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(CNN)   Are you there God? It's me, a CNN opinion columnist   (edition.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely  
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1906 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2020 at 7:48 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-19 3:15:39 PM  
Do people read articles like this and find comfort in them?

My father, a good and pious man who thanked God every morning for the gift of another day, would have said -- were he alive right now -- that God has a lot to answer for.

Right from the beginning, this just makes my head hurt. "My dad, who thanked his omnipotent master for benevolently not killing him overnight, would have questioned the motivations of his master for all this senseless death and suffering." OK... what does that even mean? Is this just like, an outlet for impotent rage for people who are compelled to accept that God causes all human suffering and because God does it, it's necessary and we just need to accept it? I seriously don't get it. The whole article seems to dance around the idea of questioning the omnipotent master but then settles on "well, we need funerals to heal so I guess we just have to keep believing in God!"

The older and more distant I get from religion, the weirder and more nonsensical it seems.
 
2020-05-19 3:42:22 PM  
This is not the first time bad things are happening to people.
 
2020-05-19 3:43:44 PM  
Confidence in God's healing power grows when one witnesses doctors, nurses and first responders selflessly risking their lives to heal others.

If watching other human beings risk their lives as they struggle to help others through a terrible, frightening time causes you to praise God instead of the human beings you're witnessing behaving bravely and/or selflessly, you should consider the possibility that you're an utterly useless human being who deserves neither divinity nor selflessness from others in your life.
 
2020-05-19 3:46:09 PM  
"Amongst thousands of persons, hardly one strives for perfection; and amongst those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows me in truth."

Bhagavad Gita
 
2020-05-19 4:39:49 PM  

Action Replay Nick: Do people read articles like this and find comfort in them?

My father, a good and pious man who thanked God every morning for the gift of another day, would have said -- were he alive right now -- that God has a lot to answer for.

Right from the beginning, this just makes my head hurt. "My dad, who thanked his omnipotent master for benevolently not killing him overnight, would have questioned the motivations of his master for all this senseless death and suffering." OK... what does that even mean? Is this just like, an outlet for impotent rage for people who are compelled to accept that God causes all human suffering and because God does it, it's necessary and we just need to accept it? I seriously don't get it. The whole article seems to dance around the idea of questioning the omnipotent master but then settles on "well, we need funerals to heal so I guess we just have to keep believing in God!"

The older and more distant I get from religion, the weirder and more nonsensical it seems.


It keeps getting weirder and weirder.  I was raised a staunch Catholic.  A true believer until the age 15 and every year if seems crazier and crazier.  A few years ago I thought "Jesus died for our sins" makes absolutely no f$cking sense.  The most foundational aspect of Christianity makes no f$cking sense.

a) he did not really die
b) he killed himself which is a sin
c) or, he didn't voluntarily kill himself which means it wasn't a sacrifice
d) sin makes no sense
e) how could I have sinned before I existed
f) does an act of suicide or infanticide or the first part of a zombie ritual erase
g) who was the arbiter of the deal that erased the sin, suggests an authority higher than God and Jesus (also that God gave his only son - suggests an even higher power that limited God to only one son, also, he did not f$cking give his son, he lent him to people who died 2,000 years ago), plus it wasn't really his son, it was himself all long because f$ck you - that's why
 
2020-05-19 4:49:00 PM  
FTA

"So many hopes for a better life, destroyed by pandemic. Such an incalculable amount of trust -- in government, in the future, and in God -- undermined or irreparably lost."

That's assuming that our trust in government had not been undermined or lost previously.

Did he just wake from a coma?
 
2020-05-19 7:49:58 PM  

Mugato: This is not the first time bad things are happening to people.


BUT IT IS THE FIRST TIME BAD THINGS ARE HAPPENING TO MEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Aside from sun burns and seeing videos of myself dancing at weddings.
 
2020-05-19 7:52:23 PM  
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 7:57:46 PM  

Mugato: This is not the first time bad things are happening to people.


Yeah, religious people don't understand that if there is a God/higher power/deity out there, it isn't a being that watches the behaviors of everyone with the microscope they think. Most likely, this higher power created everything and let it run its natural course. It's totally possible to be a creationist and a scientist. Just consider all of creation a science project. Maybe there IS a power that created it all, but that 'power' is at most, watching how this particular scenario plays out and taking notes, or the 'higher power' equivalent of taking notes.

That's what bugs me. Even if there is some kind of judgement when you die, you aren't going to be under a microscope most likely, it would be a general "Were you a good person or a bad person overall?" type of thing, as opposed to "Well, you almost got into heave, but that one time in 3rd grade, you stole a pack of gum from the store.".

Like you said, this is not the first time bad things are happening to people. And it won't be the last. Bad shiat happens, that's how it works.
 
2020-05-19 7:57:47 PM  
If you're waiting for God to answer for bad things happening, the backlog is really long, guy.
 
2020-05-19 7:57:54 PM  
If someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!
 
2020-05-19 7:59:53 PM  

Action Replay Nick: My father, a good and pious man who thanked God every morning for the gift of another day, would have said -- were he alive right now -- that God has a lot to answer for.


Indeed he does. Auschwitz prisoners put him on trial and found him guilty

Stephen Fry also thinks God has much to answer for

Yahweh is an asshole. Maybe they shoulda stuck with El.
 
2020-05-19 8:00:34 PM  
You ask why God would let anyone die of COVID-19.  Perhaps you should ask why God would let anyone die.
 
2020-05-19 8:01:35 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 8:01:42 PM  
Letter From God
Dear Humanity: I don't mean to be rude, but would you all be so kind as to shut the f**k up? Even in my omnipotence, I lack the means to express how deeply, profoundly bored I am with you and your endless snivelling. Your hubris and sense of entitlement boggles even my infinite mind. I should have let you perish the last time you screwed up, and you can be sure I'll never lift another of my mighty fingers to save you from your own stupidity again.
Just as an example, it has recently come to my attention that, among other absurdities, many of you actually think I care what you do to each other with your naughty bits. Are you for real?
Heres some truth for you: You are not "divine beings" - not in any sense of the word. You are smelly, quarrelsome, incredibly vain hairless apes. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I created you (to be fair, the Evolve-o-matic is a rather unreliable piece of hardware, and you can't always predict what it will spit out), but let's just say that you are far from my best work.
Get the f**k over yourselves.
And as far as prayer - I put that on voicemail a long time ago - and I just dump it every millenia or so.
Do you seriously think I'm going to listen to that crap? "Make Julio truly love me!" - "Cure my mother's cancer!" - "End war and hunger!"
On an on and on until I want to fry your whole friggin' planet with a supernova.
And that last one REALLY pisses me off. You want to end war? How about you stop killing each other over s***t a dog would know better than to fight over, you jackwagons?
You want to end hunger - how 'bout you give each other some food now and then, you stupid bastards? It's not like I didn't give you abundance far beyond any of your petty, pointless needs.
Seriously - I don't f**king care, and quit caring long ago.
I gave you everything you need to establish this "Heaven"* place you're always yapping about, all by yourselves. So do it, you lazy c*******rs!!!

* As far as "Heaven" - do you honestly think I'm going to bring any of you up here to live with me after you kick it? So you can f**k up my home the way you've f**ked up yours? Think again.
And no, Lucifer doesn't want you either. He's a man of wealth and taste, for shiat's sake! Do you think he wants to hang around with a bunch of louse-ridden monkeys that can't find their asses with both hands in broad daylight?
How 'bout "No".
I gave you a good long lifetime - make something out of it, like the one or two percent of you who are worth shiat already do.
In conclusion - just shut the f**k up. I'm not listening.
Sincerely yours, God.
 
2020-05-19 8:03:16 PM  
God does have a lot to answer for. First and foremost: why does he need a starship?
 
2020-05-19 8:03:30 PM  
Who the fark are you? God doesn't have a farking thing to "answer for". He gave you plenty. It's not His farking fault you chose to farking ignore it.
 
2020-05-19 8:03:33 PM  

mrshowrules: It keeps getting weirder and weirder.


Jesus had a bad weekend. As the person required to commit the last unforgivable sin and suffer in hell for eternity in order to make the prophecies work, Judas is the real hero of the story.
 
2020-05-19 8:03:33 PM  
This is from a recent NYTimes article on recruiting for the Jehovah's Witnesses during the pandemic...
Fark user imageView Full Size


I can't help but read that as, "People are so anxious, worried and uncertain right now, and we can't take advantage of their mental state to manipulate them into joining our belief system."
 
2020-05-19 8:04:16 PM  
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2020-05-19 8:05:53 PM  

transporter_ii: [Fark user image 800x624]


You forgot E: "Aware that it's a complete hoax by the Demoncrats to tank the economy so Trump loses the election and they can take over and make us all worship pedo-Satan."

Because according to a bunch of people on social media, that's the answer.
 
2020-05-19 8:06:05 PM  

Breaker Moran: "Amongst thousands of persons, hardly one strives for perfection; and amongst those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows me in truth."

Bhagavad Gita


There's a great text. Pretty much the first significant lesson is Krishna telling Arjuna, "So what if they're family. Kill 'em all. Let their merit sort them out."
 
2020-05-19 8:06:26 PM  
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2020-05-19 8:09:43 PM  
All that just for the author to say his contribution has been attending a group of religious leaders for thoughts and prayers. Glad that buys PPE and stocks the food pantries. I guess?

/ I can feel the love already. Wait, no, that's just gas.
 
2020-05-19 8:14:53 PM  
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This was the part of the article that gave me pause. The priest is wearing a face mask....over his EYES. Because it's more important to cater to the confessional anonymity of folks embarrassed that they touched themselves inappropriately in the shower than it is not becoming a drive-thru disease vector.
 
2020-05-19 8:17:29 PM  

qorkfiend: Who the fark are you? God doesn't have a farking thing to "answer for". He gave you plenty. It's not His farking fault you chose to farking ignore it.


Yeah! Where else would you get malaria and tsunamis and shiat? God provides!
 
2020-05-19 8:21:03 PM  
Religious belief is a mental disorder.
 
2020-05-19 8:25:39 PM  

Your_Midnight_Man: Religious belief is a mental disorder.


There is excellent research that suggests this is entirely incorrect. Our brains have evolved to hold religious beliefs. Pick up a copy of "Supernatural Selection: How Religion Evolved." It's a good read, and goes into a lot of detail about how intelligence developed, and now supernatural beliefs played a key role in that development.

Doesn't mean I'm suggesting that religion is factual...just that believing in supernatural beings is easy for most people because our brains evolved that way.
 
2020-05-19 8:29:33 PM  

lostcat: Your_Midnight_Man: Religious belief is a mental disorder.

There is excellent research that suggests this is entirely incorrect. Our brains have evolved to hold religious beliefs. Pick up a copy of "Supernatural Selection: How Religion Evolved." It's a good read, and goes into a lot of detail about how intelligence developed, and now supernatural beliefs played a key role in that development.

Doesn't mean I'm suggesting that religion is factual...just that believing in supernatural beings is easy for most people because our brains evolved that way.


I suspect it's at least partially because all the early humans that took the time to reflect on correlation versus causation did so at the cost of being eaten by lions.
 
2020-05-19 8:30:44 PM  

mrshowrules: e) how could I have sinned before I existed


The premise there is that because your parents had sex (which is odd that it's a sin given that they were probably married and even odder that it's a sin given that people have been charged by god to go forth and multiple) and that act made you guilty of original sin because the christian god really holds a grudge for a long time.

All that being written, it's clear to me that your clone would not be guilty of original sin, nor would any test tube baby.
 
2020-05-19 8:32:13 PM  
Religious people throw out their moral compass and embrace the embodiment of what Christianity is supposed to stand against and then when God sends a plague you don't know why?


That and it's not like there hasn't been any other plagues, famines, outbreaks, wars, genocides, atrocities, icapades over the centuries...it's just that suddenly one finally hits home and then it matters.
 
2020-05-19 8:32:48 PM  

lostcat: Our brains have evolved to hold religious beliefs.


If what you're really trying to say is that stupid people will believe anything, then you've proven your own point.
 
2020-05-19 8:38:18 PM  
Once you ask where did God come from and the answer is he's always there, it's pretty much just dumb from there
 
2020-05-19 8:43:11 PM  
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2020-05-19 8:44:39 PM  

Metastatic Capricorn: Maybe they shoulda stuck with El.


All hail Egdod!
 
2020-05-19 8:46:37 PM  
I realize religion started as a way of explaining the unknown and offered some comfort when people passed away, but it quickly evolved into a tool of control and oppression. It's disturbing and sad that in a supposedly modern society, not believing in a judgemental, voyeuristic and sadistic invisible sky wizard is considered strange.
 
2020-05-19 8:57:19 PM  

emtwo: lostcat: Our brains have evolved to hold religious beliefs.

If what you're really trying to say is that stupid people will believe anything, then you've proven your own point.


I'm an atheist. I know that the knee-jerk reaction of most atheists is "Religion is for dumb people who believe anything." I enjoy reading books written by anthropologists, sociologists, and psychologists who are exploring how our minds developed from simple primate behavior to our current state. One of the books I read recently did a great job of illustrating how the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the development of supernatural beliefs. It may not fit in with your world view, but the research is sound and well supported.
 
2020-05-19 9:03:37 PM  
Your god created a hell for people to suffer in for eternity when oblivion is an option. I'd start with judging your god's morality there.
 
2020-05-19 9:04:14 PM  
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him goD?"    - Epicurus (341-270BC)

/Why do so many various and sundry sky wizards get a pass for allowing so much suffering?
//Superstition seems a poor reason to accept constantly passing the buck for the worst things
///Who the Hell wants to live forever??

Please Let's Be Careful Out There! And Love our Dogs and Cats and so on, goDs, maybe not so much
 
2020-05-19 9:06:07 PM  

mrshowrules: Action Replay Nick: Do people read articles like this and find comfort in them?

My father, a good and pious man who thanked God every morning for the gift of another day, would have said -- were he alive right now -- that God has a lot to answer for.

Right from the beginning, this just makes my head hurt. "My dad, who thanked his omnipotent master for benevolently not killing him overnight, would have questioned the motivations of his master for all this senseless death and suffering." OK... what does that even mean? Is this just like, an outlet for impotent rage for people who are compelled to accept that God causes all human suffering and because God does it, it's necessary and we just need to accept it? I seriously don't get it. The whole article seems to dance around the idea of questioning the omnipotent master but then settles on "well, we need funerals to heal so I guess we just have to keep believing in God!"

The older and more distant I get from religion, the weirder and more nonsensical it seems.

It keeps getting weirder and weirder.  I was raised a staunch Catholic.  A true believer until the age 15 and every year if seems crazier and crazier.  A few years ago I thought "Jesus died for our sins" makes absolutely no f$cking sense.  The most foundational aspect of Christianity makes no f$cking sense.

a) he did not really die
b) he killed himself which is a sin
c) or, he didn't voluntarily kill himself which means it wasn't a sacrifice
d) sin makes no sense
e) how could I have sinned before I existed
f) does an act of suicide or infanticide or the first part of a zombie ritual erase
g) who was the arbiter of the deal that erased the sin, suggests an authority higher than God and Jesus (also that God gave his only son - suggests an even higher power that limited God to only one son, also, he did not f$cking give his son, he lent him to people who died 2,000 years ago), plus it wasn't really his son, it was himself all long because f$ck you - that's why


For centuries, the Christian Bullshiater's Association have been convincing rubes far and wide that some boot-strappy go-getter named Noah wandered the earth and gathered up two Rheses macaques, two Mandrills, rwo Panamanian white-faced Capucjins, two Emperor tamarins, two Lion-tailed macaques, two Proboscis monkeys, two Japanese macaques, two Dusky leaf monkeys, two Guinea baboons, two bald uakaris, two Barbari macaques, two Hamadryas baboons, two Common marmosets, two Central American squirrel monkeys, two Gee's golden langurs, two Black lion tamarins, two Black spider-handed monkeys, two Golden lion tamarins, two Colombian white-faced capuchins, two Cotton-top tamarins, two Red-shanked doucs, two Chacma baboons, two Northern plains gray langurs, two Pygmy marmosets, two Olive baboons, two Common squirrel monkeys, two Geladas, two Black howlers, two Red-faced spider monkeys, two Clebes crested macaques, two Golden snub-nosed monkeys, two Green monkeys, two Southern pig-tailed macaques, two Golden monkeys, two Formosan rock macaques, two White-faced sakis, two Velvet monkeys, two Yellow baboons, two Crab-eating macaques, two Mantled Guereza, two Venezuelan Red howlers, two Drill, two Three-striped night monkeys... ... ...

Shall I go on?
 
2020-05-19 9:24:25 PM  
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I wanted to be one of the 144,000. Somewhere along the way, I asked my sister and an elder what happens when we reach 144,000? What about the rest of the followers that are just as devoted, studied, knocked on doors, led good lives? I never got an answer from any Witness. I stopped studying when I was a teenager and I chased girls instead. Because they are real. Evil sometimes, but real.
In my thirties, I wanted to give the Witnesses another try. I was shunned when I asked if we reached 144,000 yet. No answer from the elders. They asked my sister if I was gay because I'm single. I just left a woman that was too friendly with other men. My sister didn't speak up for me.
Jehovah later blessed her with two lesbian daughters. Big J has a sense of humor.
 
2020-05-19 9:35:28 PM  

lostcat: I'm an atheist. I know that the knee-jerk reaction of most atheists is "Religion is for dumb people who believe anything." I enjoy reading books written by anthropologists, sociologists, and psychologists who are exploring how our minds developed from simple primate behavior to our current state. One of the books I read recently did a great job of illustrating how the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the development of supernatural beliefs. It may not fit in with your world view, but the research is sound and well supported.


The research is not sound and well supported. I am very familiar with Rossano's work, and I have high regard for Evolutionary Psychology: The Science of Human Behavior and Evolution in particular. But he has a huge blind spot when it comes to religion, and his works on that issue suffer from severe lapses in reason and judgment.

The thesis invariably boils down to this: humans survive crises by being social and behaving socially. Religion was, at various periods of time, the primary social activity. Therefore, religion is/was necessary to our evolution.

And that's like saying that I need food to survive, and on March 4th of 2002 I went to Arby's to get food, therefore Arby's is necessary to human evolution and survival. QED.

And he only ever makes vague, half-hearted attempts at explaining what makes religion uniquely qualified to fill this role. Mostly he just ignore that question, probably because some part of him knows that it's not actually uniquely qualified.

And that's the same argumentative trap that you're falling into now, with whatever source you're citing for the claim that "the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the development of supernatural beliefs."

"Because we did something, it was therefore the only thing we could do and we could have done nothing else," is logically untenable for reasons I shouldn't have to explain.

The takeaway from Rossano's work should be that we solve problems by working together. The idea that religion is a necessity for people to work together is bullshiat. The idea that our "brains evolved to hold religious beliefs" is just outright laughable.
 
2020-05-19 9:42:45 PM  
I lay awake at night, afraid a member of my family may befall such a horrible calamity in life they become a CNN opinion columnist.
 
2020-05-19 9:44:54 PM  

emtwo: The research is not sound and well supported.


I should amend that slightly. The research is often sound and well supported, but the claims it is used to make are not.
 
2020-05-19 9:55:07 PM  

emtwo: lostcat: I'm an atheist. I know that the knee-jerk reaction of most atheists is "Religion is for dumb people who believe anything." I enjoy reading books written by anthropologists, sociologists, and psychologists who are exploring how our minds developed from simple primate behavior to our current state. One of the books I read recently did a great job of illustrating how the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the development of supernatural beliefs. It may not fit in with your world view, but the research is sound and well supported.

The research is not sound and well supported. I am very familiar with Rossano's work, and I have high regard for Evolutionary Psychology: The Science of Human Behavior and Evolution in particular. But he has a huge blind spot when it comes to religion, and his works on that issue suffer from severe lapses in reason and judgment.

The thesis invariably boils down to this: humans survive crises by being social and behaving socially. Religion was, at various periods of time, the primary social activity. Therefore, religion is/was necessary to our evolution.

And that's like saying that I need food to survive, and on March 4th of 2002 I went to Arby's to get food, therefore Arby's is necessary to human evolution and survival. QED.

And he only ever makes vague, half-hearted attempts at explaining what makes religion uniquely qualified to fill this role. Mostly he just ignore that question, probably because some part of him knows that it's not actually uniquely qualified.

And that's the same argumentative trap that you're falling into now, with whatever source you're citing for the claim that "the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the develop ...


So you agree with the statement that "Religious belief is a mental disorder"?
 
2020-05-19 9:59:11 PM  

lostcat: emtwo: lostcat: I'm an atheist. I know that the knee-jerk reaction of most atheists is "Religion is for dumb people who believe anything." I enjoy reading books written by anthropologists, sociologists, and psychologists who are exploring how our minds developed from simple primate behavior to our current state. One of the books I read recently did a great job of illustrating how the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the development of supernatural beliefs. It may not fit in with your world view, but the research is sound and well supported.

The research is not sound and well supported. I am very familiar with Rossano's work, and I have high regard for Evolutionary Psychology: The Science of Human Behavior and Evolution in particular. But he has a huge blind spot when it comes to religion, and his works on that issue suffer from severe lapses in reason and judgment.

The thesis invariably boils down to this: humans survive crises by being social and behaving socially. Religion was, at various periods of time, the primary social activity. Therefore, religion is/was necessary to our evolution.

And that's like saying that I need food to survive, and on March 4th of 2002 I went to Arby's to get food, therefore Arby's is necessary to human evolution and survival. QED.

And he only ever makes vague, half-hearted attempts at explaining what makes religion uniquely qualified to fill this role. Mostly he just ignore that question, probably because some part of him knows that it's not actually uniquely qualified.

And that's the same argumentative trap that you're falling into now, with whatever source you're citing for the claim that "the "shaman" position in most communities played a key role in the development of our ability to think beyond basic need fulfillment. It's fair to suggest that we owe human intelligence to the ...


Yes.

In fact, allow me to provide the peer-reviewed scientific study that proved it:

Biological and Cognitive Underpinnings of Religious Fundamentalism
 
2020-05-19 10:01:23 PM  

Todorojo: Yes.

In fact, allow me to provide the peer-reviewed scientific study that proved it:

Biological and Cognitive Underpinnings of Religious Fundamentalism


I'm not going to pay to read the full article, but not even the abstract claims to draw the conclusion that you folks are using it to support.
 
2020-05-19 10:01:56 PM  

lostcat: So you agree with the statement that "Religious belief is a mental disorder"?


What?
 
d23 [TotalFark] [BareFark] [OhFark]
2020-05-19 10:06:21 PM  
Roger Waters - What God Wants, Pt. I (2015) (Digital Video)
Youtube YRWRRBX3TB0
 
2020-05-19 10:07:48 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: I lay awake at night, afraid a member of my family may befall such a horrible calamity in life they become a CNN opinion columnist.


No one in your family is going to become a CNN opinion columnist.
Infowars, maybe.
 
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