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(CNBC)   Your money buys more outside Silicon Valley, so Zuckerberg can pay you less   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook, company's employees, remote work, different location, weekly live stream, different communities  
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671 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 May 2020 at 6:25 PM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



29 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-05-21 5:16:01 PM  
Thank God I don't work for a company that isn't my own, and haven't in 20 years.

One of the great things about being able to work from wherever I want is I could move to a place with a lower cost of living and still the standard going rate for the work I do.  Especially when I was in tech for 15 years (which I've moved away from.)

Pay people what they're worth and if they can work remotely- let them live somewhere with a lower cost of living.

(And no, FB does not need to pay people less because of "accounting."  They can, like all businesses, pay people whatever they want.  There are no restrictions.)

I would feel rather shafted by this, and would probably be looking elsewhere.
 
2020-05-21 5:38:44 PM  
This is common in the UK where pretty much all companies have a "London weighting" where staff working in London get a fixed percentage more than staff in the rest of the country. San Francisco is cheap compared to central London.
 
2020-05-21 6:01:59 PM  
I mean...I don't like Zuck either but this seems fair.

$250k in SF or $150k in KC. If you don't mind living in Missouri, it's kind of an easy decision.
 
2020-05-21 6:04:20 PM  
Pretty SOP for a distributed workforce, local CoL is a determinant of pay.
 
2020-05-21 6:39:34 PM  
The problem is California. The cost of real estate in Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin and Orange Counties is grossly inflated, to the point where Atherton makes Tribeca look like a bargain.
 
2020-05-21 6:54:51 PM  

Bimmer Jones: The problem is California. The cost of real estate in Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin and Orange Counties is grossly inflated, to the point where Atherton makes Tribeca look like a bargain


Median house price by county

Santa Clara, San Mateo, San Francisco and Marin (and to a lesser extent, Contra Costa and Alameda) counties are indeed very expensive.  This is because there is an outsized amount of money flowing through Silicon Valley, very real geographic constraints on usable land and NIMBYish local politics that act to thwart dense development.  The NIMBYs are definitely an issue but the absurd amount of highly paid workers are a "problem" that I think every place wants to have.

Orange county is just typical Coastal-California-expensive, nothing particularly special about it.  I'm not really sure why you put that on the list
 
2020-05-21 7:03:31 PM  

Bimmer Jones: The problem is California. The cost of real estate in Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin and Orange Counties is grossly inflated, to the point where Atherton makes Tribeca look like a bargain.


The problem is that if you are not close to Sand Hill road, you will not get funding for your startup.

That and Prop 13.
 
2020-05-21 7:03:33 PM  
There is nothing wrong in offering people less (or more) money depending on where they are being hired.

But threatening to CUT pay if you move to a cheaper location, that is a vile, unethical thing.  I moved to save ME money, not you, if you take my pay check, I will either sue if I have a contract or quit if I don't.

I would literally quit my job and say "It is true that the salary you offer is comparable to others in my new neighborhood.  But if you don't offer me more to stay with you, I would rather work with my new neighbors and make deep roots in my new community."
 
2020-05-21 7:05:40 PM  

tarkin1: There is nothing wrong in offering people less (or more) money depending on where they are being hired.

But threatening to CUT pay if you move to a cheaper location, that is a vile, unethical thing.  I moved to save ME money, not you, if you take my pay check, I will either sue if I have a contract or quit if I don't.

I would literally quit my job and say "It is true that the salary you offer is comparable to others in my new neighborhood.  But if you don't offer me more to stay with you, I would rather work with my new neighbors and make deep roots in my new community."


Just moving from California might save your company $$$'s due to lower medical, workman's comp, and unemployment insurance.
 
2020-05-21 7:06:20 PM  

downstairs: Thank God I don't work for a company that isn't my own, and haven't in 20 years.

One of the great things about being able to work from wherever I want is I could move to a place with a lower cost of living and still the standard going rate for the work I do.  Especially when I was in tech for 15 years (which I've moved away from.)

Pay people what they're worth and if they can work remotely- let them live somewhere with a lower cost of living.

(And no, FB does not need to pay people less because of "accounting."  They can, like all businesses, pay people whatever they want.  There are no restrictions.)

I would feel rather shafted by this, and would probably be looking elsewhere.


Those taking payc will feel shafted. Anyone that gets hired, can work from home and make s comfortable living for where they live will love it. In the end, if people outside the silicon valley accept less, it will work.
 
2020-05-21 7:06:51 PM  
Crap....pay cuts.
 
2020-05-21 7:15:09 PM  
Less salary, more RSU.

Problem solved.
 
2020-05-21 7:40:06 PM  

tarkin1: But threatening to CUT pay if you move to a cheaper location, that is a vile, unethical thing.  I moved to save ME money, not you, if you take my pay check, I will either sue if I have a contract or quit if I don't.


Have you known Zuckerbot to be ethical? He stole the very idea of Facebook, then screwed one of his first investors out of his stock.
 
2020-05-21 7:42:14 PM  
Amazing how a billion dollar company still tries to be cheap
 
hej
2020-05-21 8:45:47 PM  
Already live in the Midwest, already not making silicon valley money, fine with me if Zuck wants to pressure other employers to allow remote work.  The end result of remote with becoming the norm it's I can move somewhere with even lower cost of living and it's all the same to them as long as I'm in the same time zone.
 
2020-05-21 9:11:16 PM  
If you work for Facebook you deserve whatever happens to you.
 
2020-05-21 10:27:52 PM  
Zuckerberg just built the largest open concept office in the world, he's not gonna abandon it now.
 
2020-05-21 11:00:17 PM  
Ha, California finally taking it's chance to rid itself off all business.

Brilliant!
 
2020-05-21 11:14:44 PM  

kkinnison: Amazing how a billion dollar company still tries to be cheap


659b company as of today. Round up to a T in a couple years, likely.
 
2020-05-21 11:23:45 PM  

Bimmer Jones: The problem is California. The cost of real estate in Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin and Orange Counties is grossly inflated, to the point where Atherton makes Tribeca look like a bargain.


My mother's side of the family is from Atherton, it always amuses me that one of the main streets is Alameda de las Pulgas - The avenue of the fleas.
 
2020-05-21 11:53:33 PM  
"We'll adjust salary to your location at that point," said Zuckerberg, citing that this is necessary for taxes and accounting.

Bull. shiat.
 
2020-05-22 12:12:46 AM  

mcreadyblue: Bimmer Jones: The problem is California. The cost of real estate in Santa Clara, San Mateo, Marin and Orange Counties is grossly inflated, to the point where Atherton makes Tribeca look like a bargain.

The problem is that if you are not close to Sand Hill road, you will not get funding for your startup.


This is key. Silicon Valley has been declared dead a few times already - but the VCs stayed, so the startup HQs stayed.
 
2020-05-22 3:26:04 AM  

Bowen: I mean...I don't like Zuck either but this seems fair.

$250k in SF or $150k in KC. If you don't mind living in Missouri, it's kind of an easy decision.


Nope. Same work, same pay. For God's sake, why do some of y'all let rich people tell you what you're worth? Cost of living is b.s. I'm tired of living in a world where, just cause you choose to live on an expensive coast, you automatically should get paid more. I don't care that it costs more to live in New York. So the fark what? Is that all our problem?

Corporations like the big cities. They provide educated personnel, and access to a lot of things. But as this pandemic is showing, many high tech workers can work from home. Why should we continue to pay them big city salaries when they don't commute to work? If they're not commuting, stores and restaurants don't get visited. And who needs to buy work clothes?

There's going to be a lot of people finding just how expendable they are..
 
2020-05-22 10:06:19 AM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: Bowen: I mean...I don't like Zuck either but this seems fair.

$250k in SF or $150k in KC. If you don't mind living in Missouri, it's kind of an easy decision.

Nope. Same work, same pay. For God's sake, why do some of y'all let rich people tell you what you're worth? Cost of living is b.s. I'm tired of living in a world where, just cause you choose to live on an expensive coast, you automatically should get paid more. I don't care that it costs more to live in New York. So the fark what? Is that all our problem?

Corporations like the big cities. They provide educated personnel, and access to a lot of things. But as this pandemic is showing, many high tech workers can work from home. Why should we continue to pay them big city salaries when they don't commute to work? If they're not commuting, stores and restaurants don't get visited. And who needs to buy work clothes?

There's going to be a lot of people finding just how expendable they are..


You almost were going in the right direction, then decided the ditch was your preferred destination.

You don't get paid a nice salary because you work in the city - you get paid that because you are highly productive, usually in an area there aren't a large number of experts _right now_.  The people who will be hurt the most and will have their pay "go away" are all the services industry people who are generated by population density and proximity to the workers who need those services.  And most of them already know how expendable they are - it's reflected in their paycheck.
 
2020-05-22 11:05:26 AM  
I don't know why people are upset about this. Every single company I've ever worked for does the exact same thing. When I joined my last company a few years ago I was shown a data table with all of their offices listed on it and the salary that I'd get if I worked at that location. You see I was given the option to work from wherever I wanted. That's a red flag and a half right there.

What people don't understand is that this whole work from home revolution is going to go bust and fast... especially out here in SF where its dog eat dog start up mentality even at FB. Proximity bias alone will drive anyone with any ambition back to the office full time. 

You want to wfh? Great. Wonderful. I'll be at the office getting face time with upper management while you sit in your flannel pants getting 85% of your normal work load done.
 
2020-05-22 11:25:12 AM  

MadHatter500: BlackChickWhiteAccent: Bowen: I mean...I don't like Zuck either but this seems fair.

$250k in SF or $150k in KC. If you don't mind living in Missouri, it's kind of an easy decision.

Nope. Same work, same pay. For God's sake, why do some of y'all let rich people tell you what you're worth? Cost of living is b.s. I'm tired of living in a world where, just cause you choose to live on an expensive coast, you automatically should get paid more. I don't care that it costs more to live in New York. So the fark what? Is that all our problem?

Corporations like the big cities. They provide educated personnel, and access to a lot of things. But as this pandemic is showing, many high tech workers can work from home. Why should we continue to pay them big city salaries when they don't commute to work? If they're not commuting, stores and restaurants don't get visited. And who needs to buy work clothes?

There's going to be a lot of people finding just how expendable they are..

You almost were going in the right direction, then decided the ditch was your preferred destination.

You don't get paid a nice salary because you work in the city - you get paid that because you are highly productive, usually in an area there aren't a large number of experts _right now_.  The people who will be hurt the most and will have their pay "go away" are all the services industry people who are generated by population density and proximity to the workers who need those services.  And most of them already know how expendable they are - it's reflected in their paycheck.


I get that darlin. 20 years experience should be worth 20 years experience. But this is what some of you are finding out the hard way: what you think you are worth, and what your companies are willing to pay is based on a set of arbitrary rules, and a grossly inflated real estate market.

Y'all keep saying: it costs more to live in California. Yes it does. And the natives are resentful as fark. You command at least 250-k to work there, but you have big problems paying someone 15 an hour, which is only 30-thousand a year? Maybe they worked at McDonald's for 20 years too. And although they may not have a college degree, 20 years experience should command at least 15 goddamned dollars an hour.

And don't give me that b.s.about whether or not you support that. You dont, you never did, and you never will. Because you never vote that way. You say you do, yet we still have people working full time and have to use food stamps. We still have farking Trump. Not all the "rubes' are poor, and live in trailer parks. Some of them live and work in Silicon valley.

You do good, important work. But your government doesn't care about you, and neither do your corporate overlords. There are lots of people working from home who are helping keep our infrastructure together. They spend all day on their computers, phones and Zoom, trying to make sure the bridges stay up, your power stays on, and your water is clean. They're still planning budgets and trying hard as hell to keep the rest of the folks who were sent to work from home, paid. It's important work.

But the most important work of all is being done outside your home. Whether it's fast food, running gas stations, cleaning and disinfecting buildings, emptying trash, keeping you safe from criminals, doing CPR in the ambulance, wearing dirty masks to administrator your medication, or working on power lines, those folks are just as important to you, and y'all never fail to find a way to treat them like shiat. Why the fark should a 21 year old computer programmer be worth 200-thousand to make a video game, but Gladys, whose been working 20 years as a waitress barely be able to make ends meet?

Oh yeah, cause she has no education and a shiat job. And she doesn't live in California, so she's not worth 15 dollars an hour.

Gladys is still working. She wears a homemade mask. But she's not important right now, cause we need to create a trillion dollar bailout package that will still find it's way to the people who need it the least.

And they gleefully watch us fight over the crumbs.
 
2020-05-22 11:33:55 AM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: But the most important work of all is being done outside your home. Whether it's fast food, running gas stations, cleaning and disinfecting buildings, emptying trash, keeping you safe from criminals, doing CPR in the ambulance, wearing dirty masks to administrator your medication, or working on power lines, those folks are just as important to you, and y'all never fail to find a way to treat them like shiat. Why the fark should a 21 year old computer programmer be worth 200-thousand to make a video game, but Gladys, whose been working 20 years as a waitress barely be able to make ends meet?

Oh yeah, cause she has no education and a shiat job. And she doesn't live in California, so she's not worth 15 dollars an hour.

Gladys is still working. She wears a homemade mask. But she's not important right now, cause we need to create a trillion dollar bailout package that will still find it's way to the people who need it the least.

And they gleefully watch us fight over the crumbs.


Gladys should have learned to type:

static.tvtropes.orgView Full Size
 
2020-05-22 12:53:55 PM  
How better to ensure there is no upward mobility in our society then claiming no need to pay the same to everyone for a job, if you live in the ghetto already we ca just pay you ghetto rates to be sure you stay the fook in your place shiat pile.
 
2020-05-22 1:52:18 PM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: MadHatter500: BlackChickWhiteAccent: Bowen: I mean...I don't like Zuck either but this seems fair.

$250k in SF or $150k in KC. If you don't mind living in Missouri, it's kind of an easy decision.

Nope. Same work, same pay. For God's sake, why do some of y'all let rich people tell you what you're worth? Cost of living is b.s. I'm tired of living in a world where, just cause you choose to live on an expensive coast, you automatically should get paid more. I don't care that it costs more to live in New York. So the fark what? Is that all our problem?

Corporations like the big cities. They provide educated personnel, and access to a lot of things. But as this pandemic is showing, many high tech workers can work from home. Why should we continue to pay them big city salaries when they don't commute to work? If they're not commuting, stores and restaurants don't get visited. And who needs to buy work clothes?

There's going to be a lot of people finding just how expendable they are..

You almost were going in the right direction, then decided the ditch was your preferred destination.

You don't get paid a nice salary because you work in the city - you get paid that because you are highly productive, usually in an area there aren't a large number of experts _right now_.  The people who will be hurt the most and will have their pay "go away" are all the services industry people who are generated by population density and proximity to the workers who need those services.  And most of them already know how expendable they are - it's reflected in their paycheck.

I get that darlin. 20 years experience should be worth 20 years experience. But this is what some of you are finding out the hard way: what you think you are worth, and what your companies are willing to pay is based on a set of arbitrary rules, and a grossly inflated real estate market.

Y'all keep saying: it costs more to live in California. Yes it does. And the natives are resentful as fark. You command at least 250-k to work there, but you have big problems paying someone 15 an hour, which is only 30-thousand a year? Maybe they worked at McDonald's for 20 years too. And although they may not have a college degree, 20 years experience should command at least 15 goddamned dollars an hour.

And don't give me that b.s.about whether or not you support that. You dont, you never did, and you never will. Because you never vote that way. You say you do, yet we still have people working full time and have to use food stamps. We still have farking Trump. Not all the "rubes' are poor, and live in trailer parks. Some of them live and work in Silicon valley.

You do good, important work. But your government doesn't care about you, and neither do your corporate overlords. There are lots of people working from home who are helping keep our infrastructure together. They spend all day on their computers, phones and Zoom, trying to make sure the bridges stay up, your power stays on, and your water is clean. They're still planning budgets and trying hard as hell to keep the rest of the folks who were sent to work from home, paid. It's important work.

But the most important work of all is being done outside your home. Whether it's fast food, running gas stations, cleaning and disinfecting buildings, emptying trash, keeping you safe from criminals, doing CPR in the ambulance, wearing dirty masks to administrator your medication, or working on power lines, those folks are just as important to you, and y'all never fail to find a way to treat them like shiat. Why the fark should a 21 year old computer programmer be worth 200-thousand to make a video game, but Gladys, whose been working 20 years as a waitress barely be able to make ends meet?

Oh yeah, cause she has no education and a shiat job. And she doesn't live in California, so she's not worth 15 dollars an hour.

Gladys is still working. She wears a homemade mask. But she's not important right now, cause we need to create a trillion dollar bailout package that will still find it's way to the people who need it the least.

And they gleefully watch us fight over the crumbs.


You're my new favorite on Fark.  There are a few economic reasons why the 21 year old programmer makes more than Gladys (cost to replace comes to mind), but I wholeheartedly agree that Gladys should be making a livable wage.  This illustrates one of the many problems in the US, namely the back and forth struggle of businesses attempting to be successful at all costs and the government looking out for the greater good of its citizens.
 
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