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(ABC News)   Judge orders Los Angeles to remove Trumpvilles, tell people to go be homeless somewhere else   (abcnews.go.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Los Angeles County, California, Los Angeles, Greater Los Angeles Area, Homelessness, homeless people, Downtown Los Angeles, federal judge, city of Los Angeles  
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2531 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 May 2020 at 4:17 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-16 12:37:31 PM  
Everyone else wants to go camping.
 
2020-05-16 12:42:04 PM  
 
2020-05-16 1:06:52 PM  
Thanks, Ray, that outta do it.
 
2020-05-16 1:34:25 PM  
I'm curious to see what will happen.

60k shocks me, even for a large city like LA.
 
2020-05-16 2:47:48 PM  
TFA: their health is at risk from pollution and the coronavirus

Their health is at risk from homelessness.
 
2020-05-16 2:49:34 PM  
Idea!

When we get back to normal enough to hold sporting events with fans... park them all at either LA NFL team's home games.

A sold out crowd, finally!
 
2020-05-16 2:58:21 PM  

downstairs: TFA: their health is at risk from pollution and the coronavirus

Their health is at risk from homelessness.


Danger from earthquakes? That's gotta be amoung the least of their problems.
 
2020-05-16 2:58:49 PM  
among
 
2020-05-16 3:37:31 PM  
Prior to 2017 what were they called?
 
2020-05-16 4:22:05 PM  

KarmicDisaster: among


That whole setting-up-camp-on-an-on-ramp-median thing is what's got me worried. That's  just dead people waiting to happen.
 
2020-05-16 4:23:41 PM  

lycanth: Prior to 2017 what were they called?


Still judges
 
2020-05-16 4:24:26 PM  
U.S. District Court Judge David O. Carter issued a preliminary injunction requiring relocation of an estimated 6,000 to 7,000 people camping near freeway ramps and under overpasses and bridges. He gave officials one week - until May 22 - to come up with a plan for providing "humane" housing.

A week to come up with a plan to move and find housing for thousands of people who could charitably be said to have "issues"? That'll work.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-16 4:24:44 PM  
I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing
 
2020-05-16 4:26:04 PM  
bring back sro's !

/ wait a minute

/ near homelessness don't ask know L.A. for  a stint in the early late 00's
 
2020-05-16 4:29:17 PM  
Finland fixed their homelessness problem. But America can't because reasons.
 
2020-05-16 4:30:06 PM  
send them to san francisco like everyone else does.  then *WE* can completely ignore the underlying causes and lasting effects.
 
2020-05-16 4:30:42 PM  
Decide where you want them to go and then make a trail of heroin tar balls for them to follow.
 
2020-05-16 4:32:07 PM  

Weatherkiss: Finland fixed their homelessness problem. But America can't because reasons.


I know some fine upstanding Christians that will explain to you that homeless people are homeless because they want to be.
 
2020-05-16 4:32:11 PM  
Oh good the sanctuary districts are finally happening.  The future is back on course.
 
2020-05-16 4:32:42 PM  
TFA is misleading... 'tell people to go live somewhere else' really means 'provide them safe housing or at least some land that's not carcinogenic.'

About fkg time.  I deal with LA County homeless people all the time, since there's a large crossover between homelessness and drug/alcohol dependency.  Most of them would welcome a safe, approved place to make camp.

Also, about half of them -like- "urban camping" and wouldn't accept government housing even if it were free.

So, ironically, the judge is mandating real Trumpvilles.
 
2020-05-16 4:34:31 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-16 4:36:01 PM  

Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing


Then maybe the city should have done something sooner.  They've had literal decades.
 
2020-05-16 4:39:03 PM  
Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.
 
2020-05-16 4:39:53 PM  
Housing First.

The solution is to give them homes.  It's the most humane thing to do.  You cannot begin to solve any of the other problems that the homeless face--including drug and alcohol dependence and mental and physical health--until you address that problem.  (And no, we're not just dumping them in houses and forgetting about them.)

Fortunately, our country is full of empty houses, buildings, and hotel rooms.

Unfortunately, our country is full of greedy, selfish assholes.
 
2020-05-16 4:44:35 PM  

austerity101: Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing

Then maybe the city should have done something sooner.  They've had literal decades.


Ah yes.  Why didn't they just do the smart thing and put an end to one of the most complex issues our society faces.
 
2020-05-16 4:45:59 PM  

Super_pope: austerity101: Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing

Then maybe the city should have done something sooner.  They've had literal decades.

Ah yes.  Why didn't they just do the smart thing and put an end to one of the most complex issues our society faces.


We have ways of making it better.  Giving homeless people housing works great, and it's less expensive than other solutions.  

The fact that it's hard doesn't excuse LA (and almost every other American city) from doing basically nothing about it for the last 50 years.
 
2020-05-16 4:46:56 PM  

Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing


Yeah, you're right, but it's also disingenuous to say that there haven't been any plans on the table discussed or other proposals for years and years.  Another way to look at this is simply that the judge is saying to pick the least bad proposals and see if they work NOW.

I'm one block away from social services and a train stop my backyard is against an onramp for the 405/10 interchange, I'm two blocks away from LA County mental health, the VA is about a mile away. and there's a drug house about 75 yards away that people inherited from their parents where theyve parked about 6 cars on its front lawn.  (One of those cars is a van they leave unlocked for people to shoot up in.)   3 weeks ago, I called the cops when someone tried to break into our house and wound up having to chase the guy off with a wooden dowel.

Sorry, I'm tired of this shiat.  My compassion for doing absolutely nothing is running out.  Do something, however imperfect or misguided, and then do another something for fark's sake.  Good on the judge, although I agree that, like usual, nothing much will come of it.
 
2020-05-16 4:47:29 PM  

bughunter: Most of them would welcome a safe, approved place to make camp.


Ah - I need to append to that.

"...approved place to make camp that's near the services and opportunities they need."

Sticking them in an enclosure out in the middle of nowhere will not be a solution.  That's an internment camp.

Use city and county parks.  Ignore the pouting and screaming of Karens.  Here in Pasadena, the city's Central Park near the Gold Line's Del Mar station would be a good choice.  Few people use it besides the homeless (and a few senior lawn bowling clubs) now, anyway, but the city kicks them out overnight.
 
2020-05-16 4:49:55 PM  

ccsears: Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing

Yeah, you're right, but it's also disingenuous to say that there haven't been any plans on the table discussed or other proposals for years and years.  Another way to look at this is simply that the judge is saying to pick the least bad proposals and see if they work NOW.

I'm one block away from social services and a train stop my backyard is against an onramp for the 405/10 interchange, I'm two blocks away from LA County mental health, the VA is about a mile away. and there's a drug house about 75 yards away that people inherited from their parents where theyve parked about 6 cars on its front lawn.  (One of those cars is a van they leave unlocked for people to shoot up in.)   3 weeks ago, I called the cops when someone tried to break into our house and wound up having to chase the guy off with a wooden dowel.

Sorry, I'm tired of this shiat.  My compassion for doing absolutely nothing is running out.  Do something, however imperfect or misguided, and then do another something for fark's sake.  Good on the judge, although I agree that, like usual, nothing much will come of it.


Exactly.  They just have to have a plan for moving these specific homeless people somewhere else less hazardous to their health.  They don't have to solve homelessness completely.  And it's something that 1) they have absolutely already thought about (which you point out) and 2) they have failed to do anything about for decades.  Instead, they do things like try to make it illegal to sleep in your car.  Making homelessness illegal doesn't stop people from being homeless.  It just turns the homeless into criminals for existing.  

Give them homes.  That's the solution.
 
2020-05-16 4:50:58 PM  

Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.


Go blow a hobo.
 
2020-05-16 4:52:04 PM  

Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.


What do you suggest be done?
 
2020-05-16 4:58:46 PM  

Paul Hackett: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

Go blow a hobo.


Sorry, I live in a heavily Republican city in a fairly conservative state. So there are few hobos around here.
 
2020-05-16 4:59:03 PM  

Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.


As opposed to Republicans who, just like AIDS patients, pretend that they don't exist.
 
2020-05-16 5:01:46 PM  
Build lots of Quonset huts, make sure they're reasonably safe, and the homeless population will drop like a rock. You don't have it in your budget? Do what Colorado did and use the revenue generated from legalized weed. If there's a non-emotional downside ("dignity of work" and bullshizz like that), I'm happy to hear it.
 
2020-05-16 5:04:42 PM  

The Lone Gunman: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

As opposed to Republicans who, just like AIDS patients, pretend that they don't exist.


Oh, I'll admit Democrats love homeless and HIV carriers more than Republicans. Democrats love them so much ta if they had Thor way, everyone would be homeless and infected with HIV.
 
2020-05-16 5:06:42 PM  
I bet you 50,000 of those 60,000 are willing and able to do some sort of work.  Government's proper role is to find a way to help these people to self sufficiency. Given our country's desperate need for infrastructure repair, I see a fairly simple solution.  Provide government funded apprenticeships in technical jobs that can be learned without a college diploma in return for an agreement to work in that field for a set number of years at a living wage once that apprenticeship is over.

It's insane to just write them off because they've fallen into a cycle that they want to escape but cannot escape without help.

Then, that 50k dealt with, provide the other 10k get mental/health care they need.
 
2020-05-16 5:08:31 PM  

austerity101: Super_pope: austerity101: Super_pope: I'm 100% for housing the homeless but this sounds insane.

Here's a week to figure out taking down thousands of people's dwellings and putting them all in housing

Then maybe the city should have done something sooner.  They've had literal decades.

Ah yes.  Why didn't they just do the smart thing and put an end to one of the most complex issues our society faces.

We have ways of making it better.  Giving homeless people housing works great, and it's less expensive than other solutions.  

The fact that it's hard doesn't excuse LA (and almost every other American city) from doing basically nothing about it for the last 50 years.


Yes, but you're forgetting the moralistic sadism people get to enjoy at their inferiors being abused.
 
2020-05-16 5:09:30 PM  
I would like to mention that during 2020 Census Day, April 1st, the 2020 Census offices were closed nationwide, which means the homeless count didn't happen on the same day that everyone in the country is supposed to be counted. That homeless/SBE/TNSL count (which is already a massive, complex operation) still hasn't been performed, and there's now no reasonable way to figure out where the hell half a million homeless people were on April 1st - in part because of situations like this.

We are ridiculously farked when it comes to relying on this year's census for, well, anything.
 
2020-05-16 5:15:06 PM  

Mrbogey: Paul Hackett: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

Go blow a hobo.

Sorry, I live in a heavily Republican city in a fairly conservative state. So there are few hobos around here.


See, that's kind of the issue, when you ship them all off to blue cities so other people have to solve your problems.
 
2020-05-16 5:15:27 PM  

cretinbob: Read the article
He's a very interesting judge


And the wiki article helpfully sums up the whole meaning and history of the rule of law in this country in one sentence:

Orange County School Board member Linda Davis later admitted at a board meeting on November 18, 2000 that Carter's legal ruling was correct: "We know the law is on their side, but our community members don't want it."
 
2020-05-16 5:16:52 PM  

Mrbogey: Sorry, I live in a heavily Republican city in a fairly conservative state.


Sounds like Macon, Georgia.
 
2020-05-16 5:17:50 PM  
Sounds like we need to start building those ghetto cities from DS9.
 
2020-05-16 5:19:12 PM  
Eh, no. He didn't order them to be sent somewhere else, he ordered Los Angeles to provide them with housing. So, good.
 
2020-05-16 5:19:59 PM  

Mrbogey: The Lone Gunman: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

As opposed to Republicans who, just like AIDS patients, pretend that they don't exist.

Oh, I'll admit Democrats love homeless and HIV carriers more than Republicans. Democrats love them so much ta if they had Thor way, everyone would be homeless and infected with HIV.


i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-16 5:22:09 PM  

The Lone Gunman: Build lots of Quonset huts, make sure they're reasonably safe, and the homeless population will drop like a rock. You don't have it in your budget? Do what Colorado did and use the revenue generated from legalized weed. If there's a non-emotional downside ("dignity of work" and bullshizz like that), I'm happy to hear it.


Where ?
The county has plenty of land, but one cannot just throw up some things without the supporting infrastructure, like water, sewer, power , bus stops, schools, markets, clinics ......

Now, if I had any pull, I would recommend eminent domain for quite a few mixed office/industrial buildings in places like the san fernando valley. Give the mega real state developer a fair price, and convert them into family and single flats. Put single parents and families and the dumped children who aged out of foster care, followed by single adults. I would keep the known addicts in a different place, where they had access to treatment, and the same with those with a purely mental health issue, and yet another with the last 2 combined.

A house or flat or even a room is but one step, albeit the most important one, in breaking the cycle.
But it is just one of many, many things that have to work alongside it.
It can be done, admittedly- its hard and there will never by a 100% success rate. But, if we have the determination- we can really do better than we have.
 
2020-05-16 5:22:33 PM  

Mrbogey: The Lone Gunman: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

As opposed to Republicans who, just like AIDS patients, pretend that they don't exist.

Oh, I'll admit Democrats love homeless and HIV carriers more than Republicans. Democrats love them so much ta if they had Thor way, everyone would be homeless and infected with HIV.


Then who would we fark? I'll admit, I love paying a homeless dude in cigarettes for a barebacking in an alley as much as the next guy, but if they all had HIV then I dunno.
 
2020-05-16 5:27:05 PM  
Order them into one of those mega-churches, maybe take some to Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas.  Time to form a CCC.  Mental illness hasn't been the same since Ronnie closed the hospitals (which were a mess anyway).  I hear there are a lot of empty houses in Detroit that need fixing up.
 
2020-05-16 5:27:24 PM  

Mrbogey: The Lone Gunman: Mrbogey: Democrats never accept responsibility for the homeless problem they create.

As opposed to Republicans who, just like AIDS patients, pretend that they don't exist.

Oh, I'll admit Democrats love homeless and HIV carriers more than Republicans. Democrats love them so much ta if they had Thor way, everyone would be homeless and infected with HIV.


That moment when you have an epic brain-shart in the middle of a bout of verbal diarrhea...

/Where will you be when your laxative kicks in?
 
2020-05-16 5:54:37 PM  

Emposter: I bet you 50,000 of those 60,000 are willing and able to do some sort of work.  Government's proper role is to find a way to help these people to self sufficiency. Given our country's desperate need for infrastructure repair, I see a fairly simple solution.  Provide government funded apprenticeships in technical jobs that can be learned without a college diploma in return for an agreement to work in that field for a set number of years at a living wage once that apprenticeship is over.

It's insane to just write them off because they've fallen into a cycle that they want to escape but cannot escape without help.

Then, that 50k dealt with, provide the other 10k get mental/health care they need.


They're willing probably.

But let's face the facts: the imminent present of Depression-level unemployment and homelessness notwithstanding, people don't end up long-term homeless (as opposed to short-term homeless who got dealt a bad hand, like a car breakdown leading to job loss) because they're able to hold down a job.

Basically nobody chooses to be unemployed and homeless because it's such a sweet gig. They end up that way usually because they have untreated mental conditions. And because of America's healthcare system is a crime against humanity, there's no hope for them to ever get the treatment that might make it possible for them to be functional, so instead they self-medicate with street drugs.

Healthcare. Is. The key.

From most anecdotes, 1 in 6 homeless aren't the ones who have mental problems. They're the small minority who don't.
 
2020-05-16 6:03:33 PM  

austerity101: Give them homes.  That's the solution.


I'd just like to address the inevitable objections, which will include:

1) They will just crap up their new homes, because they have issues.

Answer: My grandparents used to be landlords. I have been a tenant, both in rental properties and dorms. I lived next door to a man who couldn't take care of his home due to an injury and lack of funds to get help with it, and helped him find a cleaning company when he finally could afford it. And the cleaning company said that was nowhere near the worst they had seen. The ability to do horrible things to property is not exclusive to people who cannot afford property. All you need to do to have evidence of this is consume a single episode of Hoarders. Everyone has issues. It will not improve matters to throw everyone who can't take care of a home (for any reason! Including irresponsibility and spite!) onto the streets. Ostracism and desperation do not teach good life skills or cure health issues.

People who pay rent or, even more so, a mortgage, have a shocking amount of leeway for what they can do to their homes before someone intervenes - and that intervention will not always be an eviction. Someone with multiple evictions can still obtain housing. So can convicted sex offenders and white supremacists and drug addicts. Even if every single homeless person were doing it out of sheer bullheaded laziness, it does not help the rest of us to have thousands of lazy people sleeping and crapping on the streets, when we could afford to give them access to beds and toilets.

2) Why don't you put them in your home if they're so wonderful?

Answer: Most private residences are not set up to easily convert to multi-family homes. They are not regulated, they are not required to meet a standard (see #1 on horrible things people do to property), and their owners do not have access to the multiple resources that our homeless population needs. 'Housing first' does not mean 'housing only.'

Instead of requiring multiple individual households to buy food and furnishings, learn how to do mental healthcare, social work and job placement, and checking each one to make sure they're not abusing their new roomies or using them as slave labor - we can hire people who already know how to do that stuff and build more low-income housing... which we need anyway.

'Individual responsibility,' in this case, means we each chip in a little individually, and all of us together see the benefits of not having a permanent underclass on our streets. It doesn't mean some other random family does all the work so you don't have to pay a few dollars more in taxes. Individual responsibility has never meant whining someone else has to do it because, even though you would benefit from the solution, you don't wanna. People who can't afford the care and housing of an entire human being, but are willing to pay their share so that as a society we can help way more of them, are not shirking their responsibility. People who demand someone else do everything, while they do nothing, are.

We new return you to your homelessness thread already in progress.
 
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