you're an adult.  It requires far more adjustment than metric system proponents will admit, and there's no reason to force that on millions of people who are getting along just fine already.

Engineers use Imperial. It's horrifying.


Moving a decimal place and divisible by 10 is sooooo much more intuitive than 1/64.
 
2020-05-22 2:58:07 PM  
Interestingly or not, all the hospital measurements are in metric in the US.  I order fluids by the mL or Liter, or measure my cubic centimeter.

Mesh or wounds are measured in centimter.  BMI is calculated in metric. I really don't understand why we don't switch over

/my fist is 8cm, works great as a ruler
 
2020-05-22 2:58:26 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.


Yes.  It only works with pure water.  But if you weigh the water and make marks on the glass you are using, you have yourself a measuring cup.

Checkers, Liberia.
 
2020-05-22 3:00:37 PM  

Ranolin: Interestingly or not, all the hospital measurements are in metric in the US.  I order fluids by the mL or Liter, or measure my cubic centimeter.

Mesh or wounds are measured in centimter.  BMI is calculated in metric. I really don't understand why we don't switch over

/my fist is 8cm, works great as a ruler


Our EMR still uses feet and inches for height, but kills for weight, since all the drug calculations are for kilos.  Everybody is pretty good at converting kilos to lbs.  Just double the number and add a tenth of that more.
 
2020-05-22 3:17:24 PM  

rga184: shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.

Yes.  It only works with pure water.  But if you weigh the water and make marks on the glass you are using, you have yourself a measuring cup.

Checkers, Liberia.


You could also google what a cup of water weighs and do the same thing. And let's be honest with ourselves. Even if Americans learned metric, most everybody would still have to google unit conversions. This is a country where people can't figure out a 20% tip no matter how many times I scream, "just divide the total by five!" into the void.
 
2020-05-22 3:18:57 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.


Yeah, that 3% difference between the weight of water and milk is really going to make all the difference.
 
2020-05-22 3:23:03 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.

Yes.  It only works with pure water.  But if you weigh the water and make marks on the glass you are using, you have yourself a measuring cup.

Checkers, Liberia.

You could also google what a cup of water weighs and do the same thing. And let's be honest with ourselves. Even if Americans learned metric, most everybody would still have to google unit conversions. This is a country where people can't figure out a 20% tip no matter how many times I scream, "just divide the total by five!" into the void.


Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.
 
2020-05-22 3:24:00 PM  

Excelsior: shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.

Yeah, that 3% difference between the weight of water and milk is really going to make all the difference.


What if it's 2 percent milk.  Then you have to cut down the volume by 33 percent!
 
2020-05-22 3:32:39 PM  

Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.


...that are all now bleached white due to the hard solar radiation that has been beating down on them for decades.

Atmosphere, it is good for more than just the breathing of a bunch of nearly hairless apes.
 
2020-05-22 3:37:20 PM  

Myrdinn: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

...that are all now bleached white due to the hard solar radiation that has been beating down on them for decades.

Atmosphere, it is good for more than just the breathing of a bunch of nearly hairless apes.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Sounds like someone didn't watch the documentary.
 
2020-05-22 3:39:53 PM  

rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.


And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.
 
2020-05-22 3:45:46 PM  

Excelsior: shut_it_down: rga184: FlippityFlap: Magruda: BigKaboom: I remember when the metric system was tried here in the U.S.of A. People biatched how hard it was. Too foreign for ' Murica! Apes is the right description.

I remember when that stubbornness caused us to crash a mars rover. They actually teach that in school instead of teaching the metric system.

We learned it in grade school in the 70's, before they decided to tank that. Let's see, spend 5 minutes converting units, or move a decimal point a few places and learn the prefix names? Hmmm.....

I need 300mL of water.  I don't have a measuring cup but I have a scale.

No problem.

Try that with idiot units.

That trick only works with pure water. Try that with anything else and your measurement will be off.

Yeah, that 3% difference between the weight of water and milk is really going to make all the difference.


What is this milk measuring scenario where you can get away with a fuzzy measurements but you can't take ten seconds to look up an actual conversion? Are you a contestant on Chopped?
 
2020-05-22 3:46:59 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.


The reason to change is largely engineering.  There are international standards for things like electronics, IEEE
Universal Serial Bus, my having a shared standard we can make things in different countries and then they could even work together!!

The International System of Units is one such standard that is kept up to date

People should not have to be convinced to move like its a pain for us to change, we are literally the pain for everyone else to have to use an old, outdated, crappy system so we can still get the same rods per hogshead.

Its Bullss.....loney
 
2020-05-22 3:56:12 PM  

Ranolin: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

The reason to change is largely engineering.  There are international standards for things like electronics, IEEE
Universal Serial Bus, my having a shared standard we can make things in different countries and then they could even work together!!

The International System of Units is one such standard that is kept up to date

People should not have to be convinced to move like its a pain for us to change, we are literally the pain for everyone else to have to use an old, outdated, crappy system so we can still get the same rods per hogshead.

Its Bullss.....loney


Lots of industries in America use metric for this reason, and they are absolutely free to do so. But it doesn't need to be a national, mandated change.
 
2020-05-22 4:16:13 PM  

shut_it_down: Ranolin: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

The reason to change is largely engineering.  There are international standards for things like electronics, IEEE
Universal Serial Bus, my having a shared standard we can make things in different countries and then they could even work together!!

The International System of Units is one such standard that is kept up to date

People should not have to be convinced to move like its a pain for us to change, we are literally the pain for everyone else to have to use an old, outdated, crappy system so we can still get the same rods per hogshead.

Its Bullss.....loney

Lots of industries in America use metric for this reason, and they are absolutely free to do so. But it doesn't need to be a national, mandated change.


And we shouldn't have to put warning labels on everything but we live with stupid people.
 
2020-05-22 4:20:37 PM  

Magruda: CthulhuCalling: Magruda: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Think of those flags like the remains of Roman roads or the Pyramids. Relics of a dead society that could not prevent it's own collapse thanks to hubris.

Ah another advocate piling on with the pointless navel gazing. It's a long weekend, I can see you're going to be jerking off both literally and metaphorically.

only if i keep reading your posts
[Fark user image image 200x286]


Yet here we are.

Today I learned that the space program was nothing but hubris.

Don't forget the Jergen's
 
2020-05-22 4:24:45 PM  

TheMarchHare: CthulhuCalling: The metric system is a strange hill for this edgy hipster to choose to die on, but fark it, I guess we'll go collect our half dozen flags on the Moon and go home.

Strangely enough the Nazis the US kept from paying for their crimes that built those rockets used the metric system.


Y'all couldn't go one discussion without bringing Nazis into it

Reset the clock, 3rd down.
 
2020-05-22 4:28:04 PM  

Magruda: And we shouldn't have to put warning labels on everything but we live with stupid people.


So who cares about how confused hundreds of millions of people will be. They're idiots anyway and the change would be marginally useful for engineers who are already using metric. And as a trade off, the average person will be able to imprecisely measure milk by using a scale instead of a measuring cup. How useful!
 
2020-05-22 5:40:44 PM  

Subtonic: Another navel-gazing defeatist puff piece that adds no insight or possible solutions. But hey, it got to say 'F*ck it" 50 times so that's pretty cool.


What would you suggest we do then? Voting isn't the silver bullet solution either, since we effectively don't have a 'majority rules' government anymore.  (if we ever did at all, tbh)
 
2020-05-22 6:10:59 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.


It is the simplest example of convenience.  If you're designing a product with 5000 parts that have to fit together, suddenly not having to deal with 1/64 of an inch a few thousand times starts to get easier.

The truth is, it's just more convenient in every way, and the only argument you have for it NOT being more convenient is that it's inconvenient for you to change.

That isn't a compelling argument not to change.
 
2020-05-22 6:16:30 PM  

Ranolin: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

The reason to change is largely engineering.  There are international standards for things like electronics, IEEE
Universal Serial Bus, my having a shared standard we can make things in different countries and then they could even work together!!

The International System of Units is one such standard that is kept up to date

People should not have to be convinced to move like its a pain for us to change, we are literally the pain for everyone else to have to use an old, outdated, crappy system so we can still get the same rods per hogshead.

Its Bullss.....loney


Imagine all the companies that make everything from scales, thermometers, cars, micrometers, etc, that require a button or switch to convert from SI to imperial.   Then of course there's the opportunity for error.  Did they load 1000 gallons or liters of fuel into that plane?  Think that's silly?  It's actually happened.  Having standards that every country follows isn't just cheaper and more efficient, it can even be safer.

\ but having to think is so haaaaaaaard!
 
2020-05-22 6:20:09 PM  

shut_it_down: Magruda: And we shouldn't have to put warning labels on everything but we live with stupid people.

So who cares about how confused hundreds of millions of people will be. They're idiots anyway and the change would be marginally useful for engineers who are already using metric. And as a trade off, the average person will be able to imprecisely measure milk by using a scale instead of a measuring cup. How useful!


No, lazy person.  You teach it to kids much more extensively so they grow up with it.  In other places you use the units side by side so people can get a sense of, for example, what 55 mph is in kph.

Lots of countries made the change.  Are you saying that this country is less capable of taking on a simple task than every other country that changes?  Or is it just you?
 
2020-05-22 6:22:54 PM  

rga184: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

It is the simplest example of convenience.  If you're designing a product with 5000 parts that have to fit together, suddenly not having to deal with 1/64 of an inch a few thousand times starts to get easier.

The truth is, it's just more convenient in every way, and the only argument you have for it NOT being more convenient is that it's inconvenient for you to change.

That isn't a compelling argument not to change.


Yet I bet you use a qwerty keyboard yourself -- like everyone else in the western world. The layout that was originally designed to intentionally increase your hand travel to slow you down so the hammers on a typewriter wouldn't jam up.  There are multiple alternatives like dvorak explicitly designed to make you a faster, more efficient typer, but no one uses them. Why?  Because learning a new layout is a big hassle with little initial payoff, especially if everyone around you uses the other standard.

As far as imperial units being more intuitive, that's complete bullshiat. The only reason it feels that way is because you grew up with it. For the rest of the world, metric is super intuitive.

/Having to switch from metric to old-timey myself, I found that it took MUCH longer to adjust to the fahrenheit scale than it was to imperial distance measurements.
 
2020-05-22 6:23:22 PM  
It should be telling that the empire that gave us imperial units changed to SI.

But we can't.
 
2020-05-22 6:29:50 PM  

rga184: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

It is the simplest example of convenience.  If you're designing a product with 5000 parts that have to fit together, suddenly not having to deal with 1/64 of an inch a few thousand times starts to get easier.

The truth is, it's just more convenient in every way, and the only argument you have for it NOT being more convenient is that it's inconvenient for you to change.

That isn't a compelling argument not to change.


You're misapplying the burden. I don't have to come up with any argument not to change. All I have to do is go back to ignoring this issue entirely, and I get my way. You're also ignoring the fact that there's a huge difference between "It would be better like this" and "you should undo how you do things now and redo it like this." You're only arguing the former and you're not contending with the latter. The undoing of a previous system is a huge problem for your side.

Say an architect walked into my house and said "you know, it would be way better for you to have 11' ceilings instead of 10' ceilings. Airflow would be better, your windows would be a more standard height, and your home would be architecturally consistent with your neighbors." Even if that is all true, those aren't compelling enough reasons for me to spend tens of thousands of dollars to tear my home in half to add a foot in height to my walls. Like it or not, the argument for metrification largely ignores how expensive and disruptive the change would be. Meanwhile, the benefits are either marginal (oh fun, I can measure milk with a scale now) or for limited to certain specialized sectors (medicine, engineering). If you can't point to a real, tangible benefit for everyday people, then your argument will never go anywhere.

If you want it to change, you guys are the ones who have to convince us that the expense and frustration involved is worth it. Instead, the arguments always come down to "you dumb Americans will get over it" and "certain tasks will be a bit simplified once you manage to figure out what's going on." I don't have to convince you of anything. I just have to walk away from the argument and I win. I feel like I come into every one of these threads and explain exactly where the arguments by the metric proponents is failing, but the response is usually that I am uneducated or stubborn. I'm not either, you guys just aren't persuasive.
 
2020-05-22 6:41:24 PM  

shut_it_down: rga184: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

It is the simplest example of convenience.  If you're designing a product with 5000 parts that have to fit together, suddenly not having to deal with 1/64 of an inch a few thousand times starts to get easier.

The truth is, it's just more convenient in every way, and the only argument you have for it NOT being more convenient is that it's inconvenient for you to change.

That isn't a compelling argument not to change.

You're misapplying the burden. I don't have to come up with any argument not to change. All I have to do is go back to ignoring this issue entirely, and I get my way. You're also ignoring the fact that there's a huge difference between "It would be better like this" and "you should undo how you do things now and redo it like this." You're only arguing the former and you're not contending with the latter. The undoing of a previous system is a huge problem for your side.

Say an architect walked into my house and said "you know, it would be way better for you to have 11' ceilings instead of 10' ceilings. Airflow would be better, your windows would be a more standard height, and your home would be architecturally consistent with your neighbors." Even if that is all true, those aren't compelling enough reasons for me to spend tens of thousands of dollars to tear my home in half to add a foot in height to my walls. Like it or not, the argument for metrification largely ignores how expensive and disruptive the change would be. Meanwhile, the benefits are either marginal (oh fun, I can measure milk with a scale now) or for limited to certain specialized sectors (medicine, engineering). If you can't point to a real, tangible benefit for everyday people, then your argument will never go anywhere.

If you want it to change, you guys are the ones who have to convince us that the expense and frustration involved is worth it. Instead, the arguments always come down to "you dumb Americans will get over it" and "certain tasks will be a bit simplified once you manage to figure out what's going on." I don't have to convince you of anything. I just have to walk away from the argument and I win. I feel like I come into every one of these threads and explain exactly where the arguments by the metric proponents is failing, but the response is usually that I am uneducated or stubborn. I'm not either, you guys just aren't persuasive.


As I posted above, there's significant cost, efficiency and safety reasons to switch.

For me, I can tell you that if I had to calculate a dose of ounces per pound of a microounce per teaspoon medication and measure it out for a 220 lb patient, it's a lot more complicated and error prone than to do it in SI.

The products you use,many of which you rey on for safety, will have similar considerations.  It is a reason why a lot of industries as it is use metric.

The problem is, you still have to bring people into that system, so not teaching this stuff to kids in school is a problem.  Maybe you're too old to change, but the argument that it's going to cost us neglects other costs involved.  From manufacturing costs to safety and health costs.  It's not just about it being midly more convenient, it's that it's universally simpler and therefore cheaper and safer.

And yes, you are stubborn.  You are literally arguing to keep using a system that every country that used to use it, abandoned.  Including the country that invented it.
 
2020-05-22 6:42:00 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The author is not wrong.


I don't know what Mel Magazine is but this article speaks to me.
 
2020-05-22 6:50:04 PM  

rga184: Ranolin: shut_it_down: rga184: Of course.  The point being that I don't have to Google anything to get it done in metric.  There's not even a conversion.  300g of water is 300cc.  Boom, done.

And sure, that might be handy the handful of times it comes up. But it's not nearly handy enough to be a compelling argument to change an entire country's units of measurement. Especially nowadays when we don't even have to look up from what we're doing to ask Alexa for a conversion.

The reason to change is largely engineering.  There are international standards for things like electronics, IEEE
Universal Serial Bus, my having a shared standard we can make things in different countries and then they could even work together!!

The International System of Units is one such standard that is kept up to date

People should not have to be convinced to move like its a pain for us to change, we are literally the pain for everyone else to have to use an old, outdated, crappy system so we can still get the same rods per hogshead.

Its Bullss.....loney

Imagine all the companies that make everything from scales, thermometers, cars, micrometers, etc, that require a button or switch to convert from SI to imperial.   Then of course there's the opportunity for error.  Did they load 1000 gallons or liters of fuel into that plane?  Think that's silly?  It's actually happened. Having standards that every country follows isn't just cheaper and more efficient, it can even be safer.

\ but having to think is so haaaaaaaard!


Yep, this thread reminded me of this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/​Gimli_Gl​ider
 
2020-05-22 6:53:30 PM  
rga184:As I posted above, there's significant cost, efficiency and safety reasons to switch.

For me, I can tell you that if I had to calculate a dose of ounces per pound of a microounce per teaspoon medication and measure it out for a 220 lb patient, it's a lot more complicated and error prone than to do it in SI.

The products you use,many of which you rey on for safety, will have similar considerations.  It is a reason why a lot of industries as it is use metric.

The problem is, you still have to bring people into that system, so not teaching this stuff to kids in school is a problem.  Maybe you're too old to change, but the argument that it's going to cost us neglects other costs involved.  From manufacturing costs to safety and health costs.  It's not just about it being midly more convenient, it's that it's universally simpler and therefore cheaper and safer.

And yes, you are stubborn.  You are literally arguing to keep using a system that every country that used to use it, abandoned.  Including the country that invented it.


Medicine and engineering already use metric. You're trying to make the argument that we should go further, and there's just no compelling reason to. The costs to switching everything else over to metric would be astronomical. NASA alone would spend $370 million to convert, not to mention every other agency and state government. Every road sign on 4 million miles of roads would have to change. So why don't you convince some people to do studies quantifying the benefits of metric. Otherwise we're just arguing about how you feel about it, and that's pointless. You don't even seem to understand my position. I'm not arguing to keep a system. I'm arguing that there is not a compelling enough reason to change.

I can also do without the "every other country does it this way" argument. That's textbook bandwagon fallacy.
 
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