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(NBC News)   The College Board has one job: Give AP Exams to high school students. With exams administered online this year, about 2% of students are experiencing "Significant Disruptions" AFTER they finish and are told their only option is a make-up exam   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, High school, High school students, Education in the United States, College, Placement exams, Paste, Secondary education, high school student  
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2275 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2020 at 7:43 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-14 6:41:19 PM  
First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.
 
2020-05-14 6:48:56 PM  

Pocket Ninja: First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-14 7:47:20 PM  
This is the best and most useful bit of education they will get in their entire HS career

LIFE IS UNFAIR AND THE INCOMPETENCE OF OTHERS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE TO fark YOU OVER

Now suck it up and take your make up exam
 
2020-05-14 7:48:26 PM  
My youngest just finished her AP Physics exam, no issues. Funny though, at the end they were like "Congratulations! You're part of the first class to ever do an AP exam remotely. Take a screen shot."
 
2020-05-14 7:48:49 PM  
FTA: "It's unfair that I have to retake the test again"

So a third time?
 
2020-05-14 7:49:34 PM  

Pocket Ninja: First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.


Preach!!!  Pearson and the College Board are a cancer on education.  They manipulate state legislatures by selling their scam "proficency" tests.  They were the corporate manipulators vehinf NCLB and The Race to the Top (bottom) and have pretty much stolen a sifnificant amount of any tax dollar that should have gone to your local school.  F them, their investors, their boards and the legislatures in their pockets.  Let them rot.
 
2020-05-14 7:49:48 PM  
Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.
 
2020-05-14 7:52:16 PM  
Cole Wagner, 17, said he was unable to submit his AP Physics Mechanics exam Monday after he tried twice to copy and paste his answers from a Google Doc to the exam. He said the responses reformatted when he pasted them into the exam, meaning they did not correspond with the questions. He's hoping to retake the test at a later date.

Unless you really need to preserve specific formatting like bold/italic or extended ASCII characters like curly quotes, always pass everything through a pure text editor like Notepad or vim before you move it from a document editing program to a web form....
 
2020-05-14 7:56:48 PM  
"It's unfair that I have to retake the test again that I have been studying so hard for, because of an issue on their part," one student said.

Cry me a river. And then when you're done, take the test again and get on with your life. Complaining about fairness is all well and good when you're talking about how people treat eachother, but it's a complete waste of everyone's farking time when it's about shiat that happens in life.
 
2020-05-14 7:58:11 PM  
The 2% number is the official College Board count. Anecdotally, from dozens of physics teachers including me, it's more like 10%.
 
2020-05-14 7:58:30 PM  

RyansPrivates: The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).


That doesn't work in the internet age. A hundred questions or a million questions, they'll all be on the internet in less than two hours.
 
2020-05-14 8:01:05 PM  

Pocket Ninja: First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.


The University of California system just said they're not requiring SAT/ACT scores from in state students through 2024. That's got to be making College Board scared. Other college systems are bound to follow their lead.
 
2020-05-14 8:03:19 PM  
Screw Pearson. Screw College Board. Screw AZ Merit and standardized testing.

/high school teacher
//so glad I'm not doing AP Lang this year
///hope they figure this shiat out before I teach Lang next year!
 
2020-05-14 8:03:39 PM  

emtwo: RyansPrivates: The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

That doesn't work in the internet age. A hundred questions or a million questions, they'll all be on the internet in less than two hours.


Yet this is exactly what certification exams do. You can still do a rolling randomization AP calc test #1 given a a certain hour  takes random questions from pool one. AP calc test #2 from a different pool and test scheduled a different time. This isn't rocket surgery.  The key is to have test windows that each have their own pool.
 
2020-05-14 8:04:27 PM  

Pocket Ninja: More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death.


I'm not as confident of that as you are. It is not just these tests that are pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless; it is the entire American education system. These tests are a distillation of the format of K-12 schooling.

Were we to come to the realization that it's all a waste and it needs to die, we would then be unable to justify our K-12 system, and then we'd have to actually put effort into restructuring the entire farking thing. That would be a lot of work. I'm betting we close our eyes and continue to pretend that the college prep tests are effective even though we know they aren't, so that we don't have to address any other problems
 
2020-05-14 8:04:45 PM  
"Given the wide variety of devices, browsers, and versions students are using, we anticipated that a small percentage of students would encounter technical difficulties, and we have a makeup window in June so students have another opportunity to test."

Wait, what? You foresaw that people would have technical difficulties but instead of working through them and resolving the issue you're just going to say they're the problem?

They should just have someone on staff with TeamViewer or similar, "If you have issues submitting, hit this button and someone will remote in and assist you to submit, if you do not do this in a timely manner, THEN you're the problem"
 
2020-05-14 8:06:39 PM  

RyansPrivates: Yet this is exactly what certification exams do. You can still do a rolling randomization AP calc test #1 given a a certain hour  takes random questions from pool one. AP calc test #2 from a different pool and test scheduled a different time. This isn't rocket surgery.  The key is to have test windows that each have their own pool.


My bad. You originally said from "a pool." The system makes a lot more sense when you add more than one pool.
 
2020-05-14 8:08:02 PM  

emtwo: RyansPrivates: Yet this is exactly what certification exams do. You can still do a rolling randomization AP calc test #1 given a a certain hour  takes random questions from pool one. AP calc test #2 from a different pool and test scheduled a different time. This isn't rocket surgery.  The key is to have test windows that each have their own pool.

My bad. You originally said from "a pool." The system makes a lot more sense when you add more than one pool.


Should have been clearer. I meant every test "instance" should be from pool

/Time for some more beer
//I'm buying
///If you live with me.
 
2020-05-14 8:08:40 PM  
CSB: In 1995 I was in grade 11. We had to fill in one of those bubble sheets where every letter of your first and last name was in its own box, etc.

Our teacher stressed to us repeatedly "Yes, there are two optional boxes. One is for French and one is for Braille. I know what you're going to ask and yes if you fill in both circles you will get a French Braille exam. Please do not do this unless you can actually take a French Braille exam because we don't get spare exams."

/the class clown in another school in our school division did it anyway
//he got a French Braille Grade 12 provincial exam
///He didn't do very well
 
2020-05-14 8:10:22 PM  

RyansPrivates: emtwo: RyansPrivates: Yet this is exactly what certification exams do. You can still do a rolling randomization AP calc test #1 given a a certain hour  takes random questions from pool one. AP calc test #2 from a different pool and test scheduled a different time. This isn't rocket surgery.  The key is to have test windows that each have their own pool.

My bad. You originally said from "a pool." The system makes a lot more sense when you add more than one pool.

Should have been clearer. I meant every test "instance" should be from pool

/Time for some more beer
//I'm buying
///If you live with me.


I mean, I also could have put more thought into it myself.

It's always nice when two people can admit mutual erring. I don't drink much beer anymore, but I'll toast you with a joint and an old fashioned.
 
2020-05-14 8:10:23 PM  

Pocket Ninja: a vice-like grip


Did you mean to say vice
Fark user imageView Full Size


or should it have been vise?
Fark user imageView Full Size


I can't tell in this scenario.
 
2020-05-14 8:10:55 PM  

emtwo: "It's unfair that I have to retake the test again that I have been studying so hard for, because of an issue on their part," one student said.

Cry me a river. And then when you're done, take the test again and get on with your life. Complaining about fairness is all well and good when you're talking about how people treat eachother, but it's a complete waste of everyone's farking time when it's about shiat that happens in life.


normally, I'd agree with your sentiment, but anything that gives validation to some shiatty gauleiter wielding a rubber stamp behind a desk i find unacceptable.

i totally agree with you that life isn't fair, some people are born with more privilege and clout than the rest of us. yet ifan organization can't get its shiat together, they don't have any right to foist their bullshiat upon the rest of us.
 
2020-05-14 8:13:08 PM  

rcain: This is the best and most useful bit of education they will get in their entire HS career

LIFE IS UNFAIR AND THE INCOMPETENCE OF OTHERS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE TO fark YOU OVER

Now suck it up and take your make up exam


I don't know how anybody who went to high school can be surprised by incompetence. It's pretty much a prerequisite to get a job there.
 
2020-05-14 8:16:20 PM  

emtwo: RyansPrivates: emtwo: RyansPrivates: Yet this is exactly what certification exams do. You can still do a rolling randomization AP calc test #1 given a a certain hour  takes random questions from pool one. AP calc test #2 from a different pool and test scheduled a different time. This isn't rocket surgery.  The key is to have test windows that each have their own pool.

My bad. You originally said from "a pool." The system makes a lot more sense when you add more than one pool.

Should have been clearer. I meant every test "instance" should be from pool

/Time for some more beer
//I'm buying
///If you live with me.

I mean, I also could have put more thought into it myself.

It's always nice when two people can admit mutual erring. I don't drink much beer anymore, but I'll toast you with a joint and an old fashioned.


Cool! Same!
 
2020-05-14 8:16:54 PM  

Pocket Ninja: First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.


Dude, you're exhausting sometimes. It's easy to never actually take a position on anything.
 
2020-05-14 8:17:21 PM  
Wow. Sounds like a lotta people here did bad on their SATs
 
2020-05-14 8:18:08 PM  

arcgear: i totally agree with you that life isn't fair, some people are born with more privilege and clout than the rest of us. yet ifan organization can't get its shiat together, they don't have any right to foist their bullshiat upon the rest of us.


The kid doesn't have to retake the test. He can decide that he doesn't need those test scores to get into college. But if he decides that he does in fact need those test scores to get into the college he wants, then he needs to retake the test because he doesn't have a score yet due to a technical error. That sucks, but they're not foisting anything. It's entirely up to him.

He's not complaining about the fact that the test is bullshiat and the whole system is ludicrous and that he shouldn't have had to take it in the first place. That would be an example of what I first said, which is complaining about how people treat eachother.

He's complaining about an unfortunate technical error that was not caused by any particular maliciousness or poor behavior. It's a thing that happened because nothing's perfect. It's a waste of time to complain about.
 
2020-05-14 8:20:38 PM  

rcain: This is the best and most useful bit of education they will get in their entire HS career

LIFE IS UNFAIR AND THE INCOMPETENCE OF OTHERS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE TO fark YOU OVER

Now suck it up and take your make up exam


This is how I know you never took an AP Exam.
 
2020-05-14 8:23:34 PM  

emtwo: He's complaining about an unfortunate technical error that was not caused by any particular maliciousness or poor behavior. It's a thing that happened because nothing's perfect. It's a waste of time to complain about.


Sorry, let me rephrase that. I would complain about it too, and there is potential value in complaining about it. You have to let somebody know that there is a problem before they can fix it.

But complaining that it's unfair is just childishness.
 
2020-05-14 8:24:01 PM  
If it was up to me... I'd set up colleges and universities where a student could attend at full price, but if they maintained a legitimate non-cheating average score that was... respectable... I would reduce their fees by 50%.

However, if they were really good at sports, I'd let them attend for free and give them an honorary degree and call it a bachelor's of the philosophy of underwater basket weaving.
 
2020-05-14 8:34:59 PM  
Did PN have a stroke?  Or get replaced?

That post made coherent sense.

Or did I just havea stroke?
 
2020-05-14 8:35:47 PM  
This just happened to my nephew. He is displeased. He's a junior, though, so he has time to retake/deal with any technical errors.
 
2020-05-14 8:39:30 PM  
AP Physics teacher here. We've dealt with a few cases of this so far. The College Board has several tech tips, such as what browsers work best, how to update your browser, which plugins and extensions seem to interfere with their submission process, and what picture attachments will work or will fail. They then, somewhat self-congratulating, say that "It's amazing that only 2% of students are having tech issues, given the wide array of platforms and devices out there!" As if the 2% are the students who either didn't follow the given advice or had some tech issues on their end, like wifi that cut out or something.

Yeah so about that.

All four of the students I have who've reported this issue were able to complete successfully the Practice submission process earlier in the week. Three of the four have had more than one AP Exam, and were able to submit one of their exams successfully, but had issues on another. I've also had a student who submitted the AP Physics 1 exam successfully today, after doing nothing different than he did for the AP Calculus BC exam a few days ago, which he was unable to submit.

What's happening is that students are getting through a question, and on the last step, "Click Submit to submit your response," their system is locking up and not respecting that a button was clicked. And this is happening to 2% of students. It's happening on every device, with every submission method, with students who've submitted other AP Exams successfully suddenly running into the issue on their second or third exam of the week. The error is clearly on the College Board's end of the tech.

And it's understandable, to a degree: they had two months to build a system where tens or even hundreds of thousands of students across various time zones would have to submit their exams within the same 5 minute window. They built it from scratch and did what beta testing they could in two months. What pisses me off isn't that there are errors; that's to be expected. What pisses me off is the gaslighting. Heavily implying, "This is your fault," followed by, "You now need to sign up for the makeup exam in June," followed by, "If the same thing happens then, well, you're out of luck, kid. No third chance," followed by anger and defensiveness at the very idea that students should be either 1. given a chance at a refund for their $94 per exam that The College Board themselves messed up, or 2. should either throw out unsubmitted questions or be forced to do what most teachers would be forced to do if they messed up a kid's final: grant a perfect score.

'Cause I'm sorry, the normal excuses aren't okay here. "Well, how can we give them a perfect score if we didn't get their exam responses?!" Because it's your system's fault you didn't get the exam responses. If I ever tried to tell a student, "Hey, kid, so you know that final exam? Yeah, I lost your paper, so I'm going to need you to retake it," administration would come down pretty damned hard on me. Oh, and the kid would be granted a perfect score, which, if I contested, would end up as a mark on my record.

Or at the very least, if a student successfully submitted one question but couldn't submit the other (all the exams were two questions long this year), you throw out the one with the tech difficulties, and you only grade the submitted question. You don't make the kid retake the exam. That's punishing a student for something that's your fault.

I give the College Board some credit here; it took guts for them even to run the AP Exams this year. The IB Exams were cancelled entirely; so at least AP students get a chance at getting college credit for the work they did this year. But the projection and gaslighting we're seeing right now is infuriating. They deserve to be sued for the full college course tuition cost of every student who ends up unable to qualify for their university's equivalent course credit for no other reason than the submission process was buggy. And that's whether or not the student takes the damned makeup.

Take responsibility, College Board. And while you're at it, fix the damned bug, if you can. We still have a week and a day left of this crap.

[/rant out]
 
2020-05-14 8:50:58 PM  
Things mess up and calling them out for the mistakes is fine, but how should they have handled it? I see several saying they should have waited but then this kids not being fresh on the material or the results of the tests not being available to the colleges when they apply for college. These tests were not meant to have been done remotely but in 2 to 3 months they managed to find a way to allow the students to at least try to take the tests and have a make up it if didn't work.

People do tend to hate standardized testing but how else is anyone to prove, at least in some measure, a way that they learned the knowledge that they had gained in any classes or any professional setting? When you get into the work place you have to show your productivity or you can loss your job. Is standardized testing perfect? Not at all, I sucked at testing but I understand there is a need to have way to filter out potential students when they can't accept everyone that applies to college. Why not then remove students that would do poorly anyways taking tests? Until education is well funded and free there will need to be a way to filter out those can't perform well in a college settings.
 
2020-05-14 9:10:50 PM  
wow 2 whole percent?
 
2020-05-14 9:13:23 PM  

skozlaw: Cole Wagner, 17, said he was unable to submit his AP Physics Mechanics exam Monday after he tried twice to copy and paste his answers from a Google Doc to the exam. He said the responses reformatted when he pasted them into the exam, meaning they did not correspond with the questions. He's hoping to retake the test at a later date.

Unless you really need to preserve specific formatting like bold/italic or extended ASCII characters like curly quotes, always pass everything through a pure text editor like Notepad or vim before you move it from a document editing program to a web form....


Especially if you know little Bobby Tables
 
2020-05-14 10:40:41 PM  
At a guess, the website can't handle the heavy load it's being subjected to. A 2% fark-up rate is wholly unacceptable.

Sounds like somebody didn't think to stress test the website.
 
2020-05-14 10:41:15 PM  
"blamed older browsers"

Is it just me or has in the past year or so seen the resurgence of a good number of major, multi-million hit websites simply not work in several common browser configurations? Yahoo.com , AP Tests, Time magazine , several .govs , Dow Jones; you know, the kind of websites that one would ordinarily expect seeing as *working*, since they get hundreds of millions of viewers a month and are responsible for thousands of people's livelihoods. But one day the website will load up a completely blank page on the desktop and both Firefox and chrome and on the phone in both Firefox and chrome. It will only work on an iPod running Safari, or only on an old WindowsXP machine running IE6, or will only work on a Windows 7 box running Edge or maybe even Microsoft Silverlight.

And to find this out I have to call them on the phone between 9 to 5 in an unknown time zone and talk to customer service, who will nod up and down and say of course it only runs in (some whacked-out configuration), why would you expect anything different? (we've been getting a lot of calls about that lately) And I've got to dig around to see if I even have a computer that runs in that configuration or can be made to run in that configuration. And usually it's for  something stupid  as downloading a PDF which is critical   work, or to fulfill a *legal requirement* that could just as easily have been posted anywhere else; that I wind up uploading to Google drive anyway and suddenly find out I'm the primary source for that document on the entire planet, because no one else can be bothered to navigate that Arachne website; or I wind up typing 10,000 characters into an old iPod since that's the only thing that will connect to that server.

And I wind up thinking how do these people even stay in business when I'm not there? How do you grow into a multi hundred billion dollar company and simply not have a functional website for weeks on end, until it can be fixed?
 
2020-05-14 11:05:20 PM  

RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.


careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.
 
2020-05-14 11:31:36 PM  

Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.


The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.
 
2020-05-14 11:45:33 PM  

RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.


I think they were giving them out. But internet connections in more rural areas are trickier to handle even with devices.
 
2020-05-14 11:48:21 PM  
The idea that the College Board is a billion-dollar institution says all it needs to say about the American Educational System...
 
2020-05-14 11:55:26 PM  

RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.


computer does not equal webcam.

mostly, I accused you of privilege because you suggested virtual proctoring and described it as a simple thing, a basic thing.  Is it a basic thing?  having running water in the US is a basic thing.  Owning a webcam is not.

that was all.

have had to deal with professors that have said similar things. Asked if the can just tell their students to purchase a $50-100 webcam as if it is nothing...at an institute that has food pantries because some students cannot afford food.

quite frankly, I'd be pleased with only a 2% fail rate given the situation, the volume and the timeline to work with.

creating an AP test is quite involved and not that easy to just generate a pool of questions in such a short time frame.  that coupled with normalization so that you can compare scores from Student A vs Student B who had different questions.
 
2020-05-15 12:05:09 AM  

Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.

computer does not equal webcam.

mostly, I accused you of privilege because you suggested virtual proctoring and described it as a simple thing, a basic thing.  Is it a basic thing?  having running water in the US is a basic thing.  Owning a webcam is not.

that was all.

have had to deal with professors that have said similar things. Asked if the can just tell their students to purchase a $50-100 webcam as if it is nothing...at an institute that has food pantries because some students cannot afford food.

quite frankly, I'd be pleased with only a 2% fail rate given the situation, the volume and the timeline to work with.

creating an AP test is quite involved and not that easy to just generate a pool of questions in such a short time frame.  that coupled with normalization so that you can compare scores from Student A vs Student B who had different questions.


What? That can't happen? If you insist enough it can magically happen, for reasons. Not like we are undergoing a pandemic where even throwing lots of money at a problem in a short time frame will fix it. Nope to some people's thinking it should just happen. Eyerolls.
 
2020-05-15 12:16:20 AM  

Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.

computer does not equal webcam.

mostly, I accused you of privilege because you suggested virtual proctoring and described it as a simple thing, a basic thing.  Is it a basic thing?  having running water in the US is a basic thing.  Owning a webcam is not.

that was all.

have had to deal with professors that have said similar things. Asked if the can just tell their students to purchase a $50-100 webcam as if it is nothing...at an institute that has food pantries because some students cannot afford food.

quite frankly, I'd be pleased with only a 2% fail rate given the situation, the volume and the timeline to work with.

creating an AP test is quite involved and not that easy to just generate a pool of questions in such a short time frame.  that coupled with normalization so that you can compare scores from Student A vs Student B who had different questions.


Our professors are merciless. Mostly because the old department head was an Israeli soldier and holocaust survivor who had been decorated for valor after his family was murdered in the holocaust. Dr. "When I was your age I was earning my PHD and killing arab soldiers who had pledged to complete the genocide that had claimed all my living relatives" wasn't big on complaints of deprivation. Right asshole, frighteningly smart.
 
BBH [TotalFark]
2020-05-15 12:24:54 AM  

Pocket Ninja: First of all, subby, the College Board does a lot more than just develop and administer AP exams. It's behind the SATs and just about every other standardized barrier test that exists. And here's the thing -- these tests were never really intended to be administered remotely, because remote administration would result in them being far less expensive to administer. Maintaining bloated administration sites and ridiculous security protocols is one of the ways they've been able to control this final aspect of most students' educations with a vice-like grip, and charge as much as they do. But here's the thing. More and more colleges are going to be dropping these tests as any sort of requirement for students who want to enroll, because those colleges are desperate, too, and removing standardized test stupidity as an entrance barrier is going to make a lot of people happy. And here's the other thing: Once that starts happening -- and I mean happening across the country, at schools large and small -- people are going to start seeing just how pointlessly stupid, uninformative, and absolutely meritless these tests are. And when that happens, the College Board will finally do what it should have done many, many, many years ago -- die. Die an unheralded, unmourned, and very welcome death. One of the most worthlessly counterproductive corporate entities ever created, and we should all be praying for extended misery to everyone involved in it for punishing education for as long as they have with their greed-motivated idiocy.

And when we're done celebrating these asshats' destruction, we can fire up the torches, gather the pitchforks, and salt the fields where Pearson stands next. Motherfarkers.


Pearson first, especially their edTPA that all perspective teachers must pass, in IL, only about 5% actually deals with teaching.
 
2020-05-15 12:38:14 AM  

Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.

computer does not equal webcam.

mostly, I accused you of privilege because you suggested virtual proctoring and described it as a simple thing, a basic thing.  Is it a basic thing?  having running water in the US is a basic thing.  Owning a webcam is not.

that was all.

have had to deal with professors that have said similar things. Asked if the can just tell their students to purchase a $50-100 webcam as if it is nothing...at an institute that has food pantries because some students cannot afford food.

quite frankly, I'd be pleased with only a 2% fail rate given the situation, the volume and the timeline to work with.

creating an AP test is quite involved and not that easy to just generate a pool of questions in such a short time frame.  that coupled with normalization so that you can compare scores from Student A vs Student B who had different questions.


I would suggest a couple of things:

Overwhelmingly, laptop and Chromebook for the last several generations have webcams.

Yes creating an AP exam isn't easy (I know a history teacher who has been involved in that process), BUT it isn't more complicated by magnitudes  over creating scenario based exams for certifications that are given on a regular basis. The proctor question is a matter of the planning that should have taken place.

The real problem here is that the CB didn't think that they should be preparing for this possibility: widespread need for virtual testing and putting processes and requirements in place. If not quarantine, then natural disasters or infrastructure failures.
 
2020-05-15 12:43:35 AM  

RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Hyjamon: RyansPrivates: Have a daughter who (thankfully) hasn't had this problem (yet). She still has 2 to go, so we will see.

The problem is that the CB decided to run all the tests simultaneosly to (ostensibly) prevent cheating.  Problem is, it just shows how cheap they are. Every test should be "random" from a pool of possible questions.  That prevents your test and my test from being the same  (usually).

If you did this, you could do like Amazon has done for a few AWS exams that are take at home: virtual proctoring. Basically have proctors watch the webcams of people taking the test (maybe 10 per proctor) to ensure they aren't cheating. Make sure nobody else comes into the room. It isn't foolproof, but it would be better than what they are doing right now which is basically overloading their servers because "everybody" has to take it at the same time.

careful, your privileged is showing.  what if I don't own a webcam?  or have reliable wifi? or a computer for that matter?

also, ProctorU and similar services are kind of operating at a max capacity...as in they don't have the resources to just proctor a few more tests.

oddly, I looked at their website and they don't seem to have an interest in hiring more remote proctors.

It is a nice service and they do as you suggest, one person can keep tabs on several test takers.

The whole taking an AP test virtually is predicated on having access to a computer, so not sure where you get off accusing me of "privelige".  The college board? Yes. And unfortunately they have always been this.  Obviously the better solution is giving kids laptops or chromebooks with LTE.  But once again not every school district has it. The real solution? The college board should provide them for their test.

computer does not equal webcam.

mostly, I accused you of privilege because you suggested virtual proctoring and described it as a simple thing, a basic thing.  Is it a basic thing?  having running water in the US is a basic thing.  Owning a webcam is not.

that was all.

have had to deal with professors that have said similar things. Asked if the can just tell their students to purchase a $50-100 webcam as if it is nothing...at an institute that has food pantries because some students cannot afford food.

quite frankly, I'd be pleased with only a 2% fail rate given the situation, the volume and the timeline to work with.

creating an AP test is quite involved and not that easy to just generate a pool of questions in such a short time frame.  that coupled with normalization so that you can compare scores from Student A vs Student B who had different questions.

I would suggest a couple of things:

Overwhelmingly, laptop and Chromebook for the last several generations have webcams.

Yes creating an AP exam isn't easy (I know a history teacher who has been involved in that process), BUT it isn't more complicated by magnitudes  over creating scenario based exams for certifications that are given on a regular basis. The proctor question is a matter of the planning that should have taken place.

The real problem here is that the CB didn't think that they should be preparing for this possibility: widespread need for virtual testing and putting processes and requirements in place. If not quarantine, then natural disasters or infrastructure failures.


Just a quick follow-up: the CB should be working with schools to ensure the equipment needed is available. Many districts already do, and ensuring the AP exams are available to all qualified students is actually what the CB should be doing with its money.
 
2020-05-15 12:54:28 AM  

RyansPrivates: I would suggest a couple of things:

Overwhelmingly, laptop and Chromebook for the last several generations have webcams.

Yes creating an AP exam isn't easy (I know a history teacher who has been involved in that process), BUT it isn't more complicated by magnitudes  over creating scenario based exams for certifications that are given on a regular basis. The proctor question is a matter of the planning that should have taken place.

The real problem here is that the CB didn't think that they should be preparing for this possibility: widespread need for virtual testing and putting processes and requirements in place. If not quarantine, then natural disasters or infrastructure failures.


planning for what?  you do realize every college institution and high school in the US switched from classroom to online?  the online proctoring services just did not have the volume to service all the requests.  Unless you expect CB to create their own online proctoring service from scratch in a months time?

natural disasters?  those are local.  infrastructure? again local.  this was a hurricane that hit every school district at the same time.

also, some may say these 2% have an advantage since they took the test already...they had an extra practice test.

this disruption of Covid was massive.  2% is a good result
 
2020-05-15 1:02:11 AM  

RyansPrivates: Just a quick follow-up: the CB should be working with schools to ensure the equipment needed is available. Many districts already do, and ensuring the AP exams are available to all qualified students is actually what the CB should be doing with its money.


from what I can tell, most school did.  it was just a supply issue.  Have you tried to buy a webcam lately?  or a doc cam?

if a school has 500 laptops to hand out but 1000 students need them, where do the other 500 come from?

everyone and their mother are buying up tech.  amazon is limiting purchases of such things to "two per customer'  logitech is out of cameras for the most part.

and if something like this hiccup sends students off the deep end, are they really ready for college then?  more stresses await.  This is a nameless corp to be mad at, what happens when they encounter an asshole professor backed by an asshole chair and department?
 
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