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(Economist)   Article on the coronavirus "de-churching" America. Maybe God got finally sick and tired of American Christians and sent a plague to put an end to it. Everybody else is just collateral damage   (economist.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Church, Walt Disney World Resort, Community Presbyterian church, Walt Disney, Synagogue, Christian terms, Evidence, last priest of St Casimir  
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2900 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 21 May 2020 at 4:32 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-21 2:49:04 PM  
Organized religion has been a grift since the beginning of time.

Good riddance.
 
2020-05-21 3:57:19 PM  
As good a theory as any other.
 
2020-05-21 4:03:48 PM  
Finally. Some good news.
 
2020-05-21 4:34:39 PM  
[A]nd lo, He doth run out of locusts, instead sending a Crisco Colossus to wreak Herp and Derp across the lands.
 
2020-05-21 4:34:44 PM  
no.  because unlike god the virus is real.

next theory.
 
2020-05-21 4:36:24 PM  
ahhh yes, the old "Noah-roosky"
 
2020-05-21 4:38:24 PM  
These pussies cry like little biatches with a skinned knee every time the slightest shiat happens.

Stop whining, churchey.

They always yap about their "unbreakable faith in the lord" and shiat but it sounds like pretty much anything from a Marilyn Manson t-shirt to some guy drinking a beer on sunday can shatter their faith into a million pieces.
 
2020-05-21 4:38:37 PM  
Screw putting "God" in schools!
Let's put some education in churches!
 
2020-05-21 4:40:23 PM  
Remember when Focus on the Family asked people to pray for rain to disrupt the 2008 DNC? Since Obama's big speech was outdoors, they prayed that heavy rain would disrupt the proceedings and force them inside so the event would lack the outdoor grandeur.

Instead, Obama had great weather and a hurricane disrupted the first day of the RNC. Twice. First in 2008 and again in 2012.
 
2020-05-21 4:40:51 PM  
tax the churches.

those that refuse can be burnt to the ground and lands sold off to the lowest bidder for the good of society.
 
2020-05-21 4:41:51 PM  
Long time coming
Many served the few
And long to taste the shame
That bows down before you

Shame shame
Throw yourself away

Long time coming
 
2020-05-21 4:42:15 PM  
i couldn't read it because i don't subscribe to the economist.

i guess the other fark readers must be "in the business"

anyway, economists have predicted 9 of the last 3 recessions......
 
2020-05-21 4:46:16 PM  
I am OK with this!
 
2020-05-21 4:46:37 PM  
Kind of premature to come to conclusions before the OK is given to go back and until people feel all right about going back.
 
2020-05-21 4:46:53 PM  

Lumber Jack Off: tax the churches.

those that refuse can be burnt to the ground and lands sold off to the lowest bidder for the good of society.


Public housing would be nice
 
2020-05-21 4:48:45 PM  
Maybe the Grandfather loves His flock, and gave them His Greatest Gift since eternal life?
 
2020-05-21 4:48:46 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-21 4:50:08 PM  

dothemath: They always yap about their "unbreakable faith in the lord" and shiat but it sounds like pretty much anything from a Marilyn Manson t-shirt to some guy drinking a beer on sunday can shatter their faith into a million pieces.


I know there are some religious groups out and about that are trying to help the community, but based on my very unofficial sampling of evangelical types on Facebook, they are spending more time complaining about not being able to go to church than actually doing good works. They are putting themselves and others in danger by going to massive protests, not distancing, and not wearing masks while doing so. It would be one thing if they were putting themselves in danger to help others, but they are just complaining.

Helping during pandemics in Rome helped the church become more legitimized in the empire. The protestant movement gained prominence during the plague because many of the more influential members (including Martin Luther and his family) stayed to help the sick rather than fleeing to the countryside to protect their own health. I doubt that modern evangelicals would do the same.
 
2020-05-21 4:52:23 PM  

Lumber Jack Off: tax the churches.

those that refuse can be burnt to the ground and lands sold off to the lowest bidder for the good of society.


memesmonkey.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-21 4:52:38 PM  
So now that y'all are giving up on the weak, "sacrifice" himself to himself to change a rule he made up, trivially defeated by a couple nails and some thorns god, may I interest you in an...older, mightier entity to worship? First one to sign up gets eaten last, promise!
 
2020-05-21 4:56:19 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-21 4:57:16 PM  
Honestly, can't think of people who deserve it more.

Not every religious person in America is a sanctimonious, hypocritical asshole. But enough of them are and the ones who aren't don't seem to be doing much to restrain the assholes.

So ...  President Flag Humper did this to you. You thought he would only hurt the godless "liberals" and the Muslims and other undesirable minorities.

And you ended up farking yourselves. LOL
 
2020-05-21 4:58:02 PM  

MythDragon: [i.pinimg.com image 236x354]


What about when the last lion roars at the last dusty fountain?
 
2020-05-21 4:58:32 PM  
I always thought it would be cool to turn a little church into a house

and the parking lot might be good roller skating
 
2020-05-21 5:02:12 PM  
Works for me.
 
2020-05-21 5:02:22 PM  

Majin_Buu: [A]nd lo, He doth run out of locusts, instead sending a Crisco Colossus to wreak Herp and Derp across the lands.


Fark user imageView Full Size


/oblig
 
2020-05-21 5:04:45 PM  

Short Victoria's War: Majin_Buu: [A]nd lo, He doth run out of locusts, instead sending a Crisco Colossus to wreak Herp and Derp across the lands.

[Fark user image 613x395]

/oblig


And this is why Donald Trump is screwing over the poors--to give churches a job to do so they'll stay in business.
 
2020-05-21 5:06:12 PM  
I haven't been to church since I was about 5 years old.

I don't understand Farks hate for churches. I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe. I have zero interaction with them in my daily life.

Why do they rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?
 
2020-05-21 5:09:24 PM  
I've read the bible and I can see wisdom in it and if more Christians followed the words of Christ then the world would be a much better place than it currently is. Unfortunately for many they think not of religion as a path to follow but as a means of control and superiority over others. Ever megachurch, ever preacher of the "prosperity gospel", every anti abortion advocate, and every homophobe or racist that uses the bible to justify their beliefs stands against the very basis of their own religion. You can't proclaim a religion as a source of morality and then use it to justify your own hatreds and expect me to think of you as anything other than a hypocritical ass.

/Love your neighbor
// Don't be a dick
/// You don't need a big building and a man in a funny hat telling you this to be a good person.
 
2020-05-21 5:09:39 PM  
God doesn't care if you go to church or not.  Most evangelical folks only go so they can feel better about being an asshole the other 6 days of the week.
 
2020-05-21 5:11:25 PM  

jfclark27: I haven't been to church since I was about 5 years old.

I don't understand Farks hate for churches. I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe. I have zero interaction with them in my daily life.

Why do they rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?


Because they don't stay in church...

Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-21 5:13:54 PM  

jfclark27: I haven't been to church since I was about 5 years old.

I don't understand Farks hate for churches. I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe. I have zero interaction with them in my daily life.

Why do they rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?


same here. became an atheist because of being alter boy when i was a kid. i think it has something to do with the obsession with darwin. i dunno.

it seems to be everywhere. all i know is that some of these bible thumpers would be the first to help you if your car broke down. and i'd rather slit my own wrists rather than have to sit through their blather about jesus coming back and saving us all.  while some of the fark hate people would be the first to drive through a puddle to get you soaking wet. then putting the video on facebook.
 
2020-05-21 5:15:34 PM  

Billy Liar: Kind of premature to come to conclusions before the OK is given to go back and until people feel all right about going back.


It could just as easily have the opposite effect.
 
2020-05-21 5:19:47 PM  

ladodger34: dothemath: They always yap about their "unbreakable faith in the lord" and shiat but it sounds like pretty much anything from a Marilyn Manson t-shirt to some guy drinking a beer on sunday can shatter their faith into a million pieces.

I know there are some religious groups out and about that are trying to help the community, but based on my very unofficial sampling of evangelical types on Facebook, they are spending more time complaining about not being able to go to church than actually doing good works. They are putting themselves and others in danger by going to massive protests, not distancing, and not wearing masks while doing so. It would be one thing if they were putting themselves in danger to help others, but they are just complaining.


While I don't disagree with you, I think you are also running into quite a bit of conformation bias in your observations.

I have a few friends who are still fairly religious/quite involved with their assorted churches (one a fairly large for the area 'mega church').  Since all this chaos started each church quickly shut down in person & went to online services.  They each have done quite a bit of community service/charity work on a regular basis (mainly, that I've heard of anyway, handing out/redistributing donated food & cleaning supplies).  None of them to my knowledge plans on restarting in person services any time soon even though it's now technically 'allowed' by the .gov

The point being, that with like many things, the churches (in this case) that just buckle down & try to do good things/help out aren't the ones getting all the publicity/news stories because that's what they're supposed to do.  The ones taking their marching orders from the Toddler in Chief & screaming like petulant children are the ones that the news will focus on because stories like that will generate clicks/page views.  Are there churches/organizations like that?  Oh yes, far, far, too many of them.  I'd like to think however that they still are in the minority & that the 'good' churches, the ones who are just quietly doing what they can to help out, are still out there in the majority.

/not that I'd object in any way if the de-churching of America (the entire world really) was accelerating
//we can start by revoking ALL their tax exempt statuses
 
2020-05-21 5:21:05 PM  
Back in spring of 2007, I skipped church one Sunday.

I was tired from my grad coursework, I had a new girlfriend, and my mom had died a few months earlier, so I really just wanted the morning to myself to be quiet and process where I was in life, instead of summoning fake enthusiasm about how much I loved Happy Fun Jesus Time. It would be fine, I reasoned; I'd just pray and read the Bible on my own. So I did, for a little while, then I started reading a religious book that he been on my shelf for a few years that I'd never gotten around to cracking open: Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator.

Little did I know, that morning would teach me two things I wasn't ready for.

For those of you not familiar, Lee Strobel's books all pimp his credibility as a "journalist" examining evidence as he attempts to ask questions about religious topics. Each chapter is an interview with an "expert" about a specific question. Except, he only interviews "experts" within his religious sect, doesn't seek any opposing opinions, and doesn't ask follow-up questions to weaksauce answers, so unsurprisingly he concludes what he set out to prove.

Anyway, since I'd actually been doing actual scientific work using actual primary sources, I recognized very quickly how sloppy and biased the interview process was, but that didn't worry me too much. What concerned me much more was that in one of the interviews, (with Johnathan Wells, I think,) he made a claim about Archaeopteryx that ran counter to everything I'd ever heard actual biologists say. (I don't remember exactly what it was, but probably something along the lines of "biologists consider Archaeopteryx to be a true bird with some reptile-like features," or something similar.) Rather than let the thought fester, though, I went and looked up counterclaims on the internet. I didn't just read the arguments, though, I actually looked up some of the primary sources, including articles from paleontology journals, and came to the only conclusion I could, my first lesson of the day:

The "expert" being interviewed (and by extension Lee Strobel) had lied. Not just been mistaken, not just had a differing opinion, not just drawn different conclusions from the same facts, but had lied. They had based a very pivotal claim about transitional fossils not existing on a complete falsehood about the state of paleontology that either person involved would have known was false if they'd done any research whatsoever, (and Wells actually did hold a degree in biology.)

Someone being wrong or even lying in support of a position doesn't mean the position is wrong, of course, but given that most of the church leaders I know thought that the book was great, (I'd been given the book by a pastor,) I was very distressed to discover that the people who I had relied on for doctrine either didn't know how to check for truth, or didn't care. And if they couldn't or wouldn't identify obvious falsehoods regarding biology, what else couldn't I trust them to teach me about?

The second thing I learned that day was that - existential crises about pastors not knowing what they were talking about aside - skipping church wasn't that bad. It certainly didn't make my week worse. And if I wasn't actually benefiting, what was the point of going in the first place.

By the end of summer I had left Christianity altogether.

As the COVID-19 crisis has dragged on, I have begun to suspect that one of the reasons pastors are so desperate to re-open churches is the second lesson I learned that fateful morning 13 years ago: You don't actually need to go to church. Sure, some people get something out of it sometimes, but for a huge fraction of regular churchgoers, it's a chore. And to the church of you being there to have your religious programming reinforced is almost always greater than the benefit to you.

And the pastors realize that if too many people figure this out, they're in trouble.
 
2020-05-21 5:22:08 PM  

jfclark27: I haven't been to church since I was about 5 years old.

I don't understand Farks hate for churches. I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe. I have zero interaction with them in my daily life.

Why do they rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?


Like you, I never gave a shiat one way or the other.  Until one day.  I go and see a new endocrinologist (I'm a Type-1 diabetic -- multiple injections daily, or I die.  Multiple blood tests a day, so I know how much to inject.  This is due to a failure of my immune system, not diet or anything like that).  That new endocrinologist and I have this conversation:

Me:  Hi!  Do you have many Type-1 patients?
Him:  Oh yes.  Are you religious?
Me: ... uh... no.  It's just never been a part of life for me.
Him:  We'll get you studying scripture and slowly get you off of insulin.
Me: ... uh.   I'm a Type-1.  I kind of need insulin.
Him: We'll get you going with the scripture and start waning you off of it.
Me:  (just walked right out, told the front desk to bill me (they never did))

(hours later) I report him to the State board.  And again.  And again.  Over the course of 4.5 years.  Nothing was ever done or said.

That's my problem with it all.  Not just churches.
 
2020-05-21 5:24:50 PM  
My god you people are exceptionalist at just every farkin' opportunity aren't you?
 
2020-05-21 5:27:03 PM  

jfclark27: I haven't been to church since I was about 5 years old.

I don't understand Farks hate for churches. I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe. I have zero interaction with them in my daily life.

Why do they rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?


Some of us were forced to attend under physical-harm-to-you if you do not edict, had their fiddled by priests and then been shunned from the 'godly' people. This and the whole false facts idiocy. But aside than that, and the racist, xenophobic rubes, the church is cool. I mean, if I want to go stare at a guy splayed out on a cross covered in blood as someone makes me feel bad about myself, cool. Yea.

Screw all invisible sky wizards and their hordes of apostates.
 
2020-05-21 5:29:35 PM  

flart blooger: i couldn't read it because i don't subscribe to the economist.

i guess the other fark readers must be "in the business"

anyway, economists have predicted 9 of the last 3 recessions......


5 free articles with a 10 minutes email address.
 
2020-05-21 5:29:45 PM  
Evangelicals aren't Christian. Evangelicals are the reason the second coming of Jesus Christ has been held in Gitmo all these years.
 
2020-05-21 5:30:15 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Back in spring of 2007, I skipped church one Sunday.

I was tired from my grad coursework, I had a new girlfriend, and my mom had died a few months earlier, so I really just wanted the morning to myself to be quiet and process where I was in life, instead of summoning fake enthusiasm about how much I loved Happy Fun Jesus Time. It would be fine, I reasoned; I'd just pray and read the Bible on my own. So I did, for a little while, then I started reading a religious book that he been on my shelf for a few years that I'd never gotten around to cracking open: Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator.

Little did I know, that morning would teach me two things I wasn't ready for.

For those of you not familiar, Lee Strobel's books all pimp his credibility as a "journalist" examining evidence as he attempts to ask questions about religious topics. Each chapter is an interview with an "expert" about a specific question. Except, he only interviews "experts" within his religious sect, doesn't seek any opposing opinions, and doesn't ask follow-up questions to weaksauce answers, so unsurprisingly he concludes what he set out to prove.

Anyway, since I'd actually been doing actual scientific work using actual primary sources, I recognized very quickly how sloppy and biased the interview process was, but that didn't worry me too much. What concerned me much more was that in one of the interviews, (with Johnathan Wells, I think,) he made a claim about Archaeopteryx that ran counter to everything I'd ever heard actual biologists say. (I don't remember exactly what it was, but probably something along the lines of "biologists consider Archaeopteryx to be a true bird with some reptile-like features," or something similar.) Rather than let the thought fester, though, I went and looked up counterclaims on the internet. I didn't just read the arguments, though, I actually looked up some of the primary sources, including articles from paleontology journals, and came to the only conclusion I ...


Your deconversion reminds me of how I went from a teenage Republican shiathead to completely disavowing the GOP after a little time in college. I started picking up on what systems were put together through through strict academic rigor versus those that relied on bare assertions. It became impossible for me to read any conservative "intellectual" writing after that.
 
2020-05-21 5:31:42 PM  
 
2020-05-21 5:31:59 PM  

Recoil Therapy: While I don't disagree with you, I think you are also running into quite a bit of conformation bias in your observations.

I have a few friends who are still fairly religious/quite involved with their assorted churches (one a fairly large for the area 'mega church').  Since all this chaos started each church quickly shut down in person & went to online services.  They each have done quite a bit of community service/charity work on a regular basis (mainly, that I've heard of anyway, handing out/redistributing donated food & cleaning supplies).  None of them to my knowledge plans on restarting in person services any time soon even though it's now technically 'allowed' by the .gov


There's no doubt that I am running into quite a bit of confirmation bias. I remember at my great uncle's funeral (way back when I was in high school) that the pastor said that the best compliment that you could receive is that "you lived your religion", meaning that you were a good person but didn't have to let everyone know about it. I'm not super religious, but I thought it was a nice sentiment. Sort of along the lines of "be good for the sake of being good" sort of thing. There is little doubt that there are more people like that than the folks I used in my sample. They are just so darned loud about it that they drown out the more sane and kind people.
 
2020-05-21 5:33:02 PM  
Evangelists very quick to tell us that natural disasters are god's punishment for the gays/abortion/feminists etc etc, but they don't seem to notice that god has sent the plague to punish Trump

Join the dots sheeple!
 
2020-05-21 5:33:33 PM  

jfclark27: Why do [churches] rent so much space in your head, and how much do you charge?


They pay by getting someone they control into power. Have to think about religion in order to think about one demented asshole who is capable of unilaterally launching nukes.

I never understood why no US president has yet decided to nudge the schedule for Armageddon forward a bit. Can anyone explain? The Second Coming of the Lord is a good thing, and the tribulations described in the Book of Revelation come before that, so launching the nukes now to cause some tribulation is a good thing because it brings the moment of His return forward, right? Why didn't they do that yet?
 
2020-05-21 5:41:23 PM  

jfclark27: I've managed to live my entire life without giving a damn about they believe.


It's not what they believe that pisses people off.
It's what they try to force everyone ELSE to believe that's the problem.
Evangelicals especially. American ones in particular.
Just can't leave other people alone to live their own lives.
In your bedroom, in your womb, in your decisions, in your life.
So long as they believe and follow what they want to, cool.
Don't insist I do the same or try to force me to do so by laws that they made.
 
2020-05-21 5:42:10 PM  

Majin_Buu: [A]nd lo, He doth run out of locusts, instead sending a Crisco Colossus to wreak Herp and Derp across the lands.


Leave us outta this!
 
2020-05-21 5:47:18 PM  
And from about ten years ago:

https://www.fark.com/comments/5809363​/​Its-socialization-of-organized-religio​n-that-makes-people-happy-not-faith-in​-god-That-guy-always-ruins-party?cpp=1​

tribalism |ˈtrībəˌlizəm|
noun
the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes.
• chiefly derogatory the behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group: a society motivated by cultural tribalism.
 
2020-05-21 5:49:26 PM  
I've till GoT Muh Libruhl church of the TrAnSGenders haw hawhaw . we're just doing online services


/ they are mostly humanists though, and think I'm the freak with my channeled books
 
2020-05-21 5:50:47 PM  
Beliefs predicated on faith can be dangerous.  People kill over beliefs, people die for beliefs.  More bloody wars throughout history have been fought over religion than any other reason.  It's because they all think that "God is on their side", when if God cares at all, is certainly not going to interfere.
 
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