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(My Fox 8 Greensboro)   People are having 'COVID-19 parties' to build up immunity. Stupid, Asinine and Facepalm tags all on ventilators, Dumbass tag in ICU   (myfox8.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Infection, Existential quantification, deadly virus, Monday, health expert FOX8, Immunity, Immune system, Universal quantification  
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2487 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 May 2020 at 10:20 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



166 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-05-19 8:59:06 AM  
Don't care, had sex?
 
2020-05-19 9:01:30 AM  
Oh that makes sense. I'm sure that won't backfire at all.
 
2020-05-19 9:20:51 AM  
A nurse practitioner with Novant Health confirmed these "COVID-19 parties" are happening in the Triad


see trump said it was all the chinese's fault - they have their gangs spreading it now!
 
2020-05-19 9:36:39 AM  
There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.
 
2020-05-19 9:59:43 AM  
I wonder how many of them will die from this? Death is the ultimate immunity, after all.
 
2020-05-19 10:08:47 AM  
Just as long as they stay faaaaaaaar away from me (and the rest of us sane folk) and isolate amongst each other, we can just let Darwin sort this out.
 
2020-05-19 10:09:50 AM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


I blame antipathy towards scientific knowledge.
 
2020-05-19 10:23:05 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 10:24:11 AM  
It's just like measles, murder hornet measles.
 
2020-05-19 10:25:01 AM  
Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.
 
2020-05-19 10:25:09 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 10:25:41 AM  
Every last one of them needs to be executed in a humane way.
 
2020-05-19 10:26:13 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 10:26:22 AM  
I have Trump-humping relatives in NC - I hope they got to attend.
 
2020-05-19 10:27:33 AM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


Came here for this, leaving dejectedly.

Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted. I'm going to have to stay home for months past this, because assholes couldn't stay home when they were asked.

I know I'm not supposed to feel like this, but, by all that's good in the world, I'm starting to hate people in general.
 
2020-05-19 10:27:37 AM  
This is a classic anti-vaxx trope. Measles parties are old and busted, Covid-19 parties the new hotness.
 
2020-05-19 10:27:51 AM  
Good luck with that.
 
2020-05-19 10:29:55 AM  

TotallyRealNotFake: [Fark user image 425x685]


not sure what has to do with thread?

and to the image... well good thing bily bob cant bring his cool guns over the atlantic.
 
2020-05-19 10:30:37 AM  
"Look around you.  For one of the 50 people in this room, this will be their last party."
 
2020-05-19 10:30:40 AM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


Actually, I think the data is in on that, just not via a fully controlled study.
There's been enough people who tested positive, got sick and recovered running around in the world that if there was no protection we'd have lots of examples of people getting hit a second time.

The real question, is what percentage of people who get infected can get sick a second time. So far, within the timeframe we are able to examine, the answer is that it must be a small percentage.

Now there are examples of people showing positive PCR tests again after they had multiple negative PCR tests. So far, in the cases where this was followed up on, these people were not infectious and the PCR was likely detecting dead virus that was being shed from damaged lung tissue. That's the good and bad of the PCR test, it's very sensitive and able to detect both living and dead viruses. (for definitions of "alive" that mean a virus that can infect a  cell and reproduce)
 
2020-05-19 10:32:32 AM  
what do you call 90,000 dead americans from covid?

a good start.

badum tssh.
 
2020-05-19 10:32:38 AM  
Here's a link presumably to the same content that works in the EU.

People are having 'COVID-19 parties' to build up immunity. Experts say they are putting lives at ris
Youtube 6voxGELQ-OQ
 
2020-05-19 10:32:41 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 10:33:33 AM  

LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.


There's a very significant portion of this country, including many people here on Fark, who are absolutely convinced that if you get over a viral infection immunity is guaranteed, permanent, and means you can no longer be a carrier and spread it.

None of those things are inherently true. That's a kindergarten-level view of the concept and it's terrifying that so many people apparently stopped learning about biology in grade school.

You may not gain any immunity at all.

If you do gain immunity, it is extremely unlikely to be permanent, and we don't know yet how long it will last (smart money is on 6 to 12 months based on similar viruses).

Any immunity you gain does not guarantee you cannot become an asymptomatic carrier. It is entirely possible to be able to sufficiently fight it yourself that you don't get sick, but still have a dense enough infection to spread it around.

And, of course, none of this takes into account that you can get sick and wind up spreading a mutated version nobody is immune to yet no matter how strong an immunity you develop to the original strain.

People are farkkng stupid though, so... party on, morons.
 
2020-05-19 10:34:32 AM  
It's the best use of the lockdown.  If these people are unemployed they're guaranteed a sweet extra 600 dollars a week until july.  Even if they react poorly and have one of these illnesses that lasts a month, they'll be able to recuperate, at home, with no need to go to work until the infection is over.  After that they'll have some form of immunity, which is our only hope at the moment.

Imagine you spend two months in lockdown, you don't get it, the lockdown ends, you have to go back to work, and THEN you get it.  Now wouldn't you see those two months in lockdown as having been poorly spent?
 
2020-05-19 10:35:12 AM  
c1.staticflickr.comView Full Size

media.makeameme.orgView Full Size

 
2020-05-19 10:35:35 AM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


Yeah, that reminds me of the time that Empress Maria Theresa visited the coffin of her daughter-in-law who had just died of smallpox, and forced several of her daughters to accompany her.  And then some of the daughters caught smallpox from that exposure, and some of them died, and some of them lived but were so facially disfigured from the pox that no one would marry them.
 
2020-05-19 10:38:51 AM  
thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 10:39:28 AM  

TotallyRealNotFake: [Fark user image 425x685]


Did that jackass put his Bible on the ground?
 
2020-05-19 10:41:15 AM  
Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/op​i​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html
 
2020-05-19 10:43:03 AM  

Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html


This is parody, right?
 
2020-05-19 10:44:13 AM  

RussianPotato: TotallyRealNotFake: [Fark user image 425x685]

Did that jackass put his Bible on the ground?


Damn. Now he has to burn it where it lay.
 
2020-05-19 10:44:22 AM  

Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html


Told you so...
 
2020-05-19 10:45:07 AM  

jso2897: Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

This is parody, right?


No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work.  Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.
 
2020-05-19 10:45:42 AM  
 
2020-05-19 10:45:48 AM  

LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.


It absolutely dramatically increases your resistance, if not conferring at least total temporary immunity. There are almost 5 million cases worldwide to date. That's one out of every 1,500 people. Assuming that a person who has already had it is as likely as anyone else to get it, that means we should statistically expect 5,000,000/1,500 = 3,333 people to have caught it twice. There have, at most, been a few anecdotes of people catching it twice, and even those are thought to likely have been false positives because the tests were detecting old viral matter from the previous infection.
 
2020-05-19 10:45:50 AM  

Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html


Except the fact that scientists aren't certain that that having Covid antibodies make you immune. There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid. Covid parties are a bad idea.
 
2020-05-19 10:45:56 AM  
If you've had it, you're no longer shedding virus. If you've had a serious case, you were in no shape to party. Catch-19.
 
2020-05-19 10:47:45 AM  

FormlessOne: I know I'm not supposed to feel like this, but, by all that's good in the world, I'm starting to hate people in general.


I've always been misanthropic. 2016 merely sealed it.
 
2020-05-19 10:48:15 AM  
Tommy Moo: [...]. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

All of the boomers and Gen Xers who will be getting shingles later in life remember the chicken pox parties
 
2020-05-19 10:49:43 AM  

Father_Jack: TotallyRealNotFake: [Fark user image 425x685]

not sure what has to do with thread?

and to the image... well good thing bily bob cant bring his cool guns over the atlantic.


That pretty much sums up the mentality of every MAGA Hat wearing Ammosexual in America thoughts on what the world thinks of them.

The same people who are having Coronavirus Parties are the same type of people that pic represents.
 
2020-05-19 10:49:52 AM  

eddie_irvine: This is a classic anti-vaxx trope. Measles parties are old and busted, Covid-19 parties the new hotness.


We have a vaccine for measles. All bets are off for this shiat. Ben Franklin had an opportunity to expose his son to smallpox when he was a boy, but he chose not to because it was risky. His son later died of smallpox:

"In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen."

The fact is that we aren't guaranteed to get a successful vaccine for COVID-19, not this year, not ever. It might well be reckless and causing more harm than good for people to attempt to build their immunity to it, but it's not malicious or even unprecedented behavior. If you could be exposed to the virus at a level that was somehow guaranteed not to progress to a full symptomatic infection and leave you with immunity afterward, wouldn't you take that opportunity? There are risks either way.
 
2020-05-19 10:51:12 AM  

skozlaw: LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.

There's a very significant portion of this country, including many people here on Fark, who are absolutely convinced that if you get over a viral infection immunity is guaranteed, permanent, and means you can no longer be a carrier and spread it.

None of those things are inherently true. That's a kindergarten-level view of the concept and it's terrifying that so many people apparently stopped learning about biology in grade school.

You may not gain any immunity at all.

If you do gain immunity, it is extremely unlikely to be permanent, and we don't know yet how long it will last (smart money is on 6 to 12 months based on similar viruses).

Any immunity you gain does not guarantee you cannot become an asymptomatic carrier. It is entirely possible to be able to sufficiently fight it yourself that you don't get sick, but still have a dense enough infection to spread it around.

And, of course, none of this takes into account that you can get sick and wind up spreading a mutated version nobody is immune to yet no matter how strong an immunity you develop to the original strain.

People are farkkng stupid though, so... party on, morons.


I have just recovered, having tested positive 4/22 and tested negative yesterday. I work at an intensely busy co-op grocery store and will be returning to work in a day or so.

I fully agree with you, I have no idea how "immune" I am at this point and if so, for how long. I do know that, having tested negative, I am not carrying it. I simply no longer have it.

It was a 3 week ordeal, no hospital needed, but it was no picnic. I waited 8 days with no symptoms before testing negative. I will turn 55 in June and am a former lifetime smoker, (I vape now).

I still can't believe what idiots some people are; you do not want this thing.
 
2020-05-19 10:51:34 AM  

Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html


The virus is self-replecating and there's no way to predict what someones threshold is prior to exposure. A low viral load can easily turn into a full blown critical case in a couple weeks. The only sure thing that intentional exposure would accomplish is to help spread the virus faster.
 
2020-05-19 10:51:36 AM  
If I have a party during covid 19, but it is just for shenanigans, is that a covid party, or is that just for parties with the intent to catch covid?
 
2020-05-19 10:53:17 AM  

rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.


AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.
 
2020-05-19 10:53:24 AM  
God, now I'm rooting for Covid-19 to continue to
mutate all Freiza like, "you haven't yet seen my
final form", all summer and fall.
 
2020-05-19 10:54:36 AM  

rebelyell2006: jso2897: Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

This is parody, right?

No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work.  Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.


Yea but chicken pox pies are delicious
 
2020-05-19 10:55:36 AM  

eddie_irvine: Except the fact that scientists aren't certain that that having Covid antibodies make you immune. There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid. Covid parties are a bad idea.


If COVID antibodies didn't confer immunity, there would be literally thousands of documented cases of people getting the virus twice. There have been, at most, a few anecdotes, with several of them possibly being due to false positive tests. There is no way that SARS-COV-2 is suddenly the first magical virus in our billion year history with viruses to not engender any immunity from future infections.
 
2020-05-19 10:57:24 AM  

rebelyell2006: jso2897: Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off. Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future. Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

This is parody, right?

No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work.  Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.


A)  It's small pox, you uneducated dolt.

B)  That was how it was done.  Read a book.

C)  Yes, the viral load was the key part of it.  Before the vaccine was invented, doctors would take smallpox scabs, powder them, and blow a small portion up the patient's nose.  Fatality rate was 3-5%.  Which is much better than smallpox's normal 30-50% mortality rate.  And the only difference was the viral load.

D)  These small pox scabs are still floating around after all these years.  They're usually kept in small boxes and wrapped in tissue.  Man, it's fun to see the hazmat guys scramble every few years when one of these is found.

/reading is fun
//but i guess hard for some people.

eddie_irvine: There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid.


No, that's not evidence.  You have anecdotes from a single country - south korea - about maybe a dozen people out of millions who retested positive.  And the general consensus is those people had a malingering infection the whole time.  Considering this was only seen in a single country it highly suggests a flaw in their methods and nothing more.
 
2020-05-19 10:59:41 AM  
Wow. Americans really don't want to be able to travel outside the US any time soon, do they?

They're literally killing the tourism and travel industries.
 
2020-05-19 10:59:53 AM  

Father_Jack: what do you call 90,000 dead americans from covid?

a good start.

badum tssh.


Fark you.
 
2020-05-19 11:00:25 AM  

Tommy Moo: eddie_irvine: Except the fact that scientists aren't certain that that having Covid antibodies make you immune. There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid. Covid parties are a bad idea.

If COVID antibodies didn't confer immunity, there would be literally thousands of documented cases of people getting the virus twice. There have been, at most, a few anecdotes, with several of them possibly being due to false positive tests. There is no way that SARS-COV-2 is suddenly the first magical virus in our billion year history with viruses to not engender any immunity from future infections.


Even HIV creates antibodies. The reason that your immune system can't then get rid of it is that it destroys the cells that would eliminate the virus. But the antibodies are there - indeed, this is how they test for HIV.
 
2020-05-19 11:02:35 AM  

Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.

AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.


I go to work every weekday, I wear masks, use hand sanitizer, wash my hands, use napkins or tissues to handle doors and touch screens, don't touch my face or pick my nose, keep six feet between myself and others, etc etc.  Allergies are acting up a bit because of tree pollen, but no colds or random bugs or sinus infections, thanks to the precautions I have been taking.  But not everybody can and not everybody will do those things, hence the Stay At Home and the mandatory mask orders.  That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.
 
2020-05-19 11:03:38 AM  
I guess it is Tommy's turn to spout the bullshiat red hat virus talking points.
 
2020-05-19 11:03:40 AM  

aukie: skozlaw: LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.

There's a very significant portion of this country, including many people here on Fark, who are absolutely convinced that if you get over a viral infection immunity is guaranteed, permanent, and means you can no longer be a carrier and spread it.

None of those things are inherently true. That's a kindergarten-level view of the concept and it's terrifying that so many people apparently stopped learning about biology in grade school.

You may not gain any immunity at all.

If you do gain immunity, it is extremely unlikely to be permanent, and we don't know yet how long it will last (smart money is on 6 to 12 months based on similar viruses).

Any immunity you gain does not guarantee you cannot become an asymptomatic carrier. It is entirely possible to be able to sufficiently fight it yourself that you don't get sick, but still have a dense enough infection to spread it around.

And, of course, none of this takes into account that you can get sick and wind up spreading a mutated version nobody is immune to yet no matter how strong an immunity you develop to the original strain.

People are farkkng stupid though, so... party on, morons.

I have just recovered, having tested positive 4/22 and tested negative yesterday. I work at an intensely busy co-op grocery store and will be returning to work in a day or so.

I fully agree with you, I have no idea how "immune" I am at this point and if so, for how long. I do know that, having tested negative, I am not carrying it. I simply no longer have it.

It was a 3 week ordeal, no hospital needed, but it was no picnic. I waited 8 days with no symptoms before testing negative. I will turn 55 in June and am a former lifetime smoker, (I vape now).

I still can't believe what idiots some people are; you do not want this thing.


Glad that you recovered and are doing well!
 
2020-05-19 11:03:50 AM  
They....know that this can kill them and / or screw them up spectacularly for decades, yeah?

They also know that immunity is not guaranteed if you manage to survive?
 
2020-05-19 11:04:20 AM  

FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.


I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.
 
2020-05-19 11:05:52 AM  

Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.


So the 90,000 dead in two months is less deadly than the typical 40,000-60,000 across an entire year?
 
2020-05-19 11:06:18 AM  

Father_Jack: what do you call 90,000 dead americans from covid?

a good start.

badum tssh.


I lol'd
 
2020-05-19 11:07:03 AM  

Skeleton Man: Father_Jack: what do you call 90,000 dead americans from covid?

a good start.

badum tssh.

Fark you.


Agreed.  Deaths are terrible, especially when they could have been prevented in the first place.
 
2020-05-19 11:07:40 AM  
That gov apparently needs to give them concrete examples - show how the 'Smith family birthday party ended up w/ Grandma Smith dead 14 days later'.
 
2020-05-19 11:07:45 AM  
A nurse practitioner with Novant Health confirmed these "COVID-19 parties" are happening in the Triad.

Where is this "Triad" and what is wrong with their water supply?
 
2020-05-19 11:08:36 AM  

Skeleton Man: aukie: skozlaw: LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.

There's a very significant portion of this country, including many people here on Fark, who are absolutely convinced that if you get over a viral infection immunity is guaranteed, permanent, and means you can no longer be a carrier and spread it.

None of those things are inherently true. That's a kindergarten-level view of the concept and it's terrifying that so many people apparently stopped learning about biology in grade school.

You may not gain any immunity at all.

If you do gain immunity, it is extremely unlikely to be permanent, and we don't know yet how long it will last (smart money is on 6 to 12 months based on similar viruses).

Any immunity you gain does not guarantee you cannot become an asymptomatic carrier. It is entirely possible to be able to sufficiently fight it yourself that you don't get sick, but still have a dense enough infection to spread it around.

And, of course, none of this takes into account that you can get sick and wind up spreading a mutated version nobody is immune to yet no matter how strong an immunity you develop to the original strain.

People are farkkng stupid though, so... party on, morons.

I have just recovered, having tested positive 4/22 and tested negative yesterday. I work at an intensely busy co-op grocery store and will be returning to work in a day or so.

I fully agree with you, I have no idea how "immune" I am at this point and if so, for how long. I do know that, having tested negative, I am not carrying it. I simply no longer have it.

It was a 3 week ordeal, no hospital needed, but it was no picnic. I waited 8 days with no symptoms before testing negative. I will turn 55 in June and am a former lifetime smoker, (I vape now).

I still can't believe what idiots some people are; you do not want this thing.

Glad that you recovered and are doing well!


Thanks dude! Yeah, what I forgot to mention was I didn't get it at work, everyone there tested negative.

I had heard other tenants in my apartment building coughing about a week before I got it. I was extremely careful yet I'm sure I either breathed it or got it in my eyes from respiratory droplets in the hallway or stairs. I likely came behind someone just minutes after them.
 
2020-05-19 11:11:20 AM  

rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.

AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.

I go to work every weekday, I wear masks, use hand sanitizer, wash my hands, use napkins or tissues to handle doors and touch screens, don't touch my face or pick my nose, keep six feet between myself and others, etc etc.  Allergies are acting up a bit because of tree pollen, but no colds or random bugs or sinus infections, thanks to the precautions I have been taking.  But not everybody can and not everybody will do those things, hence the Stay At Home and the mandatory mask orders.  That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.


A lot of people seem to think that everybody is going to catch Covid - indeed, I have heard a number of people say it.
Of course, no disease ever reaches an infection rate of 100% ever. No where close to it, usually.
Estimates I have read guess that if absolutely nothing were done, covid could expect to top out somewhere around 70-75% - and that's a high estimate.
Many, many millions of people will never catch this disease - I propose to be one of them.
It's not at all far fetched - for one thing, we are taking measures, and Covid's saturation point could end up being less than 50% of the population, if we're really, really lucky.
The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.
 
2020-05-19 11:11:47 AM  

Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.


The lockdowns prevented all of those worst-case scenario models, dingus.

We locked our doors and nobody got inside! What a waste of time!
 
2020-05-19 11:12:36 AM  
yeah!  Cause treating this contagion like every other one humanity has ever faced is stupid!

Lets all stop living life forever until all germs are gone for good, thats the SMART thing to do!

/ stop being dumb.
 
2020-05-19 11:14:03 AM  

Skeleton Man: We locked our doors and nobody got inside! What a waste of time!


But I'm tired of wearing rubbers. I never catch the clap, so what's the point?
 
2020-05-19 11:14:11 AM  

Herb Utsmelz: FormlessOne: I know I'm not supposed to feel like this, but, by all that's good in the world, I'm starting to hate people in general.

I've always been misanthropic. 2016 merely sealed it.


I've usually identified myself as a misanthrope, but typically out of frustration - I want to like people, I really do, but they let me down so damned often.

This isn't that. I genuinely feel that the rest of the world is putting my family at risk solely out of greed and stupidity. I don't feel misanthropic - I feel farking hostile, as though I'm under attack somehow. It's not rational, and even knowing that doesn't really help. All we want to do at this point is to withdraw from the world, break contact, and just "hunker down" until it's safe to re-emerge. It's blown much of the work I've done in the last few years, fighting off my agoraphobia.
 
2020-05-19 11:15:25 AM  

I sound fat: yeah!  Cause treating this contagion like every other one humanity has ever faced is stupid!

Lets all stop living life forever until all germs are gone for good, thats the SMART thing to do!

/ stop being dumb.


Right...let's definitely NOT listen to people who study and fight diseases like this professionally.  Let's trust our guts, and assume this is just like them there chicken pox...amirite?
 
2020-05-19 11:16:28 AM  

Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.


Not only missed the point, but watched it whiz by so you could make a number of bone-headed statements?

Shush. You're not helping. You're just illustrating my point.
 
2020-05-19 11:17:48 AM  
I remember those parties. We last had them in the 50's for things like Yellow Jaundice, measles, Whooping Cough and some others but that was when we knew that we could get immunity and not die from catching the disease.

These days no one is sure we can get immunity from Covid19. After all, it has been observed that the disease was engineered to infect both human and animals -- and who does that? Why, the military of course.

Stupid is really showing up in America to a crisis level while other nations watch and laugh.
 
2020-05-19 11:18:36 AM  

rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.


THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.
 
2020-05-19 11:19:21 AM  

Skeleton Man: The lockdowns prevented all of those worst-case scenario models, dingus.

We locked our doors and nobody got inside! What a waste of time!


Except that Sweden never locked down and didn't run out of ICU beds either. There is zero relationship between extent of lockdown and deaths from the virus. Look across the whole world. Look across the US. Look even within given states before and after easing lockdown restrictions. Georgia is doing fine a month after reopening.

There are a lot of people being extremely smug who aren't supported by any actual data or science. They said back in March that "OMG we're all gonna die unless we do A, B, and C!" and now that the data is showing otherwise, they are stubbornly showing an emotional committed to not having been wrong.
 
2020-05-19 11:20:14 AM  

LarryDan43: Getting it once doesn't cure you. Ask the Navy.


Ok Doomer
 
2020-05-19 11:22:26 AM  

RussianPotato: rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.


I advocate listening to medical professionals who specialize in epidemics...what are those professionals saying right now?
 
2020-05-19 11:23:52 AM  

Tommy Moo: but it's not malicious


Agreed, but it is mind-numbingly ignorant.
 
2020-05-19 11:26:21 AM  

Tommy Moo: Skeleton Man: The lockdowns prevented all of those worst-case scenario models, dingus.

We locked our doors and nobody got inside! What a waste of time!

Except that Sweden never locked down and didn't run out of ICU beds either. There is zero relationship between extent of lockdown and deaths from the virus. Look across the whole world. Look across the US. Look even within given states before and after easing lockdown restrictions. Georgia is doing fine a month after reopening.

There are a lot of people being extremely smug who aren't supported by any actual data or science. They said back in March that "OMG we're all gonna die unless we do A, B, and C!" and now that the data is showing otherwise, they are stubbornly showing an emotional committed to not having been wrong.


Sweden, the country with the highest per-capita death rates in Europe right now?  The one with the same population size as Georgia but twice as many deaths?  How does that help your argument?

In fact, nothing you say backs up or supports your argument.
 
2020-05-19 11:26:45 AM  
Listening to Sean M's FUD will get you killed.

R0 is 5.7. 

90,000 dead in two months.

It's real, it kills, and if it doesn't kill you, you stand a good change of being farked for life.

Extra bonus if you become an asymptomatic super-shedder and kill innocents while tooling around.

Stay at home works. 
Breaking the cycle of infection, works. 
Reducing the load on Hospitals is a good thing. 
Wearing your damn mask reduces spread. 

Remember, it doesn't care about your Politics, it doesn't care about your feelings. It cares for hosts. 

All it wants are hosts. 

Don't let it have any new ones.
 
2020-05-19 11:27:55 AM  

xanadian: Just as long as they stay faaaaaaaar away from me (and the rest of us sane folk) and isolate amongst each other, we can just let Darwin sort this out.


they are willfully engaging in high risk behavior affecting themselves and anyone else they meet, regarding this virus.  You honestly think that stops when the party is over?
 
2020-05-19 11:27:57 AM  

guestguy: RussianPotato: rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.

I advocate listening to medical professionals who specialize in epidemics...what are those professionals saying right now?


Medical professionals are not fit to comment on matters of politics.  They have no understanding of economics or the pain and suffering caused by failed economies.
 
2020-05-19 11:33:24 AM  

RussianPotato: guestguy: RussianPotato: rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.

I advocate listening to medical professionals who specialize in epidemics...what are those professionals saying right now?

Medical professionals are not fit to comment on matters of politics.  They have no understanding of economics or the pain and suffering caused by failed economies.


Viruses don't give two shiats about politics.  Listen to the farking experts.  Follow their plan for "safely" reopening the country.
 
2020-05-19 11:33:31 AM  

FormlessOne: know I'm not supposed to feel like this, but, by all that's good in the world, I'm starting to hate people in general.

We Poets in our youth begin in gladness;
But thereof come in the end despondency and madness.


I don't feel misanthropy anymore. I'm not convinced many of us have the control we imagine in either ourselves or the people in office. The fetor of Trumpism has come just as we aged ones are on the cusp of dotage. All I can ask of you youthful Farkers who are also Trumpers is to snap out of it. Authoritarianism has never been good. There's a story of mountain climbing in Robert Graves's Goodbye to All That. (This will come 'round in the end.) One of the guys climbing with Graves became overly fearful and fretful and started to actually whimper. His sister hissed at him, "Have a bit of wit, Conor." Shamed, he straightened out, composed himself, and successfully continued the climb.  Please, have a bit of wit, Trumpers.
 
2020-05-19 11:33:34 AM  
One of the worst myths about viral diseases is equating antibodies with strength and good health. A virus attacks you, your immune system fends it off, and you're left either ok or damaged from the attack, but certainly not better off. People aren't feeling so great for a loooooooong time after getting this virus. It can really beat the shiat out of your body, especially the lungs and kidneys. And it can go after other systems as well. But hey, you're left with some antibodies!! Yay!!
 
2020-05-19 11:33:51 AM  

RussianPotato: rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

I mean, it's not like we don't have something very similar from a century ago we could look at for an example.

If you lose your humanity while trying to make sure children's lives aren't disrupted for a few months (even a year), guess what - you caused a problem that will disrupt their entire lives and take generations to fix.
 
2020-05-19 11:34:32 AM  

Znuh: Listening to Sean M's FUD will get you killed.

R0 is 5.7. 

90,000 dead in two months.

It's real, it kills, and if it doesn't kill you, you stand a good change of being farked for life.

Extra bonus if you become an asymptomatic super-shedder and kill innocents while tooling around.

Stay at home works. 
Breaking the cycle of infection, works. 
Reducing the load on Hospitals is a good thing. 
Wearing your damn mask reduces spread. 

Remember, it doesn't care about your Politics, it doesn't care about your feelings. It cares for hosts. 

All it wants are hosts. 

Don't let it have any new ones.


To be clear, R0 is 5.7 globally - right now, in Washington, R0 is approaching 1, but it's done so in part due to our early & fairly well-adopted COVID-19 directives.

I know this because we get weekly (or more often) updates from Microsoft about the current state of affairs, to determine when we can come back to campus. Here's what we were told this morning:
- The only continental U.S. states with an R approximately less than 1 are Kansas, Massachusetts, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, and New York.
- In Washington, our R is approximately 1, a slight improvement over last week. We're seeing an additional 248 cases a day, down from last week's average of 272 new cases a day, and most of that growth is from eastern WA.
- California's R is about 1.1, with about 45% of new cases from Los Angeles county. The 9 counties in the Bay Area are basically flat.

We are making progress, but that's precisely because some states have taken appropriate measures. The main reason we're still seeing a brutal upward trend is because the states that didn't take measures are still shooting for the moon, and some states that "reopened," like Georgia, are seeing upticks.
 
2020-05-19 11:34:56 AM  

jso2897: rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.

AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.

I go to work every weekday, I wear masks, use hand sanitizer, wash my hands, use napkins or tissues to handle doors and touch screens, don't touch my face or pick my nose, keep six feet between myself and others, etc etc.  Allergies are acting up a bit because of tree pollen, but no colds or random bugs or sinus infections, thanks to the precautions I have been taking.  But not everybody can and not everybody will do those things, hence the Stay At Home and the mandatory mask orders.  That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

A lot of people seem to think that everybody is going to catch Covid - indeed, I have heard a number of people say it.
Of course, no disease ever reaches an infection rate of 100% ever. No where close to it, usually.
Estimates I have read guess that if absolutely nothing were done, covid could expect to top out somewhere around 70-75% - and that's a high estimate.
Many, many millions of people will never catch this disease - I propose to be one of them.
It's not at all far fetched - for one thing, we are taking measures, and Covid's saturation point could end up being less than 50% of the population, if we're really, really lucky.
The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.


I went to a bar in Germany that was down in some second basement. Until your comment, that was the lowest bar I'd ever seen.
 
2020-05-19 11:37:01 AM  
 
2020-05-19 11:37:23 AM  
Party's upstairs, everybody....
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 11:37:52 AM  

RussianPotato: guestguy: RussianPotato: rebelyell2006: That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

THAT WAS NEVER THE PLAN.

You're just making up what you want.  The only reason to stay at home was to flatten the curve.  We flattened the curve and in the meantime we learned a whole lot about treating the disease.

Would you force every 30 year old to donate a kidney to a 97 year old?  Would you force every young person to give up years of their life just to extend ever so slightly the lives of extremely old people?  Because that's what you're advocating for.

I advocate listening to medical professionals who specialize in epidemics...what are those professionals saying right now?

Medical professionals are not fit to comment on matters of politics.  They have no understanding of economics or the pain and suffering caused by failed economies.


So the only people who should speak on the subject are the abject urban poor in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

I'm serious.
 
2020-05-19 11:38:03 AM  

rebelyell2006: Sweden, the country with the highest per-capita death rates in Europe right now?


That would be Belgium.

Sweden is the country that has flattened the curve and seen a slow, steady decline in new infections for the past month. According to all you armchair experts, they should still be seeing exponential increase in new cases and deaths. The fact that there aren't 100,000 dead in Sweden at this point is proof that you don't need ironclad, draconian lockdowns to prevent the virus from exponentially overwhelming a society.

Their model was to protect the old and sick and allow the young and healthy to do exactly what this article is talking about. It was always likely to have a few more deaths than some other countries up front. But you'll see the value in it this summer when Sweden is enjoying its herd immunity while the rest of us are still being viciated by a steady trickle of death.
 
2020-05-19 11:41:19 AM  

Tommy Moo: viciated


vitiated

For it is said, that when that due time, or appointed time comes, their foot shall slide. Then they shall be left to fall, as they are inclined by their own weight. God will not hold them up in these slippery places any longer, but will let them go; and then, at that very instant, they shall fall into destruction
 
2020-05-19 11:43:12 AM  

Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: Sweden, the country with the highest per-capita death rates in Europe right now?

That would be Belgium.

Sweden is the country that has flattened the curve and seen a slow, steady decline in new infections for the past month. According to all you armchair experts, they should still be seeing exponential increase in new cases and deaths. The fact that there aren't 100,000 dead in Sweden at this point is proof that you don't need ironclad, draconian lockdowns to prevent the virus from exponentially overwhelming a society.

Their model was to protect the old and sick and allow the young and healthy to do exactly what this article is talking about. It was always likely to have a few more deaths than some other countries up front. But you'll see the value in it this summer when Sweden is enjoying its herd immunity while the rest of us are still being viciated by a steady trickle of death.


Well, I can see you are misusing the phrase "herd immunity", so it is safe to conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2020-05-19 11:46:17 AM  

yakmans_dad: jso2897: rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.

AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.

I go to work every weekday, I wear masks, use hand sanitizer, wash my hands, use napkins or tissues to handle doors and touch screens, don't touch my face or pick my nose, keep six feet between myself and others, etc etc.  Allergies are acting up a bit because of tree pollen, but no colds or random bugs or sinus infections, thanks to the precautions I have been taking.  But not everybody can and not everybody will do those things, hence the Stay At Home and the mandatory mask orders.  That keeps people from being infected in the first place, and will protect us until vaccines are ready.

A lot of people seem to think that everybody is going to catch Covid - indeed, I have heard a number of people say it.
Of course, no disease ever reaches an infection rate of 100% ever. No where close to it, usually.
Estimates I have read guess that if absolutely nothing were done, covid could expect to top out somewhere around 70-75% - and that's a high estimate.
Many, many millions of people will never catch this disease - I propose to be one of them.
It's not at all far fetched - for one thing, we are taking measures, and Covid's saturation point could end up being less than 50% of the population, if we're really, really lucky.
The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.

I went to a bar in Germany that was down in some second basement. Until your comment, that was the lowest bar I'd ever seen.


How so? Am I wrong? Can you prove it?
Protip: You can't.
 
2020-05-19 11:47:49 AM  

Sean M: The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.


The weird thing is I knew a Sean M. years ago, who likewise wasn't particularly bright, and once said, "We don't need all these food programs for people; nobody in this country is starving." You don't live in Colorado, do you?
 
2020-05-19 11:53:01 AM  

I sound fat: yeah!  Cause treating this contagion like every other one humanity has ever faced is stupid!

Lets all stop living life forever until all germs are gone for good, thats the SMART thing to do!

/ stop being dumb.


More dumb than fat.

That Mitchell and Webb Look - Send us your reckons
Youtube OQnd5ilKx2Y
 
2020-05-19 11:54:41 AM  
I wondered how long before chicken pox thinking would be applied to Covid-19.  The old ways were not always the best.
 
2020-05-19 11:54:47 AM  
Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military

"During the medical history interview or examination, a history of COVID-19, confirmed by either a laboratory test or a clinician diagnosis, is permanently disqualifying ..."
 
2020-05-19 11:55:27 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Sean M: The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.

The weird thing is I knew a Sean M. years ago, who likewise wasn't particularly bright, and once said, "We don't need all these food programs for people; nobody in this country is starving." You don't live in Colorado, do you?


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 11:55:47 AM  
While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose. There is a decent chance that getting sick with this will require hospitalization to save your life . The virus spreads just fine on its own and doesn't need extra help. Not to mention Im pretty sure these people will end up spreading the virus to others.
 
2020-05-19 11:56:20 AM  

corn-bread: I wondered how long before chicken pox thinking would be applied to Covid-19.  The old ways were not always the best.


Like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
 
2020-05-19 11:56:53 AM  

middlewaytao: Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military

"During the medical history interview or examination, a history of COVID-19, confirmed by either a laboratory test or a clinician diagnosis, is permanently disqualifying ..."


Makes sense.  Catching a disease means there is a decent chance of it remaining in a person even after the person feels well, like Typhoid Mary.
 
2020-05-19 11:57:41 AM  

Tommy Moo: Their model was to protect the old and sick and allow the young and healthy to do exactly what this article is talking about.have a health system that was adequate enough for the spike in infections, unlike New York City, Lombardy, Wuhan, and various other places that were overwhelmed because they were underprepared and/or underresourced.


ftfy
 
2020-05-19 11:58:06 AM  

xanadian: AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.

I blame antipathy towards scientific knowledge.


Antipathy? Try outright hostility because you can use science to show that profitable business practices with large externalities are bad. The GOP has become the party of plutocracy and so anything that might harm businessmen's interests is now the enemy.
 
2020-05-19 11:58:42 AM  

falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose.


It's usually right wingers doing this--you know, the kind of people who think if the government takes in less revenue it will take in more revenue.
 
2020-05-19 11:58:46 AM  

jso2897: corn-bread: I wondered how long before chicken pox thinking would be applied to Covid-19.  The old ways were not always the best.

Like bringing a knife to a gunfight.


More like bringing a grenade to a chess tournament.  Because waiting it out, taking safe hygiene precautions, and not getting sick until a vaccine is available is worlds better than rolling the dice and hoping the virus does not cause death or permanent organ damage.
 
2020-05-19 11:59:50 AM  

huntercr: Tommy Moo: [...]. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

All of the boomers and Gen Xers who will be getting shingles later in life remember the chicken pox parties


Shingrix. Learn it. Love it. Get the shots.
 
2020-05-19 12:02:12 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose.

It's usually right wingers doing this--you know, the kind of people who think if the government takes in less revenue it will take in more revenue.


It's the sort of idiots who say "we're all going to get HIV anyway, so I might as well stick that random needle that I found in the park into my arm".  It's a stupid, fatalist belief that everybody will have COVID-19, because the people who create conservative talking points have no understanding of viruses or diseases.
 
2020-05-19 12:06:40 PM  
"I know! Lets get Old Frida to give them immunity from The Corrola!

vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 12:13:06 PM  

RussianPotato: After that they'll have some form of immunity, which is our only hope at the moment.


Citation needed.
 
2020-05-19 12:16:23 PM  

FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted. I'm going to have to stay home for months past this, because assholes couldn't stay home when they were asked.


We're like an entire first grade class that keeps getting denied recess because That One Kid can't or won't follow directions.
 
2020-05-19 12:19:05 PM  

geekbikerskum: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted. I'm going to have to stay home for months past this, because assholes couldn't stay home when they were asked.

We're like an entire first grade class that keeps getting denied recess because That One Kid can't or won't follow directions.


Makes you wanna use blankets to hold down a few state governors, then let the rest of the states beat them with bars of soap in towels, a la Full Metal Jacket (NSFW).
 
2020-05-19 12:22:52 PM  

middlewaytao: Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military

"During the medical history interview or examination, a history of COVID-19, confirmed by either a laboratory test or a clinician diagnosis, is permanently disqualifying ..."


Long-term or permanent organ damage is a concern with COVID-19 survivors.
 
2020-05-19 12:28:07 PM  

rebelyell2006: Well, I can see you are misusing the phrase "herd immunity", so it is safe to conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about.


No I'm not. You don't have to get to the point of not a single person ever contracting the disease again to see benefits from herd immunity. You are obtuse as all hell.
 
2020-05-19 12:31:14 PM  

falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose. There is a decent chance that getting sick with this will require hospitalization to save your life . The virus spreads just fine on its own and doesn't need extra help. Not to mention Im pretty sure these people will end up spreading the virus to others.


The idea is that if you get infected in an uncontrolled fashion, from someone sneezing in your face, you might get much, MUCH sicker than if you just kind of hang around someone infected and breath the same air they are breathing for a few minutes. But the latter might give you enough immunity to fight off infection from the former should it happen later on.

It's risky, for sure. Very difficult to control. "Do I need to stay in the room for five minutes or ten? What's the minimum number of minutes in order to get antibodies? How many minutes until I might start to get sick?" We just don't know these things. But you are taking a risk either way.
 
2020-05-19 12:31:47 PM  

Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: Well, I can see you are misusing the phrase "herd immunity", so it is safe to conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No I'm not. You don't have to get to the point of not a single person ever contracting the disease again to see benefits from herd immunity. You are obtuse as all hell.


I'm not the one misusing "herd immunity", it's you.  You know nothing about viruses and contagious diseases.  And you seem to have little understanding of COVID-19 and how bodies react to viruses, and what happens to bodies after they fight off viruses.
 
2020-05-19 12:33:33 PM  

Tommy Moo: falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose. There is a decent chance that getting sick with this will require hospitalization to save your life . The virus spreads just fine on its own and doesn't need extra help. Not to mention Im pretty sure these people will end up spreading the virus to others.

The idea is that if you get infected in an uncontrolled fashion, from someone sneezing in your face, you might get much, MUCH sicker than if you just kind of hang around someone infected and breath the same air they are breathing for a few minutes. But the latter might give you enough immunity to fight off infection from the former should it happen later on.

It's risky, for sure. Very difficult to control. "Do I need to stay in the room for five minutes or ten? What's the minimum number of minutes in order to get antibodies? How many minutes until I might start to get sick?" We just don't know these things. But you are taking a risk either way.


Viruses replicate as they infest host organisms.  It isn't radiation, where limiting exposure can limit damage.  You should step back and think about the stupid things you are posting.
 
2020-05-19 12:37:14 PM  
Plus COVID-19 parties create the risk of asymptomatic spreaders, like Typhoid Mary, infecting others while not getting sick.
 
2020-05-19 12:39:06 PM  
Did anyone see this? I think six or seven million dead means trying this path to herd immunity is beyond stupid. The math is done for you and you get to set your own variables. Give it a shot. You can tell a Republican they haven't done their math homework.
 
2020-05-19 12:40:38 PM  

Huggermugger: Yeah, that reminds me of the time that Empress Maria Theresa visited the coffin of her daughter-in-law who had just died of smallpox, and forced several of her daughters to accompany her.  And then some of the daughters caught smallpox from that exposure, and some of them died, and some of them lived but were so facially disfigured from the pox that no one would marry them.


Not that anyone cares or will even read this 6 miles down the thread from the original comment, but....

She only forced one daughter to accompany her, Archduchess Maria Josepha.  She developed the rash 2 days later.  While Maria Theresa blamed herself the rest of her life for her daughters death, it was only because she did not know about the incubation period of smallpox.  Maria Josepha would have been exposed to the virus well before her visit to the crypt.

I know nothing of other daughters having smallpox.
 
2020-05-19 12:41:59 PM  
The worst part about this is that these farkwits drive, vote and reproduce. We would all be better off if they did none of those.
The best part about this is that they are almost as physically far away from me in the US as possible.

Go die on your own, you farking morons!
 
2020-05-19 12:43:52 PM  

rebelyell2006: middlewaytao: Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military

"During the medical history interview or examination, a history of COVID-19, confirmed by either a laboratory test or a clinician diagnosis, is permanently disqualifying ..."

Makes sense.  Catching a disease means there is a decent chance of it remaining in a person even after the person feels well, like Typhoid Mary.


i'm pretty sure it's because they fear permanent lung/heart/other systems damage that could appear years after the infection, and the first symptom may be dropping dead at your post. not good for a critical soldier position.

not some kind of "beware the life-long super-spreader" hyper-cautionary approach.
 
2020-05-19 12:43:55 PM  
I'm guessing none of these people ever got the flu more than once.
 
2020-05-19 12:46:23 PM  

rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: Well, I can see you are misusing the phrase "herd immunity", so it is safe to conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No I'm not. You don't have to get to the point of not a single person ever contracting the disease again to see benefits from herd immunity. You are obtuse as all hell.

I'm not the one misusing "herd immunity", it's you.  You know nothing about viruses and contagious diseases.  And you seem to have little understanding of COVID-19 and how bodies react to viruses, and what happens to bodies after they fight off viruses.


He's a moronic GamerGater, which makes his being a total idiot about most other things not as surprising.
 
2020-05-19 12:49:54 PM  

Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: No, just an older idiot with no understanding of how viruses work. Look at his reference to chicken pox parties.

AKA literally a virus. I'm here providing sources and historical citations. What's your f_c%king plan, to sit home jacking off for months and then catch the virus in the fall when someone coughs in your face? This isn't going away just because we "sheltered in place" for a few months. It's going to be there, waiting for you, when you emerge. And you will emerge someday.


Someone ran out of lotion long ago and now is miserable with a severe case of callouses.

Look, Mr It's-just-the-flu... your state absolutely botched the handling of C-19 and were stacking bodies like cord wood for weeks, more than a thousand a day, and you want to go out and party like it is No-Covid-1999.
All I can say is knock yourself out champ, you obviously know far better than the professionals...

Can I have your stuff?
 
2020-05-19 12:52:35 PM  

SoundOfOneHandWanking: I'm guessing none of these people ever got the flu more than once.


It's only "just like the flu" when it convenient for it to be.
 
2020-05-19 12:55:13 PM  

jso2897: The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.
yakmans_dad: I went to a bar in Germany that was down in some second basement. Until your comment, that was the lowest bar I'd ever seen.


How so? Am I wrong? Can you prove it?
Protip: You can't.


Well, our exchange is already jam-packed with cliches, so I'll just say that a demand for proof wasn't part of my criticism.
 
2020-05-19 1:02:00 PM  

rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose. There is a decent chance that getting sick with this will require hospitalization to save your life . The virus spreads just fine on its own and doesn't need extra help. Not to mention Im pretty sure these people will end up spreading the virus to others.

The idea is that if you get infected in an uncontrolled fashion, from someone sneezing in your face, you might get much, MUCH sicker than if you just kind of hang around someone infected and breath the same air they are breathing for a few minutes. But the latter might give you enough immunity to fight off infection from the former should it happen later on.

It's risky, for sure. Very difficult to control. "Do I need to stay in the room for five minutes or ten? What's the minimum number of minutes in order to get antibodies? How many minutes until I might start to get sick?" We just don't know these things. But you are taking a risk either way.

Viruses replicate as they infest host organisms.  It isn't radiation, where limiting exposure can limit damage.  You should step back and think about the stupid things you are posting.


Angrily repeating yourself doesn't make you right, you arrogant warthog. Read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/op​i​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

For over a century controlling viral load was exactly how we inoculated people against disease. You are just plain wrong and I'm done arguing with you about it.
 
2020-05-19 1:02:55 PM  

ValisIV: rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: Well, I can see you are misusing the phrase "herd immunity", so it is safe to conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No I'm not. You don't have to get to the point of not a single person ever contracting the disease again to see benefits from herd immunity. You are obtuse as all hell.

I'm not the one misusing "herd immunity", it's you.  You know nothing about viruses and contagious diseases.  And you seem to have little understanding of COVID-19 and how bodies react to viruses, and what happens to bodies after they fight off viruses.

He's a moronic GamerGater, which makes his being a total idiot about most other things not as surprising.


Where the fark do you get that idea from? I haven't even heard the term GamerGater in years. I barely even play video games.
 
2020-05-19 1:06:35 PM  

huntercr: Tommy Moo: [...]. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

All of the boomers and Gen Xers who will be getting shingles later in life remember the chicken pox parties


Well there wasn't a vaccine, so chicken pox parties were a net good. Getting chicken pox as a six year old is infinitely preferable to catching it as an adult. It's not like people sat around and said "You know what would be fun? Making my children miserable for a two to three week period."

I got it in 1977, along with every single other kid on my street. I think my parents were relieved, like it was another thing they could cross off the checklist.
 
2020-05-19 1:07:52 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 1:10:49 PM  

Tommy Moo: rebelyell2006: Tommy Moo: falkone32: While this would probably "work", the fact remains that getting infected so that you don't get infected kind of defeats the purpose. There is a decent chance that getting sick with this will require hospitalization to save your life . The virus spreads just fine on its own and doesn't need extra help. Not to mention Im pretty sure these people will end up spreading the virus to others.

The idea is that if you get infected in an uncontrolled fashion, from someone sneezing in your face, you might get much, MUCH sicker than if you just kind of hang around someone infected and breath the same air they are breathing for a few minutes. But the latter might give you enough immunity to fight off infection from the former should it happen later on.

It's risky, for sure. Very difficult to control. "Do I need to stay in the room for five minutes or ten? What's the minimum number of minutes in order to get antibodies? How many minutes until I might start to get sick?" We just don't know these things. But you are taking a risk either way.

Viruses replicate as they infest host organisms.  It isn't radiation, where limiting exposure can limit damage.  You should step back and think about the stupid things you are posting.

Angrily repeating yourself doesn't make you right, you arrogant warthog. Read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opi​nion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

For over a century controlling viral load was exactly how we inoculated people against disease. You are just plain wrong and I'm done arguing with you about it.


I'm glad you are walking away and giving up, because you know nothing about the topic at hand and linking to an opinion article on the New York Times is not a magic spell that automatically makes you right.  If you can't see reason, then shutting up is the next best thing.
 
2020-05-19 1:16:01 PM  
It appears that people being diagnosed as being reinfected are actually false positives and cannot make others sick.

See: https://www.livescience.com/coro​naviru​s-reinfections-were-false-positives.ht​ml
 
2020-05-19 1:21:13 PM  
eddie_irvine:

Except the fact that scientists aren't certain that that having Covid antibodies make you immune. There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid. Covid parties are a bad idea.


There is some evidence to the contrary - That's what they should have named this virus.
 
2020-05-19 1:29:54 PM  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
2020-05-19 1:33:55 PM  

Psychopusher: I wonder how many of them will die from this? Death is the ultimate immunity, after all.


some will, some won't
 
2020-05-19 1:41:59 PM  

jso2897: corn-bread: I wondered how long before chicken pox thinking would be applied to Covid-19.  The old ways were not always the best.

Like bringing a knife to a gunfight.


knife in hand beats a gun in the holster
 
2020-05-19 1:46:38 PM  

xanadian: Just as long as they stay faaaaaaaar away from me (and the rest of us sane folk) and isolate amongst each other, we can just let Darwin sort this out.


But those that survive with permanent disability will be on us to support.
 
2020-05-19 2:17:26 PM  

nanim: That gov apparently needs to give them concrete examples - show how the 'Smith family birthday party ended up w/ Grandma Smith dead 14 days later'.


Ok, we've got that in New Jersey.

"Four people in the same family have died from coronavirus in the US state of New Jersey, with three more relatives in hospital.

Grace Fusco, 73, and six of her adult children fell ill after attending a large family gathering.
...
New Jersey health officials said Ms Fusco-Jackson was the second person to die from Covid-19 in the state, and the first fatality had also recently attended a Fusco family gathering.

Carmine Fusco died on Wednesday [March 18], followed hours later by his mother, Grace Fusco."
 
2020-05-19 2:17:51 PM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


I have no specific scientific knowledge, but im not a complete dumbass. The ways some people react to this mess confounds me.
 
2020-05-19 2:26:49 PM  

Tommy Moo: eddie_irvine: Except the fact that scientists aren't certain that that having Covid antibodies make you immune. There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid. Covid parties are a bad idea.

If COVID antibodies didn't confer immunity, there would be literally thousands of documented cases of people getting the virus twice. There have been, at most, a few anecdotes, with several of them possibly being due to false positive tests. There is no way that SARS-COV-2 is suddenly the first magical virus in our billion year history with viruses to not engender any immunity from future infections.


Sweden says the same thing.  They have no reinfection cases.
 
2020-05-19 2:30:12 PM  

yakmans_dad: jso2897: The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.
yakmans_dad: I went to a bar in Germany that was down in some second basement. Until your comment, that was the lowest bar I'd ever seen.


How so? Am I wrong? Can you prove it?
Protip: You can't.

Well, our exchange is already jam-packed with cliches, so I'll just say that a demand for proof wasn't part of my criticism.


Was anything? It was just a baseless slur, with no informational content.
 
2020-05-19 2:30:23 PM  

Tommy Moo: They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off.


One hole here... both smallpox and cowpox - the other virus that humans had already been in contact with since they domesticated livestock - had already been with people for a long, long, long time. Cowpox was also the less lethal form that humans were inoculated with that stimulated their antibody response. It was just a serendipitous happenstance that the human body's reaction to the cowpox virus was close enough to also ward off smallpox.

This is a NOVELVIRUS. Know what means? Means "humans have never seen anything like this before". There is no known analogue that can stimulate the human immune response for this or has in the past. There is no "close enough" as there was for smallpox, just as there was no "close enough" for poliomyelitis. Two vaccines had to be created for that, one with dead viruses and one with weakened viruses. Otherwise there is no immunity. You get polio, you're f'ked.

People will just have to get used to the idea that, like polio, there is no immunity through exposure - as has been shown in our own United States Navy. The only way is through a vaccine, which is being explored, and through controlling physical contact that spreads the virus.

There is no "fight off" with this, and people who purposely expose themselves to it without medical supervision (as in vaccine trials) are f'king morons. There are no easy answers. There are no shortcuts. Life has and will change. Every once in awhile nature just throws sh*t and we have to deal with it.
 
2020-05-19 2:31:06 PM  

zepillin: jso2897: corn-bread: I wondered how long before chicken pox thinking would be applied to Covid-19.  The old ways were not always the best.

Like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

knife in hand beats a gun in the holster


Famous last words.
 
2020-05-19 2:54:33 PM  

rewind2846: Tommy Moo: They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off.

One hole here... both smallpox and cowpox - the other virus that humans had already been in contact with since they domesticated livestock - had already been with people for a long, long, long time. Cowpox was also the less lethal form that humans were inoculated with that stimulated their antibody response. It was just a serendipitous happenstance that the human body's reaction to the cowpox virus was close enough to also ward off smallpox.

This is a NOVELVIRUS. Know what means? Means "humans have never seen anything like this before". There is no known analogue that can stimulate the human immune response for this or has in the past. There is no "close enough" as there was for smallpox, just as there was no "close enough" for poliomyelitis. Two vaccines had to be created for that, one with dead viruses and one with weakened viruses. Otherwise there is no immunity. You get polio, you're f'ked.

People will just have to get used to the idea that, like polio, there is no immunity through exposure - as has been shown in our own United States Navy. The only way is through a vaccine, which is being explored, and through controlling physical contact that spreads the virus.

There is no "fight off" with this, and people who purposely expose themselves to it without medical supervision (as in vaccine trials) are f'king morons. There are no easy answers. There are no shortcuts. Life has and will change. Every once in awhile nature just throws sh*t and we have to deal with it.


People who had polio got immunity.  Seriously, you talk of history you know nothing of.  The problem is they also wound up with paralysis for the rest of their lives.
 
2020-05-19 3:01:31 PM  

AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.


We do know that infected people can be asymptomatic for up to 14 days, while some infected people never develop symptoms all while spreading the disease.  Someone stupid and selfish enough to go to a COVID-19 party is probably not wearing a mask to protect people after getting himself/herself infected.
 
2020-05-19 3:12:33 PM  

RussianPotato: People who had polio got immunity.


"Immunity" in this case is not like the immunity these morons think they will get from intentionally exposing themselves to this virus. You can still get f'ked up.
And my maternal grandfather had polio at the age of 31 in 1960, spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair. He was vaccinated later in his 30s.
 
2020-05-19 3:16:50 PM  

Sean M: NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.


That's only partly true.  The other purpose of the lockdowns were to reduce the R factor (transmissibility) of the virus to less than 1.  If you can do that for long enough the virus can't find enough new hosts and it dies out.

New Zealand did that, and Germany thinks it's there.  Us USAmericans, though, love haircuts more than life itself.
 
2020-05-19 3:18:58 PM  
So, basically the modern equivalent of chickenpox parties?

/see, back before there was a chickenpox vaccine, parents would basically get their kids together and make sure they were exposed to Chickenpox early, since having it as a kid was far less dangerous than if you had it as an adult.
//DNRTFA/TFT.
 
2020-05-19 3:19:40 PM  

Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.


Please tell me you don't practice medicine.
 
2020-05-19 3:22:58 PM  

Znuh: Listening to Sean M's FUD will get you killed.

R0 is 5.7. 

90,000 dead in two months.

It's real, it kills, and if it doesn't kill you, you stand a good change of being farked for life.

Extra bonus if you become an asymptomatic super-shedder and kill innocents while tooling around.

Stay at home works. 
Breaking the cycle of infection, works. 
Reducing the load on Hospitals is a good thing. 
Wearing your damn mask reduces spread. 

Remember, it doesn't care about your Politics, it doesn't care about your feelings. It cares for hosts. 

All it wants are hosts. 

Don't let it have any new ones.


Minor point, but like the flu, there's no guarantee that staying home and "breaking the cycle of infection" will do anything but delay the inevitable.  About the only thing that we can bank on actually happening with the stay at home thing is that the rate of infection will slow to a point where hospitals can handle the load.

Just like every other strain of the coronavirus out there, it's never going to just "go away" and never come back.

And we'd better get used to the idea that we're going to have to live with the risk and take appropriate steps to live our lives in ways that reduce the risk of infection, but knowing full well that all we can really do is improve our health and reduce our risk factors for the virus being lethal.

No, I'm not saying "lulz, do nothing", either. I'm pointing out that this virus isn't likely to completely die out and not come back, and unless we plan to live our lives in hermetically sealed bubbles forever, it's going to keep infecting people.
 
2020-05-19 3:24:08 PM  

Graffito: Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

/yes, I attended medical school.
//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.

Please tell me you don't practice medicine.


Well, medical malpractice is responsible for between 250k and 450k deaths every year, so...
 
2020-05-19 3:26:15 PM  

Tommy Moo: For over a century controlling viral load was exactly how we inoculated people against disease.


Are you thinking about the cow pox and small pox? Your idea of "control" is rather sweeping.
 
2020-05-19 3:43:35 PM  
Time to start arresting people. This is no longer a joke. Deliberately exposing yourself and others to the virus should be considered an act of harm to the community.
 
2020-05-19 3:43:59 PM  
Arguing about viral load, infections, immunity, vaccines, deaths, antibodies, lockdowns, quarantines, and reopening is all a waste of time, since human nature is gonna eventually win out in a landslide. It may happen slowly over months or even years, but eventually people will go back to work, school, socializing, and not thinking any more about Coronavirus than they do the Spanish flu or any of the other goop in the microbial soup we all swim in daily without a second thought.

The telling thing is that this fact seems to anger a lot of you and reveals your very deep and disturbing authoritarian tendencies and hate for others that don't think like you do.
 
2020-05-19 4:06:55 PM  
My sister is a respiratory therapist

And she tells me 8 out of 10 people who are so bad off they need a ventilator,, die on a ventilator.

If you cant breathe on your own, without the aid of a machine, your farked, pretty much.
 
2020-05-19 4:09:04 PM  

jso2897: yakmans_dad: jso2897: The idea that "everybody's gonig to get it" is sub-stupid.
yakmans_dad: I went to a bar in Germany that was down in some second basement. Until your comment, that was the lowest bar I'd ever seen.


How so? Am I wrong? Can you prove it?
Protip: You can't.

Well, our exchange is already jam-packed with cliches, so I'll just say that a demand for proof wasn't part of my criticism.

Was anything? It was just a baseless slur, with no informational content.


Yes, there was something. Scorn. Not overwhelming information, true. It was even hyperbolic. People who say that everybody won't die from AGW are actually the lowest bar I've ever read.
 
2020-05-19 4:12:20 PM  

gretzkyscores: Arguing about viral load, infections, immunity, vaccines, deaths, antibodies, lockdowns, quarantines, and reopening is all a waste of time, since human nature is gonna eventually win out in a landslide. It may happen slowly over months or even years, but eventually people will go back to work, school, socializing, and not thinking any more about Coronavirus than they do the Spanish flu or any of the other goop in the microbial soup we all swim in daily without a second thought.

The telling thing is that this fact seems to anger a lot of you and reveals your very deep and disturbing authoritarian tendencies and hate for others that don't think like you do.


bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.comView Full Size

 
2020-05-19 4:34:07 PM  

eddie_irvine: There is some evidence to the contrary, that several people who have tested positive again after having had Covid.


Later tests showed those were false positives.

The way that COVID-19 works, they figured out that you can still test positive for it for about a month after you're over it.

The virus infects the lining of the lungs.  Even after its dead, and your body has overcome the disease, you're still shedding those cells containing dead viruses.

The COVID-19 test looks for the DNA of the virus, which will still be there in the dead viruses.

Until the body has purged the infected cells, you'll be exhaling dead coronavirus, and that takes several weeks to about a month.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo​r​ld/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-patien​ts-infected-twice-test-a9491986.html
 
2020-05-19 5:00:51 PM  
There is no such thing as herd immunity without a vaccine, all you accomplish by purposely spreading around is putting others in danger.

And by trying to dismiss it away and reopen prematurely you are doing more harm to the economy, I am even more wary of going to unnecessary public establishment now than I was at the beginning because people have been such flippant self absorbed asholes about the whole thing.

Most people will continue to listen to medical experts and not republican politiicians.You are making it nearly impossible to "get back to normal".
 
2020-05-19 5:14:50 PM  

gretzkyscores: Arguing about viral load, infections, immunity, vaccines, deaths, antibodies, lockdowns, quarantines, and reopening is all a waste of time, since human nature is gonna eventually win out in a landslide. It may happen slowly over months or even years, but eventually people will go back to work, school, socializing, and not thinking any more about Coronavirus than they do the Spanish flu or any of the other goop in the microbial soup we all swim in daily without a second thought.

The telling thing is that this fact seems to anger a lot of you and reveals your very deep and disturbing authoritarian tendencies and hate for others that don't think like you do.


The "anger" you may erroneously perceive is due to the fact that the decisions to do these things are not being made by doctors, they are not being made by scientists, they are not being made by contagious disease experts, and they are not being made by people who bothered to crack a book and read something in their lives.

These decisions are made by scumbag politicians, their cronies, and their moron believers, people who wouldn't know what a virus was if one crawled up their f'king leg yet perceive themselves experts because they don't like being told to do anything, even if that thing will help them. Childish behavior from people who are supposed to be adults merits annoyance and even "anger", especially when the stakes are life and death.

Any "anger" that exists is because of them and their effect on what should have always been a rational scientific discussion about disease, and medicine, and ways to slow or maybe even stop so many people from needlessly dying. Instead this entire pandemic has been turned into a f'king circus with idiot clowns.
 
2020-05-19 5:23:31 PM  

Huggermugger: AnEasyTarget: There is no science on prior infected being able to transmit the virus. Yes you may have the antibodies and may be immune but we don't if you can also be a transmitter.

Therefore you may be intentionally harming others. There hasn't been enough time to research these things.

/ I blame lack of scientific knowledge.

Yeah, that reminds me of the time that Empress Maria Theresa visited the coffin of her daughter-in-law who had just died of smallpox, and forced several of her daughters to accompany her.  And then some of the daughters caught smallpox from that exposure, and some of them died, and some of them lived but were so facially disfigured from the pox that no one would marry them.


But the Empress prayed first! How could that have gone wrong?
 
2020-05-19 5:34:47 PM  

Tommy Moo: Before you rush to judgment, consider that there might be something to this. It depends on how they are going about it. Back in the 19th century this was how they inoculated for smallpox. They intentionally exposed people to levels of the virus that the body could fight off.


You're confusing smallpox and chicken pox. For smallpox they gave people cowpox.

Why are some people getting very sick while others have virtually no symptoms? It has to do with viral load. If you get fewer than 1000 viral particles, such as one might be exposed to when just breathing the same air with an infected person for a few minutes, then it doesn't progress to a runaway infection in most people, but you still build antibodies which can then protect you from higher levels of exposure in the future.

You've got a bad link, but I think you're trying to go to an editorial from April 1, 2020 that doesn't link to any studies or research. That article notes that the issue of viral load is "being overlooked"--in other words, this is Rabinowitz's hypothesis.

And if you look for other articles making that argument, you keep running into him and only him, and even he doesn't advocate what you're saying. Because we don't know if a small exposure gives you immunity.

Here's actual information about how viral load works--it isn't about how much you're exposed to, but how long the replication works before the immune system kicks in. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/ex​p​ert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-​19-and-viral-load/

Of course, it's very hard to control exposure levels in an ad hoc setting, and the FDA isn't going to approve this type of therapy, but it's not like these people are doing something completely out of left field here. Does anyone else remember their parents bringing them to chicken pox parties when they were kids?

That was before there was a vaccine, we knew that chicken pox brings lifetime immunity, and we also knew that it did more damage post-adolescence than pre.
 
2020-05-19 5:52:05 PM  

Sean M: FormlessOne: Because of assholes like those having "COVID-19 parties," the measures and hardship we've gone through for the last three months is largely wasted.

I hate to break it to you, but the lockdowns have NOT been effective and were largely a waste.   The whole point of them was to "flatten the curve", a.k.a. make sure the hospitals weren't overwhelmed. NOT prevent people from getting infected.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that the lockdowns were to stop infections.

The mathematical modelling "science" ended up being flat-out wrong.  The hospitals weren't overwhelmed, not even close.  Field hospitals were set up all around the country.  None of them saw actual use.   It was predicted that Florida would need 460,000 hospital beds at the peak.  It saw 2,100 beds used at the peak.


Yeah, because of social distancing, the curve was flattened. You understand that, right? You're like someone saying, "I wore a seatbelt, and got in a car accident, and wasn't hurt. So, wearing the seatbelt was a waste of time."

Things got pretty bad in New York.

In many (most?) areas, nursing home residents make up about 50% of the deaths.   These people aren't exactly moving around town.  Lockdowns did nothing to protect them.  Even a recent article in a British medical journal, The Lancet, stated as much and properly concludes that the majority of the population will be infected, with lockdown measures not making one fark's worth of difference to the number of deaths.

Where are you getting that data about nursing homes? And you're right, they don't leave nursing homes. Therefore they have no contact with the outside world. (Think about that for a second.)

I don't know what article you're talking about in The Lancet--could you give more identifying information?

As far as COVID parties, there isn't any support for that on any grounds at this point.  Is it dangerous?  Not really.  The CFR for seasonal influenza is ~0.0025-0.001.   CFR for COVID seems to be around 0.004-0.00004.  Most epidemiologists would agree that 0.004 is higher than what it really is due to the limited number of tests done so far.   So realistically, the seasonal flu is more deadly.  High CFR #s are common in the initial stages of a pandemic, as all you're testing are symptomatic people, so the true infection rates aren't known.

The Lancet does have an article saying COVID has a higher CFR. More important, even by your argument, initial stages of pandemic tend to be more deadly.

/yes, I attended medical school.
I'm curious that you phrase it this way.

//yes, I hated the public health/epidemiology courses.   As does just about every other nurse/doctor who went through them.

Yep, except virologists, of course. It's one reason that epidemiologists and virologists get grumpy with plastic surgeons (or whatever) who have strong opinions on epidemics.
 
2020-05-19 6:38:32 PM  

Tommy Moo: Skeleton Man: The lockdowns prevented all of those worst-case scenario models, dingus.

We locked our doors and nobody got inside! What a waste of time!

Except that Sweden never locked down and didn't run out of ICU beds either.

In theory, the US didn't either. But people in New York couldn't get to ICU beds in North Dakota. Sweden had far more ICU beds available close to where people needed them, and Sweden has the fourth highest mortality rate from COVID.
There are a lot of people being extremely smug who aren't supported by any actual data or science.

Says the guy who has yet to cite anything.

They said back in March that "OMG we're all gonna die unless we do A, B, and C!" and now that the data is showing otherwise, they are stubbornly showing an emotional committed to not having been wrong.

This has been explained to you multiple times. You're like someone saying, "After we instituted seatbelt laws, the number of fatal car crashes dropped, so the laws were unnecessary."

Look, you're out of your depth here.

Think about it this way: what would persuade you that you're wrong? What would persuade you that social distancing was effective? Anything?
 
2020-05-19 6:43:28 PM  
OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly:

1. Testing is absolutely necessary, unless someone says it isn't.
2. Testing has no value, unless someone says it's desperately needed.
2.a. We need to expand testing NOW!

3. Facial masks are a must. Unless someone says they're not really all that effective.
4. ONLY N95 ultra mega super masks will work, but a dirty bandana will do just fine, so WEAR ONE!

5. Only the elderly, Immuno-compromised, and those with underlying conditions are at severe risk. That means everyone.
6. The only way to flatten the curve is to destroy our civilization as we know it to be.
7. We can start opening soon. Real soon. Honest.
8. Stay home until EVERYONE is immunized, Sometime around 2024.

9. Antibodies good. Unless someone says they are not. Unless they are.

10. I have altered the lockdown rules. Pray that I don't alter them further.

Am I doing it right?

/Making it up as we go along.
//Using a Ouija board with half the letters missing should work just as well
///Make America SANE again.
 
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