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(Ars Technica)   Google CEO:"Hardware is hard". Software unavailable for comment   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Google, Google's hardware division, Google Pixel, IPhone, ARM architecture, Google CEO Sundar Pichai, future of the Pixel line, real time  
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681 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 May 2020 at 3:35 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



30 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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4 days ago  
The last couple of years have been a major integration phase for us because we've combined our Google hardware efforts with Nest. We absorbed the mobile division of HTC. So it's been a lot of stitching together. And we have a wide product portfolio, too. So it's definitely been a building phase. We're super committed to it for the long run. Hardware is hard. And it definitely has components, which take real time to get it right, thinking about underlying silicon or display or camera or any of those tacks. And so we are definitely investing in it, but that timeline. I think we've made a lot of progress.

CEO translation: "We bought those companies for the software, and we're jettisoning our hardware divisions as soon as we can find a buyer."
 
4 days ago  
Firmware's partner complains that it's just pushing rope at this point.
 
4 days ago  

bdub77: The last couple of years have been a major integration phase for us because we've combined our Google hardware efforts with Nest. We absorbed the mobile division of HTC. So it's been a lot of stitching together. And we have a wide product portfolio, too. So it's definitely been a building phase. We're super committed to it for the long run. Hardware is hard. And it definitely has components, which take real time to get it right, thinking about underlying silicon or display or camera or any of those tacks. And so we are definitely investing in it, but that timeline. I think we've made a lot of progress.

CEO translation: "We bought those companies for the software, and we're jettisoning our hardware divisions as soon as we can find a buyer."


Ummm... HTC's software was Android, which Google already owns.

The issue here is that Google decided that they were a premium hardware brand, and couldn't deliver enough value for the premium prices they were charging.

The battery life on the Pixel 4 absolutely blows chunks.

They should have stuck to the Nexus strategy of selling cheap phones with midrange specs.
 
4 days ago  
It's difficult to remember that the Pixel brand even exists, so I'm assuming marketing is hard, too.
 
4 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
4 days ago  
If they hadn't farked up the supply of Pixel 2 I would have been a customer.  Ended up switching to iPhone and, meh, why bother switching back?

/Facetime and imessage can't be replaced.
//Yes I also use whatsapp
 
4 days ago  

dk47: /Facetime and imessage can't be replaced.


So Skype, Hangouts, Duo, Line, Viber, Wire and Jitsi are not things that exist for video chats?
And RCS messaging, Signal and Telegraph all similarly don't exist?

Right. Got it. Good to know. It's good to know that these Apple-only services exist to fill these undeniable voids in basic utility!
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: So Skype, Hangouts, Duo, Line, Viber, Wire and Jitsi are not things that exist for video chats?


I use many of those, as well as several others, and none of them have the ease of use of FaceTime. My mom can't figure out how to switch to the front facing camera while in a call, but she can still make FaceTime calls.

Similarly, the Apple Messages app's transparency is great. It just works, and I don't have to worry about what apps someone has installed. It's even better than FaceTime, honestly, because it'll text if text is the right choice.

Neither FaceTime nor Messages are my primary tools for video chats or messaging, but yes, for a lot of people they are irreplaceable.

(Honestly, you'd think in 2020 there'd be a good video conference tool, but... nope. They all continue to suck)
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: dk47: /Facetime and imessage can't be replaced.

So Skype, Hangouts, Duo, Line, Viber, Wire and Jitsi are not things that exist for video chats?
And RCS messaging, Signal and Telegraph all similarly don't exist?

Right. Got it. Good to know. It's good to know that these Apple-only services exist to fill these undeniable voids in basic utility!


Just by that alphabet soup there you betrayed the weakness.  Who's on what?  Yup I use Skype too but it's just not as easy or convenient.  I was never going to get an iphone but it's just not worth the trouble sorting through all of Android's platforms.  My wife's last iPhone lasted six years.  If you like fiddling with all that stuff, great.  There's a point in life where it's just not interesting.
 
4 days ago  

dk47: I was never going to get an iphone


If you're never going to get an iphone, you're never going to fully make use of Facetime or imessage, either.

Skype is installed on every Windows 8 and Windows 10 PC by default and Hangouts is as easy to use as a visit to a web page, regardless of your device platform. Your mom can handle it.

I have no earthly idea what makes iMessage better for messaging. I blocked SMS at the carrier level on my phone, but RCS does use internet transport and has the distinct advantage of working with all US carriers and devices that care to offer a client for it (as of 2020, the Google Messages application should be available for all Android devices with the Play Services Framework installed. No idea what iOS people could do). If you're being picky about privacy, Telegram and Signal are also credible options. Since Apple isn't ever going to open up iMessage, the best option is really for people to move off the closed service. Better things exist. Unless the thing you care most about in imessage is making sure you're not talking to any filthy green bubble people.
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: dk47: I was never going to get an iphone

If you're never going to get an iphone, you're never going to fully make use of Facetime or imessage, either.


I think what he meant to say was: "I would rather pay $1200 for a phone and use services that only connect to half the other phones out there, than tell my friends I don't have an iPhone."
 
4 days ago  

CommonName2: likefunbutnot: dk47: I was never going to get an iphone

If you're never going to get an iphone, you're never going to fully make use of Facetime or imessage, either.

I think what he meant to say was: "I would rather pay $1200 for a phone and use services that only connect to half the other phones out there, than tell my friends I don't have an iPhone."


You know you can get an Iphone for a lot less than that right? And on average people keep them for a long time.

I work for Apple, but I am not like Bull Bear MS and you can google the epic fight we have had over the years.

Facetime has been around forever and a day. 10 years and is a native client that you can use without having to install another app.  It did video before Whatsapp and and Viber.

Imessage, well has been around forever as well and is one of the main reasons cell phone carriers stop charging insane fees for sms.

Imessage also does not have the messaging restrictions of sms/mms.

Apple Users can also send each other cash via the system.

Again a native app.

I am a senior tech and not in sales, and mostly mac side of the house(though i do it all because i have worked in most departments) but I do know we are selling the shiat out of the new SE for just 399 and a lot of carriers are doing it for 99.
 
4 days ago  
I love how Android threads derail into iPhone bashing.
The Pixel team is blowing it
All they needed to do was put out a good device. Forget the gimicky crap like Soli or stupid squeeze the side crap.
Good screen, good battery life, camera equal to or better than previous one.
Biggest selling point has been Vanilla Android with timely updates and camera.
It's only hard when you make it hard.
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: dk47: I was never going to get an iphone

If you're never going to get an iphone, you're never going to fully make use of Facetime or imessage, either.

Skype is installed on every Windows 8 and Windows 10 PC by default and Hangouts is as easy to use as a visit to a web page, regardless of your device platform. Your mom can handle it.

I have no earthly idea what makes iMessage better for messaging. I blocked SMS at the carrier level on my phone, but RCS does use internet transport and has the distinct advantage of working with all US carriers and devices that care to offer a client for it (as of 2020, the Google Messages application should be available for all Android devices with the Play Services Framework installed. No idea what iOS people could do). If you're being picky about privacy, Telegram and Signal are also credible options. Since Apple isn't ever going to open up iMessage, the best option is really for people to move off the closed service. Better things exist. Unless the thing you care most about in imessage is making sure you're not talking to any filthy green bubble people.


You can make iMessage work on an Android phone. You just need a Mac to run a server and a client app for your phone. You also need to know what you're doing to some degree, but there are guides to walk you through setup.
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: Your mom can handle it.


I couldn't get my mom to open Safari on her iPhone, are you kidding? If I Facetime, her phone just rings and she just answers it. I don't have to explain anything to her.
 
4 days ago  

t3knomanser: If I Facetime, her phone just rings and she just answers it. I don't have to explain anything to her.


Hangouts also works that way.

Actually, so do Amazon calls. My mom leaves her phone in her purse all the damned time so most of the time I'm talking to her, it's through an Alexa-enabled device.
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: t3knomanser: If I Facetime, her phone just rings and she just answers it. I don't have to explain anything to her.

Hangouts also works that way.

Actually, so do Amazon calls. My mom leaves her phone in her purse all the damned time so most of the time I'm talking to her, it's through an Alexa-enabled device.


Hangouts works that way if it's installed on your phone.  And I wouldn't let anyone in my family buy any of that Amazon trash.
 
4 days ago  

t3knomanser: likefunbutnot: Your mom can handle it.

I couldn't get my mom to open Safari on her iPhone, are you kidding? If I Facetime, her phone just rings and she just answers it. I don't have to explain anything to her.


Isn't that how every messaging app works? If somebody calls me on Signal, it rings in a manner virtually identical to a normal phone call.


Facetime being installed on every device actually reminds me of that whole Internet Explorer problem Microsoft had. Except nobody cares with Apple.
 
4 days ago  

Herr Flick's Revenge: I love how Android threads derail into iPhone bashing.


You don't think every single bit of it is deserved?
Apple is fully capable of making Facetime or iMessage clients for other platforms. It chooses not to, which invalidates their utility as communication tools. "I need a $1000 phone so I can use the video chat with  the fewest buttons" isn't an acceptable answer for the overwhelming majority of smartphone owners. That's an absolutely fantastic reason to slam Apple and its software.
 
4 days ago  

t3knomanser: Hangouts works that way if it's installed on your phone.


Is there an Android phone that doesn't have it? I haven't seen one that didn't as of yet. Even the shiatty prepaid phones at Walmart will have it.
 
4 days ago  

likefunbutnot: t3knomanser: Hangouts works that way if it's installed on your phone.

Is there an Android phone that doesn't have it? I haven't seen one that didn't as of yet. Even the shiatty prepaid phones at Walmart will have it.


No idea, I haven't touched android in years and they didn't have Hangouts back then. And Google keeps trying to kill hangouts and replace it with something else.
 
4 days ago  

t3knomanser: No idea, I haven't touched android in years and they didn't have Hangouts back then. And Google keeps trying to kill hangouts and replace it with something else.


It used to be called Google Chat and it's been part of the standard Android load at least as far bar as 2.1.

As far as killing it, it's not so much dying as being rebranded. The new thing is called Hangouts Chat.
 
3 days ago  
I remember one morning I  woke up, grabbed my Pixel 2XL and sat on the toilet to take a shiat.. I was ready to wipe, so I sat my phone down on the sink, and wiped my ass clean.. Washed my hands, grabbed my phone, sat down on the couch.... And... The screen refused to turn on..  The phone was alive, it vibrated to unlock but the screen was dead. Hard resets galore and nothing.. The screen simply decided "I'm done working"..
 
3 days ago  

likefunbutnot: It used to be called Google Chat and it's been part of the standard Android load at least as far bar as 2.1.


Then that device wasn't part of the standard load, because it did not have a chat app. Maybe it was reskinned or something, but that sorta gets into why I don't like the Android ecosystem. Next phone I get is gonna run a real version of Linux, but I'm gonna keep my iPhone 6S until it dies.
 
3 days ago  

bdub77: The last couple of years have been a major integration phase for us because we've combined our Google hardware efforts with Nest. We absorbed the mobile division of HTC. So it's been a lot of stitching together. And we have a wide product portfolio, too. So it's definitely been a building phase. We're super committed to it for the long run. Hardware is hard. And it definitely has components, which take real time to get it right, thinking about underlying silicon or display or camera or any of those tacks. And so we are definitely investing in it, but that timeline. I think we've made a lot of progress.

CEO translation: "We bought those companies for the software, and we're jettisoning our hardware divisions as soon as we can find a buyer."


Not that you're wrong, but i really can't complain about either my Google fiber or my Google mesh routers.

/yes they have all my data
//they probably had most of it before
///it isn't like i trust AT&T with my data more
 
3 days ago  

t3knomanser: Maybe it was reskinned or something, but that sorta gets into why I don't like the Android ecosystem.


The other side to that is that if you like something from another device, you can take it and keep using it. There's no demand that you keep something just because it happens to be what is on your phone when you get it. Yes, there's the caveat that you have to know what you're doing, but that's a lot better than having to accept a lame default.

For the guy who is going to be along in a moment to tell me how much it sucks to have to change a bunch settings on phones: most of my customizations are stored with the backup for my Android launcher of choice, which can be installed on any Android device. Once those are in place, the only things I really have to play with are making sure things like the fingerprint reader work the way I want them. I can queue installs of software I want from the Play Store web site. It only takes me about 10 minutes to set up a new Android device. I can take 10 minutes to make sure my $400 tablet or $1000 phone is just the way I want it. I'm OK with that.
 
3 days ago  

likefunbutnot: Yes, there's the caveat that you have to know what you're doing, but that's a lot better than having to accept a lame default.


The thing is, if I don't care- and I really don't, for the most part- the lame default is fine. I'm not a big phone user. I make calls, I read books. Yes, I read books on my phone. It's fine. For awhile, I used my phone as a digital effects processor for electric instruments (Amplitube is great), but I fell out of that habit as I built up my stomp-box collection.

I have, say, Telegram on my phone, but I rarely use Telegram on my phone. If I want to chat with someone via Telegram, I'm going to go use a computer. Ditto with Slack. Ditto with GroupMe. Mobile messaging sucks shiat.
 
3 days ago  

t3knomanser: The thing is, if I don't care- and I really don't, for the most part- the lame default is fine.


I'm a big believer in having things set up exactly how I want them. I actually do use my devices; I have to be very plugged in for my job.  Since I spend a lot of time outside in warmer months and may or may not have a PC with me, lame defaults just aren't OK. I don't want things on my devices that I'm not going to use.

t3knomanser: Mobile messaging sucks shiat.


You're telling this to someone who blocks SMS to his personal number at the carrier level.
 
3 days ago  

likefunbutnot: t3knomanser: The thing is, if I don't care- and I really don't, for the most part- the lame default is fine.

I'm a big believer in having things set up exactly how I want them. I actually do use my devices; I have to be very plugged in for my job.  Since I spend a lot of time outside in warmer months and may or may not have a PC with me, lame defaults just aren't OK. I don't want things on my devices that I'm not going to use.

t3knomanser: Mobile messaging sucks shiat.

You're telling this to someone who blocks SMS to his personal number at the carrier level.


The point I'm making is that "not giving a shiat" is a perfectly valid way to feel about a gadget. I don't rag on people who use Nano instead of Vim, because I understand not giving a shiat.
 
3 days ago  

t3knomanser: The point I'm making is that "not giving a shiat" is a perfectly valid way to feel about a gadget.


If it doesn't matter, why bother arguing? I actually use my devices and their software. I have reasons for the preferences I have.  To me, you sound like someone who maybe doesn't need a smartphone at all.
 
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